• Qemu for DOS doors?

    From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to All on Friday, November 30, 2018 15:47:26
    I was searching through some old Dovenet threads and found many mentions of sysops who ran Synchronet inside of Qemu.

    Is there anyone out there who runs Synchronet on their normal OS but uses Qemu for DOS doors (similar to how linux Sync works with dosemu)?

    If so, how do you launch/configure it to work with the BBS?

    --Josh

    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    þ Synchronet
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to Kirkman on Sunday, December 02, 2018 15:22:18
    El 30/11/18 a las 18:47, Kirkman escribió:
    I was searching through some old Dovenet threads and found many mentions of sysops who ran Synchronet inside of Qemu.

    Is there anyone out there who runs Synchronet on their normal OS but uses Qemu
    for DOS doors (similar to how linux Sync works with dosemu)?

    If so, how do you launch/configure it to work with the BBS?

    i think that the hard part must be to dynamic mount the "door"
    filesystem into qemu, maybe via network share, but increase the startup
    door time

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - http://bbs.docksud.com.ar - telnet://bbs.docksud.com.ar
  • From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to Ragnarok on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 09:30:32
    i think that the hard part must be to dynamic mount the "door"
    filesystem into qemu, maybe via network share, but increase the startup
    door time

    Thanks, Ragnarok. Do you use qemu with your BBS?

    --Josh

    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    þ Synchronet
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to Kirkman on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 18:51:09
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Kirkman to Ragnarok on Tue Dec 04 2018 09:30:32

    i think that the hard part must be to dynamic mount the "door"
    filesystem into qemu, maybe via network share, but increase the startup door time

    Thanks, Ragnarok. Do you use qemu with your BBS?

    Nop, i run Sync native on Debian, but i have several VM's on kvm/qemu
    can you not use dosemu?

    Ragnarok
    ---
    Dock sud BBS
    http://bbs.docksud.com.ar
    þ Synchronet þ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - http://bbs.docksud.com.ar - telnet://bbs.docksud.com.ar
  • From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to Ragnarok on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 17:57:13
    Nop, i run Sync native on Debian, but i have several VM's on kvm/qemu
    can you not use dosemu?

    I’m trying to run Synchronet on my Mac. Right now dosemu doesn’t support MacOS, so I’m exploring alternatives.

    (However the dosemu2 guy is being responsive and I plan to help trying to get it to run on the Mac. But that may take quite a while.)

    —Josh

    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    þ Synchronet
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Kirkman on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 17:43:11
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Kirkman to Ragnarok on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:57 pm

    I’m trying to run Synchronet on my Mac. Right now dosemu doesn’t

    It seems your apostrophe characters are probably using a different encoding that's causing them to not be displayed well in a text terminal.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to Nightfox on Friday, December 07, 2018 10:31:21
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Nightfox to Kirkman on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:43 pm

    I’m trying to run Synchronet on my Mac. Right now dosemu doesn’t

    It seems your apostrophe characters are probably using a different

    Yeah, that's me typing on a Mac web browser into the ecweb interface.
    Hopefully the world won't end.

    --Josh

    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    þ Synchronet
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Kirkman on Friday, December 07, 2018 13:42:57
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Kirkman to Nightfox on Fri Dec 07 2018 10:31 am

    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Nightfox to Kirkman on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:43 pm

    I’m trying to run Synchronet on my Mac. Right now dosemu doesn’t

    It seems your apostrophe characters are probably using a different

    Yeah, that's me typing on a Mac web browser into the ecweb interface. Hopefully the world won't end.

    It'd be cool if ecweb could do some unicode->ASCII conversion though.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #18:
    Sustain, listen to it. Don't hear anything. You would though were it playing. Norco, CA WX: 64.8øF, 51.0% humidity, 7 mph SW wind, 0.64 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to Digital Man on Friday, December 07, 2018 17:37:15
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Digital Man to Kirkman on Fri Dec 07 2018 13:42:57

    It'd be cool if ecweb could do some unicode->ASCII conversion though.

    I've tried to stay away from mangling the original message prior to storage, but it could be done. If I can find a vanilla JS iconv that will work on the server side, sure.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
    þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to echicken on Friday, December 07, 2018 14:51:47
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: echicken to Digital Man on Fri Dec 07 2018 05:37 pm

    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Digital Man to Kirkman on Fri Dec 07 2018 13:42:57

    It'd be cool if ecweb could do some unicode->ASCII conversion though.

    I've tried to stay away from mangling the original message prior to storage, but it could be done. If I can find a vanilla JS iconv that will work on the server side, sure.

