• netmail to/from points?

    From Michael Pierce@VERT/FLUXCAP to All on Friday, April 24, 2020 20:10:50
    this is not directed at sbbs but in general.. should a hub be holding mail that is destined for one of its nodes points??

    have noticed that if I send netmail from my point to a node in my network, I do not get a reply until my point polls my boss node??

    the node I sent it to, did the exact same thing from his point, and found that my responces are being held at our hub. we both have the same hub who is running sbbs, and there was talk in #synchronet on irc about routed netmail a couple of days ago.

    Thanks for any pointers

    Michael2
    telnet://mansion.dynv6.net:2323 - Mike's Mansion telnet://fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Fluxcapasitor BBS

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    Synchronet fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Portland, OR
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Michael Pierce on Saturday, April 25, 2020 03:01:07
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to All on Fri Apr 24 2020 08:10 pm

    this is not directed at sbbs but in general.. should a hub be holding mail that is destined for one of its nodes points??

    Yes.

    have noticed that if I send netmail from my point to a node in my network, I do not get a reply until my point polls my boss node??

    That's correct. Points are not supposed to be reachable.


    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #38:
    Artie Fufkin: I'm not asking, I'm telling with this. Kick my ass.
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    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Michael Pierce@VERT/FLUXCAP to Digital Man on Saturday, April 25, 2020 09:38:44
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 03:01 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to All on Fri Apr 24 2020 08:10 pm

    this is not directed at sbbs but in general.. should a hub be holding mail that is destined for one of its nodes points??

    Yes.

    have noticed that if I send netmail from my point to a node in my network, I do not get a reply until my point polls my boss node??

    That's correct. Points are not supposed to be reachable.

    I know points are not supposed to be reachable .. thats not the issue.. the boss node (in my case 1:340/201) is reachable, and my hub should be sending anymail destined for 1:340/201.??? to my node so it can be waiting for when my point polls for mail

    points should not have to poll anyone other than their boss node for mail, and thats what we have to do as of now.


    Michael2
    telnet://mansion.dynv6.net:2323 - Mike's Mansion telnet://fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Fluxcapasitor BBS

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    Synchronet fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Portland, OR
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Michael Pierce on Saturday, April 25, 2020 15:35:28
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to All on Fri Apr 24 2020 20:10:50


    this is not directed at sbbs but in general.. should a hub be holding
    mail that is destined for one of its nodes points??

    generally speaking, in FTNs, points have to poll their boss node for all their echomail and netmail...

    this is because most points do not run 24x7 and are generally not running unless the pointop (aka point operator aka super user) is sitting there and executes the point software to get the mail and send any waiting outbound...

    a point system setup is one step above QWK offline user's setup... this is because they

    1) have their mail waiting for them in the BOSS node's mailer.

    2) they do not have to log into the BOSS node's BBS for the mail.

    3) they have access to most all FTN capabilities whereas QWK
    generally does not.

    additionally, there might be a pointlist (nodelist of point information) but one is not required... even with a pointlist, the boss node may still not be able to deliver the mail for some reason... the main reason for a point list is so others can find the point to send netmail to... this generally involves at least routing the mail to the BOSS node for them to make available to the point...

    IF a point is running 24x7 and is able to handle continuous mail (CM in the nodelist/pointlist), then the point and the boss need to be in agreement that the boss will attempt to deliver the mail... this means the BOSS will need at least the domain and port number to connect to...

    remember that points are generally considered to be superusers of the BBS they are pointing off of...

    if you have more questions, please ask ;)


    )\/(ark

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    Synchronet The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Michael Pierce on Saturday, April 25, 2020 12:47:46
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 09:38 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 03:01 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to All on Fri Apr 24 2020 08:10 pm

    this is not directed at sbbs but in general.. should a hub be holding mail that is destined for one of its nodes points??

    Yes.

    have noticed that if I send netmail from my point to a node in my network, I do not get a reply until my point polls my boss node??

    That's correct. Points are not supposed to be reachable.

    I know points are not supposed to be reachable .. thats not the issue.. the boss node (in my case 1:340/201) is reachable, and my hub should be sending anymail destined for 1:340/201.??? to my node so it can be waiting for when my point polls for mail

    points should not have to poll anyone other than their boss node for mail, and thats what we have to do as of now.

