• Not religious but enjoying church

    From sam@VERT/TTLYNERD to All on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 14:48:16
    Greetings. This forum doesn't appear to be very active, but I hoped to ask
    a question if anyone still watches it. Basically I consider myself
    agnostic, I wasn't raised around any faith or church, and to be honest I've always kinda just poked fun at religion and the concept of it. I had
    friends who were religious, but for me it was more or less one of the many social groups that we just didn't partake in.

    So in the last few years our kids have started attending an Episcopal based school that I actually like! The classes are very good, balanced, and
    though they have chapel a couple times a week it's left in chapel and not brought into the classroom. So no dinosaurs running along side men in
    science class for example. Our community just doesn't have a good track
    record with public schools. After the kids being involved with the school
    for a couple of years we've gotten active in the church.

    My wife was reaffirmed and my daughter has been baptized. Our son is still young to make this decision, and me... well I think they see me as a
    conundrum. I'm very active, I've just started getting a blessing each
    Sunday (never been baptized), and I volunteer as much as I can. We've
    gotten to know the rector and other clergy rather well, and we've started
    to become integrated into the church. I'm the only one though that
    probably hasn't been baptized and I don't keep it a secret though I don't
    go telling everyone. We were taking some classes over the summer with
    other adults from the church when the rector talked about the history of baptism and just asked if anyone hadn't been baptized... assuming not to
    get any hands. Well mine was the only one that went up.

    So to my question I guess. Is it common for someone who's not religious to
    be heavily involved in the church? I was told by the assistant rector once that they were open to everyone regardless of faith, just I couldn't join
    the vestry or some other roles which I'm fine with. But is anyone else in
    this boat or know of anyone who is ? Just seems like I'm the only one in
    our church, so just curious.

    ---
    Synchronet Totallynerd BBS - It doesn't get any nerdier than this - Nashville,TN
  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to sam on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 01:09:56
    Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: sam to All on Tue Jun 26 2018 14:48:16

    So to my question I guess. Is it common for someone who's not religious to be heavily involved in the church? I was told by the assistant rector once that they were open to everyone regardless of faith, just I couldn't join the vestry or some other roles which I'm fine with. But is anyone else in this boat or know of anyone who is ? Just seems like I'm the only one in our church, so just curious.

    I'm entirely an antheist and, while I can't say that I'm "active" in a church, I have taken some part in activities and whatnot. I don't think it's an issue; think of it more as a civic, social, or community organization. As long as they're cool with it, and you're cool with it, then it shouldn't matter whether you're baptized or an official member of their faith or not.

    ---
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  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Derision on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 11:07:43
    Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Derision to sam on Wed Jun 27 2018 01:09:56

    So to my question I guess. Is it common for someone who's not religious be heavily involved in the church? I was told by the assistant rector on that they were open to everyone regardless of faith, just I couldn't join the vestry or some other roles which I'm fine with. But is anyone else in this boat or know of anyone who is ? Just seems like I'm the only one in our church, so just curious.

    I'm entirely an antheist and, while I can't say that I'm "active" in a churc I have taken some part in activities and whatnot. I don't think it's an issu think of it more as a civic, social, or community organization. As long as they're cool with it, and you're cool with it, then it shouldn't matter whet you're baptized or an official member of their faith or not.

    I agrre: among they are OK with it and you're OK with it, there shouldn't be
    an issue. I believe that it is rare that there will be people who are active in a church but not baptized, and prior organization I was in had one person that wss never baptized but was active. So, even in uncommon denomiations like the one I am in, it does happen.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    Synchronet MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Operations@VERT/SECTONE to sam on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 14:52:25
    Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: sam to All on Tue Jun 26 2018 02:48 pm

    Greetings. This forum doesn't appear to be very active, but I hoped to ask a question if anyone still watches it. Basically I consider myself agnostic, I wasn't raised around any faith or church, and to be honest I've always kinda just poked fun at religion and the concept of it. I had friends who were religious, but for me it was more or less one of the many social groups that we just didn't partake in.

    So in the last few years our kids have started attending an Episcopal based school that I actually like! The classes are very good, balanced, and though they have chapel a couple times a week it's left in chapel and not brought into the classroom. So no dinosaurs running along side men in science class for example. Our community just doesn't have a good track record with public schools. After the kids being involved with the school for a couple of years we've gotten active in the church.

    My wife was reaffirmed and my daughter has been baptized. Our son is still young to make this decision, and me... well I think they see me as a conundrum. I'm very active, I've just started getting a blessing each Sunday (never been baptized), and I volunteer as much as I can. We've gotten to know the rector and other clergy rather well, and we've started
    to become integrated into the church. I'm the only one though that
    probably hasn't been baptized and I don't keep it a secret though I don't
    go telling everyone. We were taking some classes over the summer with
    other adults from the church when the rector talked about the history of baptism and just asked if anyone hadn't been baptized... assuming not to
    get any hands. Well mine was the only one that went up.

    So to my question I guess. Is it common for someone who's not religious to be heavily involved in the church? I was told by the assistant rector once that they were open to everyone regardless of faith, just I couldn't join the vestry or some other roles which I'm fine with. But is anyone else in this boat or know of anyone who is ? Just seems like I'm the only one in our church, so just curious.

    Hey Sam,
    I think that's the way that it should be. I'm a pastor of a church here in New Jersey and i would welcome those who aren't religious. I think religion, as I see it, is the outward fitting into the hoops and boxes that man's thinking of God lead us into. I have met good religious people that sit in church and do nothing with their lives. I think what Jesus was looking for was people who weren't religious, following an external life style, but people who got it on the inside. There was something stirring in their hearts that caused them to get onboard and get involved. it was life changing, not living life boring. When baptism becomes less religious and more of because of the way that you are living life, jump right in.
    Not sure if that helps or not, but keep going man.

    ---
    Synchronet Section One BBS - www.section1bbs.com
  • From Jazzy_J@VERT/JAYSCAFE to sam on Thursday, June 28, 2018 06:38:00
    sam wrote to All <=-

    @VIA: VERT/TTLYNERD
    @TZ: c168
    Greetings. This forum doesn't appear to be very active, but I hoped to ask a question if anyone still watches it. Basically I consider myself agnostic, I wasn't raised around any faith or church, and to be honest I've always kinda just poked fun at religion and the concept of it. I
    had friends who were religious, but for me it was more or less one of
    the many social groups that we just didn't partake in.

    So in the last few years our kids have started attending an Episcopal based school that I actually like! The classes are very good,
    balanced, and though they have chapel a couple times a week it's left
    in chapel and not brought into the classroom. So no dinosaurs running along side men in science class for example. Our community just
    doesn't have a good track record with public schools. After the kids being involved with the school for a couple of years we've gotten
    active in the church.

    My wife was reaffirmed and my daughter has been baptized. Our son is
    still young to make this decision, and me... well I think they see me
    as a conundrum. I'm very active, I've just started getting a blessing each Sunday (never been baptized), and I volunteer as much as I can.
    We've gotten to know the rector and other clergy rather well, and we've started to become integrated into the church. I'm the only one though that probably hasn't been baptized and I don't keep it a secret though
    I don't go telling everyone. We were taking some classes over the
    summer with other adults from the church when the rector talked about
    the history of baptism and just asked if anyone hadn't been baptized... assuming not to get any hands. Well mine was the only one that went up.


    So to my question I guess. Is it common for someone who's not
    religious to be heavily involved in the church? I was told by the assistant rector once that they were open to everyone regardless of
    faith, just I couldn't join the vestry or some other roles which I'm
    fine with. But is anyone else in this boat or know of anyone who is ?
    Just seems like I'm the only one in our church, so just curious.

    ---
    = Synchronet = Totallynerd BBS - It doesn't get any nerdier than this
    - Nashville,TN

    I think this is great. I am a member of the Vestry of St. Matthew's Episcopal Church in Houma, Louisiana. I'm rotating off this year of a 3-year service.

    I was born into a different church, but joined the Episcopal Church after a divorce. I find the Episcopal Church very accepting. YMMV. However, I think you should enjoy the grace the church has to offer.

    In the future, if you decide to join, then you cross that bridge when you get there.

    Jay

    ... Jay's Cafe' - TW2002 (5n15u), port 23
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    Synchronet JAYSCAFE2 - jayscafe2.jayctheriot.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to sam on Thursday, June 28, 2018 14:29:31
    Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: sam to All on Tue Jun 26 2018 02:48 pm

    So to my question I guess. Is it common for someone who's not religious to be heavily involved in the church?

    Assuming you're referring to a main-stream Christian church, I don't think it's uncommon.

