I'm in my second week of learning Visual Basic 2005, and being one who has always programmed with procedural languages, getting a grasp of OOP is slightly more difficult then I thought.
I'm going through the Wrox Beginning Visual Basic 2005, and though I'm understanding what the example programs are doing (for the most part), at this point I'm not sure I could put all these tools together to create a production program if I had to. I think it'l click eventually, but I need to get this stuff down sooner then later.
Any advise? For me, I learn by example and by practice, so I hope to soon come-up with a simple program idea and write it in VB2005. If I can
come-up with some program that uses all the major items I've learned thus far (enumerators, structures, arrays, loops, etc), that should help bring
it all together. Plus, trial and error is always a good way to learn :)
Re: Learning OOP (VB2005)
By: Sam Alexander to All on Mon Jul 23 2007 15:22:00
I'm in my second week of learning Visual Basic 2005, and being one who ha always programmed with procedural languages, getting a grasp of OOP is slightly more difficult then I thought.
I'm going through the Wrox Beginning Visual Basic 2005, and though I'm understanding what the example programs are doing (for the most part), at this point I'm not sure I could put all these tools together to create a production program if I had to. I think it'l click eventually, but I nee to get this stuff down sooner then later.
Any advise? For me, I learn by example and by practice, so I hope to soo come-up with a simple program idea and write it in VB2005. If I can come-up with some program that uses all the major items I've learned thus far (enumerators, structures, arrays, loops, etc), that should help bring it all together. Plus, trial and error is always a good way to learn :)
I went through this procedural background to learning OOP concepts too, thou it wasn't under any time constraint. It was mainly Java that I learned OOP with. I think simply writing some small programs that demonstrate functional of some sort (i.e. one that does file I/O, one that uses a database, etc) wi help. You know how to do it procecurally and now you'll teach yourself how t do it with .net. The OOP aspect becomes apparent and more "natural" when you solve these small programming tasks several times.
What procedural languages do you consider as your programming background? An may I ask why you chose VB2005? I ask because I have a background in C whic many other languages are derived from or are similar too, and I have to say, is not similar to C. Having a C (and later Java) background I find it very difficult to "think" in VB. C# on the other hand feels much more comfortable Plus when learning OOP C# had it from the beginning, whereas it is a recent addition to VB (rewrite of the langauge really).
C# skills can also be translated to Java skills too as C# is so similar. Whereas VB locks you into, well VB.
Actually most of my coding as of late has been web-based, like ColdFusion, PHP, Python, etc. Many moons ago I did C++ and before that Basic and Pacal (talking 15+ years ago). My knowledge in these langauages has long since vanished, and though I know C++ is OOP, i don't remember working things out now in VB as I did then in C++... but then again my programs were all DOS-based console programs.
The more I write stuff (both small custom apps plus examples from the
book), I'm learning how the pieces of this puzzle fit together. I probably should work with C# as I think I would be more comfortable with it, but
here in my new job all the already written applications are using VB.
Being new to .Net, I figured it simpler to learn VB and pickup C# as I become more comfortable with the .Net Framework.
Re: Learning OOP (VB2005)
By: Sam Alexander to Trash80 on Thu Jul 26 2007 15:03:00
Actually most of my coding as of late has been web-based, like ColdFusion PHP, Python, etc. Many moons ago I did C++ and before that Basic and Pac (talking 15+ years ago). My knowledge in these langauages has long since vanished, and though I know C++ is OOP, i don't remember working things o now in VB as I did then in C++... but then again my programs were all DOS-based console programs.
The more I write stuff (both small custom apps plus examples from the book), I'm learning how the pieces of this puzzle fit together. I probab should work with C# as I think I would be more comfortable with it, but here in my new job all the already written applications are using VB. Being new to .Net, I figured it simpler to learn VB and pickup C# as I become more comfortable with the .Net Framework.