    Oh, I misunderstood. Yes, a boss should forward mail destined for points (off a different boss). To debug the issue, I'd need to know more details, like the software (tosser and mailer) involved, relevant log entries, and maybe configuration snippets.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #34:
    The back-up synchro.net nameserver and CVS repository is hosted by Deuce. Norco, CA WX: 88.7F, 35.0% humidity, 5 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Michael Pierce on Saturday, April 25, 2020 15:45:45
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 09:38:44


    I know points are not supposed to be reachable .. thats not the
    issue.. the boss node (in my case 1:340/201) is reachable, and my
    hub should be sending anymail destined for 1:340/201.??? to my
    node so it can be waiting for when my point polls for mail

    ahhhh... that wasn't clear in the original posting... probably from the mixing of terms? i dunno... HUB has a special/specific meaning in FTN... there are few HUBs these days... what many people call "their hub" is really just (one of) their links...

    points should not have to poll anyone other than their boss node
    for mail, and thats what we have to do as of now.

    it is possible that your node's link has a bug in their mail tosser... we just found one the other day in sbbsecho... it involved netmail arriving with the CRAsh bit set... CRAsh mail is not routed so sbbsecho, when it saw that bit was set, packed the netmails direct to the point... that bug has been fixes now and netmail arriving with the CRAsh bit set have it stripped so that sbbsecho can properly route the netmail further...

    it is also possible that you node's link has something missing in their routing so that while node netmail is properly routed, the points of that node may not be...

    with all that said, what software is your link running? if it is sbbs, then they should update at least their sbbsecho to the latest one that has the above bug fixed...


    )\/(ark

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    Synchronet The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Michael Pierce@VERT/FLUXCAP to Digital Man on Saturday, April 25, 2020 20:27:29
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 12:47 pm

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 09:38 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 03:01 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to All on Fri Apr 24 2020 08:10 pm


    Oh, I misunderstood. Yes, a boss should forward mail destined for points (off a different boss). To debug the issue, I'd need to know more details, like the software (tosser and mailer) involved, relevant log entries, and maybe configuration snippets.

    digital man
    software on the point systems
    on my system 201.1 I am using sbbs(pi) which tosses to my main node that runs mystic a45(pi) - then off to 1:340/400 who also runs sbbs v317 (2019)

    what got me looking into this, is Rick Smith (1:340/202) was sending me netmail via his point 202.1 his main node is running mystic.. don't remember if its a45 or a46 his point has been a couple versions , the first was sbbs, now its husky

    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our points in order to receive responses.

    I know on both 201 & 202 we both have routing enabled in mystic

    sbbsecho.log
    2020-04-21 05:57:32 Created NetMail (1.msg) from Michael Pierce (1:340/201.1) to rick.smith (1:340/201.1), attr: 0181, subject: testing point-to-point2

    2020-04-21 05:57:32 SBBSecho (PID 2411) exiting with error level 0, NetMail(0 imported, 1 exported, 0 packed)


    Michael2
    telnet://mansion.dynv6.net:2323 - Mike's Mansion telnet://fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Fluxcapasitor BBS

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    Synchronet fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Portland, OR
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Michael Pierce on Saturday, April 25, 2020 21:46:13
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 08:27 pm

    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our points in order to receive responses.

    But that is normal and expected. Points always (or at least, normally) *have* to poll their uplink to receive responses.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #39:
    Airport Security Officer: Do you have any artificial plates or limbs?
    Norco, CA WX: 75.5F, 44.0% humidity, 0 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Digital Man on Sunday, April 26, 2020 17:24:00
    On 04-25-20 12:47, Digital Man wrote to Michael Pierce <=-

    Oh, I misunderstood. Yes, a boss should forward mail destined for
    points (off a different boss). To debug the issue, I'd need to know
    more details, like the software (tosser and mailer) involved, relevant
    log entries, and maybe configuration snippets.

    And the problem could be outside his control, since something between his boss and upstream could be involved. Yes, I agree, the mail should arrive at the boss, and should be waiting for the point to poll to pick it up.

    Back in the day, I used to have a few points, and it all worked smoothly. I do have a point on Fidonet (it's my other BBS), but I haven't used it for netmail yet.


    ... Dachshunds are really small crocodiles with fur.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Michael Pierce on Sunday, April 26, 2020 02:15:16
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 09:46 pm

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 08:27 pm

    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our points in order to receive responses.

    But that is normal and expected. Points always (or at least, normally) *have* to poll their uplink to receive responses.

    So is 1:340/400 not the boss node for both points? If it's not, then it sounds like it's not doing its job of forwarding mail to the other boss. But both points will have to poll their boss to get their mail. That part is normal.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #1:
    Nigel Tufnel: These go to eleven.
    Norco, CA WX: 70.0F, 54.0% humidity, 0 mph SW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Michael Pierce on Sunday, April 26, 2020 09:32:10
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 20:27:29


    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our
    points in order to receive responses.

    this is due to a known and recently fixed defect in sbbsecho... 1:340/400 needs to update but it won't affect already packed netmails sitting in the BSO...

    there's another defect being tracked down, as we speak... it affects the from address of packed netmails... as soon as the defect is identified and fixed, then everyone running sbbsecho will need to update to that fixed version, as well...


    )\/(ark

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    Synchronet The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Digital Man on Sunday, April 26, 2020 09:41:13
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 21:46:13


    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our points in order to receive responses.