    We Americans live in a very Chistian society (we're so used to it, we don't really notice) so it doesn't feel too "weird" for a non-religous American to attend and participate in Christian church services (especially ceremonies like weddings, memorials, baptisms). However, if you were to attend services at a Muslim mosque or a Buddist temple (just as random examples of non-main-stream religions in America), that'd be more unusual and likely much less common for us westerners.

    When I was a teen, I had a friend that was LDS (Mormon) and I would occasionally attend services with him (though we didn't really pay any attention and would slip out to do whatever else we could get away with) - still, it didn't seem that unlike the Christian services I attended before and the members all spoke and acted "normal" (to me). I even performed drums/percussion for the backing music to one of their musicial plays. Didn't seem weird to me though I really had no information on their theology or history. Many years later, I saw the play, "The Book of Mormon", and that was a hilarious eye-opener. Great expose' show (and the LDS church has embraced it)!

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #27:
    As long as there's, y'know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. Norco, CA WX: 82.7F, 45.0% humidity, 15 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Thursday, June 28, 2018 19:14:00
    Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Digital Man to sam on Thu Jun 28 2018 02:29 pm

    When I was a teen, I had a friend that was LDS (Mormon) and I would occasionally attend services with him (though we didn't really pay any attention and would slip out to do whatever else we could get away with) - still, it didn't seem that unlike the Christian services I attended before and the members all spoke and acted "normal" (to me). I even performed


    during that romney thing i tried to get some special mormon underware but those fuckers protect them like they're gold. couldnt get any online.

    my gf is a huge religion hater so i wanted to freak her out
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  • From Draco@VERT/LOKISDEN to sam on Sunday, September 02, 2018 12:20:40
    So to my question I guess. Is it common for someone who's not religious to be heavily involved in the church? I was told by the assistant rector once that they were open to everyone regardless of faith, just I couldn't join the vestry or some other roles which I'm fine with. But is anyone else in this boat or know of anyone who is ? Just seems like I'm the only one in our church, so just curious.


    Hello Sam,

    I'm an affirmed and dedicated Pagan/Heathen. I've been staying with a friend, and
    she's been inviting me to go to church with her. She's Baptist, and attends church
    2 to 3 times a week (though it feels like more lol).

    I've been with her a few times to church. It's ok, unless they're demonizing me or
    my practices. It's hard to enjoy a service when I can pick out the misinformation
    and when they read only part of a story that is somewhat changed in context. I don't really blame them, or get mad, because that's what they were taught to do.
    They don't know any better. It's quite different than the Catholic upbringing I had though, then making a gradual switch to Paganism in my adulthood.

    Getting to the subject at hand, I've had the urge to get involved some, but have
    refrained. I have soundboard knowledge that could really help them, as well as IT
    knowledge I could help them streamline their service a little more as far as their
    lyric presentations are concerned. It's then that I remember, this is not my circus. There was a time when people in their place would hunt people like me down
    and kill them, so I keep my distance. I smile, shake hands, and be cordial. That's
    just me.

    If you're cool with them, and they're cool with you, then I don't see an issue. Good luck in all that you do!

    --Draco--

    ---
    Synchronet Loki's Den BBS - http://lokisdenbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Draco on Sunday, September 02, 2018 18:55:46
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Draco to sam on Sun Sep 02 2018 12:20 pm

    their
    lyric presentations are concerned. It's then that I remember, this is not my circus. There was a time when people in their place would hunt people like me down
    and kill them, so I keep my distance. I smile, shake hands, and be cordial. That's
    just me.


    just remember that YOU are not like people back then and neither are they.
    and whether you believe in it or not, it might help you regardless.

    i dont know of one case where paganism or satanism has turned a person into a better person, but there are many cases where mainstream religion has turned some horrible people into good people.

    dont see them as the enemy or misguided. EVERYONE is misguided. everyone is stupid. take the good from it and learn.
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Monday, September 03, 2018 15:30:32
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Draco on Sun Sep 02 2018 06:55 pm

    i dont know of one case where paganism or satanism has turned a person into a better person, but there are many cases where mainstream religion has turned some horrible people into good people.

    I've heard that through the middle ages, Christians have tried to make Paganism sound like a bad thing when it isn't necessarily a bad religion. I've heard Christians even took some of the Pagan holidays and made them their own, or part of their own. For instance, I think I've heard Christmas was originally a Pagan winter solstice holiday, and Jesus' birthday is not even known for sure to be December 25th.

    I'm glad if a religion makes someone a better person, but I tend to be suspicious of that. If a religion is what makes someone a better person, I have to wonder if the person is only being a good person out of fear that they'll be punished otherwise. It would be better if a person is a good person because that's who they are naturally, regardless of their religion. If someone has learned from their religion and chose to be a better person, then that's good, I suppose.

    Nightfox

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    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to sam on Monday, September 03, 2018 15:35:02
    Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: sam to All on Tue Jun 26 2018 02:48 pm

    So to my question I guess. Is it common for someone who's not religious to be heavily involved in the church? I was told by the assistant rector once

    I suppose it's not uncommon. I was not raised with a religion, but I have attended church with friends & relatives who are religions. I thought it was interesting, although since I had never studied the bible or anything when I was growing up, it almost felt strange being in church, like a different culture than I grew up in. I might feel a little strange spending a whole lot of time in church, as the other people there might assume I have the same level of convictions and belief that they do, but I suppose I'd get used to it.

    Nightfox

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  • From Draco@VERT/LOKISDEN to MRO on Monday, September 03, 2018 20:38:34
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Draco to sam on Sun Sep 02 2018 12:20 pm

    their
    lyric presentations are concerned. It's then that I remember, this is
    not
    my circus. There was a time when people in their place would hunt people like me down
    and kill them, so I keep my distance. I smile, shake hands, and be cordial. That's
    just me.


    just remember that YOU are not like people back then and neither are they. and whether you believe in it or not, it might help you regardless.

    i dont know of one case where paganism or satanism has turned a person into a better person, but there are many cases where mainstream religion has turned some horrible people into good people.

    dont see them as the enemy or misguided. EVERYONE is misguided. everyone
    is stupid. take the good from it and learn.


    You see, I don't see it that way. Listening to the sermons the past couple of months, I hear a lot of fear, shame, and that they will never be good enough. There's a lot of psychological word play at work, and it's not necessarily a good thing. It's like an abusive relationship where someone is mental beaten into submission. If fear of the afterlife is the only thing keeping one in line, how truly "good" is that person.

    I fear no one and no god, not even Death. Does this make me a bad person? According to Judaeo-based beliefs, I am. I was told just yesterday "You could decide not to be (Pagan) and you'd enjoy it more." It's not a choice. I am
    what and who I am. If I turn my back on my ancestors and gods, who in their right mind would trust me?

    Draco

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 00:46:26
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Sep 03 2018 03:30 pm

    I'm glad if a religion makes someone a better person, but I tend to be suspicious of that. If a religion is what makes someone a better person, I have to wonder if the person is only being a good person out of fear that they'll be punished otherwise. It would be better if a person is a good


    their believe system and morals get replaced. it's not because of fear.
    unless you are a lutheran.

    look up general butt naked. he turned his whole life around.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Draco on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 00:48:41
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Draco to MRO on Mon Sep 03 2018 08:38 pm

    You see, I don't see it that way. Listening to the sermons the past couple of months, I hear a lot of fear, shame, and that they will never be good enough. There's a lot of psychological word play at work, and it's not necessarily a good thing. It's like an abusive relationship where someone is mental beaten into submission. If fear of the afterlife is the only thing


    maybe you hear that because that's what you are looking to hear. if you're looking to find something, you will find it.

    i have been to church for many years and i never heard anything about fear and shame and that people will never be good enough.

    I fear no one and no god, not even Death. Does this make me a bad person?

    well it makes you a liar. because everyone is afraid of something. especially death. death is a scarey fucking thing to face.
    ---
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  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 08:42:32
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Sep 03 2018 15:30:32

    i dont know of one case where paganism or satanism has turned a person into a better person, but there are many cases where mainstream religio has turned some horrible people into good people.

    I've heard that through the middle ages, Christians have tried to make Pagan sound like a bad thing when it isn't necessarily a bad religion. I've heard Christians even took some of the Pagan holidays and made them their own, or part of their own. For instance, I think I've heard Christmas was originall Pagan winter solstice holiday, and Jesus' birthday is not even known for sur to be December 25th.

    The church that I am in believes some of the holidays (e.g. Halloween, Christmas, New Year's, Valentines, etc.) are pegan by origin and the Catholic just adopted those holidays to draw more Pegabs in. We have nothing to do with said holidays. However, Thanksgiving, Mother's/Father's Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, and Labor Day is national in origin we keep those.

    I'm glad if a religion makes someone a better person, but I tend to be suspicious of that. If a religion is what makes someone a better person, I have to wonder if the person is only being a good person out of fear that they'll be punished otherwise. It would be better if a person is a good per because that's who they are naturally, regardless of their religion. If someone has learned from their religion and chose to be a better person, the that's good, I suppose.