PHP is nice. I haven't tried Python but I'd like to one of these days. Our problem at work is that my shop is the web development cell of a smaller department and the IT department (which traditionally does application development) is a large, empire building behemoth that controls the intranet servers. Further, since this is federal government (Canadian) the capitol ha to approve technology. So in order to get a platform (be it PHP, .NET) I nee to get the larger IT department support in order to get approval from Ottawa
Anyway, this is why I am evaluating SharePoint as it would solve a problem w have with our unorganized intranet web sites and also give us (the web cell) development platform.
I think you're right on the money with the VB and .Net framework first, C# later idea considering your company's existing VB apps. I guess I am biased against VB .Net, not because of any lack of functionality but simply because hate the syntax!
As for web parts, when you do get started I'd like to hear your experiences I will be tackling the same thing down the road (if I get SharePoint approve of course).
Regards,
Doug
--
The Ville - Where 8-bits meet 32. Data: (902)442-2725 8N1 V.34 FidoNet: 1:255/36 Internet: theville.vintagecomputing.net
Any advise? For me, I learn by example and by practice, so I hope to soon come-up with a simple program idea and write it in VB2005. If I can
come-up with some program that uses all the major items I've learned thus far (enumerators, structures, arrays, loops, etc), that should help bring
it all together. Plus, trial and error is always a good way to learn :)
Again, any suggestions or advise?
What procedural languages do you consider as your programming background? And may I ask why you chose VB2005? I ask because I have a background in C which many other languages are derived from or are similar too, and I have to say, VB
is not similar to C. Having a C (and later Java) background I find it very difficult to "think" in VB. C# on the other hand feels much more comfortable. Plus when learning OOP C# had it from the beginning, whereas it is a recent addition to VB (rewrite of the langauge really).
C# skills can also be translated to Java skills too as C# is so similar. Whereas VB locks you into, well VB.
The more I write stuff (both small custom apps plus examples from the
book), I'm learning how the pieces of this puzzle fit together. I probably should work with C# as I think I would be more comfortable with it, but
here in my new job all the already written applications are using VB.
Being new to .Net, I figured it simpler to learn VB and pickup C# as I become more comfortable with the .Net Framework.
As for web parts, when you do get started I'd like to hear your experiences as
I will be tackling the same thing down the road (if I get SharePoint approved of course).
PHP is nice. I haven't tried Python but I'd like to one of these days. Our problem at work is that my shop is the web development cell of a smaller department and the IT department (which traditionally does application development) is a large, empire building behemoth that controls the intranet servers. Further, since this is federal government (Canadian) the capitol ha to approve technology. So in order to get a platform (be it PHP, .NET) I nee to get the larger IT department support in order to get approval from Ottawa
Anyway, this is why I am evaluating SharePoint as it would solve a problem w have with our unorganized intranet web sites and also give us (the web cell) development platform.
I think you're right on the money with the VB and .Net framework first, C# later idea considering your company's existing VB apps. I guess I am biased against VB .Net, not because of any lack of functionality but simply because hate the syntax!
As for web parts, when you do get started I'd like to hear your experiences I will be tackling the same thing down the road (if I get SharePoint approve of course).
As for working with VB, it's coming along thus far, but being we have both web apps and windows apps, it's learning both varieties of programming styles. My forte is web, so hopefully I'll pick-up the ASP.Net stuff
rather quickly, but the VB portion is taking longer then I hoped to grasp.
Yeah, if you've been doing web design before (html etc), then ASP.Net is a bear to learn and get a good grasp on.. a lot of the style is really similar to windows apps though, once you get used to it, though with windows apps, y wind up programming for a lot more events.
Glad to hear you are making progress just the same.
I have to agree, C# seems much more natural to me than VB.. though some argu that all the "wordy" syntax is easier to understand than all the {} .. shrug I find it easier to look for a tabbed out } than an "End While" .. may just me though.
SharePoint is a booger to learn, but I hear MOSS 2007 and WSS 3.0 is MUCH more functional then SPS 2003 and WSS 2.0, which is what I'm used to
working with.
As for working with VB, it's coming along thus far, but being we have both web apps and windows apps, it's learning both varieties of programming styles. My forte is web, so hopefully I'll pick-up the ASP.Net stuff
rather quickly, but the VB portion is taking longer then I hoped to grasp.
