• L

    From Scott Rudy@VERT to All on Saturday, January 18, 2020 15:29:32
    I read something that starting in 2020 Intel will not support something because the bigger hard drives do not support the way older versions of pc bios used. will a person still be able to run 16 bit door prograns on software programs like synchronet or will new computers not even be capable of that even when running it on virtual box, etc. using a 32 bit operating system.

    thank you,

    scott

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  • From Nelgin@VERT/EOTLBBS to Scott Rudy on Saturday, January 18, 2020 21:43:56
    Scott wrote:
    I read something that starting in 2020 Intel will not support something because the bigger hard drives do not support the way older versions of pc bios used. will a person still be able to run 16 bit door prograns on software programs like synchronet or will new computers not even be capable of that even when running it on virtual box, etc. using a 32 bit operating system.

    thank you,


    I haven't a clue what you're talking about. Define "something".

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Scott Rudy on Saturday, January 18, 2020 22:19:29
    Re: L
    By: Scott Rudy to All on Sat Jan 18 2020 03:29 pm

    I read something that starting in 2020 Intel will not support something because the bigger hard drives do not support the way older versions of pc bios used. will a person still be able to run 16 bit door prograns on software programs like synchronet or will new computers not even be capable of that even when running it on virtual box, etc. using a 32 bit operating system.

    What is the "something"?

    Bigger hard drives above a certain point (2 or 3 TB, I think, I don't remember the exact number) require a UEFI/GPT partitioning scheme if you want to use the whole drive with one partition. Previously, hard drives were using a MBR-based partition scheme - Perhaps that's the "something" you're thinking of?

    I could see that possibly making it difficutl to install an older OS that expects a MBR partition scheme natively on the system, but I'd think you should still be able to install a 32-bit OS in a virtual machine and run 16-bit DOS doors that way.

    Nightfox

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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Scott Rudy on Sunday, January 19, 2020 07:26:59
    Re: L
    By: Scott Rudy to All on Sat Jan 18 2020 15:29:32


    I read something that starting in 2020 Intel will not support
    something because the bigger hard drives do not support the way
    older versions of pc bios used.

    sounds like you're talking about the removal of "Legacy BIOS support from UEFI" which started back in 2017... i used the following search based on your text...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=intel+2020+not+supporting

    will a person still be able to run 16 bit door prograns on
    software programs like synchronet or will new computers not
    even be capable of that even when running it on virtual box,
    etc. using a 32 bit operating system.

    if the OSes provide a way for those legacy systems to run, then doors and older programs won't even know the difference... the host system is the one that matters for this... VMs and the like will still do what they do since they don't even use the hardware BIOS at all... a true virtual machine emulates the entire system, CPU, BIOS, GPU, etc...


    )\/(ark

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Rampage on Sunday, January 19, 2020 12:33:04
    Re: L
    By: Rampage to Scott Rudy on Sun Jan 19 2020 07:26 am

    since they don't even use the hardware BIOS at all... a true virtual machine emulates the entire system, CPU, BIOS, GPU, etc...

    Most VM software I've seen these days can provide an Intel CPU pass-through to the actual CPU so that it doesn't have to emulate the CPU, which provides a speed boost (compared to emulating a CPU). Most Intel processors these days have virtualization support (which you can toggle on/off in the BIOS) to support that.

    For Android software development, I've also seen Android virtual machines that can be configured to use an Intel CPU so that the Android VM can run faster on Intel PCs, rather than emulating an ARM processor.

    Nightfox

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Monday, January 20, 2020 15:55:58
    Re: L
    By: Nightfox to Rampage on Sun Jan 19 2020 12:33 pm

    For Android software development, I've also seen Android virtual machines that can be configured to use an Intel CPU so that the Android VM can run faster on Intel PCs, rather than emulating an ARM processor.

    Android supports x86 processors natively, so I'm not clear why you need a VM (to emulate an ARM processor). Maybe just older versions of Android?

    digital man

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Monday, January 20, 2020 16:46:44
    Re: L
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Jan 20 2020 03:55 pm

    For Android software development, I've also seen Android virtual
    machines that can be configured to use an Intel CPU so that the
    Android VM can run faster on Intel PCs, rather than emulating an ARM
    processor.

    Android supports x86 processors natively, so I'm not clear why you need a VM (to emulate an ARM processor). Maybe just older versions of Android?

    There are situations where you may need to include native-compiled libraries with an Android app (mainly for speed), using the Android NDK:
    https://developer.android.com/ndk
    Native-built libraries for Android can be developed using C++, and since they're native-compiled, specific versions would need to be built separately for ARM and for Intel (and for whatever other processor may be included in an Android device). For testing, it can sometimes be useful to use an Android VM to emulate an Android device with an ARM processor.

