Officiated a funeral today. The lady that died was an outspoken Christian ye failed to regularly attend any church. I am always amazed by the number of people that "love Jesus" but fail to love the people Jesus died to save. I understand that many people have had bad experiences in their past and use t as an excuse not to attend church or "organized religion". However, Jesus directed His closest friends to establish an organized religion.
What church do you plan to attend this week?
Re: Question?
By: Obuing to All on Tue Feb 11 2014 20:40:27
Officiated a funeral today. The lady that died was an outspoken Christian failed to regularly attend any church. I am always amazed by the number o people that "love Jesus" but fail to love the people Jesus died to save. understand that many people have had bad experiences in their past and us as an excuse not to attend church or "organized religion". However, Jesus directed His closest friends to establish an organized religion.
What church do you plan to attend this week?
I would faithfully disagree with you my friend. The religions of today, and I am not picking on either faith, have seriously lost their way in "teaching the word of God or the "following" Jesus and truly "living" the life that he did so many years ago. Attending a church, "regularly", does not guarentee spot in heaven. I know many people, who attend church regularly, that are very evil in their ways. But, since they attend church regularly, that must mean that they will get that spot in heaven?
In Matthew 17-18 <NIV> Jesus replied "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."
Jesus was not referring to a "church" of brick and mortar, but His church, which is faith.
Jesus only gave two commandments, which are To Love your God with all of heart, mind, and soul. Also, to love thy neighbor as you would love yourself.
Now, I can clearly understand why so many people are turning away from "organized religions", especially during these times. Many churches are leaning toward to what makes you "feel better" about yourself instead of teaching Biblical scriptures. Many of the "organzied" super mega churches are falling right into the enemy's hands, and I mean Lucifer's, by teaching New Age in their churches.
So, one must ask themselves, do you place your faith in God, or in brick and mortar?
Also, before passing judement on someone, who by all means is still a child of God, maybe there should be a little self analysis of your life and how yo conduct yourself daily.
I didn't mean to offend you, but I find it hard to fathom that a TRUE believer would be very judgmental on someone who was recently called home to God.
Respectfully,
Charon
riverstyx.darktech.org
Re: Question?
By: Charon to Obuing on Wed Feb 12 2014 03:42 pm
Re: Question?
By: Obuing to All on Tue Feb 11 2014 20:40:27
Officiated a funeral today. The lady that died was an outspoken Christ failed to regularly attend any church. I am always amazed by the numbe people that "love Jesus" but fail to love the people Jesus died to sav understand that many people have had bad experiences in their past and as an excuse not to attend church or "organized religion". However, Je directed His closest friends to establish an organized religion.
What church do you plan to attend this week?
I would faithfully disagree with you my friend. The religions of today, I am not picking on either faith, have seriously lost their way in "teach the word of God or the "following" Jesus and truly "living" the life that did so many years ago. Attending a church, "regularly", does not guarent spot in heaven. I know many people, who attend church regularly, that ar very evil in their ways. But, since they attend church regularly, that m mean that they will get that spot in heaven?
In Matthew 17-18 <NIV> Jesus replied "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and gates of Hades will not overcome it."
Jesus was not referring to a "church" of brick and mortar, but His church which is faith.
Jesus only gave two commandments, which are To Love your God with all of heart, mind, and soul. Also, to love thy neighbor as you would love yourself.
Now, I can clearly understand why so many people are turning away from "organized religions", especially during these times. Many churches are leaning toward to what makes you "feel better" about yourself instead of teaching Biblical scriptures. Many of the "organzied" super mega churche are falling right into the enemy's hands, and I mean Lucifer's, by teachi New Age in their churches.
So, one must ask themselves, do you place your faith in God, or in brick mortar?
Also, before passing judement on someone, who by all means is still a chi of God, maybe there should be a little self analysis of your life and how conduct yourself daily.
I didn't mean to offend you, but I find it hard to fathom that a TRUE believer would be very judgmental on someone who was recently called home God.
Respectfully,
Charon
riverstyx.darktech.org
How can you accuse me of judging if you aren't making a judgement. Scripture says to judge rightly. "Do not judge, so that you won't be judged. For with judgement you use, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2. This teaches that God does judge, and we should refrain from judgement where possible. However, it doesn't teach to ignore wrong. If someone murdered your family, you would rightly judge their actions to be evil and desire justice.
