Hi, any advance to get long file names into the library?

another question, has zmodem LFS support?

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On 2018 Dec 02 15:27:14, you wrote to DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Discussion:

another question, has zmodem LFS support?

no and there's also a 2G limit on file size, IIRC...

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El 2/12/18 a las 15:27, Ragnarok escribió:

Hi, any advance to get long file names into the library?

another question, has zmodem LFS support?

sorry, i mean LFN.

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Re: LFS support on file library
By: Ragnarok to DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Discussion on Sun Dec 02 2018 03:27 pm

Hi, any advance to get long file names into the library?

Yes.

another question, has zmodem LFS support?

The ZMODEM protocol doesn't have any file name limitations (though it does have a 4GB file *size* limitation). SEXYZ doens't have any file name limitations either.

digital man

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Re: LFS support on file library
By: Digital Man to Ragnarok on Sun Dec 02 2018 21:29:29

Re: LFS support on file library
By: Ragnarok to DOVE-Net.Synchronet_Discussion on Sun Dec 02 2018 03:27 pm

Hi, any advance to get long file names into the library?

Yes.

woow! great!

another question, has zmodem LFS support?

The ZMODEM protocol doesn't have any file name limitations (though it does have a 4GB file *size* limitation). SEXYZ doens't have any file name limitations either.

thanks for clarify!
Ragnarok
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Ragnarok wrote:

Hi, any advance to get long file names into the library?

another question, has zmodem LFS support?

The more I campaigned for it, the more I realize it's a bad idea.

The reason being, there's a lot of legacy systems out there that can only handle 8.3. If we start sending out files which LFN then older systems are going to choke on those files.

While it's a nice to have, I would rather see multi level file transfer
menus so I can better categorieze my downloads.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, especially after being vocal about LFN to
start with.

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Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Nelgin to Ragnarok on Mon Dec 03 2018 02:19 pm

The more I campaigned for it, the more I realize it's a bad idea.

The reason being, there's a lot of legacy systems out there that can only handle 8.3. If we start sending out files which LFN then older systems are going to choke on those files.

While it's a nice to have, I would rather see multi level file transfer menus so I can better categorieze my downloads.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, especially after being vocal about LFN to start with.

i made a 'transfer protocol' that uses rar to archive the file(s) retaining their lfn. it creates a temporary file and sends it to the user.
i also did it with renegade bbs.

if the user downloads a lot of files, they get them catergorized based on file areas. i think it's better this way.
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Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Nelgin to Ragnarok on Mon Dec 03 2018 02:19 pm

Hi, any advance to get long file names into the library?

another question, has zmodem LFS support?

The more I campaigned for it, the more I realize it's a bad idea.

The reason being, there's a lot of legacy systems out there that can only handle 8.3. If we start sending out files which LFN then older systems are going to choke on those files.

How many older/legacy clients are still being used to call BBSes these days? I'm sure that question probably sounds odd, being that BBSes like this is an old-school hobby, but I'd think at some point it's nice to move things forward. Synchronet has moved things forward with its ability to run on modern operating systems and its built-in servers for telnet, web, FTP, etc.. Synchronet already does have partial long filename support, and I don't see why it couldn't include that for file transfers too. I'm wondering if there's a way to detect if the client terminal is an old/legacy terminal so that it could still send an 8.3 filename if it had to.

Also, I'm wondering if 8.3 filenames were common on other systems back in the day too? Besides DOS (which had the 8.3 filename limit), there was also Commodore 64, Amiga, Apple II, Macintosh, etc., and I'm not sure they all had the same 8.3 filename limitation in the first place.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Nightfox to Nelgin on Mon Dec 03 2018 05:25 pm

etc.. Synchronet already does have partial long filename support, and I don't see why it couldn't include that for file transfers too.

It already does, but the support relies on Windows auto-magic long filename to Micros~1 short filenames (and vice versa) conversions, so it doesn't work on *nix.

I'm
wondering if there's a way to detect if the client terminal is an old/legacy terminal so that it could still send an 8.3 filename if it had to.

Not really, but old/legacy terminals likely just truncate the filename to 11 chars. Y/ZMODEM has been available on *nix systems for decades, so it's not a new issue and likely already handled gracefully in old client software.