    To my knowledge, most Android devices on the market use an ARM processor. I remember Intel trying to get into mobile devices several years ago, but it seems they didn't have much success with it.

    Nightfox

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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Nightfox on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:31:00
    On 01-18-20 22:19, Nightfox wrote to Scott Rudy <=-

    Bigger hard drives above a certain point (2 or 3 TB, I think, I don't remember the exact number) require a UEFI/GPT partitioning scheme if
    you want to use the whole drive with one partition. Previously, hard drives were using a MBR-based partition scheme - Perhaps that's the "something" you're thinking of?

    I have a suspicion you're right. :)

    I could see that possibly making it difficutl to install an older OS
    that expects a MBR partition scheme natively on the system, but I'd
    think you should still be able to install a 32-bit OS in a virtual
    machine and run 16-bit DOS doors that way.

    Agree. I don't see any reason you couldn't use a VM to run a 16 bit OS like DOS. The guest OS won't see the UEFI/GPT partitioning. It will only see the MBR partitioning on its virtual disks.


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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT to TONY LANGDON on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 23:06:00
    Tony,

    ... Wedding rings: The world's smallest handcuffs.

    Honeymoon: The period between "I DO" and "YOU'D BETTER". :P

    Daryl


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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Daryl Stout on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 12:27:00
    On 01-21-20 23:06, Daryl Stout wrote to TONY LANGDON <=-

    Tony,

    ... Wedding rings: The world's smallest handcuffs.

    Honeymoon: The period between "I DO" and "YOU'D BETTER". :P


    Hahaha! :D


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  • From The Millionaire@VERT to Tony Langdon on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 06:17:08
    Hahaha! :D

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    I like that one too. :-P

    $ The Millionaire $

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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT to TONY LANGDON on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 21:03:00
    Tony,

    ... Wedding rings: The world's smallest handcuffs.

    Honeymoon: The period between "I DO" and "YOU'D BETTER". :P

    Hahaha! :D

    It's also where the groom was so nervous, that he asked the preacher
    "Is it kisstomary to cuss the bride??".

    The preacher said "Not yet...but, soon". <G>

    Daryl


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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Daryl Stout on Thursday, February 13, 2020 20:03:00
    On 02-12-20 21:03, Daryl Stout wrote to TONY LANGDON <=-

    Tony,

    ... Wedding rings: The world's smallest handcuffs.

    Honeymoon: The period between "I DO" and "YOU'D BETTER". :P

    Hahaha! :D

    It's also where the groom was so nervous, that he asked the preacher
    "Is it kisstomary to cuss the bride??".

    The preacher said "Not yet...but, soon". <G>

    As you do. :D


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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT to TONY LANGDON on Thursday, February 13, 2020 13:24:00
    Tony,

    ... Wedding rings: The world's smallest handcuffs.

    Honeymoon: The period between "I DO" and "YOU'D BETTER". :P

    Hahaha! :D

    It's also where the groom was so nervous, that he asked the preacher "Is it kisstomary to cuss the bride??".

    The preacher said "Not yet...but, soon". <G>

    As you do. :D

    My deal was that I put her engagement ring (which we got at a local
    store that was going out of business, for $25), her wedding ring, and my wedding ring, all on her finger. I'm just about to blurt out "WHERE THE
    HELL IS THE OTHER ONE??!". I had never been married before, and didn't
    know how this worked.

    The Good Lord is so wise. The preacher said "Um.....you're not
    supposed to put all the rings on her finger!!"...to which I yelled out
    "OOPS!!" -- I was so embarrassed. I nearly said "With this ring, I Thee Bed"...I really would've had my butt in the sling if I had done that. :P

    At our bridal shower, she wanted both the men and women there, which
    was fine with me. The best part was that they were giving the new couple
    to be, advice...but no one would sign their names. Here are the top 3,
    from last to first:

    3. Janice shouldn't be the only one with dishpan hands.

    Now, after working for Burger King for 5 years, I was no stranger to
    doing dishes, taking out trash, cleaning toilets, etc. I've known men
    who've said "housecleaning is a woman's job".