    That, or some people are genuely want to be a petter person, and just find being a group of people who are like minded makes it easier to become a better person.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jagossel on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 08:49:46
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Tue Sep 04 2018 08:42 am

    I've heard that through the middle ages, Christians have tried to make
    Pagan sound like a bad thing when it isn't necessarily a bad religion.
    I've heard Christians even took some of the Pagan holidays and made
    them their own, or part of their own. For instance, I think I've
    heard Christmas was originall Pagan winter solstice holiday, and
    Jesus' birthday is not even known for sur to be December 25th.

    The church that I am in believes some of the holidays (e.g. Halloween, Christmas, New Year's, Valentines, etc.) are pegan by origin and the Catholic just adopted those holidays to draw more Pegabs in. We have nothing to do with said holidays. However, Thanksgiving, Mother's/Father's Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, and Labor Day is national in origin we keep those.

    hmm.. I thought holidays like New Year's and Valentine's were more general cultural holidays than religious in origin. And particularly Valentine's Day, I thought that was more of a marketing holiday to get more people to buy products.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 08:55:34
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Draco on Tue Sep 04 2018 12:48 am

    i have been to church for many years and i never heard anything about fear and shame and that people will never be good enough.

    Well I often hear it preached that we're all sinners and Jesus died for our sins so that we can be saved. I think that could be interpreted by some as shameful and we aren't good enough.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 08:12:00
    On 09-02-18 18:55, MRO wrote to Draco <=-

    i dont know of one case where paganism or satanism has turned a person into a better person, but there are many cases where mainstream
    religion has turned some horrible people into good people.

    I take people as I find them, regardless of their religion. I've known people of various faiths over the years - Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Pagan, Hindu and others, as well as athiests, and there's good and bad among any subgroup. I've seen religion help some people grow and become better people, and I've seen it turn others into narrow minded bigots. However, I don't have a lot of time for the hierarchy of organised religion, that to me is more a machine for population control than a platform for spiritual enlightenment. That aspect is particularly topical over here, because of the recent Royal Commission into institutional child sexual abuse, where a number of churches, especially the Catholic Church were found wanting. And now there's a battle between canon law and the rule of law.

    dont see them as the enemy or misguided. EVERYONE is misguided.
    everyone is stupid. take the good from it and learn.

    Agree, we're all learning and making mistakes during our time in this world.


    ... Finagle's first Law: If an experiment works, something has gone wrong
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 17:27:36
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Wed Sep 05 2018 08:12 am

    Agree, we're all learning and making mistakes during our time in this world.

    I saw a meme online recently that said "Good judgement comes from experience. And experience? Well that comes from poor judgement."

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 09:02:00
    On 09-03-18 15:30, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    I've heard that through the middle ages, Christians have tried to make Paganism sound like a bad thing when it isn't necessarily a bad

    Yes, there was a lot of propaganda at the time.

    religion. I've heard Christians even took some of the Pagan holidays
    and made them their own, or part of their own. For instance, I think
    I've heard Christmas was originally a Pagan winter solstice holiday,
    and Jesus' birthday is not even known for sure to be December 25th.

    That is true. The date of Christmas was indeed set to line up with the Pagan winter solstice festival, to make it more palatable for Pagans to convert to Christianity. The question of Jesus' birth has been studied. What is known is that the calulations used to arrive at the borth of Christ was out by a few years, and Jesus was born sometime in 3-6 BC. As for time of year, it is considered highly unlikely he was born around Christmas. One possibility I had heard or read was his birthday was closer to Easter.

    I'm glad if a religion makes someone a better person, but I tend to be suspicious of that. If a religion is what makes someone a better
    person, I have to wonder if the person is only being a good person out
    of fear that they'll be punished otherwise. It would be better if a

    Different things to trigger different people to become better people. If religion works, all well and good. For many others, it's traumatic or tough life events that open their eyes to a better way of living.

    person is a good person because that's who they are naturally,
    regardless of their religion. If someone has learned from their
    religion and chose to be a better person, then that's good, I suppose.

    Whatever works. :)


    ... How do those dead bugs get into closed light fixtures?
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 09:06:00
    On 09-03-18 15:35, Nightfox wrote to sam <=-

    I suppose it's not uncommon. I was not raised with a religion, but I
    have attended church with friends & relatives who are religions. I

    I was raised Church of England, but didn't come to understand religion until my 20s, which, ironically, started my journey away from conventional organised religion.

    thought it was interesting, although since I had never studied the
    bible or anything when I was growing up, it almost felt strange being
    in church, like a different culture than I grew up in. I might feel a little strange spending a whole lot of time in church, as the other
    people there might assume I have the same level of convictions and
    belief that they do, but I suppose I'd get used to it.

    Yeah I sometimes feel a bit out of place in a church these days too, but in other ways I don't. It depends on the vibe of the people. I get mistaken as Christian a lot, because of the way I try and help people, as well as my knowledge of the Bible (I take an interest in it as a cultural influence, rather than a spiritual work).


    ... Lymph (v.), to walk with a lisp.
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    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Draco on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 09:17:00
    On 09-03-18 20:38, Draco wrote to MRO <=-

    You see, I don't see it that way. Listening to the sermons the past
    couple of months, I hear a lot of fear, shame, and that they will never
    be good enough. There's a lot of psychological word play at work, and
    it's not necessarily a good thing. It's like an abusive relationship
    where someone is mental beaten into submission. If fear of the
    afterlife is the only thing keeping one in line, how truly "good" is
    that person.

    To me, that's the power games that the hierarchy use. I don't have a lot of time for that. My sense of good comes from within, and I hold myself to the same standards as anyone else, actually higher, because I am the only person I have control over, and therefore I feel it's best to lead by example.

    I fear no one and no god, not even Death. Does this make me a bad
    person? According to Judaeo-based beliefs, I am. I was told just

    In my book, no, it doesn't matter what you believe. What matters is how you treat everything around you - whether you're self serving or working with some higher purpose (others, community, truth, justice, environment, etc) in mind.

    yesterday "You could decide not to be (Pagan) and you'd enjoy it more." It's not a choice. I am what and who I am. If I turn my back on my ancestors and gods, who in their right mind would trust me?

    And that I can fully understand.

    I've come to where I am through my own spiritual journey. I started around 30 years ago from a familiar place - Christianity, as I was raised Church of England. However, I drifted away from the church and went on my own journey. Part of that journey is to understand other belief systems, as well as accepting them, which I've been fairly successful at.

    And I'm happier now. I feel I've been able to do my own exploration, and gain insights that I wouldn't have otherwise. I would have been a lot more constrained by the church in some ways, while having more "excuses" to do harm.
    Instead, if I do wrong, I have no one or nothing to hide behind. I have to take responsibility for my wrongs. As for what happens when I die, I'll find out when I get there. I hope that I've been able to leave the world a better place than I found it when that day comes.


    ... I shoot every third salesperson that calls. The second one just left.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 17:56:00
    On 09-04-18 17:27, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I saw a meme online recently that said "Good judgement comes from experience. And experience? Well that comes from poor judgement."


    LOL good one.

    Or "Experience comes just after you need it". ;)
    ... Sector not found. Kill Program? (Y)es, (N)o, (S)crew it
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Draco@VERT/LOKISDEN to MRO on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:01:27
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Draco to MRO on Mon Sep 03 2018 08:38 pm

    You see, I don't see it that way. Listening to the sermons the past couple of months, I hear a lot of fear, shame, and that they will never be good enough. There's a lot of psychological word play at work, and it's not necessarily a good thing. It's like an abusive relationship where someone is mental beaten into submission. If fear of the afterlife is the only thing


    maybe you hear that because that's what you are looking to hear. if you're looking to find something, you will find it.

    i have been to church for many years and i never heard anything about fear and shame and that people will never be good enough.


    Many Christian churches preach a fear of the afterlife in the form of Hell. A fear from being separated from their god. "We're all sinners! We're not worthy of Him!" That's so degrading and shaming, and meant to instill insecurity for being human. WTF? Maybe you don't see it that way, but being conditioned to such patterns is a sign of abuse.

    I fear no one and no god, not even Death. Does this make me a bad
    person?

    well it makes you a liar. because everyone is afraid of something. especially death. death is a scarey fucking thing to face.

    Death isn't scary. It is inevitable. We will all die. It will happen. Why fear it?

    --Draco--

    ---
    Synchronet Loki's Den BBS - http://lokisdenbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Draco on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 06:43:00
    On 09-11-18 11:01, Draco wrote to MRO <=-

    Death isn't scary. It is inevitable. We will all die. It will happen.
    Why fear it?

