Six Easy Steps

1. First, you must want to believe in God.
2. Next, understand that believing in God in the absence of evidence is especially noble.
3. Then, realize that the human ability to believe in God in the absence of evidence might itself constitute evidence for the existence of God.
4. Now consider any need for further evidence (both in yourself and in others) to be a form of temptation, spiritually unhealthy, or a corruption of the intellect.
5. Refer to steps 2-4 as acts of “faith.”
6. Return to 2.


[Copied from http://tinyurl.com/yu4aos]


This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.

---
þ Synchronet þ Thwap.net

Six Easy Steps

1. First, you must want to believe in God.
2. Next, understand that believing in God in the absence of evidence is especially noble.
3. Then, realize that the human ability to believe in God in the absence of evidence might itself constitute evidence for the existence of God.
4. Now consider any need for further evidence (both in yourself and in others) to be a form of temptation, spiritually unhealthy, or a corruption of the intellect.
5. Refer to steps 2-4 as acts of “faith.”
6. Return to 2.

[Copied from http://tinyurl.com/yu4aos]

This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.

---

þ Synchronet þ Thwap.net


Faith does not need to be, and cannot be proven or disproved by Scientific, or any other method. By its sheer definition, it is a belief. The above listed process could rightfully, and just as easily be titled "How to believe in anything"

Hebrews 11:1 lists it this way:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Dictionary.com gives the following definition of Faith:
faith /feɪθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
—Idiom9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -

[Origin: 1200–50; ME feith < AF fed, OF feid, feit < L fidem, acc. of fidés trust, akin to f&#299;dere to trust. See confide]

Listen, everyone has faith to some degree. It is simply a matter of how much faith you have, and what you put it in. Evolutionists believe that we evolved from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were created as far as I can tell. Some people believe that we just popped into existance. Again this requires a large amount of faith. Why is it so hard for you to believe that possibly, just possibly you were created for a certain purpose by a Supernatural creative God? It is very narrow-minded to believe that everything must be explained. I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but I am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense of imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination. I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or the Moon in place, but they are staying up there in space right? Not floating away or crashing down on top of us. What a sad and boring world you must live in to not be filled with wonder and imagination. I can tell you this, I would not want an existence like this.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Listen, everyone has faith to some degree. It is simply a matter of how much faith you have, and what you put it in. Evolutionists believe that we evolved from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were created as far as I can tell. Some people believe that we just popped into existance. Again this requires a large amount of faith. Why is it so hard for you to believe that possibly, just possibly you were created for a certain purpose by a Supernatural creative God? It is very narrow-minded to believe that everything must be explained. I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but I am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense of imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination. I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or the Moon in place, but they are staying up there in space right? Not floating away or crashing down on top of us. What a sad and boring world you must live in to not be filled with wonder and imagination. I can tell you this, I would not want an existence like this.

You really do need to read some Richard Dawkins. You clearly are lacking in serious knowledge when it comes to evolution if you think it requires a larger leap of faith than to believe in a tyrannical self-absorbed xenophobic misogynistic omnipotent omniscient omnipresent deity that manifests a son of his own spirit to send to a planet of heathens so they will deny and crucify him to appease said deity; the same deity that actually created the heathens in the first place and defined sin and cursed all of mankind to be born into it because of a mistake in his own creation; the same deity that wants to give his creation the gift of a brain and logic yet requires you to suspend it to accept his existence; the same deity that wants you to believe that the Earth is only 6 thousands years old in spite of mountains of evidence. I will suggest "The Selfish Gene", "River out of Eden" and "The Blind Watchmaker" to clear up some of your confusion.

You don't need to entertain delusion to have an imagination; and you really shouldn't imply that because one doesn't believe in "God" they must not have an imagination. It is very narrow-minded to think that your God is the "right one" or the only one, or that people of other faiths are misguided.

Furthermore, you are trying to support your belief in God by dragging your imagination into it? I think you're onto something here...

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Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to All on Fri Sep 28 2007 12:36 pm

Six Easy Steps

1. First, you must want to believe in God.
2. Next, understand that believing in God in the absence of evidence is especially noble.
3. Then, realize that the human ability to believe in God in the absence of evidence might itself constitute evidence for the existence of God.
4. Now consider any need for further evidence (both in yourself and in other to be a form of temptation, spiritually unhealthy, or a corruption of the intellect.
5. Refer to steps 2-4 as acts of “faith.”
6. Return to 2.

[Copied from http://tinyurl.com/yu4aos]

This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.

I don't know why people are so arrogant to think that if something is unobservable by "scientific standards" that it can't exist. Like we're even CLOSE to understanding even the things on this planet, let alone the
universe.

There is so much more that science DOESN'T understand than there are things that it does.

---
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I don't know why people are so arrogant to think that if something is unobservable by "scientific standards" that it can't exist. Like we're even CLOSE to understanding even the things on this planet, let alone the universe.

There is so much more that science DOESN'T understand than there are things that it does.

I don't deny that we have learned but a drop in the bucket of knowledge. I certainly agree that things can exist without us understanding them. However, that is hardly a case being made for the existence of any omniscient omnipotent being. I make no claims about its existence, other than all such evidence FOR its existence (at least that I have seen) is just grasping at straws. It is the believers that make a claim and when backed into a corner pull out the card of "we're too insignificant to know how or why" or "it's God's will". The problem with that line of thinking is that it's so easily abused, and put up on a pedestal where we are told it can't be touched by logic or reason.

---
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Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to All on Fri Sep 28 2007 13:36:00

This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.

I mostly agree with you. Except that science does the same thing - just look at the resources wasted on M-theory, and SETI, and other such stuff.


It's all a metaphor, man! Both ways of looking at things show the human weakness of looking for authorities to provide the answers to life.

I have nothing against science, don't get me wrong, but I do have issues with untestable theories being called scientific... the nature of science is that it builds theories based on empirical, replicable evidence.

A great deal of science, especially under the peer-review publication system, has a tendancy toward scholasticism, much as religion does. It's truth by authority, as opposed to the evidence of the senses.

But NEITHER religion or science can claim to be "truth." Both are metaphors, ways of organizing the chaos of existance into coheseve, self-consistant wholes.

And both outlooks have their uses. They are particularly HUMAN arts, ways of dealing with information. Science (usually) deals with the tangible and physical, whereas religions tend to deal (often poorly) with the intangible
and emotive.

That's it for now.

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
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Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to Spiffwiggler on Fri Sep 28 2007 18:02:00

Listen, everyone has faith to some degree. It is simply a matter of how much faith you have, and what you put it in. Evolutionists believe that w evolved from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were created as far as I can tell. Some people believe that we just poppe into existance. Again this requires a large amount of faith. Why is it so hard for you to believe that possibly, just possibly you were created for certain purpose by a Supernatural creative God? It is very narrow-minded believe that everything must be explained. I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but I am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination. I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or the Moon in place, but they are staying up the in space right? Not floating away or crashing down on top of us. What a s and boring world you must live in to not be filled with wonder and imagination. I can tell you this, I would not want an existence like this

You really do need to read some Richard Dawkins. You clearly are lacking in serious knowledge when it comes to evolution if you think it requires a larg leap of faith than to believe in a tyrannical self-absorbed xenophobic misogynistic omnipotent omniscient omnipresent deity that manifests a son of his own spirit to send to a planet of heathens so they will deny and crucify him to appease said deity; the same deity that actually created the heathens in the first place and defined sin and cursed all of mankind to be born into it because of a mistake in his own creation; the same deity that wants to gi his creation the gift of a brain and logic yet requires you to suspend it to accept his existence; the same deity that wants you to believe that the Eart is only 6 thousands years old in spite of mountains of evidence. I will suggest "The Selfish Gene", "River out of Eden" and "The Blind Watchmaker" t clear up some of your confusion.

You don't need to entertain delusion to have an imagination; and you really shouldn't imply that because one doesn't believe in "God" they must not have an imagination. It is very narrow-minded to think that your God is the "rig one" or the only one, or that people of other faiths are misguided.

Furthermore, you are trying to support your belief in God by dragging your imagination into it? I think you're onto something here...

Yeah, I never saw this attack coming. To quote a great Charachter in a great movie: "The angry man opens his mouth and shuts his eyes."

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: How to Believe in God
By: Dali's Llama to Daemus on Fri Sep 28 2007 23:48:00

Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to All on Fri Sep 28 2007 13:36:00

This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.

I mostly agree with you. Except that science does the same thing - just loo at the resources wasted on M-theory, and SETI, and other such stuff.

It's all a metaphor, man! Both ways of looking at things show the human weakness of looking for authorities to provide the answers to life.

I have nothing against science, don't get me wrong, but I do have issues wit untestable theories being called scientific... the nature of science is tha it builds theories based on empirical, replicable evidence.

A great deal of science, especially under the peer-review publication system has a tendancy toward scholasticism, much as religion does. It's truth by authority, as opposed to the evidence of the senses.

But NEITHER religion or science can claim to be "truth." Both are metaphors ways of organizing the chaos of existance into coheseve, self-consistant wholes.

And both outlooks have their uses. They are particularly HUMAN arts, ways o dealing with information. Science (usually) deals with the tangible and physical, whereas religions tend to deal (often poorly) with the intangible and emotive.