    2. Daryl, pray for The Second Coming (of Jesus Christ). Jan...pray that
    it is soon. <G>

    1. Violets are purple. Roses are red. When Daryl is blue...Jan, head for
    the bed!! <BG>

    The preacher's wife, a natural blonde, and myself, were as red as
    tomatoes. Everyone was laughing so hard that they didn't hear me say
    "Oh, $h!+"!! Janice said "He's turning a much brighter shade of pink
    than he normally does"!! I was never so embarrassed in all my life!! :P

    Daryl


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  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Daryl Stout on Saturday, February 15, 2020 11:35:00
    On 02-13-20 13:24, Daryl Stout wrote to TONY LANGDON <=-

    Now, after working for Burger King for 5 years, I was no stranger to doing dishes, taking out trash, cleaning toilets, etc. I've known men who've said "housecleaning is a woman's job".

    True, I used to do work as a kitchenhand many years ago, so no stranger to washing dishes either.

    2. Daryl, pray for The Second Coming (of Jesus Christ). Jan...pray that
    it is soon. <G>

    Oh dear.

    1. Violets are purple. Roses are red. When Daryl is blue...Jan, head
    for the bed!! <BG>

    ROFL!!! :D


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  • From Don Lowery@VERT to Daryl Stout on Friday, February 14, 2020 20:26:16
    wedding ring, all on her finger. I'm just about to blurt out "WHERE THE HELL IS THE OTHER ONE??!". I had never been married before, and didn't know how this worked.

    We ended up going to her parents house to where I could ask her father to
    marry her. Was so nervous that he looked me in the eye & asked me if I wanted just the hand or all of her. In my mind...thought he said no. I blush easy & was looking for a way to go hide...while everyone was laughing...including
    her. Looking at me...she said...ya gonna answer him? Are you interested in my hand or the rest of me? Finally...said all of her when my mind figured out
    what was happening.

    The preacher's wife, a natural blonde, and myself, were as red as tomatoes. Everyone was laughing so hard that they didn't hear me say
    "Oh, $h!+"!! Janice said "He's turning a much brighter shade of pink
    than he normally does"!! I was never so embarrassed in all my life!! :P

    Want embarrassment...we lived 2 hours away & were staying with her
    grandmother. She lived in a big house...so they had the room a few weeks
    after we got married. Going to bed after a long day...woke up the next
    morning & went in with everyone sitting in the kitchen. Her grandmother asked me if I'd slept good...so said yes I did. Not missing a beat...she said great...didn't hear a thing. Would've made the perfect extra on Fantastic Voyage when they all got shrunk. Couldn't find anywhere to hide from them laughing up a storm.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/SpookNet/FidoNet/MicroNet.

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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT to DON LOWERY on Saturday, February 15, 2020 04:42:00
    Don,

    We ended up going to her parents house to where I could ask her father to DL>marry her. Was so nervous that he looked me in the eye & asked me if I wante DL>just the hand or all of her. In my mind...thought he said no. I blush easy & DL>was looking for a way to go hide...while everyone was laughing...including DL>her. Looking at me...she said...ya gonna answer him? Are you interested in m DL>hand or the rest of me? Finally...said all of her when my mind figured out DL>what was happening.

    LOL. It's like being so nervous, you join the family for dinner, and
    drop the ring into the spaghetti. :P

    Want embarrassment...we lived 2 hours away & were staying with her DL>grandmother. She lived in a big house...so they had the room a few weeks DL>after we got married. Going to bed after a long day...woke up the next DL>morning & went in with everyone sitting in the kitchen. Her grandmother aske DL>me if I'd slept good...so said yes I did. Not missing a beat...she said DL>great...didn't hear a thing. Would've made the perfect extra on Fantastic DL>Voyage when they all got shrunk. Couldn't find anywhere to hide from them DL>laughing up a storm.

    LOL. There's so little to laugh at nowadays, and if you can't laugh at yourself, you've got problems.

    My biggest blunder in another hobby, amateur radio, is that "I need
    blind hams to direct me out of hospitals and parking decks"...which has literally happened!! <BG>

    With the hamfests, it was prior to cataract surgery. With the hospital parking decks, they weren't well marked on how to navigate, and it was
    like a mouse going through a maze.

    Daryl


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  • From Don Lowery@VERT to Daryl Stout on Monday, February 17, 2020 21:03:59
    We ended up going to her parents house to where I could ask her father DL>marry her. Was so nervous that he looked me in the eye & asked me if I DL>just the hand or all of her. In my mind...thought he said no. I blush e
    LOL. It's like being so nervous, you join the family for dinner, and drop the ring into the spaghetti. :P

    With these folks it would be more like Rocky Mountain Oysters. ;) That would have a meaning on more than 1 level.

    Want embarrassment...we lived 2 hours away & were staying with her DL>grandmother. She lived in a big house...so they had the room a few week DL>after we got married. Going to bed after a long day...woke up the next DL>morning & went in with everyone sitting in the kitchen. Her grandmother
    LOL. There's so little to laugh at nowadays, and if you can't laugh at yourself, you've got problems.

