Six Easy Steps
1. First, you must want to believe in God.
2. Next, understand that believing in God in the absence of evidence is especially noble.
3. Then, realize that the human ability to believe in God in the absence of evidence might itself constitute evidence for the existence of God.
4. Now consider any need for further evidence (both in yourself and in others) to be a form of temptation, spiritually unhealthy, or a corruption of the intellect.
5. Refer to steps 2-4 as acts of “faith.”
6. Return to 2.
[Copied from http://tinyurl.com/yu4aos]
This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.þ Synchronet þ Thwap.net
---
Listen, everyone has faith to some degree. It is simply a matter of how much faith you have, and what you put it in. Evolutionists believe that we evolved from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were created as far as I can tell. Some people believe that we just popped into existance. Again this requires a large amount of faith. Why is it so hard for you to believe that possibly, just possibly you were created for a certain purpose by a Supernatural creative God? It is very narrow-minded to believe that everything must be explained. I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but I am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense of imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination. I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or the Moon in place, but they are staying up there in space right? Not floating away or crashing down on top of us. What a sad and boring world you must live in to not be filled with wonder and imagination. I can tell you this, I would not want an existence like this.
Six Easy Steps
1. First, you must want to believe in God.
2. Next, understand that believing in God in the absence of evidence is especially noble.
3. Then, realize that the human ability to believe in God in the absence of evidence might itself constitute evidence for the existence of God.
4. Now consider any need for further evidence (both in yourself and in other to be a form of temptation, spiritually unhealthy, or a corruption of the intellect.
5. Refer to steps 2-4 as acts of “faith.”
6. Return to 2.
[Copied from http://tinyurl.com/yu4aos]
This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.
I don't know why people are so arrogant to think that if something is unobservable by "scientific standards" that it can't exist. Like we're even CLOSE to understanding even the things on this planet, let alone the universe.
There is so much more that science DOESN'T understand than there are things that it does.
This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.
Listen, everyone has faith to some degree. It is simply a matter of how much faith you have, and what you put it in. Evolutionists believe that w evolved from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were created as far as I can tell. Some people believe that we just poppe into existance. Again this requires a large amount of faith. Why is it so hard for you to believe that possibly, just possibly you were created for certain purpose by a Supernatural creative God? It is very narrow-minded believe that everything must be explained. I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but I am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination. I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or the Moon in place, but they are staying up the in space right? Not floating away or crashing down on top of us. What a s and boring world you must live in to not be filled with wonder and imagination. I can tell you this, I would not want an existence like this
You really do need to read some Richard Dawkins. You clearly are lacking in serious knowledge when it comes to evolution if you think it requires a larg leap of faith than to believe in a tyrannical self-absorbed xenophobic misogynistic omnipotent omniscient omnipresent deity that manifests a son of his own spirit to send to a planet of heathens so they will deny and crucify him to appease said deity; the same deity that actually created the heathens in the first place and defined sin and cursed all of mankind to be born into it because of a mistake in his own creation; the same deity that wants to gi his creation the gift of a brain and logic yet requires you to suspend it to accept his existence; the same deity that wants you to believe that the Eart is only 6 thousands years old in spite of mountains of evidence. I will suggest "The Selfish Gene", "River out of Eden" and "The Blind Watchmaker" t clear up some of your confusion.
You don't need to entertain delusion to have an imagination; and you really shouldn't imply that because one doesn't believe in "God" they must not have an imagination. It is very narrow-minded to think that your God is the "rig one" or the only one, or that people of other faiths are misguided.
Furthermore, you are trying to support your belief in God by dragging your imagination into it? I think you're onto something here...
Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to All on Fri Sep 28 2007 13:36:00
This, of course, doesn't include the steps whereby you also claim that "supernatural" or "metaphysical" elements are inherently unobservable by scientific standards, and are only experienced on a personal level.
I mostly agree with you. Except that science does the same thing - just loo at the resources wasted on M-theory, and SETI, and other such stuff.
It's all a metaphor, man! Both ways of looking at things show the human weakness of looking for authorities to provide the answers to life.
I have nothing against science, don't get me wrong, but I do have issues wit untestable theories being called scientific... the nature of science is tha it builds theories based on empirical, replicable evidence.
A great deal of science, especially under the peer-review publication system has a tendancy toward scholasticism, much as religion does. It's truth by authority, as opposed to the evidence of the senses.