    Death is a part of the cycle of life - birth, groeth, reproduction, death, recycling. Everything goes in cycles, both living and non living. It's the way of things. And each cycle is both similar and different to the last time around.

    For me, the harder part to get my head around is what happens to the consciousness/soul/essence of living things at death. And there's no science I know of that can answer that question - only religious and spiritual beliefs have anything tangible to offer here. Of course, we may simply cease to exist in a spiritual sense too. Who knows?


    ... Can I blame my spelling on Line Noise?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 17:23:38
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Vk3jed to Draco on Wed Sep 12 2018 06:43 am

    For me, the harder part to get my head around is what happens to the consciousness/soul/essence of living things at death. And there's no science I know of that can answer that question - only religious and spiritual beliefs have anything tangible to offer here. Of course, we may simply cease to exist in a spiritual sense too. Who knows?

    I'm not sure anyone really knows for sure what happens to us after we die. The different religions seem to have varying ideas on that. Some say our soul goes to heaven or hell depending on how we've lived our life, and others say our spirit gets reincarnated into better or worse circumstances for similar reasons (depending on how we've lived our life, they say we develop good or bad karma). I have a hard time with this, because the true believers all believe they're right, but the fact that there are differing ideas on it tells me we don't really know for sure. There are also those who believe there is not enough information to say that we have a soul that goes on after death, so perhaps we just cease to exist. It seems to me there is probably more to this universe than we percieve, so I'm not sure there is enough information to be confident about that conclusion either.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Draco@VERT/LOKISDEN to Vk3jed on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 14:35:02
    On 09-03-18 20:38, Draco wrote to MRO <=-

    You see, I don't see it that way. Listening to the sermons the past couple of months, I hear a lot of fear, shame, and that they will
    never
    be good enough. There's a lot of psychological word play at work, and it's not necessarily a good thing. It's like an abusive relationship where someone is mental beaten into submission. If fear of the afterlife is the only thing keeping one in line, how truly "good" is that person.

    To me, that's the power games that the hierarchy use. I don't have a lot
    of time for that. My sense of good comes from within, and I hold myself to the same standards as anyone else, actually higher, because I am the only person I have control over, and therefore I feel it's best to lead by example.


    I come from a similar mindset. My sense of right and wrong comes from holding myself to a higher standard and higher accountability. Ethics based on experience and my own nature.

    I fear no one and no god, not even Death. Does this make me a bad person? According to Judaeo-based beliefs, I am. I was told just

    In my book, no, it doesn't matter what you believe. What matters is how
    you treat everything around you - whether you're self serving or working with some higher purpose (others, community, truth, justice, environment, etc) in mind.


    Exactly. I agree. Your actions speak louder than words, and even louder than belief. I feel my purpose is to teach and protect. I see a lot of self-serving going on in society right now, and it disgusts me.

    yesterday "You could decide not to be (Pagan) and you'd enjoy it
    more."
    It's not a choice. I am what and who I am. If I turn my back on my ancestors and gods, who in their right mind would trust me?

    And that I can fully understand.

    I've come to where I am through my own spiritual journey. I started around 30 years ago from a familiar place - Christianity, as I was raised Church
    of
    England. However, I drifted away from the church and went on my own journey. Part of that journey is to understand other belief systems, as well as accepting them, which I've been fairly successful at.


    I come from a Roman Catholic upbringing, but I knew very early in life that
    was not my spiritual home. I too, have gone on a spiritual journey. It has
    lead me to where I am now, and has been quite successful.

    And I'm happier now. I feel I've been able to do my own exploration, and gain insights that I wouldn't have otherwise. I would have been a lot more constrained by the church in some ways, while having more "excuses" to do harm.
    Instead, if I do wrong, I have no one or nothing to hide behind. I have
    to
    take responsibility for my wrongs. As for what happens when I die, I'll find out when I get there. I hope that I've been able to leave the world a better place than I found it when that day comes.


    I admire you. All too often people will hide their misdeeds behind religion. They blame the "devil" for the bad that happens to them, and their god for everything good that happens to them. Rarely do they ever actually take credit themselves, or place it where it's due. I guess it's easier to place credit with gods, than taking it upon yourself, but then there's no responsibility or accountability either. In essence, they're cheating themselves out of everything and giving credit away that they deserve. I don't see the function or reasoning behind it, other than control.

    I'm also happier now. I've shed the weight of religious control, and am free
    to explore as I see fit. My friend, I hope we all leave the world a better place.

    --Draco--

    ---
    Synchronet Loki's Den BBS - http://lokisdenbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thursday, September 13, 2018 07:43:00
    On 09-11-18 17:23, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'm not sure anyone really knows for sure what happens to us after we
    die. The different religions seem to have varying ideas on that. Some say our soul goes to heaven or hell depending on how we've lived our
    life, and others say our spirit gets reincarnated into better or worse circumstances for similar reasons (depending on how we've lived our
    life, they say we develop good or bad karma). I have a hard time with this, because the true believers all believe they're right, but the
    fact that there are differing ideas on it tells me we don't really know for sure. There are also those who believe there is not enough information to say that we have a soul that goes on after death, so perhaps we just cease to exist. It seems to me there is probably more
    to this universe than we percieve, so I'm not sure there is enough information to be confident about that conclusion either.

    That's a pretty good summary, and yes, it all comes down to belief. Science hasn't yet discovered where the soul or consciousness really lives, so the only thing that attempts to explain are the various belief systems. Like the scientists, I don't know either, but I do believe there is "something", though we may ceast to exist (spiritually) in our present form and become part of something bigger. But then again, I could be totally wrong. :) As you suggested, maybe we simply ceast to exist. Not too many come back to say otherwise! :D

    I have a similar thing about the existence of God. I don't believe it's possible to determine (in a scientific sense) if God exists, so to me, the existance of God (or many gods) will always be a matter of belief. I don't believe in such a deity myself, though I do believe there is something much bigger that connects everything across the Universe. But I doubt I'll know anything until I die (assuming something goes on after death). :)


    ... Life is not a cabaret, it's a circus!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 16:38:44
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Sep 13 2018 07:43 am

    I have a similar thing about the existence of God. I don't believe it's possible to determine (in a scientific sense) if God exists, so to me, the existance of God (or many gods) will always be a matter of belief. I don't believe in such a deity myself, though I do believe there is something much bigger that connects everything across the Universe. But I doubt I'll know anything until I die (assuming something goes on after death). :)

    One thing that bugs me a little is those who try to tell you you're going to go to hell if you don't accept Jesus in your heart and accept him as your God and savior. It's fine to believe that, but if we don't really know for sure, I'm not sure it makes much sense to go around telling people that unless they are a Christian perhaps. Otherwise you may end up giving people a guilt trip, or they'll just dismiss it.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Draco on Thursday, September 13, 2018 13:46:00
    On 09-12-18 14:35, Draco wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I come from a similar mindset. My sense of right and wrong comes from holding myself to a higher standard and higher accountability. Ethics based on experience and my own nature.

    I can relate totally.

    Exactly. I agree. Your actions speak louder than words, and even louder than belief. I feel my purpose is to teach and protect. I see a lot of self-serving going on in society right now, and it disgusts me.

    Yes, it's what you do and why you do it that counts. I see the self serving too, and am equally disgusted.

    I come from a Roman Catholic upbringing, but I knew very early in life that was not my spiritual home. I too, have gone on a spiritual
    journey. It has lead me to where I am now, and has been quite
    successful.

    Seems for both of us, our religious upbringings were a useful starting point for our journeys. My journey has worked out pretty well too.

    I admire you. All too often people will hide their misdeeds behind religion. They blame the "devil" for the bad that happens to them, and their god for everything good that happens to them. Rarely do they ever actually take credit themselves, or place it where it's due. I guess
    it's easier to place credit with gods, than taking it upon yourself,
    but then there's no responsibility or accountability either. In

    Yes, too many people use religion as an excuse, and lose all insight into what's actually driving them. Instead of looking at the internal motivating factors, they look to external reasons, and abdicate all responsibility as a result.

    essence, they're cheating themselves out of everything and giving
    credit away that they deserve. I don't see the function or reasoning behind it, other than control.

    For some, it's control, for others, it's like a crutch to lean on.

    I'm also happier now. I've shed the weight of religious control, and am free to explore as I see fit. My friend, I hope we all leave the world
    a better place.

    I'm happier too. I have not forgotten the role religion has played in my life to start the journey, and while I know it's not the answer for me, I respect different beliefs. And yet, let's improve this world. I still have a lot of time left here (I hope! :) ).