    The only thing I didn't like was I was not expecting the remark & everyone sitting around waiting on me. Otherwise...my response would've been quite different & more adult.

    My biggest blunder in another hobby, amateur radio, is that "I need blind hams to direct me out of hospitals and parking decks"...which has literally happened!! <BG>

    Was at a field day several years ago. They were using solar to run the rigs & couldn't figure out why no power was getting to the rigs. Started walking the field where the lines were & someone forgot to plug in a connector between
    the cells/rig table. Having been in commercial radio for around 20
    years...was a very firm believer in Murphy's Law...no matter where I was at.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT to DON LOWERY on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 00:28:00
    Don,

    With these folks it would be more like Rocky Mountain Oysters. ;) That would DL>have a meaning on more than 1 level.

    Yeah...the matador doesn't always win. :P

    The only thing I didn't like was I was not expecting the remark & everyone DL>sitting around waiting on me. Otherwise...my response would've been quite DL>different & more adult.

    Shortly after my wife and I got married, we had flown down to her
    parents place in Apopka, just outside of Orlando. I was singing with the
    song "The Vows Go Unbroken" by Kenny Rogers...which I had at my wedding.
    When I got to the line "Though, I've been tempted....no, I have never strayed"...one of her cousins blurts out "OH!! HE'S BEEN TEMPTED!!". I
    nearly said "Oh, $h!+". That would've been just as bad as at the
    wedding, if I had said "With this ring, I thee bed". Talk about being an
    eager beaver. <G>

    Was at a field day several years ago. They were using solar to run the rigs DL>couldn't figure out why no power was getting to the rigs. Started walking th DL>field where the lines were & someone forgot to plug in a connector between DL>the cells/rig table. Having been in commercial radio for around 20 DL>years...was a very firm believer in Murphy's Law...no matter where I was at.

    Or they plug the power strip into itself, and can't figure out why it
    won't work.

    Daryl, WX4QZ


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  • From Don Lowery@VERT to Daryl Stout on Wednesday, February 19, 2020 22:41:07
    Shortly after my wife and I got married, we had flown down to her parents place in Apopka, just outside of Orlando. I was singing with the song "The Vows Go Unbroken" by Kenny Rogers...which I had at my wedding. When I got to the line "Though, I've been tempted....no, I have never strayed"...one of her cousins blurts out "OH!! HE'S BEEN TEMPTED!!". I nearly said "Oh, $h!+". That would've been just as bad as at the
    wedding, if I had said "With this ring, I thee bed". Talk about being an eager beaver. <G>

    Tried to answer this before heading to work earlier...but ran out of time.
    Glad you didn't because down there...you may have been used for bait.

    Or they plug the power strip into itself, and can't figure out why it won't work.

    Favorite show is The IT Crowd. That's a running joke in the whole series.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT to DON LOWERY on Thursday, February 20, 2020 19:54:00
    Don,

    Tried to answer this before heading to work earlier...but ran out of time. DL>Glad you didn't because down there...you may have been used for bait.

    I think they knew I was basically harmless.

    Besides, before I got married, I filled out, and presented them with
    the "Application To Date My Daughter". <G>

    Favorite show is The IT Crowd. That's a running joke in the whole series.

    There is another show, with the logo/initials TBD or something like
    that. It shows all these animal bloopers and human fails. At one local restaurant where I eat on occasion, they have that on the monitors at
    times. But, with having a satellite dish, if it's cloudy or stormy, the
    signal is lousy.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

    Are you the one in charge of FSXNet, or it someone else?? I forgot
    where the message was on that.

    Daryl


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  • From Don Lowery@VERT to Daryl Stout on Thursday, February 20, 2020 23:18:29
    Besides, before I got married, I filled out, and presented them with
    the "Application To Date My Daughter". <G>

    Used to work as a teacher's aide for special ed students. At an interview...they asked me an off-the-wall question about camping & what would be the most important thing to take. If I remember right...I said more gasoline. That way...would be able to get the fire going & be able to keep it going without much effort. Asked me why would you do that. Said I love
    camping & want to enjoy myself without much effort at all. Got the job...but with the others I worked with...one or was the worst job I ever had because
    of the undermining I dealt with constantly.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/Micro
    Are you the one in charge of FSXNet, or it someone else?? I forgot
    where the message was on that.