I think what Nelgin was referring to was file distribution networks (FDNs).

digital man

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El 4/12/18 a las 03:16, Digital Man escribió:

Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Nightfox to Nelgin on Mon Dec 03 2018 05:25 pm

etc.. Synchronet already does have partial long filename support, and I don't see why it couldn't include that for file transfers too.

It already does, but the support relies on Windows auto-magic long filename to
Micros~1 short filenames (and vice versa) conversions, so it doesn't work on *nix.

I'm
wondering if there's a way to detect if the client terminal is an old/legacy
terminal so that it could still send an 8.3 filename if it had to.

Not really, but old/legacy terminals likely just truncate the filename to 11 chars. Y/ZMODEM has been available on *nix systems for decades, so it's not a new issue and likely already handled gracefully in old client software.

I think what Nelgin was referring to was file distribution networks (FDNs).

digital man

i understand many points of view, i just have this use case:

i have several electrical/electronic books and magazines scanned at

ftp://bbs.docksud.com.ar/main/ELECTRON/

this files cannot be download via terminal (i use syncterm) because for
sbbs they are offline


þ Archivo þ 0:20:15 (3) Main (20) Electronica: D

Descargar archivo(s)

Filespec [All Files]:

Library : (3) Main
Directory : (20) Electronica
Filename : 34Proye.cto
Credit value : FREE
Description : 34 Proyectos_de_CEKIT.pdf
Uploaded by : Ragnarok
Uploaded on : Sat Jan 02 2016 09:49:02
Last downloaded : Fri May 05 2017 10:42:25
Times downloaded : 1


File is not online.
/sbbs/data/dirs/main/ELECTRONICA/34Proye.cto

Quit or [Next]:

Maybe as workaround for terminal, can be "temporal named" to the first 8 filename letters + the pdf extension in this example and enable to
download it via zmodem protocol.

Saludos!

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El 3/12/18 a las 22:33, MRO escribió:

i made a 'transfer protocol' that uses rar to archive the file(s) retaining their lfn. it creates a temporary file and sends it to the user.
i also did it with renegade bbs.

I'm interested, can you share it?

i thinking in "sent to email" protocol too

if the user downloads a lot of files, they get them catergorized based on file
areas. i think it's better this way.
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On 12-03-18 17:25, Nightfox wrote to Nelgin <=-

How many older/legacy clients are still being used to call BBSes these days? I'm sure that question probably sounds odd, being that BBSes like this is an old-school hobby, but I'd think at some point it's nice to

Good question. I do have some legacy setups (mainly Telix under DOSBox), but my primary terminal is SyncTerm on both Windows and Linux.

move things forward. Synchronet has moved things forward with its
ability to run on modern operating systems and its built-in servers for telnet, web, FTP, etc.. Synchronet already does have partial long filename support, and I don't see why it couldn't include that for file transfers too. I'm wondering if there's a way to detect if the client terminal is an old/legacy terminal so that it could still send an 8.3 filename if it had to.

I'm not sure that's possible, but you could have it as a per-user setting, and let users decide if they want LFNs or have the system do a Windows 95 style of filename mangling into 8.3.

Also, I'm wondering if 8.3 filenames were common on other systems back
in the day too? Besides DOS (which had the 8.3 filename limit), there
was also Commodore 64, Amiga, Apple II, Macintosh, etc., and I'm not
sure they all had the same 8.3 filename limitation in the first place.

DOS and CP/M certainly had the 8.3 limit. I can't recall what Applesoft/ProDOS limits were - I have a feeling that at least ProDOS supported some longer filenames. I'm sure Mac always supported LFNs, same for Amiga. C64 - no idea, never owned one. And of course, Unix (there was a bit around back then, especially in the form of shell accounts) supported LFNs. My first ISP ran BSDi and offered shell access fairly cheaply.


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On 12-03-18 22:16, Digital Man wrote to Nightfox <=-

I think what Nelgin was referring to was file distribution networks (FDNs).

The ideal solution here would be to have both the long and 8.3 equivalent filenames in the TIC file, a bit like how Windows does it on filesystems. Of course, this would still need to be able to be handled properly somehow on older TIC processors without losing the LFN information for newer systems downstream. I would like to see some way of getting LFN support in FDNs, but we don't want to break older systems.