That's it for now.

Surreality is just an illusion.

You will find, if you haven't already, that there are those here who will accuse you and attempt to shut down any comment that you make if you make statements like this. I know that this is a religious debate or discussion forum, however, there seem to be very few people here who adhere only to the religion of science, and anything that is oppesed to this in even the slightest way will get you labeled as a whackjob. So just be caustious of the things you say. Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Daemus on Fri Sep 28 2007 13:13:00

Faith does not need to be, and cannot be proven or disproved by Scientific, any other method.

This is true. Metaphors aren't provable. They don't need to be proven, but rather experienced, and used where applicable for communication purposes.

By its sheer definition, it is a belief.

This argument is pretty shakey. Sure, according to dictionarydotcom it is,
but try looking up faith in Britannica and see whether so simplistic a definition comes to mind. Once again, a metaphor... defining faith is like deconstructing even a simple metaphor like "she is the wind." You could fill pages with ideas it suggests, but it really means nothing concrete.

Listen, everyone has faith to some degree.

Really? Where do you store yours? If, as you went to such great pains to demonstrate above, faith = belief, then how can anyone HAVE such a thing?

Once again, just a metaphor to convey emotional information. Nothing more, nothing less.

Evolutionists believe that we evolve
from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were create as far as I can tell.

Except that evolutionists don't 'believe' that... it's currently the best available theory to explain the evidence supplied by the universe. Science
is a very useful metaphor-building machine, just like religion.

Some people believe that we just popped into existance

Like Creationists? And Big Bang cosmologists?

It is very narrow-minded to believe that
everything must be explained.

Then all humans are narrow-minded. Isn't the first bit of Genesis an explanation of why things exist?

I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but

am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense of imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination.

This is true. Faith is a metaphor, one of the primary tasks the imagination
of the human mind is used for.


I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or

the Moon in place, but they are staying up there in space right? Not floatin away or crashing down on top of us. What a sad and boring world you must liv in to not be filled with wonder and imagination.

Wonder and imagination can take on many forms. You don't think that Darwin required imagination to sum up the outlooks on evolution of his times?

So did the ancient Hebrews, when they dreamed up Jehovah. And the Hindus, Brahman. And Einstein, relativity. And so on.

I can tell you this, I woul
not want an existence like this.

That's a choice - but not an argument that supports the choice.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

Out of curiousity, what church, Reverand? Obviously one of the
Christian-based ones...


Surreality is just an illusion.

---
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Re: Faith
By: Dali's Llama to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 00:12:00

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Daemus on Fri Sep 28 2007 13:13:00

Faith does not need to be, and cannot be proven or disproved by Scientifi any other method.

This is true. Metaphors aren't provable. They don't need to be proven, but rather experienced, and used where applicable for communication purposes.

By its sheer definition, it is a belief.

This argument is pretty shakey. Sure, according to dictionarydotcom it is, but try looking up faith in Britannica and see whether so simplistic a definition comes to mind. Once again, a metaphor... defining faith is like deconstructing even a simple metaphor like "she is the wind." You could fil pages with ideas it suggests, but it really means nothing concrete.

Listen, everyone has faith to some degree.

Really? Where do you store yours? If, as you went to such great pains to demonstrate above, faith = belief, then how can anyone HAVE such a thing?

Once again, just a metaphor to convey emotional information. Nothing more, nothing less.

Evolutionists believe that we evolve
from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were cre as far as I can tell.

Except that evolutionists don't 'believe' that... it's currently the best available theory to explain the evidence supplied by the universe. Science is a very useful metaphor-building machine, just like religion.

Some people believe that we just popped into existance

Like Creationists? And Big Bang cosmologists?

It is very narrow-minded to believe that
everything must be explained.

Then all humans are narrow-minded. Isn't the first bit of Genesis an explanation of why things exist?

I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but

am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense of imagination? Not say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along t same lines as imagination.

This is true. Faith is a metaphor, one of the primary tasks the imagination of the human mind is used for.

I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or

the Moon in place, but they are staying up there in space right? Not floa away or crashing down on top of us. What a sad and boring world you must in to not be filled with wonder and imagination.

Wonder and imagination can take on many forms. You don't think that Darwin required imagination to sum up the outlooks on evolution of his times?

So did the ancient Hebrews, when they dreamed up Jehovah. And the Hindus, Brahman. And Einstein, relativity. And so on.

I can tell you this, I woul
not want an existence like this.

That's a choice - but not an argument that supports the choice.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

Out of curiousity, what church, Reverand? Obviously one of the Christian-based ones...

Surreality is just an illusion.

Yes, a Christian one. Evangelical, although I do not currently Pastor a flock of my own, I work primarily in Youth, Outreach, Prison and Homebound, Music and Prison Ministries. I am not saying that any of those other things don't take imagination, and I do believe that people are very narrow minded, but I believe that a vast majority, and know it to be true in the US, believe that there is at least the possibility that other sources are possible for existance. Most of the other people here, however, will not even entertain this thought.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

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Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Daemus on Sat Sep 29 2007 03:26:00

Yeah, I never saw this attack coming.

I'm surprised, given the number of times you've taken a licking in this
forum!

To quote a great Charachter in a great movie: "The angry man opens his mouth and shuts his eyes."

Sorry, but The Simpsons Movie is not an authorative source.

---
Playing: "Love ain't for keeping" by "The Who" from the "Who's next" album.
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Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Dali's Llama on Sat Sep 29 2007 03:31:00

Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.

You least of all!

---
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Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 11:57 am

Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.

Trying to equate religion with science and vice versa is ridiculous. That's why(those of us WHO believe) have FAITH.
I also believe that "religion" is man-made.

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

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Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Dali's Llama on Sat Sep 29 2007 04:31:00

You will find, if you haven't already, that there are those here who will accuse you and attempt to shut down any comment that you make if you make statements like this. I know that this is a religious debate or discussion forum, however, there seem to be very few people here who adhere only to the religion of science, and anything that is oppesed to this in even the slight way will get you labeled as a whackjob. So just be caustious of the things y say. Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

I do. The secret is to only respond to points that are worth discussion.

Oh, and as a matter of courtesy, could you please refrain from quoting an entire message, when making a tangent point? A few lines would easily
suffice, and save some wear and tear on my keyboard... thanks.

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
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Re: How to Believe in God
By: Ralph Smole to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 13:38:00

Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 11:57 am

Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.

Trying to equate religion with science and vice versa is ridiculous. That's why(those of us WHO believe) have FAITH.
I also believe that "religion" is man-made.

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will be people from all religions in Hell.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 05:56 pm

Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will be people from all religions in Hell.

Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churches will be first in line.

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

Re: discussion.
By: Dali's Llama to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 12:44:00

Oh, and as a matter of courtesy, could you please refrain from quoting an entire message, when making a tangent point? A few lines would easily suffice, and save some wear and tear on my keyboard... thanks.

It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before his
God was invented!

---
Playing: "Shine On" by "James Blunt" from the "All The Lost Souls" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before his God was invented!

But, he doesn't follow any religion! He follows the laws as set out in -- oh, who am I kidding here? It's all religion. He even admitted that he is aware of how the scriptures were altered numerous times as they made their way to the printing presses. Some word of God...

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With regards to the social ramifications;

Ralph Smole wrote to Spiffwiggler <=-

Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 05:56 pm

Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will be people from all religions in Hell.

Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churches will be first in line.

No, Ralph. No one is going to Hell. Unless it's Michigan.

Hell is man-made also.



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
( F | i | n | n | i | g | a | n | n )
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/


... I don't get out much, so I read alot. - Pilot
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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Re: discussion.
By: Dali's Llama to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 12:44:00


Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then respond, then another. I need to get a new one.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

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þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: discussion.
By: Spiffwiggler to Dali's Llama on Sat Sep 29 2007 21:46:00

Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then respond, the another. I need to get a new one.

What is it? edlin?

---
Playing: "Oh How The Years Go By" by "Vanessa Williams"
from the "Greatest Hits: The First Ten Years" album.
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Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 23:03:00

With regards to the social ramifications;

Ralph Smole wrote to Spiffwiggler <=-

Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 05:56 pm

Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will people from all religions in Hell.

Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churches will be first in line.

No, Ralph. No one is going to Hell. Unless it's Michigan.

Hell is man-made also.

Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I was to believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

With regards to the social ramifications;

Spiffwiggler wrote to Dali's Llama <=-

Re: discussion.
By: Dali's Llama to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 12:44:00

Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then
respond, then another. I need to get a new one.

Doesn't it let you go back up the page to insert text?

What are you useing anyway?

I use QWK, Multimail and Qedit... keeps the OLD SCHOOL feeling going.



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
( F | i | n | n | i | g | a | n | n )
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/


... Most expensive thing in the world: a girl that's free for the evening.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ Synchronet þ Bits-N-Bytes - bnb.dtdns.net / bnb.synchro.net

With regards to the social ramifications;

Spiffwiggler wrote to Finnigann <=-

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 23:03:00

With regards to the social ramifications;

Ralph Smole wrote to Spiffwiggler <=-

Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 05:56 pm

Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will people from all religions in Hell.

Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churches will be first in line.