    ... I was in Chicago once. Blew me away.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thursday, September 13, 2018 13:48:00
    On 09-12-18 16:38, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    One thing that bugs me a little is those who try to tell you you're
    going to go to hell if you don't accept Jesus in your heart and accept
    him as your God and savior. It's fine to believe that, but if we don't really know for sure, I'm not sure it makes much sense to go around telling people that unless they are a Christian perhaps. Otherwise you may end up giving people a guilt trip, or they'll just dismiss it.

    Yep, I don't go for that one. I'm a believer in that we each have our own journey, and have to tread our own path in our own time. There is no one right answer.


    ... And now for something you'll really like! -Rocky
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Draco on Thursday, September 13, 2018 16:41:15
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Draco to Vk3jed on Wed Sep 12 2018 02:35 pm

    I admire you. All too often people will hide their misdeeds behind religion. They blame the "devil" for the bad that happens to them, and their god for everything good that happens to them. Rarely do they ever actually take credit themselves, or place it where it's due. I guess it's easier to place

    i've known a lot of religious nuts, but not once have they blamed the devil
    for anything.

    i dont see anything wrong with them thanking god for good fortune. it's not hurting anybody. if they decide to give credit to god, let them.

    themselves out of everything and giving credit away that they deserve. I don't see the function or reasoning behind it, other than control.

    i think you have a bias against religion and see things in a way to compliment your bias. dont put yourself into a situation where you visit a church unless you are going to be open minded. you wasted your time.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Thursday, September 13, 2018 16:43:41
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Sep 13 2018 07:43 am

    I have a similar thing about the existence of God. I don't believe it's possible to determine (in a scientific sense) if God exists, so to me, the existance of God (or many gods) will always be a matter of belief. I don't

    https://youtu.be/tgzwmOXrfaU
    ---
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  • From Argelian@VERT/DMINE to MRO on Friday, October 05, 2018 20:38:00
    -=[ On 09-04-18 00:48, MRO wrote to Draco below: ]=-
    -=[ Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church ]=-

    Hi MRO!

    I fear no one and no god, not even Death. Does this make me a bad person?

    well it makes you a liar. because everyone is afraid of something. especially death. death is a scarey fucking thing to face.
    I don't fear death itself, I just fear the form in which the process will manifest.

    Cheers,
    Bryan
    bhandfield(at)me(dot)com

    ... I have the wine knowlege of a chipmunk.
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.51
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Argelian@VERT/DMINE to Draco on Friday, October 05, 2018 20:55:00
    -=[ On 09-11-18 11:01, Draco wrote to MRO below: ]=-
    -=[ Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church ]=-

    Hi Draco!

    Many Christian churches preach a fear of the afterlife in the form of Hell. A fear from being separated from their god. "We're all sinners! We're not worthy of Him!" That's so degrading and shaming, and meant to instill insecurity for being human. WTF? Maybe you don't see it that
    way, but being conditioned to such patterns is a sign of abuse.
    I am sorry you feel that way. Some people deliver messages like that too bluntly at times and comes across as being extremely judgemental.

    Cheers,
    Bryan
    bhandfield(at)me(dot)com

    ... Survival Tip #2: Never MOON a werewolf.
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.51
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Argelian@VERT/DMINE to Vk3jed on Friday, October 05, 2018 20:57:00
    -=[ On 09-12-18 06:43, Vk3jed wrote to Draco below: ]=-
    -=[ Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church ]=-

    Hi Vk3jed!

    spiritual beliefs have anything tangible to offer here. Of course, we
    may simply cease to exist in a spiritual sense too. Who knows?
    I would rather live my life believing there are eternal consequences to my actions and dieing and finding out that theres none than to live my life without any moral compass and finding out that there are eternal consequences.


    Cheers,
    Bryan
    bhandfield(at)me(dot)com

    ... If you love me, you'd swallow the tofu, not spit it out.
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.51
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Argelian@VERT/DMINE to Nightfox on Friday, October 05, 2018 21:12:00
    -=[ On 09-11-18 17:23, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed below: ]=-
    -=[ Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church ]=-

    Hi Nightfox!

    I'm not sure anyone really knows for sure what happens to us after we
    die. The different religions seem to have varying ideas on that. Some say our soul goes to heaven or hell depending on how we've lived our
    life, and others say our spirit gets reincarnated into better or worse
    In the Christian faith, where a soul goes after passing on depends on whether or not that individual has accepted Christs death on the cross. (John 14:6)

    Hell it not eternal, it is only a holding cell for those that are lost and await judgement on judgement day. (Rev 20:13-14)

    circumstances for similar reasons (depending on how we've lived our
    life, they say we develop good or bad karma). I have a hard time with this, because the true believers all believe they're right, but the
    fact that there are differing ideas on it tells me we don't really know for sure. There are also those who believe there is not enough information to say that we have a soul that goes on after death, so perhaps we just cease to exist. It seems to me there is probably more
    to this universe than we percieve, so I'm not sure there is enough information to be confident about that conclusion either.
    I personally believe that we are created in God's image so that means were created with an eternal nature. (Gen 1:26)

    Cheers,
    Bryan
    bhandfield(at)me(dot)com

    ... Applied emotion is the key to success with happiness.
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.51
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Argelian@VERT/DMINE to Nightfox on Friday, October 05, 2018 21:18:00
    -=[ On 09-12-18 16:38, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed below: ]=-
    -=[ Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church ]=-

    Hi Nightfox!

    One thing that bugs me a little is those who try to tell you you're
    going to go to hell if you don't accept Jesus in your heart and accept
    him as your God and savior. It's fine to believe that, but if we don't really know for sure, I'm not sure it makes much sense to go around telling people that unless they are a Christian perhaps. Otherwise you may end up giving people a guilt trip, or they'll just dismiss it.
    Well, anyone who walks up to you and says your going to hell, just turn around and tell them "see you there!" :) Then quote them ---> (Rom 3:23) <---

    Scripture can't be debated, only ones interpretation of it ;)

    Cheers,
    Bryan
    bhandfield(at)me(dot)com

    ... Cat-o-holic - addicted to cats
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.51
    Synchronet Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Argelian on Tuesday, October 09, 2018 23:33:29
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Argelian to MRO on Fri Oct 05 2018 08:38 pm

    -=[ On 09-04-18 00:48, MRO wrote to Draco below: ]=-
    -=[ Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church ]=-

    Hi MRO!

    I fear no one and no god, not even Death. Does this make me a bad person?

    well it makes you a liar. because everyone is afraid of something. especially death. death is a scarey fucking thing to face.
    I don't fear death itself, I just fear the form in which the process will manifest.



    you will fear death when it's near.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Draco@VERT/LOKISDEN to MRO on Wednesday, October 10, 2018 10:12:04
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Draco to Vk3jed on Wed Sep 12 2018 02:35 pm

    I admire you. All too often people will hide their misdeeds behind religion. They blame the "devil" for the bad that happens to them, and their god for everything good that happens to them. Rarely do they ever actually take credit themselves, or place it where it's due. I guess
    it's easier to place

    i've known a lot of religious nuts, but not once have they blamed the devil for anything.


    There are plenty out there. My friend sure blamed him, almost on a manic paranoid level.

    i dont see anything wrong with them thanking god for good fortune. it's not hurting anybody. if they decide to give credit to god, let them.


    I don't see it as health. It feeds into the dependence on their god and church for everything. Dependence on the church leaves people open for abuse.

    themselves out of everything and giving credit away that they deserve. I don't see the function or reasoning behind it, other than control.

    i think you have a bias against religion and see things in a way to compliment your bias. dont put yourself into a situation where you visit a church unless you are going to be open minded. you wasted your time.


    I don't have a bias against religion, there are plenty of religions that don't control their followers. I have a bias against controlling organizations and misinformation. This not only includes controlling religions, but also
    fascists governments as well.

    Draco

    ---
    Synchronet Loki's Den BBS - http://lokisdenbbs.com
  • From Draco@VERT/LOKISDEN to Vk3jed on Wednesday, October 10, 2018 10:36:33
    On 09-12-18 14:35, Draco wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I come from a similar mindset. My sense of right and wrong comes from holding myself to a higher standard and higher accountability. Ethics based on experience and my own nature.

    I can relate totally.

    Exactly. I agree. Your actions speak louder than words, and even
    louder than belief. I feel my purpose is to teach and protect. I see a lot of self-serving going on in society right now, and it disgusts me.

    Yes, it's what you do and why you do it that counts. I see the self
    serving too, and am equally disgusted.


    It's nice to know I'm not alone. :)

    I come from a Roman Catholic upbringing, but I knew very early in life that was not my spiritual home. I too, have gone on a spiritual journey. It has lead me to where I am now, and has been quite successful.

    Seems for both of us, our religious upbringings were a useful starting
    point for our journeys. My journey has worked out pretty well too.


    I agree, it does seem that our religious upbringings did play a vital role on our journeys. I'm glad your journey is working out for you also.