Your post was offensive and was a flame. However, I'll hang in if you want t hash this out. You doctorine of salvation is way off if you think anyone is saved by attending organized religion and that is NOT what I said. No one is saved from the consequences of their sinful behavior without an intervention Jesus Christ. Only by relationship with him will one avoid judgement because will be the judge.
The Church was designed by God for fellowship between believers and Himself. It's not that you can't worship God on your own. You can. But you cannot experience the community of joint believers getting through life (and persecution) without a gathering of like faith. This is church. If you don't like one community of believers, then find another one. They are NOT all the same. In church you will learn from each other and become much stronger in y faith . . . and you might even make some friends.
Charon wrote to Obuing <=-
Re: Question?
By: Charon to Obuing on Wed Feb 12 2014 03:42 pm
Re: Question?
By: Obuing to All on Tue Feb 11 2014 20:40:27
How can you accuse me of judging if you aren't making a judgement. Scripture says to judge rightly. "Do not judge, so that you won't be judged. For with judgement you use, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2. This teaches that God does judge, and we should refrain from judgement where possible. However, it doesn't teach to ignore wrong. If someone murdered your family, you would rightly judge their actions to be evil and desire justice.
Your post was offensive and was a flame. However, I'll hang in if you want t hash this out. You doctorine of salvation is way off if you think anyone is saved by attending organized religion and that is NOT what I said. No one is saved from the consequences of their sinful behavior without an intervention Jesus Christ. Only by relationship with him will one avoid judgement because will be the judge.
The Church was designed by God for fellowship between believers and Himself. It's not that you can't worship God on your own. You can. But you cannot experience the community of joint believers getting through life (and persecution) without a gathering of like faith. This is church. If you don't like one community of believers, then find another one. They are NOT all the same. In church you will learn from each other and become much stronger in y faith . . . and you might even make some friends.
First, my response was not a "flame" and if you have taken it as so,
then obviously it has struck a nerve. I am not bashing you, only
pointing out that
there are people out there that like to judge the actions of others without looking at there own lives. I see it eveyday, and guess what, they do it in the name of Jesus. I disagrree with your comment that
"God is the church". God is not the church. The "church" is Jesus
Christ. The physical churches, or organized religions, are man's
attempt to understand God, in which we fail miserably. Most of the suffering, conflict, etc in our lives is due to our "religious"
beliefs. If you do not believe me, then why would responding to your
post be so offensive, and a "flame"? Also, religions bring about war.
Man kind has fought over beliefs for thousands of years. But, I
digress and I do not want to sound negative on this subject.
On a onther note, I did not "judge" you or any organized religion. However, the post that you officated a funeral for a lady who was an "outspoken Christi an" who did not attend church regularly and then say that you were "amazed how people who claim to love Jesus, but fail to
love the people he dies for" sounds a little judgemental on your part.
I understand that you are strong in your faith, and that you have your core beliefs, and I applaud you for that. However, faith left
untested, is not truly faith at all. I love God, the Father Almighty.
I also love his son, Jesus, who came to this earth, lived as a man, and dies for all of us.
If someone murdered my family, you are correct to say that I would want
to seek justice. However, I am supposed to forgive that person, or persons, of their actions and let God handle the rest. This is placing
my faith truly in God. Now, on a serious note, it would be hard to do
so and I would most likely seek that justice out, which is something
that God definately would not want me to do. There is a fine line
between justice and vengenance.
So, I would be more than happy, and open, to discuss my faith, beliefs, etc with you. However, to say that my response was "offensive" or a "flame" is juvenile in thought and only shows that you yourself would
like to start a "flame" over this discussion.
Charon wrote to Obuing <=-
Re: Question?
By: Charon to Obuing on Wed Feb 12 2014 03:42 pm
Re: Question?
By: Obuing to All on Tue Feb 11 2014 20:40:27
[snip]
How can you accuse me of judging if you aren't making a judgement. Script says to judge rightly. "Do not judge, so that you won't be judged. For wi judgement you use, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it wi measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2. This teaches that God does judge, and we should refrain from judgement where possible. However, it doesn't teach t ignore wrong. If someone murdered your family, you would rightly judge th actions to be evil and desire justice.