No, Ralph. No one is going to Hell. Unless it's Michigan.

Hell is man-made also.

Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I was to believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.

^^
Is this a reference
to Michigan? If so,
it's MI.

And if that is the
case, then I can
say, you ain't seen
nothing yet.

And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.

BOO!




_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
( F | i | n | n | i | g | a | n | n )
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/


... Chopped cabbage: It's not just a good idea, it's the slaw!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ Synchronet þ Bits-N-Bytes - bnb.dtdns.net / bnb.synchro.net

Re: discussion.
By: Angus McLeod to Dali's Llama on Sat Sep 29 2007 21:24:00

Oh, and as a matter of courtesy, could you please refrain from quoting an entire message, when making a tangent point? A few lines would easily suffice, and save some wear and tear on my keyboard... thanks.

It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before his God was invented!

That's a little out of line, don't you think?

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: discussion.
By: Spiffwiggler to Dali's Llama on Sat Sep 29 2007 22:46:00

Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then respond, the another. I need to get a new one.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

Hey, no problem. So, where were we?

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Re: discussion.
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 07:22:00

Doesn't it let you go back up the page to insert text?

What are you useing anyway?

I use QWK, Multimail and Qedit... keeps the OLD SCHOOL feeling going.

Not that I am aware of. Just using the Plain Jane Synch Editor.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:17:00

Is this a reference
to Michigan? If so,
it's MI.

And if that is the
case, then I can
say, you ain't seen
nothing yet.

And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.

BOO!

Ummm. No, MA would be the abbreviation for Massachusetts, where I currently reside. And Hell is as real as anyplace on Earth.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: discussion.
By: Dali's Llama to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:45:00

Re: discussion.
By: Spiffwiggler to Dali's Llama on Sat Sep 29 2007 22:46:00

Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then respond, another. I need to get a new one.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

Hey, no problem. So, where were we?

Surreality is just an illusion.

Lost my train of thought. Talking about Hell if we are following the same thread as Finnegan. And also you stated that religion was a metaphor I believe. -Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Finnigann on Sun Sep 30 2007 04:26 am

Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I was believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.

Ever been to Detroit?

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

With regards to the social ramifications;

Spiffwiggler wrote to Finnigann <=-

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:17:00

Is this a reference
to Michigan? If so,
it's MI.

And if that is the
case, then I can
say, you ain't seen
nothing yet.

And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.

BOO!

Ummm. No, MA would be the abbreviation for Massachusetts, where I currently reside. And Hell is as real as anyplace on Earth.

Apparently THESE folks think they have a better claim than others.

http://www.hell2u.com/




_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
( F | i | n | n | i | g | a | n | n )
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/


... RED ALERT!!!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ Synchronet þ Bits-N-Bytes - bnb.dtdns.net / bnb.synchro.net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Ralph Smole to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 06:23 pm

Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I was believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.

Ever been to Detroit?

I can vouch for that. I live 35 miles northwest of that hell hole. Its not far enough.


Jason - W8ZZU

Total Logged Contacts = 1054

Last Contact - W5ROK - 20 Meters SSB - Location, TX, USA. 9/30/07 at 19:10 UTC


---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:18 pm

http://www.hell2u.com/

I also live about 20 miles east of that dump. Also not far enough.


Jason - W8ZZU

Total Logged Contacts = 1054

Last Contact - W5ROK - 20 Meters SSB - Location, TX, USA. 9/30/07 at 19:10 UTC


---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Finnigann on Sun Sep 30 2007 04:26:00

No, Ralph. No one is going to Hell. Unless it's Michigan.

Hell is man-made also.

Hell is not man-made.

Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of
man.

And a great money-maker, to boot!

---
Playing: "The Ancient / Giants Under The Sun" by "Yes"
from the "Tales From Topographic Oceans" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:17:00

And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.

BOO!

Who are you? The Angel Caspar?

---
Playing: "The Ancient / Giants Under The Sun" by "Yes"
from the "Tales From Topographic Oceans" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: discussion.
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:44:00

Oh, and as a matter of courtesy, could you please refrain from quoting entire message, when making a tangent point? A few lines would easily suffice, and save some wear and tear on my keyboard... thanks.

It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before his God was invented!

That's a little out of line, don't you think?

Lines up perfectly, here. Maybe you have a problem with your mail-reader?

---
Playing: "Cherry Blue Skies" by "Thicke" from the "A Beautiful World" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:18 pm

Is this a reference to Michigan? If so, it's MI. And if that is the case, then I can say, you ain't seen nothing yet.
And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child

like mentalities.

BOO!

Ummm. No, MA would be the abbreviation for Massachusetts, where I currently reside. And Hell is as real as anyplace on Earth.

Apparently THESE folks think they have a better claim than others.
http://www.hell2u.com/

Ahh.. Hell, Michigan. I've been there. Gets pretty cold in the winter. :)


Piper Christian
KC8TEZ


---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 09:56 am

Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of
man.

So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ


---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: KC8TEZ to Angus McLeod on Sun Sep 30 2007 10:55 pm

Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of man.

So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...

"Where do bad people go when they die"?
"They don't go to heaven where the angels fly"
"They go to a lake of fire and fry"
"See them again 'till the fourth of July"

Hey Piper wanna go bowling? (inside joke).


Jason - W8ZZU

Total Logged Contacts = 1054

Last Contact - W5ROK - 20 Meters SSB - Location, TX, USA. 9/30/07 at 19:10 UTC


---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Nirvana :)
By: W8ZZU to KC8TEZ on Sun Sep 30 2007 11:04 pm

Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind
of man.

So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...

"Where do bad people go when they die"?
"They don't go to heaven where the angels fly"
"They go to a lake of fire and fry"
"See them again 'till the fourth of July"
Hey Piper wanna go bowling? (inside joke).

Dude, I wanted to find and KILL the person who made that juke box play that over and over (no more inside joke anymore). How annoying was that?

Although, bowling would be fun (without that stupid song).

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ


---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...

Now you are getting into the fundamental questions that I believe influenced man to invent (imagine?) the afterlife. The fear of the unknown is a very powerful and illusory factor in our lives.

For an excellent take on why man conjured up the gods from his imagination, take a look at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTOzM2-jxyg

---
þ Synchronet þ Thwap.net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Ralph Smole to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 18:23:00

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Finnigann on Sun Sep 30 2007 04:26 am

Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I w believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.

Ever been to Detroit?

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

Yeah. The Greyhound Bus Station!!
-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 20:18:00

With regards to the social ramifications;

Spiffwiggler wrote to Finnigann <=-

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:17:00

Is this a reference
to Michigan? If so,
it's MI.

And if that is the
case, then I can
say, you ain't seen
nothing yet.

And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.

BOO!

Ummm. No, MA would be the abbreviation for Massachusetts, where I currently reside. And Hell is as real as anyplace on Earth.

Apparently THESE folks think they have a better claim than others.

http://www.hell2u.com/

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
( F | i | n | n | i | g | a | n | n )
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/

... RED ALERT!!!

Too Funny!!
-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

---
þ Synchronet þ SpiffWiggler BBS *telnet://nexxus1.synchro.net* Taunton, MA

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: KC8TEZ to Angus McLeod on Sun Sep 30 2007 22:55:00

Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of man.

So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...

I was just about to say, I rot and seep slowly into the ground to nourish
the roots of some future guava tree.

Other than that, where does the image in a TV fo when you switch it off? Where do the Zerg and the Protoss go when you end the game? When I die,
the electrical activity that constitutes my life will cease, and so will
I.

---
Playing: "Brandenburg Concerto #3 in G Major - I Allegro" by "Wendy Carlos"
from the "Switched-on Bach" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: discussion.
By: Spiffwiggler to Dali's Llama on Sun Sep 30 2007 16:53:00

Hey, no problem. So, where were we?

Surreality is just an illusion.

Lost my train of thought. Talking about Hell if we are following the same thread as Finnegan. And also you stated that religion was a metaphor I belie -Rev. Michael E. Washburn

Yes. And I'm sticking to that, until some further evidence comes to light. Religion, Science, Politics, Economics... all are metaphors for the shifting patterns of energy that we call existance.

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 10:56:00

Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of
man.

And a great money-maker, to boot!

Yes and no. It's more like legend - fiction based on happenstances in real life. These concepts are not so much fictional as allegoric, displaying the archetypal patterns of humanity.

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: discussion.
By: Angus McLeod to Dali's Llama on Sun Sep 30 2007 23:17:00

It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before God was invented!

That's a little out of line, don't you think?

Lines up perfectly, here. Maybe you have a problem with your mail-reader?

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Seriously, religious debate can be enlightening and entertaining - provided
we don't jump to personal attacks in the attempt to make a point.

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to KC8TEZ on Mon Oct 01 2007 04:52 am

So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...

Now you are getting into the fundamental questions that I believe
influenced man to invent (imagine?) the afterlife. The fear of the unknown is a very powerful and illusory factor in our lives.

Way to deftly maneuver past my question without answering it. I can't look at the utube thing because the computer I use to read my BBS messages doesn't have sound. BUT!!! Wednesday my laptop comes back from repair and then I'll be able to hear sound again. :) Sooooo....you gonna answer my question or no?

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ


---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to KC8TEZ on Mon Oct 01 2007 08:23 am

So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...