But NEITHER religion or science can claim to be "truth." Both are metaphors ways of organizing the chaos of existance into coheseve, self-consistant wholes.
And both outlooks have their uses. They are particularly HUMAN arts, ways o dealing with information. Science (usually) deals with the tangible and physical, whereas religions tend to deal (often poorly) with the intangible and emotive.
That's it for now.
Surreality is just an illusion.
Faith does not need to be, and cannot be proven or disproved by Scientific, any other method.
By its sheer definition, it is a belief.
Listen, everyone has faith to some degree.
Evolutionists believe that we evolve
from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were create as far as I can tell.
Some people believe that we just popped into existance
It is very narrow-minded to believe that
everything must be explained.
am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense of imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination.
the Moon in place, but they are staying up there in space right? Not floatin away or crashing down on top of us. What a sad and boring world you must liv in to not be filled with wonder and imagination.
I can tell you this, I woul
not want an existence like this.
-Rev. Michael E. Washburn
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Daemus on Fri Sep 28 2007 13:13:00
Faith does not need to be, and cannot be proven or disproved by Scientifi any other method.
This is true. Metaphors aren't provable. They don't need to be proven, but rather experienced, and used where applicable for communication purposes.
By its sheer definition, it is a belief.
This argument is pretty shakey. Sure, according to dictionarydotcom it is, but try looking up faith in Britannica and see whether so simplistic a definition comes to mind. Once again, a metaphor... defining faith is like deconstructing even a simple metaphor like "she is the wind." You could fil pages with ideas it suggests, but it really means nothing concrete.
Listen, everyone has faith to some degree.
Really? Where do you store yours? If, as you went to such great pains to demonstrate above, faith = belief, then how can anyone HAVE such a thing?
Once again, just a metaphor to convey emotional information. Nothing more, nothing less.
Evolutionists believe that we evolve
from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were cre as far as I can tell.
Except that evolutionists don't 'believe' that... it's currently the best available theory to explain the evidence supplied by the universe. Science is a very useful metaphor-building machine, just like religion.
Some people believe that we just popped into existance
Like Creationists? And Big Bang cosmologists?
It is very narrow-minded to believe that
everything must be explained.
Then all humans are narrow-minded. Isn't the first bit of Genesis an explanation of why things exist?
I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but
am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense of imagination? Not say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along t same lines as imagination.
This is true. Faith is a metaphor, one of the primary tasks the imagination of the human mind is used for.
I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or
the Moon in place, but they are staying up there in space right? Not floa away or crashing down on top of us. What a sad and boring world you must in to not be filled with wonder and imagination.
Wonder and imagination can take on many forms. You don't think that Darwin required imagination to sum up the outlooks on evolution of his times?
So did the ancient Hebrews, when they dreamed up Jehovah. And the Hindus, Brahman. And Einstein, relativity. And so on.
I can tell you this, I woul
not want an existence like this.
That's a choice - but not an argument that supports the choice.
-Rev. Michael E. Washburn
Out of curiousity, what church, Reverand? Obviously one of the Christian-based ones...
Surreality is just an illusion.
Yeah, I never saw this attack coming.
To quote a great Charachter in a great movie: "The angry man opens his mouth and shuts his eyes."
Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.
Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.
You will find, if you haven't already, that there are those here who will accuse you and attempt to shut down any comment that you make if you make statements like this. I know that this is a religious debate or discussion forum, however, there seem to be very few people here who adhere only to the religion of science, and anything that is oppesed to this in even the slight way will get you labeled as a whackjob. So just be caustious of the things y say. Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.
-Rev. Michael E. Washburn
Re: How to Believe in God
By: Angus McLeod to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 11:57 am
Almost noone here wants an honest open discussion about religion and science.
Trying to equate religion with science and vice versa is ridiculous. That's why(those of us WHO believe) have FAITH.
I also believe that "religion" is man-made.
Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net
Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will be people from all religions in Hell.
Oh, and as a matter of courtesy, could you please refrain from quoting an entire message, when making a tangent point? A few lines would easily suffice, and save some wear and tear on my keyboard... thanks.
It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before his God was invented!
With regards to the social ramifications;Ralph Smole wrote to Spiffwiggler <=-
Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 05:56 pm
Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will be people from all religions in Hell.
Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churches will be first in line.
Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then respond, the another. I need to get a new one.
With regards to the social ramifications;Ralph Smole wrote to Spiffwiggler <=-
Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 05:56 pm
Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will people from all religions in Hell.
Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churches will be first in line.
No, Ralph. No one is going to Hell. Unless it's Michigan.
Hell is man-made also.
With regards to the social ramifications;Spiffwiggler wrote to Dali's Llama <=-
Re: discussion.
By: Dali's Llama to Spiffwiggler on Sat Sep 29 2007 12:44:00
Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then
respond, then another. I need to get a new one.
With regards to the social ramifications;Spiffwiggler wrote to Finnigann <=-
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 23:03:00
With regards to the social ramifications;Ralph Smole wrote to Spiffwiggler <=-
Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Sat Sep 29 2007 05:56 pm
Oh, I totally agree Ralph. Religion is man-made. I always say there will people from all religions in Hell.
Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churches will be first in line.
No, Ralph. No one is going to Hell. Unless it's Michigan.^^
Hell is man-made also.
Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I was to believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.
Oh, and as a matter of courtesy, could you please refrain from quoting an entire message, when making a tangent point? A few lines would easily suffice, and save some wear and tear on my keyboard... thanks.
It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before his God was invented!
Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then respond, the another. I need to get a new one.
-Rev. Michael E. Washburn
Doesn't it let you go back up the page to insert text?
What are you useing anyway?
I use QWK, Multimail and Qedit... keeps the OLD SCHOOL feeling going.
Is this a referenceUmmm. No, MA would be the abbreviation for Massachusetts, where I currently reside. And Hell is as real as anyplace on Earth.
to Michigan? If so,
it's MI.
And if that is the
case, then I can
say, you ain't seen
nothing yet.
And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.
BOO!
Re: discussion.
By: Spiffwiggler to Dali's Llama on Sat Sep 29 2007 22:46:00
Yeah, my editor is garbage. Doesn't let me quote one line, then respond, another. I need to get a new one.
-Rev. Michael E. Washburn
Hey, no problem. So, where were we?
Surreality is just an illusion.
Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I was believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.
With regards to the social ramifications;Spiffwiggler wrote to Finnigann <=-
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:17:00
Is this a reference
to Michigan? If so,
it's MI.
And if that is the
case, then I can
say, you ain't seen
nothing yet.
And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.
BOO!
Ummm. No, MA would be the abbreviation for Massachusetts, where I currently reside. And Hell is as real as anyplace on Earth.
Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I was believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.
Ever been to Detroit?
http://www.hell2u.com/
No, Ralph. No one is going to Hell. Unless it's Michigan.
Hell is man-made also.
Hell is not man-made.
And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.
BOO!
Oh, and as a matter of courtesy, could you please refrain from quoting entire message, when making a tangent point? A few lines would easily suffice, and save some wear and tear on my keyboard... thanks.
It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before his God was invented!
That's a little out of line, don't you think?
Ahh.. Hell, Michigan. I've been there. Gets pretty cold in the winter. :)Is this a reference to Michigan? If so, it's MI. And if that is the case, then I can say, you ain't seen nothing yet.like mentalities.
And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
BOO!Apparently THESE folks think they have a better claim than others.
Ummm. No, MA would be the abbreviation for Massachusetts, where I currently reside. And Hell is as real as anyplace on Earth.
http://www.hell2u.com/
Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind ofSo, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...
man.
Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of man.So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...
Dude, I wanted to find and KILL the person who made that juke box play that over and over (no more inside joke anymore). How annoying was that?"Where do bad people go when they die"?Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mindSo, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...
of man.
"They don't go to heaven where the angels fly"
"They go to a lake of fire and fry"
"See them again 'till the fourth of July"
Hey Piper wanna go bowling? (inside joke).
So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Finnigann on Sun Sep 30 2007 04:26 am
Hell is not man-made. And for the record, I have been to Michigan. If I w believe that Hell was a place on Earth, MA would qualify.
Ever been to Detroit?
Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net
With regards to the social ramifications;Spiffwiggler wrote to Finnigann <=-
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:17:00
Is this a reference
to Michigan? If so,
it's MI.
And if that is the
case, then I can
say, you ain't seen
nothing yet.
And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.
BOO!