Your post was offensive and was a flame. However, I'll hang in if you wan hash this out. You doctorine of salvation is way off if you think anyone saved by attending organized religion and that is NOT what I said. No one saved from the consequences of their sinful behavior without an intervent Jesus Christ. Only by relationship with him will one avoid judgement beca will be the judge.
The Church was designed by God for fellowship between believers and Himse It's not that you can't worship God on your own. You can. But you cannot experience the community of joint believers getting through life (and persecution) without a gathering of like faith. This is church. If you do like one community of believers, then find another one. They are NOT all same. In church you will learn from each other and become much stronger i faith . . . and you might even make some friends.
First, my response was not a "flame" and if you have taken it as so, then obviously it has struck a nerve. I am not bashing you, only pointing out that
there are people out there that like to judge the actions of others without looking at there own lives. I see it eveyday, and guess what, they do it in the name of Jesus. I disagrree with your comment that "God is the church". God is not the church. The "church" is Jesus Christ. The physical churches, or organized religions, are man's attempt to understand God, in which we fail miserably. Most of the suffering, conflict, etc in our lives is due to our "religious" beliefs. If you do not believe me, then why would responding to your post be so offensive, and a "flame"? Also, religions bring about war. Man kind has fought over beliefs for thousands of years. But, I digress and I do not want to sound negative on this subject.
On a onther note, I did not "judge" you or any organized religion. However, the post that you officated a funeral for a lady who was an "outspoken Christi an" who did not attend church regularly and then say that you were "amazed how people who claim to love Jesus, but fail to love the people he dies for" sounds a little judgemental on your part. I understand that you are strong in your faith, and that you have your core beliefs, and I applaud you for that. However, faith left untested, is not truly faith at all. I love God, the Father Almighty. I also love his son, Jesus, who came to this earth, lived as a man, and dies for all of us.
If someone murdered my family, you are correct to say that I would want to seek justice. However, I am supposed to forgive that person, or persons, of their actions and let God handle the rest. This is placing my faith truly in God. Now, on a serious note, it would be hard to do so and I would most likely seek that justice out, which is something that God definately would not want me to do. There is a fine line between justice and vengenance.
So, I would be more than happy, and open, to discuss my faith, beliefs, etc with you. However, to say that my response was "offensive" or a "flame" is juvenile in thought and only shows that you yourself would like to start a "flame" over this discussion.
Well said. I feel as if the confusion stems with the actual description peo derive from the word "church". There is a spiritualistic church, where one c feel solice in knowing the relationship between God and themselves is strong thus the mirroring effect of Christ's teachings comes from within. There is physical chruch where others gather to celebrate their beliefs together. On doesn't outshine the other. There are many who feel it is their way or the highway.
I've done pretty extensive travels throughout the country seeing the differe "sects" of Christianity, some postive, some not so. The Bible is not a chine menu as some people feels it is to the point they only choose the verse that proves the point they are trying to make at the time. Leviticus seems to be the most prevelent for some in choosing to pick certain areas because it is "convienent" to prove a point. It rests in two crucial beliefs, the world w created "good" and while being vunerable to sin and a faithful enactment of ritual making God's presence available. Ignoring it compromises the harmony between God and the world. This book was the basis of organized thoughts of "church". To me, this was a way of control, where rules brought about were t foundation of centralized worship through the guidence of a centralized pastorhood. We must also remember material was consistantly added over a 200 year period, which makes me tend to believe it was the rabbinical "Law du Jo for control.