    I admire you. All too often people will hide their misdeeds behind religion. They blame the "devil" for the bad that happens to them, and their god for everything good that happens to them. Rarely do they
    ever actually take credit themselves, or place it where it's due. I guess it's easier to place credit with gods, than taking it upon yourself, but then there's no responsibility or accountability either.

    Yes, too many people use religion as an excuse, and lose all insight into what's actually driving them. Instead of looking at the internal
    motivating factors, they look to external reasons, and abdicate all responsibility as a result.


    I've seen this a lot. Externalizing one's accomplishments can't be good for
    the psyche either.

    essence, they're cheating themselves out of everything and giving credit away that they deserve. I don't see the function or reasoning behind it, other than control.

    For some, it's control, for others, it's like a crutch to lean on.


    I can agree with this. My friend definitely uses religion as her crutch. She bounces between no less than 5 different pastors for advice, and can't wait to tell them her latest attention grab (lately it's been a suicide).

    I'm also happier now. I've shed the weight of religious control, and
    am free to explore as I see fit. My friend, I hope we all leave the world a better place.

    I'm happier too. I have not forgotten the role religion has played in my life to start the journey, and while I know it's not the answer for me, I respect different beliefs. And yet, let's improve this world. I still
    have a lot of time left here (I hope! :) ).


    I haven't forgotten the part religion has played in shaping my views, and certain thought patterns in some religions aren't for me. Currently, I'm on a Pagan-ish path, with a Norse twist (ancestry has always been important to me and my family). I agree, this world is in need of betterment. :) I'm
    attempting to achieve just that, despite the obstacles placed in the way. I'm looking forward to many years myself, and I hope we both get them!

    Well met my friend!

    Draco

    ---
    Synchronet Loki's Den BBS - http://lokisdenbbs.com
  • From Draco@VERT/LOKISDEN to Argelian on Wednesday, October 10, 2018 10:45:48
    -=[ On 09-11-18 11:01, Draco wrote to MRO below: ]=-
    -=[ Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church ]=-

    Hi Draco!


    Hi :)

    Many Christian churches preach a fear of the afterlife in the form of Hell. A fear from being separated from their god. "We're all sinners! We're not worthy of Him!" That's so degrading and shaming, and meant
    to instill insecurity for being human. WTF? Maybe you don't see it
    that way, but being conditioned to such patterns is a sign of abuse.

    I am sorry you feel that way. Some people deliver messages like that too bluntly at times and comes across as being extremely judgmental.


    Regardless of how it's delivered or presented, the message is the same. Changing the delivery and/or presentation doesn't really change meaning or message.

    Draco

    ---
    Synchronet Loki's Den BBS - http://lokisdenbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Argelian on Wednesday, October 10, 2018 09:54:01
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Argelian to Nightfox on Fri Oct 05 2018 09:18 pm

    Scripture can't be debated, only ones interpretation of it ;)

    That's one thing I struggle with sometimes. I'm sure the followers of Hinduism or other religions will say they they have a different scripture they believe is correct.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Argelian on Wednesday, October 10, 2018 13:15:53
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Argelian to MRO on Fri Oct 05 2018 08:38 pm

    well it makes you a liar. because everyone is afraid of something.
    especially death. death is a scarey fucking thing to face.

    I don't fear death itself, I just fear the form in which the process will manifest.

    I'm the same, I don't fear death itself, I just hope I die in a peaceful and painless way. There's also the possible issue of not doing all the things you want to do before you die, but I still don't fear death itself. I know I'm not going to live forever.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Argelian on Wednesday, October 10, 2018 13:19:07
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Argelian to Vk3jed on Fri Oct 05 2018 08:57 pm

    I would rather live my life believing there are eternal consequences to my actions and dieing and finding out that theres none than to live my life without any moral compass and finding out that there are eternal consequences.

    There might be an in-between. Even if there aren't any eternal consequences for yourself, I think it's still important to be a good person. And it feels good to do good things anyway.. And also, even if there aren't any eternal consequences for yourself, the things you do will end up having lasting consequences for the other people you meet, and your children (if you have any), etc., who will outlive you. I'd rather leave the world with something good that I have contributed in some way.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Argelian on Thursday, October 11, 2018 09:35:00
    On 10-05-18 20:57, Argelian wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    spiritual beliefs have anything tangible to offer here. Of course, we
    may simply cease to exist in a spiritual sense too. Who knows?
    I would rather live my life believing there are eternal consequences to
    my actions and dieing and finding out that theres none than to live my life without any moral compass and finding out that there are eternal consequences.

    I don't believe you need an organised religion to have a moral compass, just a well developed sense of spirituality. In fact, I see many people who use religion as an _excuse_ to do evil things, which can be very insidious, because it can legitimise evil in the eyes of some. Things from ostracision and bollying to murder and genocide have been done in the name of religion over the centuries.

    While I believe in religious freedom, which I define as the freedom to observe one's chosen faith (or lack threrof), within limits required for orderly secular society, I have no time for religious wars, arguments, bullying, or use of religion as a "weapon" or instrument of power (which organised religion is often guilty of).

    I also believe it is healthy to examine other faiths and belief systems, understanding other people is very important to me. Don't have to agree with them, just listen and understand. :) To that end, do have an understanding of the Bible, and would like to understand other religions (I was raised Christian, so I already have a fair understanding there, even though I don't follow it these days), because each gives a different perspective on being human.


    ... Synonym: A word you use when you can't spell the other.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Draco on Thursday, October 11, 2018 09:42:00
    On 10-10-18 10:36, Draco wrote to Vk3jed <=-ty right now, and it disgusts
    me.

    Yes, it's what you do and why you do it that counts. I see the self
    serving too, and am equally disgusted.

    It's nice to know I'm not alone. :)

    Yes, always nice to meet fellow travellers on this journey called "life", even if only in cyberspace. :)

    I agree, it does seem that our religious upbringings did play a vital
    role on our journeys. I'm glad your journey is working out for you
    also.

    Yes, for me, Christianity (of the Anglican flavour in my case) was a good starting point.

    I've seen this a lot. Externalizing one's accomplishments can't be good for the psyche either.

    It seems to be a form of denial - denial of one's troubles and challenges. Instead of facing whatever troubles you (which can be hard), one resorts to blaming external factors - God, the Devil, demons, non believers, anything but looking within.

    I can agree with this. My friend definitely uses religion as her
    crutch. She bounces between no less than 5 different pastors for
    advice, and can't wait to tell them her latest attention grab (lately
    it's been a suicide).

    That's sad, really. :( The best comes (regardless of beliefs) when you face your own challenges. That makes for better people, and those who do, who are religious are often better at living the ideals of their faith.

    I haven't forgotten the part religion has played in shaping my views,
    and certain thought patterns in some religions aren't for me.

    Same here. :)

    Currently, I'm on a Pagan-ish path, with a Norse twist (ancestry has always been important to me and my family). I agree, this world is in
    need of betterment. :) I'm attempting to achieve just that, despite the obstacles placed in the way. I'm looking forward to many years myself,
    and I hope we both get them!

    I'm probably closer to some Eastern ideas. There is a bit of Pagan and Buddhist flavouring in the mix, though the blend is something unique to me. :)

    Well met my friend!

    Hope to chat further. :)


    ... Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Wednesday, October 10, 2018 17:30:23
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Vk3jed to Argelian on Thu Oct 11 2018 09:35 am

    I don't believe you need an organised religion to have a moral compass, just a well developed sense of spirituality.

    I'm not sure you even necessarily need to have a sense of spirituality to have good morals. To me, "spirituality" implies a sense of belief in an everlasting spirit, possible belief in a god, etc. (maybe I'm wrong). I think you can still know right and wrong even if you don't believe in spiritual things.

    In fact, I see many people
    who use religion as an _excuse_ to do evil things, which can be very insidious, because it can legitimise evil in the eyes of some. Things from ostracision and bollying to murder and genocide have been done in the name of religion over the centuries.

    Yeah, I've heard the same. I've also heard of people who have said they believe interracial marriage is wrong and said it's because of the bible. I'd like to know the bible passage(s) they think supports that belief. I've never really read or studied the bible, so I couldn't think of it off the top of my head, but I'd have a hard time believing that the bible would say interracial marriage is wrong. I'd tend to think God would want us all to learn to get along..

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thursday, October 11, 2018 13:02:00
    On 10-10-18 13:19, Nightfox wrote to Argelian <=-

    meet, and your children (if you have any), etc., who will outlive you.
    I'd rather leave the world with something good that I have contributed
    in some way.

    I want to leave the world in a better state than I found it, in otherwords, do things that help people and the environment and leave a positive legacy that continues to benefit after I'm gone.