    But that is normal and expected. Points always (or at least, normally) *have* to poll their uplink to receive responses.

    the problem is that 202.1 has to poll there, too... this is likely due to the crash bit and non-routing of crash messages... i say that based on the recent discovery and repair of that defect that i was seeing here... we've at least one more defect to track down and fix... i've sent you private email about it earlier this morning... i suspect you will have found it by the time you read this ;)


    )\/(ark

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    Synchronet The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Michael Pierce@VERT/FLUXCAP to Digital Man on Sunday, April 26, 2020 07:06:18
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sun Apr 26 2020 02:15 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 09:46 pm

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 08:27 pm

    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our points in order to receive responses.

    But that is normal and expected. Points always (or at least, normally) *have* to poll their uplink to receive responses.

    So is 1:340/400 not the boss node for both points? If it's not, then it sounds like it's not doing its job of forwarding mail to the other boss. But both points will have to poll their boss to get their mail. That part is normal.

    right 1:340/400 is the hub of both 1:340/201 & 202 - and we do poll our respected boss nodes ie 201.1 polls 201 and 202.1 polls 202 but the mail is at our hub (is also NC if I am not mistaken)

    Michael2




    Michael2
    telnet://mansion.dynv6.net:2323 - Mike's Mansion telnet://fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Fluxcapasitor BBS

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    Synchronet fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Portland, OR
  • From Michael Pierce@VERT/FLUXCAP to Rampage on Sunday, April 26, 2020 09:33:21
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Rampage to Michael Pierce on Sun Apr 26 2020 09:32 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 20:27:29


    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our points in order to receive responses.

    this is due to a known and recently fixed defect in sbbsecho... 1:340/400 needs to update but it won't affect already packed netmails sitting in the BSO...

    there's another defect being tracked down, as we speak... it affects the from address of packed netmails... as soon as the defect is identified and fixed, then everyone running sbbsecho will need to update to that fixed version, as well...

    Thanks for the info, least now we know and I can give 1:340/400 a nudge to update :-)




    Michael2
    telnet://mansion.dynv6.net:2323 - Mike's Mansion telnet://fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Fluxcapasitor BBS

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    Synchronet fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Portland, OR
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Rampage on Sunday, April 26, 2020 14:03:01
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Rampage to Digital Man on Sun Apr 26 2020 09:41 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 21:46:13


    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our points in order to receive responses.

    But that is normal and expected. Points always (or at least, normally) *have* to poll their uplink to receive responses.

    the problem is that 202.1 has to poll there, too... this is likely due to the crash bit and non-routing of crash messages... i say that based on the recent discovery and repair of that defect that i was seeing here... we've at least one more defect to track down and fix... i've sent you private email about it earlier this morning... i suspect you will have found it by the time you read this ;)

    Thanks for the head's up. I might've overlooked the email otherwise.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #89:
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    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Michael Pierce on Sunday, April 26, 2020 14:05:14
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sun Apr 26 2020 07:06 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sun Apr 26 2020 02:15 am

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sat Apr 25 2020 09:46 pm

    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Michael Pierce to Digital Man on Sat Apr 25 2020 08:27 pm

    and both of us have found that we have to poll 1:340/400 with our points in order to receive responses.

    But that is normal and expected. Points always (or at least, normally) *have* to poll their uplink to receive responses.

    So is 1:340/400 not the boss node for both points? If it's not, then it sounds like it's not doing its job of forwarding mail to the other boss. But both points will have to poll their boss to get their mail. That part is normal.

    right 1:340/400 is the hub of both 1:340/201 & 202 - and we do poll our respected boss nodes ie 201.1 polls 201 and 202.1 polls 202 but the mail is at our hub (is also NC if I am not mistaken)

    And 340/400 is running SBBS/SBBSecho if I read your message right. If the problem is that crash bit, perhaps try sending withOUT including the crash attribute or ask 340/400 to upgrade to the latest SBBSecho available.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #52:
    Answers to Frequently Asked Questions: http://wiki.synchro.net/faq:index
    Norco, CA WX: 87.2F, 35.0% humidity, 9 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Michael Pierce@VERT/FLUXCAP to Digital Man on Sunday, April 26, 2020 15:38:19
    Re: netmail to/from points?
    By: Digital Man to Michael Pierce on Sun Apr 26 2020 02:05 pm

    And 340/400 is running SBBS/SBBSecho if I read your message right. If the problem is that crash bit, perhaps try sending withOUT including the crash attribute or ask 340/400 to upgrade to the latest SBBSecho available.

    yes 340/400 is running sbbsecho

    I did have crash bit turned on, I turned it off in scfg network and in sbbsecho for my boss .. will test some more :-)_


    Michael2
    telnet://mansion.dynv6.net:2323 - Mike's Mansion telnet://fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Fluxcapasitor BBS

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    Synchronet fluxcap.synchro.net:5023 - Portland, OR