For me, Christ came not to condone these practices but to destroy the very foundation. Remember, the years following Christ's death most were illitera printed material was extremely limited and thus the staus quo on formation o communities where the "Teachings" were discussed and shared. Our abilities h expanded well beyond those of 2,000 years ago could have ever imagined. Whe Christ told Simon, "Upon you I will build My church", he wasn't looking upon Simon as a building but someone who'll spread the Word to all and let them decide on how to praise Jesus and his Father in an internal, spiritual desig Christ knew "Centers of Worship" become corrupt over time and to this day it still true. (Remember that little "romp" through the temple)
I was born and raised Roman Catholic. Spent 12 years of parochial schooling and even started my college expereince at a RC university. I am happy to st that I can finally experience a Pope that has reversed the status quo of mega-chruches, hierarchy and the likes and got back to the basics of guardin his flock. He understands he's a man who must guide all, who must understan we're all responsible for our decisions, good or bad in each person's life. Where man's fears will always guide his decisions. Where those in power can will instill their fears upon others for the simple fact, they can.
In conclusion, the teachings are there, the path to those teachings is wider than ever. No man or woman has the right to judge another based solely on th fears. How one chooses to worship our Lord and Savior is up to the individu Live your life in a one on One basis or within a community, the choice is up you... but please understand, neither maybe right for the other. We only hav one "Judge"... and we'll all be before Him before we know it. Live and let live, worship and let worship is my mantra.
Enjoy!
Bill
Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
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... Motorcycles are everywhere... Look twice, save a life!!
How can you accuse me of judging if you aren't making a judgement.
Scripture says to judge rightly. "Do not judge, so that you won't be
judged. For with judgement you use, you will be judged and with the
measure you use, it will measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2. This
teaches that God does judge, and we should refrain from judgement
where possible. However, it doesn't teach to ignore wrong. If
someone murdered your family, you would rightly judge their actions
to be evil and desire justice.
Charon wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-
... Motorcycles are everywhere... Look twice, save a life!!
Bill,
Thank you for your input and I could not agree with you more. My
previous posts were not to offend anyone, but to only point out that people should not judge another person's beliefs or way of life,
without considering what path this person's life has gone down and what they have experienced.
It really makes me upset that one cannot share their beliefs without stioll being ridiculed. This is happening all over the world, and yes, even in The United States. I have watch numerous pastors make large
sums of money "selling" salvation to those that are unaware that by
simply seeking out Jesus yourself, salvation is yours for the taking.
Many of the "churches", organized religions, have lost their way and
have placed the value of money over the needs of their parishioners and the teachings of Christ.
Let's face it, we have no clue who God is, what he is like, or how we
will be judge when we leave this world and stand before Him. We only
have scriptures to tell us about God, which you pray have not been too totally corrupted by man. We have created numerous "religions" in our failed attempt to understand our Creator.
Man kind is a "prideful" creation and the previous post, and what is happening in our world only demonstrates that latter of the point. We
are so "head strong" that "our way" is the right way, that we often do more damage than we do help.
Many people forget that hristianity, along with several other major religions, was spread wrongly and with dire consequences. It was
either you "accepted" Christ or be put to death. That was the truth. However, will this cause me to walk away from, or deny Christianity?
No, I am a Christian and I do not need a "building" or a "person" to
save me or tell me how I should worship God or how I should understand
and love Jesus. This actually goes againts the only two commandments
that Jesus gave which were to Love your God with all of your heart,
soul, and mind. Love your neighbor as you would love yourself.
I am just frustrated that "people" judge others, espcially when serving
in a minsterial role and think just becuause of their "role" that they have a direct conduit to God.
People need to wake up and realize that Lucifer is in many of these religious organizations, which are not fully teaching "true"
Chrisitanity, and this will even further his conquest against man kind.
Seek salvation in Christ, not in a man-made structure or a man. People tend to forget that we humans are sinful in nature, and just becuase we have been "saved" does not mean that we get the first class ticket to Heaven.
Thank you for listenting to my thoughts and ideas!
Charon wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-
... Motorcycles are everywhere... Look twice, save a life!!
Bill,
Thank you for your input and I could not agree with you more. My previous posts were not to offend anyone, but to only point out that people should not judge another person's beliefs or way of life, without considering what path this person's life has gone down and what they have experienced.
No one knows anything about anyone unless they're family. I know this may to the wrong buttons to a few, you included, but 2 months ago when Missouri was playing in the Cotton Bowl, how many were sitting in the stands cheering Michael Sam not knowing he was gay. Although the US has come a long way in accepting gays into everyday life, there will always be a few who, before he came out cheered him yet after, judged him to hell. Fear is a strange bedfellow.