    ... Reality is for people who can't cope with their drugs.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thursday, October 11, 2018 14:14:00
    On 10-10-18 17:30, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'm not sure you even necessarily need to have a sense of spirituality
    to have good morals. To me, "spirituality" implies a sense of belief
    in an everlasting spirit, possible belief in a god, etc. (maybe I'm wrong). I think you can still know right and wrong even if you don't believe in spiritual things.

    It's a belief in something bigger and more important than yourself. It doesn't have to be a deity. The Universe or Nature are other things that can invoke a sense of spirituality, and neither are a god or other deity. I also don't consider it unreasonable to get the same sense from humanity (one for the humanists :) ).

    Yeah, I've heard the same. I've also heard of people who have said
    they believe interracial marriage is wrong and said it's because of the bible. I'd like to know the bible passage(s) they think supports that belief. I've never really read or studied the bible, so I couldn't
    think of it off the top of my head, but I'd have a hard time believing that the bible would say interracial marriage is wrong. I'd tend to
    think God would want us all to learn to get along..

    Yes, another example of the way religion is abused as a tool of power for control of the masses.


    ... Some people grow under responsibility. Others merely swell up.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Draco on Thursday, October 11, 2018 20:07:21
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Draco to MRO on Wed Oct 10 2018 10:12 am


    There are plenty out there. My friend sure blamed him, almost on a manic paranoid level.


    well he is crazy, that's not the way normal people are.

    i dont see anything wrong with them thanking god for good fortune. it's not hurting anybody. if they decide to give credit to god, let them.


    I don't see it as health. It feeds into the dependence on their god and church for everything. Dependence on the church leaves people open for abuse.

    i've known a lot of church going people and they are doing fine.

    I don't have a bias against religion, there are plenty of religions that don't control their followers. I have a bias against controlling organizations and misinformation. This not only includes controlling religions, but also
    fascists governments as well.


    well, spend less time thinking about it.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thursday, October 11, 2018 20:08:55
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Nightfox to Argelian on Wed Oct 10 2018 01:15 pm

    I'm the same, I don't fear death itself, I just hope I die in a peaceful and painless way. There's also the possible issue of not doing all the things you want to do before you die, but I still don't fear death itself. I know I'm not going to live forever.


    if you found out you had cancer and had six months to live, you would FEAR death and realize that you took life for granted and see everything in another light. atleast i hope you would.
    ---
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  • From Clifra@VERT/DOOBBS to MRO on Friday, October 26, 2018 08:16:46
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Oct 11 2018 08:08 pm

    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Nightfox to Argelian on Wed Oct 10 2018 01:15 pm

    I'm the same, I don't fear death itself, I just hope I die in a peaceful and painless way. There's also the possible issue of not doing all the things you want to do before you die, but I still don't fear death
    itself. I know I'm not going to live forever.


    if you found out you had cancer and had six months to live, you would FEAR death and realize that you took life for granted and see everything in another light. atleast i hope you would.

    I don't understand why you would want someone to spend the last days of thier life in fear and regret. As opposed to peaceful acceptence of the inevitable.


    Clifra Jones
    Sysop, Days of Old BBS
    Hostname: daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
    Protocols: Telnet, SSH (2222), HTTP

    ---
    Synchronet Days of Old BBS Telnet/SSH(2222)/Web daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Clifra on Friday, October 26, 2018 16:18:43
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Clifra to MRO on Fri Oct 26 2018 08:16 am

    if you found out you had cancer and had six months to live, you would FEAR death and realize that you took life for granted and see everything in another light. atleast i hope you would.

    I don't understand why you would want someone to spend the last days of thier life in fear and regret.

    it would show the person is a human being instead of an emotionless husk.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Clifra@VERT/DOOBBS to MRO on Friday, November 02, 2018 07:40:37
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Clifra on Fri Oct 26 2018 04:18 pm


    I don't understand why you would want someone to spend the last days of thier life in fear and regret.

    it would show the person is a human being instead of an emotionless husk.

    "Humanity is defined by that which we fear!"

    This so the kind of thinking that s the reason the world is so screwed up! Clifra Jones
    Sysop, Days of Old BBS
    Hostname: daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
    Protocols: Telnet, SSH (2222), HTTP

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Clifra on Friday, November 02, 2018 15:44:25
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Clifra to MRO on Fri Nov 02 2018 07:40 am

    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Clifra on Fri Oct 26 2018 04:18 pm


    I don't understand why you would want someone to spend the last days of thier life in fear and regret.

    it would show the person is a human being instead of an emotionless husk.

    "Humanity is defined by that which we fear!"

    who are you quoting?

    This so the kind of thinking that s the reason the world is so screwed up!

    no , it shows what you value and shows your character. you are too biased to see anything else than your own fear.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Clifra@VERT/DOOBBS to MRO on Friday, November 02, 2018 22:02:09
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Clifra on Fri Nov 02 2018 03:44 pm

    "Humanity is defined by that which we fear!"

    who are you quoting?

    Me, I just made that up.

    This so the kind of thinking that s the reason the world is so screwed
    up!

    no , it shows what you value and shows your character. you are too biased
    to see anything else than your own fear.

    No bias, not sure what bias has to do with the subject. My point is I and other are not ruled by fear. We do not fear the unknown. That is a basic flaw of humanity, fear, hatred and hostility to that which they do not know or understand. Wars and Genocide have occured due to this fear.

    Believe me I have no bias against religion. In many instances it serves a valid purpose. For instance, parents who fail to teach their children morality but do attend a good church, at least the church is teaching them that. What someone believes is their own business and I understand that in some religions evangelizing is a part of the faith, which is fine as long as my right to say "no thank you" is respected.

    I have no fear of death. As Dr. House once said, "I refuse to accept that this life is some kind of grand test". I believe I have lived a decent life.

    As the Buddha said "Even death is not to be feared by one who has lived wisely" Clifra Jones
    Sysop, Days of Old BBS
    Hostname: daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
    Protocols: Telnet, SSH (2222), HTTP

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Clifra on Saturday, November 03, 2018 18:52:03
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Clifra to MRO on Fri Nov 02 2018 10:02 pm

    No bias, not sure what bias has to do with the subject. My point is I and other are not ruled by fear. We do not fear the unknown. That is a basic flaw of humanity, fear, hatred and hostility to that which they do not know

    if you say so. i'm not talking about the fear of what happens when you die. ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Draco@VERT/LOKISDEN to MRO on Sunday, January 06, 2019 17:21:36
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Draco to MRO on Wed Oct 10 2018 10:12 am


    There are plenty out there. My friend sure blamed him, almost on a manic paranoid level.


    well he is crazy, that's not the way normal people are.


    She's a she. I hate to burst your bubble, but lots of people are like that. Exactly
    like that. Throw all credit to "God" when things go right, and blame "the devil"
    when it goes bad. This is the modern Evangelicals think.

    i dont see anything wrong with them thanking god for good fortune. it's not hurting anybody. if they decide to give credit to god, let them.


    I don't see it as health. It feeds into the dependence on their god and church for everything. Dependence on the church leaves people open for abuse.

    i've known a lot of church going people and they are doing fine.


    Me too, and a lot of these nut jobs not only voted for Trump, they think he's the
    second coming. Brainwashed cultists, every one of them.

    I don't have a bias against religion, there are plenty of religions that don't control their followers. I have a bias against controlling organizations and misinformation. This not only includes controlling religions, but also
    fascists governments as well.


    well, spend less time thinking about it.

    No. Fuck no. I refuse to stop thinking for myself. Without critical thinking, I'd
    just be another mindless sheep being lead to the slaughter.

    Draco

    ---
    Synchronet Loki's Den BBS - http://lokisdenbbs.com
  • From Roadhog@VERT/OUTWEST to DaiTengu on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 10:25:27
    Re: Re: Not religious but enj
    By: DaiTengu to Dumas Walker on Wed Jan 30 2019 08:27 am

    That's generally how it works with new presidencies. And let's be real. He's not getting another term. he has a 39% approval rating. If the Republicans want to keep control of the executive branch, they'll run a primary opponent against him.

    Dream on lol Trump will get a second term, ratings mean nothing, If he gets the Wall built that's a 2nd term guarenteed.
    The Dems have either washed up people like Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders Or crazy radicals like Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand etc..
    Only way Trump loses is if Republicans find someone who can beat him.

    That's not even remotely true. Democrats don't want to get everyone dependant upon the government, that's some Alex Jones level bullshit right there.
    Oh really? Look at Gavin Newsome wanting to force california into a state ran health care system, and Kamala Harris would like to do the same on the feseral level.
    wake up the left wants us to become socialist and communist.

    ---
    Synchronet outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Porosz@VERT/AMIGAC to MRO on Monday, August 26, 2019 13:55:34
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Oct 11 2018 20:08:55

    death and realize that you took life for granted and see everything in another light. atleast i hope you would.