I was just about to say, I rot and seep slowly into the ground to nourish the roots of some future guava tree.
Other than that, where does the image in a TV fo when you switch it off? Where do the Zerg and the Protoss go when you end the game? When I die,
the electrical activity that constitutes my life will cease, and so will
I.

At least YOU answered my question. I'm not sure anyone's gonna wanna know where I plan to go upon my expiration...

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ


---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

With regards to the social ramifications;

Angus McLeod wrote to Finnigann <=-

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:17:00

And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.

BOO!

Who are you? The Angel Caspar?

I hadn't picked my Hallow'een costume yet.

What was the ghost that wore a Derby hat and spoke with a Brooklyn
accent (as if to be a toughie)? Always giving Casper a hard time...



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
( F | i | n | n | i | g | a | n | n )
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/


... Not to be rude, but I'm typing with hands that just scratched my butt.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
þ Synchronet þ Bits-N-Bytes - bnb.dtdns.net / bnb.synchro.net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to KC8TEZ on Mon Oct 01 2007 09:23:00

Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of man.

So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burn and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...

I was just about to say, I rot and seep slowly into the ground to nourish the roots of some future guava tree.

Other than that, where does the image in a TV fo when you switch it off? Where do the Zerg and the Protoss go when you end the game? When I die,
the electrical activity that constitutes my life will cease, and so will
I.

Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is what is this
*I* to which everyone is referring?

Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy. To equate my selfdom with my biological elements is fallacy, as every moment cells are dying, to be replaced with new ones. However, the pattern underlying the material stuff of my body persists, in the overall biological system.

As for spirit/consciousness, it seems mostly to be an emergent meta-pattern,
an expression of the complexity of the system that is me. So, when the
system disappates, it seems a fair assumtion to expect the spirit (choose
your favorite term) to disappate with it.

Then again, I may well have it backwards - it could be that the spiritual pattern that I identify as myself is what drives the biological elements of
my body to assemble themselves into my physical form...

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Mon Oct 01 2007 05:20 am

Yeah. The Greyhound Bus Station!!

Must've been doing some real HEAVY praying to make it out alive :-)

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

Way to deftly maneuver past my question without answering it. I can't look at the utube thing because the computer I use to read my BBS messages doesn't have sound. BUT!!! Wednesday my laptop comes back from repair and then I'll be able to hear sound again. :) Sooooo....you gonna answer my question or no?

I tried to start up a conversation about the origins of the afterlife. The question was not directed at me, so I did not answer it.

However, I guess I can answer your question since you've specifically asked me now. The only thing that I can be sure of is that my body will decay, and my loved ones will know that I want to be cremated. I don't have reason to believe anything further will happen, so it does not concern me enough to entertain how I might live forever in some other plane. I see that as just a psychological shortcut that people use to answer a question that is, in theory, impossible to answer; a way for people to come to grips with the unknown.

---
þ Synchronet þ Thwap.net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 10:00:00

BOO!

Who are you? The Angel Caspar?

I hadn't picked my Hallow'een costume yet.

What was the ghost that wore a Derby hat and spoke with a Brooklyn
accent (as if to be a toughie)? Always giving Casper a hard time...

I remember the ghost in the doiby! Can't remember his name, tho...



---
Playing: "L'ami Caouette" by "Serge Gainsbourg"
from the "Serge Gainsbourg" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 14:21:00

Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy.

That's your theory and I have not yet acknowledged it's validity.

---
Playing: "Couleur Café" by "Serge Gainsbourg"
from the "Serge Gainsbourg" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 02:21 pm

I.

Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is what is this *I* to which everyone is referring?
Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy. To equate my selfdom with my biological elements is fallacy, as every moment cells are dying, to be replaced with new ones. However, the pattern underlying the material stuff of my body persists, in the overall
biological system.
As for spirit/consciousness, it seems mostly to be an emergent
meta-pattern, an expression of the complexity of the system that is me.
So, when the system disappates, it seems a fair assumtion to expect the spirit (choose your favorite term) to disappate with it.
Then again, I may well have it backwards - it could be that the spiritual pattern that I identify as myself is what drives the biological elements of my body to assemble themselves into my physical form...

Jeez! Talk about making everything complicated. You should be in politics man.

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to KC8TEZ on Tue Oct 02 2007 12:03 am

Way to deftly maneuver past my question without answering it. I can't look at the utube thing because the computer I use to read my BBS messages doesn't have sound. BUT!!! Wednesday my laptop comes back
from repair and then I'll be able to hear sound again. :)
Sooooo....you gonna answer my question or no?

I tried to start up a conversation about the origins of the afterlife. The question was not directed at me, so I did not answer it.

The only reason I said you weren't answering my question was because you replied to me and didn't answer the question I'd asked. No biggie though.

However, I guess I can answer your question since you've specifically asked me now. The only thing that I can be sure of is that my body will decay, and my loved ones will know that I want to be cremated. I don't have
reason to believe anything further will happen, so it does not concern me enough to entertain how I might live forever in some other plane. I see that as just a psychological shortcut that people use to answer a question that is, in theory, impossible to answer; a way for people to come to grips with the unknown.

So that whole "shaft of light" thing that some people who've said they think they've had a near death experience have claimed to have seen isn't something you think is for real?

My "uncle's" (he wasn't really related to me but anyway) mother was in the process of dying and during this time she'd say things out loud such as "You're so beautiful". This wasn't something directed to anyone around her in the physical sense, it was believed she could see and was speaking to angels. I wasn't around when this was going on so I can't give you my opinion of the situation, only what I was told by my "aunt" and "uncle".

Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or do you want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Afterlife?
By: Angus McLeod to Dali's Llama on Mon Oct 01 2007 23:16:00

By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 14:21:00

Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy.

That's your theory and I have not yet acknowledged it's validity.

Fair enough. However, at least my "theory" is in line with empirical
evidence - namely physics, and biology.

My metaphysical arguments are based entirely on provable physical evidence - unlike "afterlife" theories based on religious mysticism (or worse, dogma).

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

So that whole "shaft of light" thing that some people who've said they think they've had a near death experience have claimed to have seen isn't something you think is for real?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/near-death-experience3.htm

I think I could buy into most, if not all, of what that page proposes on the subject. In fact, I already formed many of those notions independently before I even looked for theories on these types of experience.

Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or do you want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?

I don't really know. I know that I don't like the idea of keeping the ashes of dead people in jars around me, so I wouldn't expect that of anyone else. In fact, for their own emotional growth and well-being, and to help them get a sense of closure, I would prefer that something be done with my ashes so that I'm not hanging around as an eternal decoration.

---
þ Synchronet þ Thwap.net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: KC8TEZ to Daemus on Tue Oct 02 2007 00:43:00

Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or do yo want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a
bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.



---
Playing loud: "Infra-Red" by "Placebo" from the "Meds" album.

---
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 02:21:00

By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 14:21:00

Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy.

That's your theory and I have not yet acknowledged it's validity.

Fair enough. However, at least my "theory" is in line with empirical evidence - namely physics, and biology.

Such as what?

My metaphysical arguments are based entirely on provable physical evidence - unlike "afterlife" theories based on religious mysticism (or worse, dogma).

Afterlife? I thought we were talking about what constitutes "you", not
what might constitute you after you're dead...

---
Playing loud: "Infra-Red" by "Placebo" from the "Meds" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

I'll throw Pat Robertson's front lawn into the hat.

---
þ Synchronet þ Thwap.net

With regards to the social ramifications;

Angus McLeod wrote to Finnigann <=-

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 10:00:00

BOO!

Who are you? The Angel Caspar?

I hadn't picked my Hallow'een costume yet.

What was the ghost that wore a Derby hat and spoke with a Brooklyn
accent (as if to be a toughie)? Always giving Casper a hard time...

I remember the ghost in the doiby! Can't remember his name, tho...

http://www.toonopedia.com/spooky.htm




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Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to KC8TEZ on Tue Oct 02 2007 09:15 am

Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or
do yo want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

Disneyland? :)


Jason - W8ZZU
Total Logged Contacts = 1063
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---
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Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Tue Oct 02 2007 01:36:00

Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is what is th *I* to which everyone is referring?

Jeez! Talk about making everything complicated. You should be in politics man.

Complicated? How is this more complicated than deciphering the cryptic messages of a 4000+ year old tome?

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Angus McLeod to Dali's Llama on Tue Oct 02 2007 10:18:00

That's your theory and I have not yet acknowledged it's validity.

Fair enough. However, at least my "theory" is in line with empirical evidence - namely physics, and biology.

Such as what?

Well, it's a fact that not one single cell of our bodies survives from the
time we're born, to the time we die - unless, of course, we die as toddlers. (biology)

It's a fact that we never experience the world as such, only as filtered through our own habitual perceptions, and processed by our brains. (biology/neurophysics)

It's a fact that all matter is densely packed energy - potential kinetic, for the most part.
(physics)

It's a fact that simple iterative systems form complex emergent patterns,
given time and chance mutation.
(complexity/"chaos" theory, cybernetics [genetic algorithms], biology [dna/evolution])

Do you need more, or will that suffice for now?