It really makes me upset that one cannot share their beliefs without stioll being ridiculed. This is happening all over the world, and yes, even in The United States. I have watch numerous pastors make large sums of money "selling" salvation to those that are unaware that by simply seeking out Jesus yourself, salvation is yours for the taking.
In my travels through the south and mid-west, I found the "mega-churches" on par with the "golden cow". Hey, even the RC's thought bigger was better whe it came to places of worship. Again, this was the status quo with a touch o "keeping up with the Jones'". I was dating a girl who was a Mormon, but excommunicated. In hindsight, I can see why they had issues with her being memeber of their congregation, but that's another story. Being open-minded wanting to satisfy her desire to see where John Smith was born and the foundation for the LDS, I took her to Palmyra, NY. Naturally there were custodians, or missionaries as they called themselves, who cared for the sit and also gave tours. I'll not pass judgement on the basis of their beliefs b it was a nice dog and pony show. One thing that did impress me was once he knew I was a RC, he backed off... we just talked about our similarities with him going full blown evangelistic on me. Was a pleasant time. He was a spr young 78, so I enjoyed hearing his stories at the time.
Many of the "churches", organized religions, have lost their way and have placed the value of money over the needs of their parishioners and the teachings of Christ.
That's why I respect our new Pope. Although he can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater, he is doing his best to refocus the Church on it's true mission.
Let's face it, we have no clue who God is, what he is like, or how we will be judge when we leave this world and stand before Him. We only have scriptures to tell us about God, which you pray have not been too totally corrupted by man. We have created numerous "religions" in our failed attempt to understand our Creator.
In a way we all know what God means to us as individuals. That scares peopl sometimes. There is no easy way when dealing with life, God and the message we receive everyday from others claiming theirs is the one "true" way. The Bible to me, is like the Rand-McNally to the afterlife, no matter where you wind up. To say the end justifies the means is one way of looking at it. J as there's a direct way of getting from NY to California in the shortest possible time, there are many more ways as well. It may take you longer, bu find that interesting as one will "experience" life. God gave us free will, choose how we feel is the right path. Some don't choose so well, some do. I on a path myself and I will never judge another because he's taking a differ path.
Man kind is a "prideful" creation and the previous post, and what is happening in our world only demonstrates that latter of the point. We are so "head strong" that "our way" is the right way, that we often do more damage than we do help.
Agreed.... today's pride equates to "$" and who's got the largest cross in their front yard. Jesus taught humility above all. For some strange reason can see Him looking down at a few, shaking His head and say... "WTF??"
Deifnately a "BIG" black eye for Christianity. Again, man trying to force the will of God on others.Many people forget that hristianity, along with several other major religions, was spread wrongly and with dire consequences. It was either you "accepted" Christ or be put to death. That was the truth. However, will this cause me to walk away from, or deny Christianity? No, I am a Christian and I do not need a "building" or a "person" to save me or tell me how I should worship God or how I should understand and love Jesus. This actually goes againts the only two commandments that Jesus gave which were to Love your God with all of your heart, soul, and mind. Love your neighbor as you would love yourself.
Ahhh.... the "Inquisition". What a shining moment... :(
I am just frustrated that "people" judge others, espcially when serving in a minsterial role and think just becuause of their "role" that they have a direct conduit to God.
Old joke among alter boys... about the priest's knowing God's telelphone # a letting everyone know what it was during the Dominus vobiscom... we'd all ha to answer... "et cum spiritu tuo".. translated as "ETCOM Spiri Two Two O". Hey, we were kids... it was funny. :)
People need to wake up and realize that Lucifer is in many of these religious organizations, which are not fully teaching "true" Chrisitanity, and this will even further his conquest against man kind.
Always seek the "Evil Within...". Westboro comes to mind..
Seek salvation in Christ, not in a man-made structure or a man. People tend to forget that we humans are sinful in nature, and just becuase we have been "saved" does not mean that we get the first class ticket to Heaven.
Hey, I've booked on United already... don't say that...
Thank you for listenting to my thoughts and ideas!
Likewise.. it's been fun and knowledgable.
Bill
Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
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... Motorcycles are everywhere... Look twice, save a life!!
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