    You may see in a differnt light, but do not shine that flashlight in peoples eyes. It becomes so distracting they miss the point and die. ALSO, if someone if there is a shiney light, do not "walk into the light".........
    watch 1000 ways to die, then pick one.

    => POROSZ <=

    ---
    Synchronet Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 3,500+ files
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Porosz on Monday, August 26, 2019 16:16:28
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Porosz to MRO on Mon Aug 26 2019 01:55 pm

    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Oct 11 2018 20:08:55


    You may see in a differnt light, but do not shine that flashlight in peop

    notice you are replying to a msg from october 2018
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Monday, August 26, 2019 15:17:11
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Porosz on Mon Aug 26 2019 04:16 pm

    notice you are replying to a msg from october 2018

    And?

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Monday, August 26, 2019 19:06:57
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Aug 26 2019 03:17 pm

    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Porosz on Mon Aug 26 2019 04:16 pm

    notice you are replying to a msg from october 2018

    And?

    AND, i dont want to dig up old discussions from a year ago. it's stupid and pointless.
    ---
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to MRO on Friday, August 30, 2019 14:45:54
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Aug 26 2019 07:06 pm

    notice you are replying to a msg from october 2018

    And?

    AND, i dont want to dig up old discussions from a year ago. it's stupid and pointless.

    Yes, let's try and stifle discussion in these low traffic echos!

    DaiTengu

    ... Old fishermen never die, they just smell that way.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to DaiTengu on Friday, August 30, 2019 13:03:36
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: DaiTengu to MRO on Fri Aug 30 2019 02:45 pm

    AND, i dont want to dig up old discussions from a year ago. it's
    stupid and pointless.

    Yes, let's try and stifle discussion in these low traffic echos!

    Yeah, genius idea.. Why didn't I think of that? ;)

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Friday, October 25, 2019 14:03:37
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Fri Aug 30 2019 01:03 pm

    Yes, let's try and stifle discussion in these low traffic echos!

    Yeah, genius idea.. Why didn't I think of that? ;)

    If I don't have a Religion can I still post in here? What was this area created for anyway? Religion..what? Debates? To sell a religion? Help Allah? What?


    Havens BBS

    SysOp: HusTler

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to HusTler on Friday, October 25, 2019 12:39:22
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: HusTler to Nightfox on Fri Oct 25 2019 02:03 pm

    If I don't have a Religion can I still post in here? What was this area created for anyway? Religion..what? Debates? To sell a religion? Help Allah? What?

    As far as I can tell, this sub-board is for discussing religion, and you don't have to have a religion to discuss religion.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Friday, October 25, 2019 17:31:00
    Nightfox wrote to HusTler <=-

    If I don't have a Religion can I still post in here? What was this area created for anyway? Religion..what? Debates? To sell a religion? Help Allah? What?

    As far as I can tell, this sub-board is for discussing religion,
    and you don't have to have a religion to discuss religion.

    Indeed. You can even discuss religion if you are losing your
    religion...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtdhWltSIg



    ... Facts cannot prevail against faith, or adamant folly.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Lupine Furmen@VERT/FURFOL to Gamgee on Monday, October 28, 2019 15:19:06
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Fri Oct 25 2019 17:31:00

    ... Facts cannot prevail against faith, or adamant folly.

    Facts trump Faith EVERY time! Faith is having a belief in something and HOPING that it's true. Facts are true regardless if you believe in them or not.
    -+-

    -Dallas Vinson
    Furmens Folly - telnet: loybbs.net:23
    SSH: loybbs.net:23222
    Before the Web - telnet: loybbs.net:23232
    Legends of Yesteryear - telnet: loybbs.net:23322

    ---
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Lupine Furmen on Monday, October 28, 2019 20:11:00
    Lupine Furmen wrote to Gamgee <=-

    ... Facts cannot prevail against faith, or adamant folly.

    Facts trump Faith EVERY time! Faith is having a belief in
    something and HOPING that it's true. Facts are true regardless if
    you believe in them or not. -+-

    Well, in all fairness... that was the TAGLINE to the message that
    I posted (that you snipped). It's just......... a tagline.

    I would say though that instead of using the word HOPING where you
    did there above, it would be more true to say "BELIEVING". And
    facts...... can be tricky sometimes, because they're not always
    true... :-)



    ... Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Gamgee on Sunday, November 24, 2019 15:25:45
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Fri Oct 25 2019 05:31 pm

    If I don't have a Religion can I still post in here? What was this area
    created for anyway? Religion..what? Debates? To sell a religion? Help

    As far as I can tell, this sub-board is for discussing religion,
    and you don't have to have a religion to discuss religion.

    Indeed. You can even discuss religion if you are losing your
    religion...

    I lost mine years ago. These days I refer to myself as a recovering Catholic. ;-) but I'm always up for a debate about the existence of God. As Science explains more and more about our world I have a hard time believing in the unseen and the stories of old. But I guess that's just me. ;-)

    Havens BBS

    SysOp: HusTler

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to HusTler on Sunday, November 24, 2019 14:13:04
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: HusTler to Gamgee on Sun Nov 24 2019 03:25 pm

    I lost mine years ago. These days I refer to myself as a recovering Catholic. ;-) but I'm always up for a debate about the existence of God. As Science explains more and more about our world I have a hard time believing in the unseen and the stories of old. But I guess that's just me. ;-)

    I don't consider myself intensely religious, but even as we discover more about the universe, I don't think that completely rules out the universe being created by a being of some kind.

    There's also a conspiracy theory that some people believe the universe we live in is just a computer simulation, similar to The Matrix. I've heard Elon Musk (CEO of Tesla) even believes we're living in a simulation..

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to HusTler on Monday, November 25, 2019 18:25:00
    On 11-24-19 15:25, HusTler wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I lost mine years ago. These days I refer to myself as a recovering Catholic. ;-) but I'm always up for a debate about the existence of

    I'm former Church of England. :)

    God. As Science explains more and more about our world I have a hard
    time believing in the unseen and the stories of old. But I guess that's just me. ;-)

    I could be considered an agnostic athiest. I don't believe in a deity, but I also believe it's not possible to scientifically prove or disprove the existence of a deity, or whether the Universe is really the Matrix, because such things come from outside our reality, beyond our ability to detect them.

    I do believe in spiritual connections, but in my belief system, this is a property of the Universe, and that life and intelligence are an emergent property of our Universe. In essence, we are the Universe trying to understand itself.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 22:55:11
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Vk3jed to HusTler on Mon Nov 25 2019 06:25 pm

    I could be considered an agnostic athiest. I don't believe in a deity, but I also believe it's not possible to scientifically prove or disprove the existence of a deity, or whether the Universe is really the Matrix, because such things come from outside our reality, beyond our ability to detect them.

    Scientists/physicists these days have String Theory, which seems to be related to multiverse theory. I imagine scientists may eventually come up with a way to prove or disprove that. If multiverse theory is true and proven true, then that would mean we would have a way to detect something outside of our reality (or at least our universe).

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 19:23:00
    On 11-26-19 22:55, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Scientists/physicists these days have String Theory, which seems to be related to multiverse theory. I imagine scientists may eventually come

    Some variants of string theory do allow for multiple parallel universes

    up with a way to prove or disprove that. If multiverse theory is true
    and proven true, then that would mean we would have a way to detect something outside of our reality (or at least our universe).

    Well, this is where things get interesting. Directly proving string theory at this time appears to be impossible, because of the extremely small dimensions of the strings. Between the amound of energy required to observe something small, combined with quantim effects such as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle and observer effects, combined with the effects of the extreme observational energies, it's difficult to see how strings might be directly observed.

    As for indirect proof, mathematical proofs may come, but they would be harder to verify.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:53:26
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Tue Nov 26 2019 10:55 pm

    Scientists/physicists these days have String Theory, which seems to be relat to multiverse theory. I imagine scientists may eventually come up with a wa to prove or disprove that. If multiverse theory is true and proven true, th that would mean we would have a way to detect something outside of our reali (or at least our universe).



    i dont know if anybody else has experience this, but if i ever have a near death accident where i get out of it, like a near miss car accident, or whatever.. i have a feeling that someplace else the opposite happened and i can almost feel what it's like over there.

    i think everything is connected somehow, so maybe i am feeling some multiverse cause and effect.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thursday, November 28, 2019 13:31:10
    Re: Re: Not religious but enjoying church
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Nov 28 2019 12:53 pm

    i dont know if anybody else has experience this, but if i ever have a near death accident where i get out of it, like a near miss car accident, or whatever.. i have a feeling that someplace else the opposite happened and i can almost feel what it's like over there.

    i think everything is connected somehow, so maybe i am feeling some multiverse cause and effect.

    That may be true.

    Nightfox

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