My metaphysical arguments are based entirely on provable physical evidenc unlike "afterlife" theories based on religious mysticism (or worse, dogma

Afterlife? I thought we were talking about what constitutes "you", not
what might constitute you after you're dead...

Well, I *did* change the thread header to read "afterlife?", and the post to which I was responding was on that theme. And really, the question of what constitues "me" bears specific relation to any concept of an afterlife. The two are connected, are they not?

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 13:30:00

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

I'll throw Pat Robertson's front lawn into the hat.

I need more than just the coordinates. I need to know whether to drop the ashes WITH the urn or WITHOUT!

---
Playing: "Medication" by "Queens Of The Stoneage"
from the "Lullabies To Paralyze" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Target
By: W8ZZU to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 11:44:00

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

Disneyland? :)

What did Walt do to you?!??

---
Playing: "Everybody Knows That You Are Insane" by "Queens Of The Stoneage"
from the "Lullabies To Paralyze" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 16:09:00

Do you need more, or will that suffice for now?

You are talking a load of shite!

Well, I *did* change the thread header to read "afterlife?", and the post to which I was responding was on that theme. And really, the question of what constitues "me" bears specific relation to any concept of an afterlife. The two are connected, are they not?

Sunshine impinges upon an object and is reflected into my eye. I cannot actually see the object (or any object, for that matter). All I can see
is the light that enters my eye. And that light is not the object itself. Since I can see no objects, I am effectively blind. The rich world of colourful imagery that surrounds me is all a figment of my imagination.

See? I too, can talk rubbish.

---
Playing: "Tangled Up In Plaid" by "Queens Of The Stoneage"
from the "Lullabies To Paralyze" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to Daemus on Tue Oct 02 2007 05:46 pm

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 13:30:00

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

I'll throw Pat Robertson's front lawn into the hat.

I need more than just the coordinates. I need to know whether to drop the ashes WITH the urn or WITHOUT!

Please make numerous ash bombs and take out Swaggart's mansion, John Hagee,Benny Hinn,Creflo Dollar and others.

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

Re: Target
By: Angus McLeod to W8ZZU on Tue Oct 02 2007 05:49 pm

Re: Target
By: W8ZZU to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 11:44:00

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

Disneyland? :)

What did Walt do to you?!??

Probably offered him 10 bucks for a blow-job, along with half the employees at Gayville.

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

Re: Target
By: Angus McLeod to W8ZZU on Tue Oct 02 2007 05:49 pm

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

Disneyland? :)

What did Walt do to you?!??

HA! Nothing. It was just the first thing that popped into my head. :)


Jason - W8ZZU
Total Logged Contacts = 1063
Last Contact: WX35 on 40M SSB. Location: Maryland, USA. 10/2/07 at 02:55 UTC


---
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To: Ralph Smole
.,: This is something about How to Believe in God,
Ralph Smole said it to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 11:23 pm --ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ-ÄÄÄÄ---ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ---ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ--ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churche will be first in line.

you know, i used to watch the 700 club every day at work.


Then came the time of the year when they are asking for pledges from viewers. they had some stories about people that lost both their jobs, lost their houses to the hurricane, but they still gave all the money they had to the church and put their faith in god for it all to work out.

this went on all week, and they wouldnt let up with the stories of peopel
with failed businesses who gave their last dime to the 700 club and so forth.

i couldnt believe that crap. those greedy bastards. these people need this money for food and clothing for their families but bastard pat robertson
wants to buy a new rolls royce this week! so send it all!

---
þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ telnet://vert.synchro.net

Re: Target
By: Ralph Smole to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 06:43 pm

Disneyland? :)

What did Walt do to you?!??

Probably offered him 10 bucks for a blow-job, along with half the employees at Gayville.

Isn't he dead?


Jason - W8ZZU
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Last Contact: WX35 on 40M SSB. Location: Maryland, USA. 10/2/07 at 02:55 UTC


---
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Re: Afterlife?
By: Angus McLeod to Dali's Llama on Tue Oct 02 2007 18:54:00

Do you need more, or will that suffice for now?

You are talking a load of shite!

Interesting how you choose to ignore the points, and instead just lump them
all under "load of shite." Is that because you don't want to show your own lack of ability to grasp them? Or perhaps you just prefer to act that way?

Well, I *did* change the thread header to read "afterlife?", and the post which I was responding was on that theme. And really, the question of wh constitues "me" bears specific relation to any concept of an afterlife. two are connected, are they not?

Sunshine impinges upon an object and is reflected into my eye. I cannot actually see the object (or any object, for that matter). All I can see
is the light that enters my eye. And that light is not the object itself. Since I can see no objects, I am effectively blind. The rich world of colourful imagery that surrounds me is all a figment of my imagination.

To a great degree, it is. Perception is mostly a matter of habit. I could
go on to explain, but you've made it evident that you're not interested in debating - just attacking. Oh well, another thread down the tubes (the story of the internet, in a nutshell). At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...

See? I too, can talk rubbish.

You sure can!


Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 22:23:00

Do you need more, or will that suffice for now?

You are talking a load of shite!

Interesting how you choose to ignore the points, and instead just lump them all under "load of shite."

Your points, individually, boil down to that psycho-babble shit I hear
between 1:00PM and 3:00PM on the radio. "I don't actually exist because I
am a figment of my own imagination". "YOU don't actually exist because
all you are is a series of electrical impulses impinging upon my brain." "Nobody can love you unless you love yourself, so love yourself and
everybody will love you!"

Gaaahhh!

Is that because you don't want to show your own lack of ability to
grasp them? Or perhaps you just prefer to act that way?

Don't use the brown acid.

To a great degree, it is. Perception is mostly a matter of habit. I could go on to explain, but you've made it evident that you're not interested in debating - just attacking.

Debating? Your response to every debate is "It isn't really happening,
you only *think* it's happening" or some other wqually juvenile junk. I
sure don't want to debate with you if that's all you have to offer.

---
Playing: "The Sinking Feeling" by "The The" from the "Soul Mining" album.

---
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Angus McLeod to Dali's Llama on Wed Oct 03 2007 11:39 am

Your points, individually, boil down to that psycho-babble shit I hear between 1:00PM and 3:00PM on the radio. "I don't actually exist because I

---snip---

You guys have radio there? Like 3 stations or what?


Jason - W8ZZU
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Last Contact: WX35 on 40M SSB. Location: Maryland, USA. 10/2/07 at 02:55 UTC


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Re: Afterlife?
By: W8ZZU to Angus McLeod on Wed Oct 03 2007 21:25:00

You guys have radio there?

Of course not. You never heard of shortwave?

---
Playing: "Tonight I'll Take What I Can Get(Bonus)" by "Dashboard Confessional"
from "The Shade of Poison Trees" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Angus McLeod to W8ZZU on Thu Oct 04 2007 12:10 am

You guys have radio there?

Of course not. You never heard of shortwave?

Yeah... I used to listen to "Satan Radio" on 6955 USB. :)


Jason - W8ZZU
Total Logged Contacts = 1063
Last Contact: WX35 on 40M SSB. Location: Maryland, USA. 10/2/07 at 02:55 UTC


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Re: Afterlife?
By: Angus McLeod to Dali's Llama on Wed Oct 03 2007 12:39:00

between 1:00PM and 3:00PM on the radio. "I don't actually exist because I am a figment of my own imagination". "YOU don't actually exist because
all you are is a series of electrical impulses impinging upon my brain." "Nobody can love you unless you love yourself, so love yourself and everybody will love you!"

That's odd, since most of what I'm speaking, as mentioned before, comes directly from the "hard" sciences - especially physics.

I nevedr claimed that nothing exists - only that we don't perceive existant reality directly.

And I certainly said nothing about love. Oh well.

Is that because you don't want to show your own lack of ability to
grasp them? Or perhaps you just prefer to act that way?

Don't use the brown acid.

Case in point. I guess, then, that Stephen Jay Gould, Roger Penrose,
Immanuel Kant, Karl Popper, etc. were all just burnouts, hmmm?

To a great degree, it is. Perception is mostly a matter of habit. I cou go on to explain, but you've made it evident that you're not interested i debating - just attacking.

Debating? Your response to every debate is "It isn't really happening,
you only *think* it's happening" or some other wqually juvenile junk. I sure don't want to debate with you if that's all you have to offer.

I beg to differ. My point is, still, that it all *is* happening, as an emergent pattern of complexity, built upon simple iterative systems with the element of chance thrown in (see:Heisenberg), over time. However, our perceptions *are* an after-the-fact interpretation of reality, not reality itself.


Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to KC8TEZ on Tue Oct 02 2007 09:15 am

Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or
do yo want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

Chinaman's house? hahaha

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to KC8TEZ on Tue Oct 02 2007 04:01 pm

Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is what
is th *I* to which everyone is referring?

Jeez! Talk about making everything complicated. You should be in politics man.

Complicated? How is this more complicated than deciphering the cryptic messages of a 4000+ year old tome?

Unfortunately, since I didn't quote the whole message from before I forgot what we were talking about and I'm too lazy to go back and find it....

Deciphering 4000+ year old tomes isn't easy, I never said it was, I don't even remember that being part of the converstaion from before (but like I said, I forgot what we were talking about anyway...)


Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to Daemus on Tue Oct 02 2007 05:46 pm

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

I need more than just the coordinates. I need to know whether to drop the ashes WITH the urn or WITHOUT!

If you're dropping them on Chinaman's place, WITH the urn (and preferably on his head, if at all possible).

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Walt Disney
By: W8ZZU to Ralph Smole on Tue Oct 02 2007 08:28 pm

Disneyland? :)

What did Walt do to you?!??

Probably offered him 10 bucks for a blow-job, along with half the employees at Gayville.

Isn't he dead?

Yes he is.

On another somewhat related note, my dad once took care of Walt Disney when he was in the hospital my he (my dad) worked at.

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 10:23 pm

At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...

What happens if Nazis are mentioned???



Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Afterlife?
By: W8ZZU to Angus McLeod on Thu Oct 04 2007 12:41 am

You guys have radio there?

Of course not. You never heard of shortwave?

Yeah... I used to listen to "Satan Radio" on 6955 USB. :)

Remember when we accidentally left the shortwave on and Satan Radio woke us up in the middle of the night. That was so funny!!

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

With regards to the social ramifications;

KC8TEZ wrote to Dali's Llama <=-

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 10:23 pm

At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...

What happens if Nazis are mentioned???

Message thread is complete.



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Re: Walt Disney
By: KC8TEZ to W8ZZU on Thu Oct 04 2007 04:00 pm

On another somewhat related note, my dad once took care of Walt Disney when he was in the hospital my he (my dad) worked at.

...and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)


Jason - W8ZZU
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Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Thu Oct 04 2007 04:02 pm

At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...

What happens if Nazis are mentioned???

Hitler comes back from the dead wearing womens panties and sings showtunes to you while trimming his "Hitler Style" mustache.


Jason - W8ZZU
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Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to W8ZZU on Thu Oct 04 2007 04:03 pm

Yeah... I used to listen to "Satan Radio" on 6955 USB. :)

Remember when we accidentally left the shortwave on and Satan Radio woke us up in the middle of the night. That was so funny!!

NO! That was not funny.. It was scary!


Jason - W8ZZU
Total Logged Contacts = 1063
Last Contact: WX35 on 40M SSB. Location: Maryland, USA. 10/2/07 at 02:55 UTC


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Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: KC8TEZ to Angus McLeod on Thu Oct 04 2007 03:58 pm

If you're dropping them on Chinaman's place, WITH the urn (and preferably on his head, if at all possible).

I wouldn't drop MY ashes on that motherfucker. Nuclear warheads--yes! My ashes HELL NO!

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Thu Oct 04 2007 04:02 pm

What happens if Nazis are mentioned???

The theme music from Hogan's Heroes starts playing and Colonel Klink shows up at your door for bratwurst and weinerschnitzel.

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

Re: Walt Disney
By: W8ZZU to KC8TEZ on Thu Oct 04 2007 07:41 pm

...and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)

Rather take care of Daisy Duke.

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Ralph Smole to KC8TEZ on Thu Oct 04 2007 07:06 pm

If you're dropping them on Chinaman's place, WITH the urn (and
preferably on his head, if at all possible).

I wouldn't drop MY ashes on that motherfucker. Nuclear warheads--yes! My ashes HELL NO!

Might we remind him of the "Manhattan Project"?


Jason - W8ZZU
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Re: Walt Disney
By: Ralph Smole to W8ZZU on Thu Oct 04 2007 07:09 pm

...and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)

Rather take care of Daisy Duke.

Yeah, back in the day style though. Not now! Ewwww!

http://jameshannon.com/ChillerTheatre/images/Chiller2004-CatherineBach-James.jp g


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Re: Walt Disney
By: W8ZZU to Ralph Smole on Thu Oct 04 2007 09:17 pm

Re: Walt Disney
By: Ralph Smole to W8ZZU on Thu Oct 04 2007 07:09 pm

...and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)

Rather take care of Daisy Duke.

Yeah, back in the day style though. Not now! Ewwww!

http://jameshannon.com/ChillerTheatre/images/Chiller2004-CatherineBach-James g

Jason - W8ZZU
Total Logged Contacts = 1063
Last Contact: WX35 on 40M SSB. Location: Maryland, USA. 10/2/07 at 02:55 UT

True. But the new Daisy would do just fine also :-)

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
þ Synchronet þ The Nimbus BBS: nimbus.synchro.net AND www.freewebs.com/ralphsmole

Re: Walt Disney
By: W8ZZU to KC8TEZ on Thu Oct 04 2007 07:41 pm

On another somewhat related note, my dad once took care of Walt Disney when he was in the hospital my he (my dad) worked at.

...and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)

That's right!! Among all the other famous people he either took care of or met while living in Burbank.

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
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Re: Afterlife?
By: Ralph Smole to KC8TEZ on Thu Oct 04 2007 07:08 pm

up at your door for bratwurst and weinerschnitzel.

Jason and I and my family ate at Der Weinerschnitzel in California in 2002. It was fun. :)

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

---
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Thu Oct 04 2007 01:27:00

I beg to differ. My point is, still, that it all *is* happening, as an emergent pattern of complexity, built upon simple iterative systems with the element of chance thrown in (see:Heisenberg), over time. However, our perceptions *are* an after-the-fact interpretation of reality, not reality itself.

Careful! Any more hot air, and you will float away!

---
Playing: "Moving in stereo" by "The Cars" from "The Cars" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Walt Disney
By: Ralph Smole to W8ZZU on Thu Oct 04 2007 21:36:00

True. But the new Daisy would do just fine also :-)

I'd expect this from a sheep-fucker like you!

---
Playing: "All mixed up" by "The Cars" from "The Cars" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!

Re: Walt Disney
By: Angus McLeod to Ralph Smole on Fri Oct 05 2007 01:58 am

I'd expect this from a sheep-fucker like you!

At least I prefer Daisy over Flash.

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

---
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Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Thu Oct 04 2007 16:50:00

Complicated? How is this more complicated than deciphering the cryptic messages of a 4000+ year old tome?

Unfortunately, since I didn't quote the whole message from before I forgot w we were talking about and I'm too lazy to go back and find it....

Deciphering 4000+ year old tomes isn't easy, I never said it was, I don't ev remember that being part of the converstaion from before (but like I said, I forgot what we were talking about anyway...)

s'alright. Take a minute or two to check out http://www.godisimaginary.com

It would save me a whole lot of typing... :>


Surreality is just an illusion.

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Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Thu Oct 04 2007 17:02:00

At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...

What happens if Nazis are mentioned???

It kills any hope of rational discussion, destroying any good debate thread.

Surreality is just an illusion.

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Re: Afterlife?
By: Angus McLeod to Dali's Llama on Fri Oct 05 2007 02:52:00

I beg to differ. My point is, still, that it all *is* happening, as an emergent pattern of complexity, built upon simple iterative systems with element of chance thrown in (see:Heisenberg), over time. However, our perceptions *are* an after-the-fact interpretation of reality, not realit itself.

Careful! Any more hot air, and you will float away!

Sure buddy, what ever you say.

Surreality is just an illusion.

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Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Fri Oct 05 2007 04:56:00

I beg to differ. My point is, still, that it all *is* happening, as a emergent pattern of complexity, built upon simple iterative systems wi element of chance thrown in (see:Heisenberg), over time. However, our perceptions *are* an after-the-fact interpretation of reality, not rea itself.

Careful! Any more hot air, and you will float away!

Sure buddy, what ever you say.

Go iterate a system, you emergent pattern!

Our perceptions are an after-the-fact interpretation of reality? Could anything be more obvious? Do you actually think that such basically fundamental concepts need to be explicitly stated?

What kind of reality interpretation talks that way in real life?

Ooops! Here comes some pontification on the surreality of real life....

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Playing: "Talk" by "Coldplay" from the "X&Y" album.
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Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Ralph Smole to Spiffwiggler on Mon Oct 01 2007 16:21:00

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Mon Oct 01 2007 05:20 am

Yeah. The Greyhound Bus Station!!

Must've been doing some real HEAVY praying to make it out alive :-)

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

Yep. Lottsa Prayer.... Plus we didn't use the bathrooms.

-Rev. Michael E. Washburn

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Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Fri Oct 05 2007 04:42 pm

Yep. Lottsa Prayer.... Plus we didn't use the bathrooms.

Yeah,but probably spent LOTS of quarters watching TV!

Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net

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Re: Afterlife?

By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 02:21 pm

I.

Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is what is this *I* to which everyone is referring?
Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy. To equate my selfdom with my biological elements is fallacy, as every moment cells are dying, to be replaced with new ones. However, the pattern underlying the material stuff of my body persists, in the overall biological system.
As for spirit/consciousness, it seems mostly to be an emergent meta-pattern, an expression of the complexity of the system that is me. So, when the system disappates, it seems a fair assumtion to expect the spirit (choose your favorite term) to disappate with it.
Then again, I may well have it backwards - it could be that the spiritual pattern that I identify as myself is what drives the biological elements of my body to assemble themselves into my physical form...

Jeez! Talk about making everything complicated. You should be in politics man.