    Avon in New Zealand runs it. We get tons of new boards all the time. As a matter of fact...I also get my FidoNet feed from him since he's the Zone 3
    hub for FidoNet.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

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  • From Stephen Walsh@VERT to Don Lowery on Saturday, February 22, 2020 01:03:59
    Hello Don!

    20 Feb 20 23:18, you wrote to Daryl Stout:

    As a matter of fact...I also get my FidoNet feed from him since he's
    the Zone 3 hub for FidoNet.

    His *one* of the Zone3 hubs. We have four systems that act as hubs.



    Stephen


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  • From Don Lowery@VERT to Stephen Walsh on Saturday, February 22, 2020 08:54:18
    As a matter of fact...I also get my FidoNet feed from him since he's the Zone 3 hub for FidoNet.
    His *one* of the Zone3 hubs. We have four systems that act as hubs.

    Knew it had to be more than one. Looked on a globe the other day & noticed if he handled all of Zone 3...he would never have enough time for anything else.

    Guess when I get a day off of work...will look closer at the nodelist.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

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  • From Netsurge@VERT to Don Lowery on Saturday, February 22, 2020 16:33:06
    Knew it had to be more than one. Looked on a globe the other day &
    noticed if he handled all of Zone 3...he would never have enough time
    for anything else.

    Fidonet's echomail distribution is fucked up. Plain an simple. There is
    really no rhyme or reason of how it flows. People get feeds from all over the place, it is a wonder at times that it even works.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
    |07disksh0p|08!|07bbs |08% |07bbs.diskshop.ca |08% |07mystic goodness |11SciNet |03ftn hq |08% |07https://scinet-ftn.org

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (1:229/101)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Don Lowery@VERT to Netsurge on Sunday, February 23, 2020 05:14:12
    Fidonet's echomail distribution is fucked up. Plain an simple. There is really no rhyme or reason of how it flows. People get feeds from all
    over the place, it is a wonder at times that it even works.

    It's not only the distribution...but the same ones who were legends in their own minds years ago are still pulling the same BS. Only now...there are many more nodes outside the US than back in the 90's.

    Take my example...took almost a month to get my node number...then the hub
    for the area tried to work with me...but gave up...so went with Paul. No problems at all. This is crazy...especially since you have those like me who use this medium like I used to do Facebook. Yourself...Paul & everyone else
    on everything but FidoNet have bent over backwards to make sure everything is running the way it's supposed to. I thank all of you for all your help & encouragement. Makes me excited to get home from work to see what everyone's talking about.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: ACME-Member of fsx/WWIV/Sci/Amiga/VKRadio/MicroNet (1:340/1000)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Netsurge@VERT to Don Lowery on Sunday, February 23, 2020 09:39:34
    Take my example...took almost a month to get my node number...then the
    hub for the area tried to work with me...but gave up...so went with
    Paul. No problems at all. This is crazy...especially since you have
    those like me who use this medium like I used to do Facebook. Yourself...Paul & everyone else on everything but FidoNet have bent over backwards to make sure everything is running the way it's supposed to. I thank all of you for all your help & encouragement. Makes me excited to get home from work to see what everyone's talking about.

    The sad part in all of this is Paul, Attreyu and I all live in Fidonets administration, RCs or ZC in this case. I can't really speak for Paul but I know that Nick and myself rail at Fidonet in general most of the time and technically we are railing at ourselves. Yelling into an empty room.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
    |07disksh0p|08!|07bbs |08% |07bbs.diskshop.ca |08% |07mystic goodness |11SciNet |03ftn hq |08% |07https://scinet-ftn.org

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (1:229/101)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Netsurge on Sunday, February 23, 2020 07:49:00
    Netsurge wrote to Don Lowery <=-

    The sad part in all of this is Paul, Attreyu and I all live in Fidonets administration, RCs or ZC in this case. I can't really speak for Paul
    but I know that Nick and myself rail at Fidonet in general most of the time and technically we are railing at ourselves. Yelling into an empty room.

    RC10 here, fight the power from the inside. :)


    ... Did you find what you were looking for?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Stephen Walsh@VERT to Don Lowery on Monday, February 24, 2020 12:10:43
    Hello Don!

    22 Feb 20 08:54, you wrote to me:

    As a matter of fact...I also get my FidoNet feed from him
    since he's
    the Zone 3 hub for FidoNet.
    His *one* of the Zone3 hubs. We have four systems that act as
    hubs.

    Knew it had to be more than one. Looked on a globe the other day &
    noticed if he handled all of Zone 3...he would never have enough time
    for anything else.

    #-)

    When Paul changes 770/1 to use a different mail process that wont strip seen-bys I will moving to more interlinking of echo's with his system.