Ummm. No, MA would be the abbreviation for Massachusetts, where I currently reside. And Hell is as real as anyplace on Earth.
Apparently THESE folks think they have a better claim than others.
http://www.hell2u.com/
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
( F | i | n | n | i | g | a | n | n )
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/
... RED ALERT!!!
Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of man.
So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...
Hey, no problem. So, where were we?
Surreality is just an illusion.
Lost my train of thought. Talking about Hell if we are following the same thread as Finnegan. And also you stated that religion was a metaphor I belie -Rev. Michael E. Washburn
Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of
man.
And a great money-maker, to boot!
It is a requirement of his religion. He's been doing it since before God was invented!
That's a little out of line, don't you think?
Lines up perfectly, here. Maybe you have a problem with your mail-reader?
Way to deftly maneuver past my question without answering it. I can't look at the utube thing because the computer I use to read my BBS messages doesn't have sound. BUT!!! Wednesday my laptop comes back from repair and then I'll be able to hear sound again. :) Sooooo....you gonna answer my question or no?So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned up and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...Now you are getting into the fundamental questions that I believe
influenced man to invent (imagine?) the afterlife. The fear of the unknown is a very powerful and illusory factor in our lives.
At least YOU answered my question. I'm not sure anyone's gonna wanna know where I plan to go upon my expiration...So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burned and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...I was just about to say, I rot and seep slowly into the ground to nourish the roots of some future guava tree.
Other than that, where does the image in a TV fo when you switch it off? Where do the Zerg and the Protoss go when you end the game? When I die,
the electrical activity that constitutes my life will cease, and so will
I.
With regards to the social ramifications;Angus McLeod wrote to Finnigann <=-
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Spiffwiggler on Sun Sep 30 2007 08:17:00
And Hell is a construct used to frighten children and those of child
like mentalities.
BOO!
Who are you? The Angel Caspar?
Heaven, hell, god and the devil, all fictional products of the mind of man.
So, where do YOU go when you die? I mean besides into the ground or burn and kept in a container or spread around somewhere...
I was just about to say, I rot and seep slowly into the ground to nourish the roots of some future guava tree.
Other than that, where does the image in a TV fo when you switch it off? Where do the Zerg and the Protoss go when you end the game? When I die,
the electrical activity that constitutes my life will cease, and so will
I.
Yeah. The Greyhound Bus Station!!
Way to deftly maneuver past my question without answering it. I can't look at the utube thing because the computer I use to read my BBS messages doesn't have sound. BUT!!! Wednesday my laptop comes back from repair and then I'll be able to hear sound again. :) Sooooo....you gonna answer my question or no?
BOO!
Who are you? The Angel Caspar?
I hadn't picked my Hallow'een costume yet.
What was the ghost that wore a Derby hat and spoke with a Brooklyn
accent (as if to be a toughie)? Always giving Casper a hard time...
Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy.
I.Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is what is this *I* to which everyone is referring?
Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy. To equate my selfdom with my biological elements is fallacy, as every moment cells are dying, to be replaced with new ones. However, the pattern underlying the material stuff of my body persists, in the overall
biological system.
As for spirit/consciousness, it seems mostly to be an emergent
meta-pattern, an expression of the complexity of the system that is me.
So, when the system disappates, it seems a fair assumtion to expect the spirit (choose your favorite term) to disappate with it.
Then again, I may well have it backwards - it could be that the spiritual pattern that I identify as myself is what drives the biological elements of my body to assemble themselves into my physical form...
Way to deftly maneuver past my question without answering it. I can't look at the utube thing because the computer I use to read my BBS messages doesn't have sound. BUT!!! Wednesday my laptop comes backI tried to start up a conversation about the origins of the afterlife. The question was not directed at me, so I did not answer it.
from repair and then I'll be able to hear sound again. :)
Sooooo....you gonna answer my question or no?
However, I guess I can answer your question since you've specifically asked me now. The only thing that I can be sure of is that my body will decay, and my loved ones will know that I want to be cremated. I don't have
reason to believe anything further will happen, so it does not concern me enough to entertain how I might live forever in some other plane. I see that as just a psychological shortcut that people use to answer a question that is, in theory, impossible to answer; a way for people to come to grips with the unknown.
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 14:21:00
Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy.
That's your theory and I have not yet acknowledged it's validity.