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

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þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Yeah, he half way thare, he already scumbag.

tHe ChInAmAn

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þ Synchronet þ HALNET DATAGRID BBS - Home of "The One Man Band"

Re: Re: How to Believe in God

By: Angus McLeod to KC8TEZ on Tue Oct 02 2007 09:15 am

Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or do yo want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

Chinaman's house? hahaha

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

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þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net


hahahaha, not that to smart! What he bomba us when you over with me at my house while I givin it to you agen?


tHe ChInAmAn

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þ Synchronet þ HALNET DATAGRID BBS - Home of "The One Man Band"

Re: Re: How to Believe in God

By: Daemus to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 13:30:00

I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.

I'll throw Pat Robertson's front lawn into the hat.

I need more than just the coordinates. I need to know whether to drop the ashes WITH the urn or WITHOUT!

---
Playing: "Medication" by "Queens Of The Stoneage"

from the "Lullabies To Paralyze" album.
þ Synchronet þ Oh God! It's HIM again..... The guy from The ANJO BBS!


how bout Lat 13°11'37.99"N
Long 59°32'35.51"W
that near streling?


tHe ChInAmAn

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þ Synchronet þ HALNET DATAGRID BBS - Home of "The One Man Band"

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: chinaman to KC8TEZ on Sun Oct 07 2007 06:32 pm

hahahaha, not that to smart! What he bomba us when you over with me at my house while I givin it to you agen?

Don't fucking talk to my wife that way.. This is your final warning.


Jason - W8ZZU
Total Logged Contacts = 1102
Last Contact: W6RFU on 15M SSB. Location: California, USA. 10/7/07 at 21:39 UTC

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Re: Re: How to Believe in God

By: chinaman to KC8TEZ on Sun Oct 07 2007 06:32 pm

hahahaha, not that to smart! What he bomba us when you over with me at my house while I givin it to you agen?

Don't fucking talk to my man wife that way.. This is your final warning.

Jason - W8ZZU
Total Logged Contacts = 1102
Last Contact: W6RFU on 15M SSB. Location: California, USA. 10/7/07 at 21:39 UTC

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þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net


ooooh, i shakit in the boots, ooooh ! Not like tHe ChInAmAn policy !
sumbody threthen my life then anything I do less it OK. She suggestit bomb my house with fat slob Angust , so she get reply less then that, not even cause I nice guy, I not help and suggest kill peeple like she do. Plus nutting for you get nervus, I not likit sloppy second.


tHe ChInAmAn

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þ Synchronet þ HALNET DATAGRID BBS - Home of "The One Man Band"

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to KC8TEZ on Fri Oct 05 2007 04:54 am

At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...

What happens if Nazis are mentioned???

Oh well in that case.... NAZI!!!! :-D

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

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þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Thu Oct 11 2007 01:02:00

At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...

What happens if Nazis are mentioned???

Oh well in that case.... NAZI!!!! :-D

Okay, that's it... Time to whack you with my SPEAR OF DESTINY! :>

Surreality is just an illusion.

---
þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to Spiffwiggler on Fri Sep 28 2007 06:02 pm

Listen, everyone has faith to some degree. It is simply a matter of how much faith you have, and what you put it in. Evolutionists believe that w evolved from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were created as far as I can tell. Some people believe that we just poppe into existance. Again this requires a large amount of faith. Why is it so hard for you to believe that possibly, just possibly you were created for certain purpose by a Supernatural creative God? It is very narrow-minded believe that everything must be explained. I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but I am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination. I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or the Moon in place, but they are staying up the in space right? Not floating away or crashing down on top of us. What a s and boring world you must live in to not be filled with wonder and imagination. I can tell you this, I would not want an existence like this

You really do need to read some Richard Dawkins. You clearly are lacking in serious knowledge when it comes to evolution if you think it requires a larg leap of faith than to believe in a tyrannical self-absorbed xenophobic misogynistic omnipotent omniscient omnipresent deity that manifests a son of his own spirit to send to a planet of heathens so they will deny and crucify him to appease said deity; the same deity that actually created the heathens in the first place and defined sin and cursed all of mankind to be born into it because of a mistake in his own creation; the same deity that wants to gi his creation the gift of a brain and logic yet requires you to suspend it to accept his existence; the same deity that wants you to believe that the Eart is only 6 thousands years old in spite of mountains of evidence. I will suggest "The Selfish Gene", "River out of Eden" and "The Blind Watchmaker" t clear up some of your confusion.

You don't need to entertain delusion to have an imagination; and you really shouldn't imply that because one doesn't believe in "God" they must not have an imagination. It is very narrow-minded to think that your God is the "rig one" or the only one, or that people of other faiths are misguided.

Furthermore, you are trying to support your belief in God by dragging your imagination into it? I think you're onto something here...

Well just for the sake of argument. Evolutionist dont have any proof nor ever will that we evolved. Were is this even logical? We all carry same characteristic of our parents,dont see anyone developing bigger heads or
eyes. People are getting smarter in medicine and other technical fields. But all physical attrubites are the same. Plus faith is something that is given to him that believes, and wishes to receive it.

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Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Ruger to Daemus on Sat Oct 13 2007 11:17 pm

Well just for the sake of argument. Evolutionist dont have any proof nor ever will that we evolved. Were is this even logical? We all carry same characteristic of our parents,dont see anyone developing bigger heads or eyes. People are getting smarter in medicine and other technical fields.
But all physical attrubites are the same. Plus faith is something that is given to him that believes, and wishes to receive it.

First off, by referring to people who agree with evolution as "evolutionists", you're laying your bias right out there. There are no "evolutionists", because it's not a religion. It's a scientific theory, which started as a hypothesis, and through observable evidence has been promoted to the level of theory.

Secondly, if you think that the sum of the evidence for evolution is based on us carrying "some characteristic of our parents", you don't understand it enough to even discuss it. Why don't you put down your Bible and go read some scientific texts on evolution. It's a little more complicated than that.

As far as faith goes, you can keep it. I'll take direct evidence over "faith" any day.

-- MysticOne

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þ Synchronet þ :: The Realm of Dreams :: telnet://bbs.mysticone.com

Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Ruger to Daemus on Sun Oct 14 2007 00:17:00

Well just for the sake of argument. Evolutionist dont have any proof nor eve will that we evolved.

Christians don't even have any *evidence*. Evolution at least is not only falsifiable, but constantly updated with new evidence.

That's the great thing about logical, scientific methods. No theory is
immune to updating, or even scrapping, should it prove false or lacking.

Rational people scrapped christianity as lacking *and* false many years ago.

Were is this even logical? We all carry same
characteristic of our parents,dont see anyone developing bigger heads or eyes.

Really? How is it, then that you can see traits of both mother and father in the face of a child? Remember, the evolutionary process works on the scale
of millions of years, not in the nonsensical 6 days 6000 years ago.

People are getting smarter in medicine and other technical fields. But
all physical attrubites are the same. Plus faith is something that is given him that believes, and wishes to receive it.

All physical attributes are the same? I seem to recall having seen a
plethora of differnt sizes, shapes, and body types....

Of course you are given as much faith as you want. It doesn't require evidence, in fact can't show any, since it's in something that is
*imaginary.*


Surreality is just an illusion.

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þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to KC8TEZ on Thu Oct 11 2007 01:21 pm

At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...

What happens if Nazis are mentioned???

Oh well in that case.... NAZI!!!! :-D

Okay, that's it... Time to whack you with my SPEAR OF DESTINY! :>

Bring it on!

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

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Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Mon Oct 15 2007 23:33:00

Okay, that's it... Time to whack you with my SPEAR OF DESTINY! :>

Bring it on!

Consider yourself WHACKED! (Sorry Jason, but she asked for it).



Surreality is just an illusion.

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Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to KC8TEZ on Tue Oct 16 2007 02:55 am

Okay, that's it... Time to whack you with my SPEAR OF DESTINY! :>

Bring it on!

Consider yourself WHACKED! (Sorry Jason, but she asked for it).

Nope, still here. :) You're going to have to either come over to my house and *actually* whack me or join LORD on our bbs and try to whack me there.

Which reminds me.. no one is playing LORD on our BBS except me and Jason... c'mon people and play with us... There's no one to fight except Jason and he's so far more advanced than I am that there's no point in even trying...

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

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þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Re: Afterlife?
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Tue Oct 16 2007 09:30:00

Nope, still here. :) You're going to have to either come over to my house *actually* whack me or join LORD on our bbs and try to whack me there.

I'll leave it to the pros...

LOUIE! VINNIE! I need ya ta take care a dis problem, see...

Which reminds me.. no one is playing LORD on our BBS except me and Jason... c'mon people and play with us... There's no one to fight except Jason and he so far more advanced than I am that there's no point in even trying...

Hahahah nice segue! I would be glad to, but I'm already winding down my
gaming on other boards, since I'm moving in around a month, and won't be
online for a few months at least.


Surreality is just an illusion.

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þ Synchronet þ [aceshigh.dyn.dhs.org] - Come fly our friendly skies!

Re: Segues...
By: Dali's Llama to KC8TEZ on Tue Oct 16 2007 02:09 pm

Nope, still here. :) You're going to have to either come over to my house *actually* whack me or join LORD on our bbs and try to whack me there.

I'll leave it to the pros...
LOUIE! VINNIE! I need ya ta take care a dis problem, see...