    Stephen


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- (3:633/280)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Don Lowery@VERT to Netsurge on Monday, February 24, 2020 20:50:44
    but I know that Nick and myself rail at Fidonet in general most of the time and technically we are railing at ourselves. Yelling into an empty room.

    Had to learn the hard way that stiff wind blowing into all of us makes us
    feel nice & warm...but will still urinated all over ourselves.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: ACME-Member of fsx/WWIV/Sci/Amiga/VKRadio/MicroNet (1:340/1000)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Don Lowery@VERT to Stephen Walsh on Monday, February 24, 2020 20:55:08
    When Paul changes 770/1 to use a different mail process that wont strip seen-bys I will moving to more interlinking of echo's with his system.

    He talks about it in the other nets & it's a lot of work. Good luck on both
    of your ends.

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: ACME-Member of fsx/WWIV/Sci/Amiga/VKRadio/MicroNet (1:340/1000)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Netsurge on Sunday, March 15, 2020 23:10:03
    On 2/22/20 2:33 PM, Netsurge wrote:
    Fidonet's echomail distribution is fucked up. Plain an simple. There is really no rhyme or reason of how it flows. People get feeds from all over the place, it is a wonder at times that it even works.

    I really like NNTP myself... just makes more sense to me in an internet
    age vs the alternatives. QWK also seems more reasonable today than FTN though... I don't get the support that FTN seems to get other than, "it
    was good enough for my great grand father." (slightly hyperbolic)

    I would like to see a better NNTP or general BBS client option that used
    it though. Synchronet's adaptation is relatively good. I do wish the
    setup for Dovenet's boards were more usenet like.

    "dove.synchronet" vs "Dove-Net.Synchronet_Discussion"
    or
    "dove.synchronet.javascript" vs "Dove-Net.Synchronet_JavaScript"

    But that's less to do with the protocol... the fact that thunderbird
    defaults reply to the user's email instead of "Followup" with the
    group... or setting X-Apparently-To, etc... Which sync works around.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Tracker1 on Monday, March 16, 2020 20:52:00
    On 03-15-20 23:10, Tracker1 wrote to Netsurge <=-

    I really like NNTP myself... just makes more sense to me in an internet age vs the alternatives. QWK also seems more reasonable today than FTN though... I don't get the support that FTN seems to get other than, "it was good enough for my great grand father." (slightly hyperbolic)

    What do you particularly like about NNTP? Just curious.

    I would like to see a better NNTP or general BBS client option that
    used it though. Synchronet's adaptation is relatively good. I do wish the setup for Dovenet's boards were more usenet like.

    As I've said elsewhere, NNTP, as it stands, has a major design weakness for me, in that last read pointers and newsgroup subscriptions are kept client side. There's also the matter of a lack of To: address in the standard setup, which runs against BBS tradition, but can apparently be worked around.

    Synchronet's implementation of QWK networking is very good, with routing information, QWK netmail, long subjects and other features. It's also publicly documented, so other BBS software can incorporate these extensions (if someone is maintaining the package). I quite like it, though FTN also has the concept of file echos, which is great for distributing things like nodelists and infopacks.

    "dove.synchronet" vs "Dove-Net.Synchronet_Discussion"
    or
    "dove.synchronet.javascript" vs "Dove-Net.Synchronet_JavaScript"

    But that's less to do with the protocol... the fact that thunderbird

    Yeah that's a configuration issue. If it was my net, I'd use a more Usenet style of naming as well.

    defaults reply to the user's email instead of "Followup" with the
    group... or setting X-Apparently-To, etc... Which sync works around.

    I think that's a Thunderbird/newsreader thing. I remember having to remember to followup a post to reply in the group, and use reply is I want to email the poster.

    Maybe I should play more with the NNTP side of my Synchronet system. I've only ever tried it as a means of access to the BBS, not a way to network BBSs.


    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Vk3jed on Thursday, March 19, 2020 22:07:48
    On 3/16/20 2:52 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    On 03-15-20 23:10, Tracker1 wrote to Netsurge <=-
    I really like NNTP myself... just makes more sense to me in an internet
    age vs the alternatives. QWK also seems more reasonable today than FTN though... I don't get the support that FTN seems to get other than, "it
    was good enough for my great grand father." (slightly hyperbolic)

    What do you particularly like about NNTP? Just curious.

    It's a simple protocol that is easy to follow, and works well enough for
    very frequent polling leading to less disconnect on a network level.

    I would like to see a better NNTP or general BBS client option that
    used it though. Synchronet's adaptation is relatively good. I do wish
    the setup for Dovenet's boards were more usenet like.