    We don't (officially, anyway) support unicode in the message bases, yet, so it'd be a good idea to sanitize the input. Or maybe there's someway in the input forms to tell the browser to send ASCII chars only?

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #42:
    MODEM = Modulator/Demodulator
    Norco, CA WX: 64.0øF, 52.0% humidity, 1 mph SSW wind, 0.31 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Kirkman on Friday, December 07, 2018 17:02:54
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Kirkman to Nightfox on Fri Dec 07 2018 10:31 am

    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Nightfox to Kirkman on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:43 pm

    I’m trying to run Synchronet on my Mac. Right now dosemu doesn’t

    It seems your apostrophe characters are probably using a different

    Yeah, that's me typing on a Mac web browser into the ecweb interface. Hopefully the world won't end.



    well it does look weird.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to Digital Man on Friday, December 07, 2018 18:06:27
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Digital Man to echicken on Fri Dec 07 2018 14:51:47

    We don't (officially, anyway) support unicode in the message bases, yet, so it'd be a good idea to sanitize the input. Or maybe there's someway in the input forms to tell the browser to send ASCII chars only?

    It typically flows in the other direction (browser tells server which character sets and encodings it likes), but I should brush up on content negotiation to be sure about that. Input sanitization should be done on the server though.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
    þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Apam@VERT/POSBRAIN to Digital Man on Saturday, December 08, 2018 10:16:48
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Digital Man to Kirkman on Fri Dec 07 2018 01:42 pm

    Yeah, that's me typing on a Mac web browser into the ecweb
    interface. Hopefully the world won't end.

    It'd be cool if ecweb could do some unicode->ASCII conversion though.

    I don't know if it will help anyone, but I had this problem on my web interface too, it turns out Macs use 'smart quotes' rather than ordinary quotes - iconv choked on them until I learned about the TRANSLIT switch.

    Andrew

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Positronic Brain - Synchronet Test BBS
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Apam on Friday, December 07, 2018 22:28:24
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Apam to Digital Man on Sat Dec 08 2018 10:16 am

    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Digital Man to Kirkman on Fri Dec 07 2018 01:42 pm

    Yeah, that's me typing on a Mac web browser into the ecweb
    interface. Hopefully the world won't end.

    It'd be cool if ecweb could do some unicode->ASCII conversion though.

    I don't know if it will help anyone, but I had this problem on my web interface too, it turns out Macs use 'smart quotes' rather than ordinary quotes - iconv choked on them until I learned about the TRANSLIT switch.


    people just shouldnt use macs!
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Chai@VERT/FRUGALBB to Nightfox on Friday, December 07, 2018 23:33:28
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Nightfox to Kirkman on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:43 pm

    It seems your apostrophe characters are probably using a different encoding that's causing them to not be displayed well in a text terminal.

    I noticed something similar from my messages when I did a few backreads via the BBS. It was obviously the text editor that was the culprit. As far as I recall, my text editor was using Unicode. I thought Unicode was backwards compatible with ASCII. As long as you're using an English keyboard, the codes are supposed to be identical? Obviously, I must be wrong on this, but that was my previous assumption. I resolved the issue by switching to medit and changing the default encoding to ASCII. At least, I hope it's resolved.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Frugal Computing BBS - frugalbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Chai on Saturday, December 08, 2018 00:28:54
    Re: Encoding
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Fri Dec 07 2018 11:33 pm

    I noticed something similar from my messages when I did a few backreads via the BBS. It was obviously the text editor that was the culprit. As far as I recall, my text editor was using Unicode. I thought Unicode was backwards compatible with ASCII. As long as you're using an English keyboard, the codes are supposed to be identical?

    I'm not sure. I know ASCII uses 8-bit (or 7-bit?) values, and Unicode uses 16-bit values. I'm not sure the Unicode values for English characters are the same as the ASCII values.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Chai on Saturday, December 08, 2018 11:53:52
    Re: Encoding
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Fri Dec 07 2018 11:33 pm

    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Nightfox to Kirkman on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:43 pm

    It seems your apostrophe characters are probably using a different encoding that's causing them to not be displayed well in a text terminal.

    I noticed something similar from my messages when I did a few backreads via the BBS. It was obviously the text editor that was the culprit. As far as I recall, my text editor was using Unicode. I thought Unicode was backwards compatible with ASCII. As long as you're using an English keyboard, the codes are supposed to be identical? Obviously, I must be wrong on this, but


    i'm surprised someone is even using the web browser for regular msg base use. the web interface msg system is pretty limited, i thought. i havent looked in a year or so.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to Nightfox on Saturday, December 08, 2018 13:30:42
    Re: Encoding
    By: Nightfox to Chai on Sat Dec 08 2018 00:28:54

    I'm not sure. I know ASCII uses 8-bit (or 7-bit?) values, and Unicode uses 16-bit values. I'm not sure the Unicode values for English characters are the same as the ASCII values.