So that whole "shaft of light" thing that some people who've said they think they've had a near death experience have claimed to have seen isn't something you think is for real?
Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or do you want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?
Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or do yo want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 14:21:00
Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy.
That's your theory and I have not yet acknowledged it's validity.
Fair enough. However, at least my "theory" is in line with empirical evidence - namely physics, and biology.
My metaphysical arguments are based entirely on provable physical evidence - unlike "afterlife" theories based on religious mysticism (or worse, dogma).
I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
With regards to the social ramifications;Angus McLeod wrote to Finnigann <=-
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Finnigann to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 10:00:00
BOO!
Who are you? The Angel Caspar?
I hadn't picked my Hallow'een costume yet.
What was the ghost that wore a Derby hat and spoke with a Brooklyn
accent (as if to be a toughie)? Always giving Casper a hard time...
I remember the ghost in the doiby! Can't remember his name, tho...
Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or
do yo want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?
I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is what is th *I* to which everyone is referring?
Jeez! Talk about making everything complicated. You should be in politics man.
That's your theory and I have not yet acknowledged it's validity.
Fair enough. However, at least my "theory" is in line with empirical evidence - namely physics, and biology.
Such as what?
My metaphysical arguments are based entirely on provable physical evidenc unlike "afterlife" theories based on religious mysticism (or worse, dogma
Afterlife? I thought we were talking about what constitutes "you", not
what might constitute you after you're dead...
I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
I'll throw Pat Robertson's front lawn into the hat.
I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
Disneyland? :)
Do you need more, or will that suffice for now?
Well, I *did* change the thread header to read "afterlife?", and the post to which I was responding was on that theme. And really, the question of what constitues "me" bears specific relation to any concept of an afterlife. The two are connected, are they not?
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Daemus to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 13:30:00
I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
I'll throw Pat Robertson's front lawn into the hat.
I need more than just the coordinates. I need to know whether to drop the ashes WITH the urn or WITHOUT!
Re: Target
By: W8ZZU to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 11:44:00
I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
Disneyland? :)
What did Walt do to you?!??
I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
Disneyland? :)
What did Walt do to you?!??
Yep. Hate to say this, but some of the pastors of the so-called mega-churche will be first in line.
Disneyland? :)
What did Walt do to you?!??
Probably offered him 10 bucks for a blow-job, along with half the employees at Gayville.
Do you need more, or will that suffice for now?
You are talking a load of shite!
Well, I *did* change the thread header to read "afterlife?", and the post which I was responding was on that theme. And really, the question of wh constitues "me" bears specific relation to any concept of an afterlife. two are connected, are they not?
Sunshine impinges upon an object and is reflected into my eye. I cannot actually see the object (or any object, for that matter). All I can see
is the light that enters my eye. And that light is not the object itself. Since I can see no objects, I am effectively blind. The rich world of colourful imagery that surrounds me is all a figment of my imagination.
See? I too, can talk rubbish.
Do you need more, or will that suffice for now?
You are talking a load of shite!
Interesting how you choose to ignore the points, and instead just lump them all under "load of shite."
Is that because you don't want to show your own lack of ability to
grasp them? Or perhaps you just prefer to act that way?
To a great degree, it is. Perception is mostly a matter of habit. I could go on to explain, but you've made it evident that you're not interested in debating - just attacking.
Your points, individually, boil down to that psycho-babble shit I hear between 1:00PM and 3:00PM on the radio. "I don't actually exist because I---snip---
You guys have radio there?
You guys have radio there?
Of course not. You never heard of shortwave?
between 1:00PM and 3:00PM on the radio. "I don't actually exist because I am a figment of my own imagination". "YOU don't actually exist because
all you are is a series of electrical impulses impinging upon my brain." "Nobody can love you unless you love yourself, so love yourself and everybody will love you!"
Is that because you don't want to show your own lack of ability to
grasp them? Or perhaps you just prefer to act that way?
Don't use the brown acid.
To a great degree, it is. Perception is mostly a matter of habit. I cou go on to explain, but you've made it evident that you're not interested i debating - just attacking.
Debating? Your response to every debate is "It isn't really happening,
you only *think* it's happening" or some other wqually juvenile junk. I sure don't want to debate with you if that's all you have to offer.
Once you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container orI'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
do yo want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?