    As I've said elsewhere, NNTP, as it stands, has a major design weakness for me,
    in that last read pointers and newsgroup subscriptions are kept client side. There's also the matter of a lack of To: address in the standard setup, which runs against BBS tradition, but can apparently be worked around.

    That said, there's nothing stopping a regular user from connecting to a
    telnet bbs, and it's effectively the same... just NNTP between boards vs
    FTN or QWK. Also, nothing stopping anyone from creating a client that
    will centralize the storage of pointers.

    Synchronet's implementation of QWK networking is very good, with routing information, QWK netmail, long subjects and other features. It's also publicly
    documented, so other BBS software can incorporate these extensions (if someone
    is maintaining the package). I quite like it, though FTN also has the concept
    of file echos, which is great for distributing things like nodelists and infopacks.

    Agreed, would be able to add that support in terms of NNTP as additional
    X-* headers that any given client/bbs can support.

    Tr> "dove.synchronet" vs "Dove-Net.Synchronet_Discussion"
    Tr> or
    Tr> "dove.synchronet.javascript" vs "Dove-Net.Synchronet_JavaScript"

    Tr> But that's less to do with the protocol... the fact that thunderbird

    Yeah that's a configuration issue. If it was my net, I'd use a more Usenet style of naming as well.

    Yeah... it's a relatively minor niggle... just something I wish the
    default setup did.

    defaults reply to the user's email instead of "Followup" with the
    group... or setting X-Apparently-To, etc... Which sync works around.

    I think that's a Thunderbird/newsreader thing. I remember having to remember to followup a post to reply in the group, and use reply is I want to email the
    poster.

    Yeah, I changed the default as I kept hitting the wrong thing...

    Maybe I should play more with the NNTP side of my Synchronet system. I've only
    ever tried it as a means of access to the BBS, not a way to network BBSs.

    It's interesting... not the greatest in terms of any setup, but for me,
    much more easy to understand as a protocol than FTN or QWK, not that
    either are too difficult, but I'm wanting to do more client integration
    work eventually.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Vk3jed on Thursday, March 19, 2020 23:21:15
    On 3/16/2020 2:52 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    As I've said elsewhere, NNTP, as it stands, has a major design weakness for me,
    in that last read pointers and newsgroup subscriptions are kept client side. There's also the matter of a lack of To: address in the standard setup, which runs against BBS tradition, but can apparently be worked around.

    Yeah, the existing clients suck... forgot to mention in my prior reply
    that I used to have thunderbird's data directory symlinked under my
    dropbox, so that I could carry the config on multiple systems.

    One of the things I really want to do is work on a nice web ui, as well
    as a standalone ui that's more BBS driven for messages as part of the
    hub idea. It's one of a couple things I want to concentrate on for
    bbs.land and getting a hub working is just one part of that.

    Of course, given how quickly I progress with things, it'll be done
    around 20 years from now. At least once it's setup, with appropriate
    backups in place, should be able to keep it running as long as the bill
    for the VM is paid... so hub will definitely be around a while.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Tracker1 on Friday, March 20, 2020 17:59:00
    On 03-19-20 22:07, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    What do you particularly like about NNTP? Just curious.

    It's a simple protocol that is easy to follow, and works well enough
    for very frequent polling leading to less disconnect on a network
    level.

    I don't know the details, but I'll take your word for it. NNTP has certainly proven itself occross the Internet on a large scale.

    That said, there's nothing stopping a regular user from connecting to a telnet bbs, and it's effectively the same... just NNTP between boards
    vs FTN or QWK. Also, nothing stopping anyone from creating a client
    that will centralize the storage of pointers.

    Yes, NNTP between boards would be interesting to play with. I believe it can be done with Synchronet.

    Agreed, would be able to add that support in terms of NNTP as
    additional X-* headers that any given client/bbs can support.

    Would be good to have a standardised set of X-* headers for BBS networking. Maybe something Synchronet could lead with. And I'd also like to see the domain for system generated Internet style addresses to be configurable, so Synchronet could be used as a network wide gateway. Pity I don't know any C/C++. :(

    Yeah that's a configuration issue. If it was my net, I'd use a more Usenet style of naming as well.

    Yeah... it's a relatively minor niggle... just something I wish the default setup did.

    Agree, a more Usenet style makes better sense.

    Yeah, I changed the default as I kept hitting the wrong thing...

    When I tried NNTP, it didn't take long to use Fullowup, because I was used to (though rusty in) Usenet convention. :)

    Maybe I should play more with the NNTP side of my Synchronet system. I've
    onl
    y
    ever tried it as a means of access to the BBS, not a way to network BBSs.