    IIRC Unicode uses anywhere from one to four bytes to encode a character.
    ASCII is valid UTF-8 but the opposite is not always true. Normally this isn't a problem if characters > 127 are ignored when interpreting the input as ASCII, but we don't generally do that in BBS-land.

    In this case a Mac was using some fancy apostrophes or something which were encoded into two or more bytes. Terminals expecting CP437 showed several characters in place of the intended one.

    Incidentally and off on a tangent, I once had a print-accounting system break on me because somebody included an emoji in their document title. The system attempted to log the print job, but the database wasn't set up to handle strings with that character width. This stuff causes little problems everywhere, and cleaning up inputs is important.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
    þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Chai@VERT/THEWASTE to MRO on Saturday, December 08, 2018 14:01:00
    MRO wrote to Chai <=-

    i'm surprised someone is even using the web browser for regular msg
    base use. the web interface msg system is pretty limited, i thought. i havent looked in a year or so.

    I haven't used the web interface for messaging, but I'm sure if I did,
    I'd agree. I use QWK mail because I can be distracted in the middle of
    the message, and not get timed out.

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-
  • From Chai@VERT/THEWASTE to Nightfox on Saturday, December 08, 2018 14:17:00
    Nightfox wrote to Chai <=-

    I'm not sure. I know ASCII uses 8-bit (or 7-bit?) values, and Unicode uses 16-bit values. I'm not sure the Unicode values for English characters are the same as the ASCII values.

    I see. That certainly makes sense now, thanks to you and echicken.

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to echicken on Saturday, December 08, 2018 12:20:25
    Re: Encoding
    By: echicken to Nightfox on Sat Dec 08 2018 01:30 pm

    In this case a Mac was using some fancy apostrophes or something which were encoded into two or more bytes. Terminals expecting CP437 showed several characters in place of the intended one.

    I seem to remember seeing Macs do that sometimes.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Saturday, December 08, 2018 12:25:26
    Re: Encoding
    By: MRO to Chai on Sat Dec 08 2018 11:53 am

    i'm surprised someone is even using the web browser for regular msg base use. the web interface msg system is pretty limited, i thought. i havent looked in a year or so.

    ecweb v4 is pretty decent, IMO. It looks somewhat similar to other web message forum software packages.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Saturday, December 08, 2018 13:18:48
    Re: Encoding
    By: Nightfox to Chai on Sat Dec 08 2018 12:28 am

    Re: Encoding
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Fri Dec 07 2018 11:33 pm

    I noticed something similar from my messages when I did a few backreads via the BBS. It was obviously the text editor that was the culprit. As far as I recall, my text editor was using Unicode. I thought Unicode was backwards compatible with ASCII. As long as you're using an English keyboard, the codes are supposed to be identical?

    I'm not sure. I know ASCII uses 8-bit (or 7-bit?) values, and Unicode uses 16-bit values.

    The most popular encoding of Unicode today is UTF-8 which uses variable-length encoding of characters (with a minimum bit-width of 8).

    I'm not sure the Unicode values for English characters are
    the same as the ASCII values.

    They are. And the basic symbols are as well, but it seems some browers don't send the normal apostrophe code for single-quote, but some other non-ASCII-equivalent code.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #23:
    David St. Hubbins: I envy us.
    Norco, CA WX: 71.1øF, 41.0% humidity, 2 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Saturday, December 08, 2018 20:09:00
    Re: Encoding
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Dec 08 2018 12:25 pm

    Re: Encoding
    By: MRO to Chai on Sat Dec 08 2018 11:53 am

    i'm surprised someone is even using the web browser for regular msg base use. the web interface msg system is pretty limited, i thought. i havent looked in a year or so.

    ecweb v4 is pretty decent, IMO. It looks somewhat similar to other web message forum software packages.


    i looked at it, lots of improvements. i still prefer reading on a bbs. seems faster to newscan and reply.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From mark lewis@VERT to Nightfox on Sunday, December 09, 2018 13:13:48
    On 2018 Dec 05 17:43:10, you wrote to Kirkman:

    I’m trying to run Synchronet on my Mac. Right now dosemu doesn’t

    It seems your apostrophe characters are probably using a different encoding that's causing them to not be displayed well in a text
    terminal.

    that's UTF-8 muck... i generally see it when pasting UTF-8 text into a terminal
    window... they're using typeset apostrophies and quotes instead of the standard
    CP437 ones...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Like an epic sweatshop junk-food wasteland of a North Idaho Wal-Mart.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Charles Stephenson@VERT to MRO on Sunday, December 09, 2018 13:36:39
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: MRO to Apam on Fri Dec 07 2018 10:28 pm

    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Apam to Digital Man on Sat Dec 08 2018 10:16 am

    people just shouldnt use macs!