Complicated? How is this more complicated than deciphering the cryptic messages of a 4000+ year old tome?Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is whatJeez! Talk about making everything complicated. You should be in politics man.
is th *I* to which everyone is referring?
I need more than just the coordinates. I need to know whether to drop the ashes WITH the urn or WITHOUT!I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
Isn't he dead?Probably offered him 10 bucks for a blow-job, along with half the employees at Gayville.Disneyland? :)What did Walt do to you?!??
At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...
Yeah... I used to listen to "Satan Radio" on 6955 USB. :)You guys have radio there?Of course not. You never heard of shortwave?
With regards to the social ramifications;KC8TEZ wrote to Dali's Llama <=-
Re: Afterlife?
By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 10:23 pm
At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...
What happens if Nazis are mentioned???
On another somewhat related note, my dad once took care of Walt Disney when he was in the hospital my he (my dad) worked at.
At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...
What happens if Nazis are mentioned???
Yeah... I used to listen to "Satan Radio" on 6955 USB. :)
Remember when we accidentally left the shortwave on and Satan Radio woke us up in the middle of the night. That was so funny!!
If you're dropping them on Chinaman's place, WITH the urn (and preferably on his head, if at all possible).
What happens if Nazis are mentioned???
...and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)
If you're dropping them on Chinaman's place, WITH the urn (and
preferably on his head, if at all possible).
I wouldn't drop MY ashes on that motherfucker. Nuclear warheads--yes! My ashes HELL NO!
...and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)
Rather take care of Daisy Duke.
Re: Walt Disney
By: Ralph Smole to W8ZZU on Thu Oct 04 2007 07:09 pm
...and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)
Rather take care of Daisy Duke.
Yeah, back in the day style though. Not now! Ewwww!
http://jameshannon.com/ChillerTheatre/images/Chiller2004-CatherineBach-James g
Jason - W8ZZU
Total Logged Contacts = 1063
Last Contact: WX35 on 40M SSB. Location: Maryland, USA. 10/2/07 at 02:55 UT
On another somewhat related note, my dad once took care of Walt Disney when he was in the hospital my he (my dad) worked at....and Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard. Thats more important! :)
up at your door for bratwurst and weinerschnitzel.
I beg to differ. My point is, still, that it all *is* happening, as an emergent pattern of complexity, built upon simple iterative systems with the element of chance thrown in (see:Heisenberg), over time. However, our perceptions *are* an after-the-fact interpretation of reality, not reality itself.
True. But the new Daisy would do just fine also :-)
I'd expect this from a sheep-fucker like you!
Complicated? How is this more complicated than deciphering the cryptic messages of a 4000+ year old tome?
Unfortunately, since I didn't quote the whole message from before I forgot w we were talking about and I'm too lazy to go back and find it....
Deciphering 4000+ year old tomes isn't easy, I never said it was, I don't ev remember that being part of the converstaion from before (but like I said, I forgot what we were talking about anyway...)
At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...
What happens if Nazis are mentioned???
I beg to differ. My point is, still, that it all *is* happening, as an emergent pattern of complexity, built upon simple iterative systems with element of chance thrown in (see:Heisenberg), over time. However, our perceptions *are* an after-the-fact interpretation of reality, not realit itself.
Careful! Any more hot air, and you will float away!
I beg to differ. My point is, still, that it all *is* happening, as a emergent pattern of complexity, built upon simple iterative systems wi element of chance thrown in (see:Heisenberg), over time. However, our perceptions *are* an after-the-fact interpretation of reality, not rea itself.
Careful! Any more hot air, and you will float away!
Sure buddy, what ever you say.
Re: Re: How to Believe in God
By: Spiffwiggler to Ralph Smole on Mon Oct 01 2007 05:20 am
Yeah. The Greyhound Bus Station!!
Must've been doing some real HEAVY praying to make it out alive :-)
Dirty Jack Rackham...A.K.A: Ralph Smole
www.bullishmcgee.com
www.ralphsmole.com
nimbus.synchro.net
Yep. Lottsa Prayer.... Plus we didn't use the bathrooms.
Re: Afterlife?By: Dali's Llama to Angus McLeod on Mon Oct 01 2007 02:21 pm
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-NetI.Perhaps the question that bears asking, first and foremost, is what is this *I* to which everyone is referring?