Yeah, Louie and Vinnie... come an get me! :)

Which reminds me.. no one is playing LORD on our BBS except me and Jason... c'mon people and play with us... There's no one to fight except Jason and he so far more advanced than I am that there's no point in
even trying...

Hahahah nice segue! I would be glad to, but I'm already winding down my gaming on other boards, since I'm moving in around a month, and won't be online for a few months at least.

Thanks. :) Have a good move when you do finally do move. :) We'll miss you while you're gone.

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

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þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

To: KC8TEZ
.,: This is something about Afterlife?,
KC8TEZ said it to Dali's Llama on Tue Oct 16 2007 08:30 am --ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ-ÄÄÄÄ---ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ---ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ--ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Which reminds me.. no one is playing LORD on our BBS except me and Jason... c'mon people and play with us... There's no one to fight except Jason and he so far more advanced than I am that there's no point in even trying...

i'm hoping one of the next releases of lord has a server/client structure where we can all link up our bbses to a lord server adn we can all
fight eachother. i think it'd be great.

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Re: Segues...
By: KC8TEZ to Dali's Llama on Tue Oct 16 2007 18:44:00

Yeah, Louie and Vinnie... come an get me! :)

Damn, when taken out of context, that's *very* funny!

Thanks. :) Have a good move when you do finally do move. :) We'll miss y while you're gone.

Awww, shucks.


Surreality is just an illusion.

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Re: Segues...
By: Dali's Llama to KC8TEZ on Wed Oct 17 2007 03:13 am

Yeah, Louie and Vinnie... come an get me! :)

Damn, when taken out of context, that's *very* funny!

I suppose it is...

Thanks. :) Have a good move when you do finally do move. :) We'll miss y while you're gone.

Awww, shucks.

Awww... you're welcome. :)

Piper Christian
KC8TEZ

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þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net

Science often separates itself from religion by stating that Science deals with fact and religion relies on faith....

Consider the following...the big bang theory states that just 'prior' to the big bang (which actually doesn't make a lot of sense) there was nothing...no mass, no space, no time...not a spec of the smallest/microscopic anything...and there was no space, no emptiness...and no time. And from 'this' which actually didn't exist, because there was no `this' came everything...and what is the proof for this? Well, there really is no proof, because the scientific theories can only get us back to a few seconds prior to the BigBang. So actually what science is relying on is faith, in the faith that their theories are true, without having any real proof. Faith is also the basis for religion.
I find this interesting....no matter which way you lean,it ultimately comes down to faith.

What do others think or feel?

Owl


NIGHTOWL BBS
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--//// / / / //|| (O)\ /(O) ||\\ \ \ \ \\\\--
---__/ // /| \_ /V\ _/ |\ \\ \__---
-// / /\_ ------- _/\ \ \\-
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----\ | /----
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/ | \
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night.synchro.net

.

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Re: Faith
By: Owl to All on Mon Feb 06 2012 21:20:00

Consider the following...the big bang theory states that just 'prior' to the big bang (which actually doesn't make a lot of sense) there was nothing...no mass, no space, no time...not a spec of the smallest/microscopic anything... there was no space, no emptiness...and no time. And from 'this' which actua

I haven't yet encountered a theory that adequately addresses this problem, but there have been a number of attempts at doing so. In the end they all tend to come back to some sort of infinite loop, or a time when there was nothing. (If our universe was created out of the remains of another, then where did that other come from? And so forth.) It's frustrating indeed.

didn't exist, because there was no `this' came everything...and what is the proof for this? Well, there really is no proof, because the scientific theories can only get us back to a few seconds prior to the BigBang. So actually what science is relying on is faith, in the faith that their theori are true, without having any real proof. Faith is also the basis for religi

All that a "believer" in the big bang theory needs to decide is whether God set that process in motion or if some as-yet-unexplained phenomenon was responsible.

To choose "God" as the answer is to choose faith. You've now got your final answer to every question. Why did this happen? Because of God! You need never ask another question for as long as you live, because you already "know" the answer.

I don't have "faith" in science. I don't trust that everything it has ever told me is true. A new discovery could be made at any time that totally blows away things that I've accepted as "fact" for most of my life. That's fine by me. I prefer a pursuit of real answers rather than acceptance of hollow assurances. I can accept my own ignorance and the limits of current knowledge. I can accept that what I think is true may in fact be false. I can live without a safety net based on a fairy tale. I simply accept what I feel is the best answer until something else comes along.

I don't believe that there is a God, but I tend to think of myself as an agnostic. I would accept God if it could be proven to me. I can't disprove God as I don't have the means at my disposal to do so. I also can't readily prove that there isn't a magical pink elephant dancing around on the far side of the moon, but I can choose to dismiss it as silliness because, really, it's pretty fucking unlikely.

echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230

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Re: Faith
By: Owl to All on Mon Feb 06 2012 09:20 pm

Science often separates itself from religion by stating that Science deals w fact and religion relies on faith....

Consider the following...the big bang theory states that just 'prior' to the big bang (which actually doesn't make a lot of sense) there was nothing...no mass, no space, no time...not a spec of the smallest/microscopic anything... there was no space, no emptiness...and no time. And from 'this' which actua didn't exist, because there was no `this' came everything...and what is the proof for this? Well, there really is no proof, because the scientific theories can only get us back to a few seconds prior to the BigBang. So actually what science is relying on is faith, in the faith that their theori are true, without having any real proof. Faith is also the basis for religi
I find this interesting....no matter which way you lean,it ultimately comes down to faith.

What do others think or feel?

Owl

The big bang theory doesn't make and presumption about 'before' the big bang.
There was no 'before', as time and space began at the big bang. As Hawking says, asking what was before the big bang is like asking what is north of the north pole.

The problem is the human mind cannot imagine non-existance, so we cannot perceive or imagine what nothing is like. This may be why so many cultures believe in life after death, because it is not possible to imagine non-existance, only existance.

I don't agree that its 'faith' though. Faith is belief in something without evidence. That is different to not knowing or hypothesising.

The evidence that the universe began with sudden expansion is pretty solid, that time and space expanded from a point. Why is speculative, but the big bang theory doesn't explain why, only how.

I blieve there are two possibilities, either the universe exists, or it
doesn't exist, and both possibilities are real. In order for you to percieve it, it does exist. But it also doesn't exist as well, but you don't need to
be there to percieve that. In fact, you CANT perceive the universe not existing.


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þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Faith
By: echicken to Owl on Tue Feb 07 2012 12:30 pm

I haven't yet encountered a theory that adequately addresses this problem, b there have been a number of attempts at doing so. In the end they all tend come back to some sort of infinite loop, or a time when there was nothing. our universe was created out of the remains of another, then where did that other come from? And so forth.) It's frustrating indeed.

If you take the beginning of the big bang as the start of space AND time (and space/time is one entity anyway), then the problem is moot. That is, the universe always existed, it just is changing its thermodynamic state.

Remember, you are within the universe, and the universe is the totatly of all existance, so if you are trying to imaging yourself out its bounds, in space
or time, you are thinking about the problem wrong. You can only be within
the bounds of the unverse, and that means within the current space/time reality, which is bounded at the start by the big bang.

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þ Synchronet þ MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

Re: Faith
By: Boraxman to echicken on Wed Feb 08 2012 18:48:21

If you take the beginning of the big bang as the start of space AND time (an space/time is one entity anyway), then the problem is moot. That is, the universe always existed, it just is changing its thermodynamic state.

Remember, you are within the universe, and the universe is the totatly of al existance, so if you are trying to imaging yourself out its bounds, in space or time, you are thinking about the problem wrong. You can only be within the bounds of the unverse, and that means within the current space/time reality, which is bounded at the start by the big bang.

Yeah, I misused the word "universe" in my post. Of course if it is by definition everything, then there is no "before", "after", "inside" or "outside". It doesn't matter, though; I'm not a physicist or even a particularly intelligent individual, so it's no surprise that I don't really "get" this stuff. My point was that it really doesn't matter if I understand this stuff or not. I don't always need an answer; I don't need "God" to step in where my understanding of facts falters. I can simply accept not (yet) knowing.

echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230

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Re: Faith
By: Boraxman to echicken on Wed Feb 08 2012 18:48:21

Nonsense, the universe didn't always exist. If it did then there would be no Big Bang at all!

M-Theory states that two or more Branes (Membranes, 2 dimensional planes full of matter and energy, mostly hydrogen) collided to caused the Big Bang and caused our universe to form from it by stretching space and time by filling it with matter and energy. There are four dimensions that we can detect, and seven that we cannot detect yet because they are either too small or our human senses cannot adapt to them. Case in point the human eye and brain cannot see the warp in space time that gravity causes. So we don't see gravity wells around the Earth and Moon, we just see them move.

For each and every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so an antimatter universe was created as well. It bends space time in the opposite way so time travels backward relative to our universe and all matter is antimatter in that universe. The key to time travel is to stay in that universe near the antimatter version of a black hole but not too close so that time flows backward fast and then travel back into our matter universe and we'll be coming back in the past. In our matter universe just hang near a matter black hole and time slows down and when we return the universe is in the future and we can travel forward in time that way. This is the Doctor Who model using black holes for time travel and it might just work.

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