    It's interesting... not the greatest in terms of any setup, but for me, much more easy to understand as a protocol than FTN or QWK, not that either are too difficult, but I'm wanting to do more client integration work eventually.

    I understand FTN well, since that was the first message networking protocol that I was familiar with. QWK came later, and NNTP, I've only ever done as a user. I never got around to playing with INN.


    ... And then there was the guy who stuffed Corn Flakes in the serial port.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Tracker1 on Friday, March 20, 2020 19:03:00
    On 03-19-20 23:21, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, the existing clients suck... forgot to mention in my prior reply that I used to have thunderbird's data directory symlinked under my dropbox, so that I could carry the config on multiple systems.

    Ahh OK, cool. I do similar with my offline reader setup, except that I use Jungledisk, which allows me to be selective what files I sync (like my taglines! :D ).

    One of the things I really want to do is work on a nice web ui, as well
    as a standalone ui that's more BBS driven for messages as part of the
    hub idea. It's one of a couple things I want to concentrate on for bbs.land and getting a hub working is just one part of that.

    Cool. Well, I'm curious how this all goes. While I'm not a fan of web UIs, I know they're popular with certain user groups, and that's a reason for me to have a decent web UI. And the standalone UI sounds interesting too.

    Of course, given how quickly I progress with things, it'll be done
    around 20 years from now. At least once it's setup, with appropriate backups in place, should be able to keep it running as long as the bill for the VM is paid... so hub will definitely be around a while.

    Hahaha cool. :)


    ... Blessed be the pessimist for he hath bought insurance.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Vk3jed on Saturday, March 21, 2020 02:53:49
    On 3/19/2020 11:59 PM, Vk3jed wrote:
    I understand FTN well, since that was the first message networking
    protocol that I was familiar with. QWK came later, and NNTP, I've
    only ever done as a user. I never got around to playing with INN.

    The nntp service in sync is actually a pretty decent primer... haven't
    looked at it in probably a decade plus at this point, I know there's
    more there than when I last looked...

    Since I'm pretty good with JS, for me it's a natural place to start when integrating client/platform work for the couple sites I want to
    integrate with. Being a pretty standard protocol should help, and Synchronet/platform extensions should help as well...

    Will have to dig in a bit, really interrested in the vote bits and how
    those carry over the network, not to mention the avatars, I don't think
    those are currently in the headers, but could be a nice addition as well.

    As to INN, debating on that and/or including some of the alt.bbs.* text groups.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Tracker1 on Saturday, March 21, 2020 22:14:00
    On 03-21-20 02:53, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/TRN
    On 3/19/2020 11:59 PM, Vk3jed wrote:
    I understand FTN well, since that was the first message networking
    protocol that I was familiar with. QWK came later, and NNTP, I've
    only ever done as a user. I never got around to playing with INN.

    The nntp service in sync is actually a pretty decent primer... haven't looked at it in probably a decade plus at this point, I know there's
    more there than when I last looked...

    OK, sounds like something worth studying. :)

    Since I'm pretty good with JS, for me it's a natural place to start
    when integrating client/platform work for the couple sites I want to integrate with. Being a pretty standard protocol should help, and Synchronet/platform extensions should help as well...

    Perfect mix. I've not done much with JS beyond tweaking Synchronet menus.

    Will have to dig in a bit, really interrested in the vote bits and how those carry over the network, not to mention the avatars, I don't think those are currently in the headers, but could be a nice addition as
    well.

    Ahh, OK. I don't see any of that stuff, because it's not currently available in offline readers. I rarely read online for a number of reasons.


    ... "Aw, mom, you act like I'm not even wearing a bungee cord!"
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Vk3jed on Thursday, March 26, 2020 05:26:29
    On 3/21/2020 4:14 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Will have to dig in a bit, really interrested in the vote bits and how those carry over the network, not to mention the avatars, I don't think those are currently in the headers, but could be a nice addition as
    well.

    Ahh, OK. I don't see any of that stuff, because it's not currently available in offline readers. I rarely read online for a number of reasons.

    Yeah, I was surprised myself... was playing with setting up my
    header/reader mod on TRN... still need to adjust my lightbar reader
    prompt to match the new/added commands.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tony Langdon@VERT to Tracker1 on Friday, March 27, 2020 16:56:00
    On 03-26-20 05:26, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, I was surprised myself... was playing with setting up my header/reader mod on TRN... still need to adjust my lightbar reader
    prompt to match the new/added commands.

    Cool, more stuff to play with. :)


    ... "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'"
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net