Nearest (I) can tell, what constitues "me" is a pattern of energy. To equate my selfdom with my biological elements is fallacy, as every moment cells are dying, to be replaced with new ones. However, the pattern underlying the material stuff of my body persists, in the overall biological system.
As for spirit/consciousness, it seems mostly to be an emergent meta-pattern, an expression of the complexity of the system that is me. So, when the system disappates, it seems a fair assumtion to expect the spirit (choose your favorite term) to disappate with it.
Then again, I may well have it backwards - it could be that the spiritual pattern that I identify as myself is what drives the biological elements of my body to assemble themselves into my physical form...
Jeez! Talk about making everything complicated. You should be in politics man.
Piper Christian
KC8TEZ
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Re: Re: How to Believe in GodBy: Angus McLeod to KC8TEZ on Tue Oct 02 2007 09:15 am
þ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-NetOnce you're cremated are you going to spend eternity in a container or do yo want your family to "cast you to the wind" so to speak?I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
Chinaman's house? hahaha
Piper Christian
KC8TEZ
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Re: Re: How to Believe in GodBy: Daemus to Angus McLeod on Tue Oct 02 2007 13:30:00
from the "Lullabies To Paralyze" album.I'm building a large, long-range R/C model with GPS/autopilot and a bomb-bay. I'm taking suggestions for targetting coordinates.
I'll throw Pat Robertson's front lawn into the hat.
I need more than just the coordinates. I need to know whether to drop the ashes WITH the urn or WITHOUT!
---
Playing: "Medication" by "Queens Of The Stoneage"
hahahaha, not that to smart! What he bomba us when you over with me at my house while I givin it to you agen?
Re: Re: How to Believe in GodBy: chinaman to KC8TEZ on Sun Oct 07 2007 06:32 pm
hahahaha, not that to smart! What he bomba us when you over with me at my house while I givin it to you agen?
Don't fucking talk to my man wife that way.. This is your final warning.
Jason - W8ZZUþ Synchronet þ Scanner Enthusiasts BBS - scannerbbs.dyndns.org - *Dove-Net
Total Logged Contacts = 1102
Last Contact: W6RFU on 15M SSB. Location: California, USA. 10/7/07 at 21:39 UTC
---
At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...What happens if Nazis are mentioned???
At least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...What happens if Nazis are mentioned???
Oh well in that case.... NAZI!!!! :-D
Listen, everyone has faith to some degree. It is simply a matter of how much faith you have, and what you put it in. Evolutionists believe that w evolved from other species. This takes more faith than believing that we were created as far as I can tell. Some people believe that we just poppe into existance. Again this requires a large amount of faith. Why is it so hard for you to believe that possibly, just possibly you were created for certain purpose by a Supernatural creative God? It is very narrow-minded believe that everything must be explained. I am sure that this will be misconstrued, but I am going to say it anyway, do you not have any sense imagination? Not to say that God or belief in God requires imagingation, but Faith is along the same lines as imagination. I mean, you can't see what is holding the Sun or the Moon in place, but they are staying up the in space right? Not floating away or crashing down on top of us. What a s and boring world you must live in to not be filled with wonder and imagination. I can tell you this, I would not want an existence like this
You really do need to read some Richard Dawkins. You clearly are lacking in serious knowledge when it comes to evolution if you think it requires a larg leap of faith than to believe in a tyrannical self-absorbed xenophobic misogynistic omnipotent omniscient omnipresent deity that manifests a son of his own spirit to send to a planet of heathens so they will deny and crucify him to appease said deity; the same deity that actually created the heathens in the first place and defined sin and cursed all of mankind to be born into it because of a mistake in his own creation; the same deity that wants to gi his creation the gift of a brain and logic yet requires you to suspend it to accept his existence; the same deity that wants you to believe that the Eart is only 6 thousands years old in spite of mountains of evidence. I will suggest "The Selfish Gene", "River out of Eden" and "The Blind Watchmaker" t clear up some of your confusion.
You don't need to entertain delusion to have an imagination; and you really shouldn't imply that because one doesn't believe in "God" they must not have an imagination. It is very narrow-minded to think that your God is the "rig one" or the only one, or that people of other faiths are misguided.
Furthermore, you are trying to support your belief in God by dragging your imagination into it? I think you're onto something here...
Well just for the sake of argument. Evolutionist dont have any proof nor ever will that we evolved. Were is this even logical? We all carry same characteristic of our parents,dont see anyone developing bigger heads or eyes. People are getting smarter in medicine and other technical fields.