    LOL!!!
    Regards,
    KrUpTiOn
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: The New Frontier 2: thenewfrontier2.hopto.org (OH) (1:226/17)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Mortifis@VERT/EMPTYKEG to MRO on Monday, December 10, 2018 15:21:17
    Re: Encoding
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Fri Dec 07 2018 11:33 pm

    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Nightfox to Kirkman on Wed Dec 05 2018 05:43 pm


    i'm surprised someone is even using the web browser for regular msg base use. the web interface msg system is pretty limited, i thought. i havent looked in a year or so.

    I'm lazy I guess, I use the Nightshade web interface for messages :-P

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Empty Keg BBS emptykeg.synchro.net:82 Lake Echo NS Canada
  • From Tracker1@VERT to Kirkman on Tuesday, December 18, 2018 14:36:46
    Nop, i run Sync native on Debian, but i have several VM's on kvm/qemu
    can you not use dosemu?

    I'm trying to run Synchronet on my Mac. Right now dosemu doesn't support MacOS, so I'm exploring alternatives.

    (However the dosemu2 guy is being responsive and I plan to help trying to
    get it to run on the Mac. But that may take quite a while.)

    In the interim, you *could* use a Linux VM or Docker for Mac (same thing effectively) and just
    use the linux version of Synchronet there. NOTE: if you use the Docker route, do *NOT* do a
    volume mount from the BBS to the system drive, the volume sync in docker windows/mac is
    very slow, to say the least.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    http://tracker1.info/

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to Tracker1 on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 15:27:43
    My BBS already lives in a Linux VM, and has since I launched it years ago. But I think I'd get a big speed boost hosting it directly on my Mac, so that's why I'm exploring this stuff. With Nelgin's help, we managed to compile SBBS on the Mac, and it does run. The main thing I lack is a way to run DOS doors.

    --Josh

    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    þ Synchronet
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Kirkman on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 13:49:26
    Re: Re: Qemu for DOS doors?
    By: Kirkman to Tracker1 on Wed Dec 19 2018 03:27 pm

    My BBS already lives in a Linux VM, and has since I launched it years ago. But I think I'd get a big speed boost hosting it directly on my Mac, so that's why I'm exploring this stuff. With Nelgin's help, we managed to compile SBBS on the Mac, and it does run. The main thing I lack is a way to run DOS doors.

    Neat. Even without DOS door support, Synchronet on a Mac might be a very desireable thing for some folks. Do you have a how-to or could add one to wiki.synchro.net?

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #41:
    Ian Faith: It say's "Memphis show cancelled due to lack of advertising funds." Norco, CA WX: 71.4øF, 47.0% humidity, 4 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Kirkman@VERT/GUARDIAN to Digital Man on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 21:39:30
    Neat. Even without DOS door support, Synchronet on a Mac might be a very desireable thing for some folks. Do you have a how-to or could add one to wiki.synchro.net?

    Yeah, I think that'd be worth doing. But there are probably some things that need to be addressed in the makefiles first. I was able to work around some stuff, and Nelgin was able to work around some stuff, but it'd probably be better for an expert to actually solve the problem. My changes (see link below) may have introduced new issues that I just haven't encountered yet in my (very limited) initial tests.

    I compiled most of the things that we found were necessary in a gist here:

    https://gist.github.com/Kirkman/06db0a189272d482464a32ea1e9cefa1

    Since I embarked on the dosemu errand, I haven't had time go back to messing with SBBS on the Mac. Dosemu needs a lot of work since it was designed specifically for linux and not really multi-platform. But the developer has been very responsive, and we're slowly making progress here: https://github.com/stsp/dosemu2/issues/721


    ////--------------------------------------------------
    BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

    ---
    þ Synchronet
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to Kirkman on Saturday, December 22, 2018 23:04:52
    El 19/12/18 a las 18:27, Kirkman escribió:
    My BBS already lives in a Linux VM, and has since I launched it years ago. But
    I think I'd get a big speed boost hosting it directly on my Mac, so that's why
    I'm exploring this stuff. With Nelgin's help, we managed to compile SBBS on the
    Mac, and it does run. The main thing I lack is a way to run DOS doors.

    what VM tecnology are you use?
    I have several VM's and i have not speed impact.
    I use qemu on Linux + KVM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - http://bbs.docksud.com.ar - telnet://bbs.docksud.com.ar