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Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Ragnarok to MRO on Tue Dec 04 2018 11:51 am

i made a 'transfer protocol' that uses rar to archive the file(s) retaining their lfn. it creates a temporary file and sends it to the user.
i also did it with renegade bbs.

I'm interested, can you share it?

it's just an ugly hack, i'm sure you could make your own in a few mins.
it takes advantage of the list character the bbs makes and uses it with the list function in rar.

i was going to do an file email function but blat keeps bombing on me for some reason all of a sudden.

it would be easy to create a temporary file that gets wiped every night and email the user the link.
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Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Tony Langdon to Nightfox on Wed Dec 05 2018 08:16 am

supported LFNs. My first ISP ran BSDi and offered shell access fairly cheaply.

Shell accounts and FTP access seemed fairly common with ISPs until around 2010 or so. It's a bummer, since I liked being able to put up a simple web site or some files to share online that way. Also, one thing I used to do a long time ago to shorten my download times was to log into my ISP shell account and download files there via wget or FTP and then download it from my ISP via ISP. For some reason, files were able to download to my ISP very fast, and naturally, my connection to my ISP was fast so I'd be able to download it from there fairly fast, compared to directly downloading the file from its FTP/web site.

Nightfox

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Nightfox wrote:

Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Nelgin to Ragnarok on Mon Dec 03 2018 02:19 pm

Hi, any advance to get long file names into the library?

another question, has zmodem LFS support?

The more I campaigned for it, the more I realize it's a bad idea.

The reason being, there's a lot of legacy systems out there that can only
handle 8.3. If we start sending out files which LFN then older systems are
going to choke on those files.

How many older/legacy clients are still being used to call BBSes these days?

Marc Lewis's BBS runs on OS/2 so that has to be old. :) I'd have to check. There's quite a few CBM64 boards.

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On 12-04-18 17:08, Nightfox wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

Shell accounts and FTP access seemed fairly common with ISPs until
around 2010 or so. It's a bummer, since I liked being able to put up a simple web site or some files to share online that way. Also, one

Yes, I did that too, though I have since moved the content to a Linu based webx server. :)

thing I used to do a long time ago to shorten my download times was to
log into my ISP shell account and download files there via wget or FTP
and then download it from my ISP via ISP. For some reason, files were
able to download to my ISP very fast, and naturally, my connection to
my ISP was fast so I'd be able to download it from there fairly fast, compared to directly downloading the file from its FTP/web site.

I used to do that too, and it makes sense. Back then, the Internet was more congested, and there weren't as many content distribution networks around. Packets would occasionally get dropped, which would cause TCP to back off and ask for retransmissions, and the ISP's connection was orders of magnitude faster than the end user's modem, which meant that the average download speed was still much faster than a modem could handle. If the transfer was over TCP across the modem, the retransmissions would affect the download and make it much slower than the modem speed.

Anyway, once the ISP has the download, then it's a simple matter of using "sz" to start the download of the file locally - at full speed using a protocol designed for modem connections. Much more efficient at modem speeds.


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Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Tony Langdon to Nightfox on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:35 pm

Anyway, once the ISP has the download, then it's a simple matter of using "sz" to start the download of the file locally - at full speed using a protocol designed for modem connections. Much more efficient at modem speeds.

Isn't "sz" a zmodem command? I'd be downloading files from my storage on my ISP using FTP while connected to their ISP service with the full Winsock/PPP stack going, rather than with a terminal client using zmodem.

Nightfox

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On 12-05-18 09:54, Nightfox wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

Re: Re: LFS support on file library
By: Tony Langdon to Nightfox on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:35 pm

Anyway, once the ISP has the download, then it's a simple matter of using "sz" to start the download of the file locally - at full speed using a protocol designed for modem connections. Much more efficient at modem speeds.

Isn't "sz" a zmodem command? I'd be downloading files from my storage
on my ISP using FTP while connected to their ISP service with the full Winsock/PPP stack going, rather than with a terminal client using
zmodem.

Not if you're on a terminal session to a shell account, but if you are connected using IP, sure, FTP would work then. With my ISP, I only used shell access when I was using a terminal emulator. I probably could have telnetted in if I was using PPP, but don't recall doing so.

In later years, when I was using Linux, there were shells available in a few places along the way, but often it was easier starting FTP on the Linux router, and leaving it run overnight.


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