But all physical attrubites are the same. Plus faith is something that is given to him that believes, and wishes to receive it.
Well just for the sake of argument. Evolutionist dont have any proof nor eve will that we evolved.
Were is this even logical? We all carry same
characteristic of our parents,dont see anyone developing bigger heads or eyes.
People are getting smarter in medicine and other technical fields. But
all physical attrubites are the same. Plus faith is something that is given him that believes, and wishes to receive it.
Okay, that's it... Time to whack you with my SPEAR OF DESTINY! :>Oh well in that case.... NAZI!!!! :-DAt least nobody has mentioned Nazis yet...What happens if Nazis are mentioned???
Okay, that's it... Time to whack you with my SPEAR OF DESTINY! :>
Bring it on!
Consider yourself WHACKED! (Sorry Jason, but she asked for it).Okay, that's it... Time to whack you with my SPEAR OF DESTINY! :>Bring it on!
Nope, still here. :) You're going to have to either come over to my house *actually* whack me or join LORD on our bbs and try to whack me there.
Which reminds me.. no one is playing LORD on our BBS except me and Jason... c'mon people and play with us... There's no one to fight except Jason and he so far more advanced than I am that there's no point in even trying...
Nope, still here. :) You're going to have to either come over to my house *actually* whack me or join LORD on our bbs and try to whack me there.I'll leave it to the pros...
LOUIE! VINNIE! I need ya ta take care a dis problem, see...
Which reminds me.. no one is playing LORD on our BBS except me and Jason... c'mon people and play with us... There's no one to fight except Jason and he so far more advanced than I am that there's no point inHahahah nice segue! I would be glad to, but I'm already winding down my gaming on other boards, since I'm moving in around a month, and won't be online for a few months at least.
even trying...
Which reminds me.. no one is playing LORD on our BBS except me and Jason... c'mon people and play with us... There's no one to fight except Jason and he so far more advanced than I am that there's no point in even trying...
Yeah, Louie and Vinnie... come an get me! :)
Thanks. :) Have a good move when you do finally do move. :) We'll miss y while you're gone.
Yeah, Louie and Vinnie... come an get me! :)Damn, when taken out of context, that's *very* funny!
Thanks. :) Have a good move when you do finally do move. :) We'll miss y while you're gone.Awww, shucks.
Consider the following...the big bang theory states that just 'prior' to the big bang (which actually doesn't make a lot of sense) there was nothing...no mass, no space, no time...not a spec of the smallest/microscopic anything... there was no space, no emptiness...and no time. And from 'this' which actua
didn't exist, because there was no `this' came everything...and what is the proof for this? Well, there really is no proof, because the scientific theories can only get us back to a few seconds prior to the BigBang. So actually what science is relying on is faith, in the faith that their theori are true, without having any real proof. Faith is also the basis for religi
Science often separates itself from religion by stating that Science deals w fact and religion relies on faith....
Consider the following...the big bang theory states that just 'prior' to the big bang (which actually doesn't make a lot of sense) there was nothing...no mass, no space, no time...not a spec of the smallest/microscopic anything... there was no space, no emptiness...and no time. And from 'this' which actua didn't exist, because there was no `this' came everything...and what is the proof for this? Well, there really is no proof, because the scientific theories can only get us back to a few seconds prior to the BigBang. So actually what science is relying on is faith, in the faith that their theori are true, without having any real proof. Faith is also the basis for religi
I find this interesting....no matter which way you lean,it ultimately comes down to faith.
What do others think or feel?
Owl
I haven't yet encountered a theory that adequately addresses this problem, b there have been a number of attempts at doing so. In the end they all tend come back to some sort of infinite loop, or a time when there was nothing. our universe was created out of the remains of another, then where did that other come from? And so forth.) It's frustrating indeed.
If you take the beginning of the big bang as the start of space AND time (an space/time is one entity anyway), then the problem is moot. That is, the universe always existed, it just is changing its thermodynamic state.
Remember, you are within the universe, and the universe is the totatly of al existance, so if you are trying to imaging yourself out its bounds, in space or time, you are thinking about the problem wrong. You can only be within the bounds of the unverse, and that means within the current space/time reality, which is bounded at the start by the big bang.
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