It'll come together, and it's fun learning something new ..
Without regards to the social ramifications;John Guillory wrote to Tracker1 <=-
Re: Re: Learning OOP (VB2005)
By: Tracker1 to Sam Alexander on Tue Jul 31 2007 06:09 pm
Yeah, if you've been doing web design before (html etc), then ASP.Net is a bear to learn and get a good grasp on.. a lot of the style is really similar to windows apps though, once you get used to it, though with windows apps, y wind up programming for a lot more events.
Glad to hear you are making progress just the same.
Golly That's a long time. Fraid I haven't been doing web design since before .html, what did they use before they used HyperText Markup
Language on the web?
Yeah, if you've been doing web design before (html etc), then ASP.Net is a >> bear to learn and get a good grasp on.. a lot of the style is really similar >> to windows apps though, once you get used to it, though with windows apps, y >> wind up programming for a lot more events.
Glad to hear you are making progress just the same.
Golly That's a long time. Fraid I haven't been doing web design since before .html, what did they use before they used HyperText Markup Language on the web?
Sam Alexander wrote:
As for working with VB, it's coming along thus far, but being we have both web apps and windows apps, it's learning both varieties of programming styles. My forte is web, so hopefully I'll pick-up the ASP.Net stuff rather quickly, but the VB portion is taking longer then I hoped to grasp.
Yeah, if you've been doing web design before (html etc), then ASP.Net is a bear to learn and get a good grasp on.. a lot of the style is really similar to windows apps though, once you get used to it, though with windows apps, y wind up programming for a lot more events.
Glad to hear you are making progress just the same.
Re: Re: Learning OOP (VB2005)
By: Tracker1 to Sam Alexander on Tue Jul 31 2007 06:09 pm
Yeah, if you've been doing web design before (html etc), then ASP.Net is bear to learn and get a good grasp on.. a lot of the style is really simi to windows apps though, once you get used to it, though with windows apps wind up programming for a lot more events.
Glad to hear you are making progress just the same.
Golly That's a long time. Fraid I haven't been doing web design since befor .html, what did they use before they used HyperText Markup Language on the web?
Re: Learning OOP (VB2005)
By: Sam Alexander to Trash80 on Tue Jul 31 2007 10:57:00
SharePoint is a booger to learn, but I hear MOSS 2007 and WSS 3.0 is MUCH more functional then SPS 2003 and WSS 2.0, which is what I'm used to working with.
As for working with VB, it's coming along thus far, but being we have bot web apps and windows apps, it's learning both varieties of programming styles. My forte is web, so hopefully I'll pick-up the ASP.Net stuff rather quickly, but the VB portion is taking longer then I hoped to grasp
It'll come together, and it's fun learning something new ..
I'd heard MOSS 2007 (what I'm trialing) is a big improvement over 2003. It i large, complex beast, but from my perspective it will give us a development environment at the same time (our intranet is strictly controlled [read government] and is currently employing state-of-the-art 1994 technology).
Well you're certainly right about learning something new being fun. I'm hopi for more opportunities to develop in C# for this reason.
Yeah, if you've been doing web design before (html etc), then ASP.Net is a >> bear to learn and get a good grasp on.. a lot of the style is really similar >> to windows apps though, once you get used to it, though with windows apps, y >> wind up programming for a lot more events.
Today I finally got the code for one of our larger applications, and it's impressive yet scary. You're right, it's most definitely more similar to application programming then old-school web coding, but having an example like this to learn with should get me movin'.
Sam Alexander wrote:
Yeah, if you've been doing web design before (html etc), then ASP.Net is >> bear to learn and get a good grasp on.. a lot of the style is really simi >> to windows apps though, once you get used to it, though with windows apps >> wind up programming for a lot more events.
Today I finally got the code for one of our larger applications, and it's impressive yet scary. You're right, it's most definitely more similar to application programming then old-school web coding, but having an example like this to learn with should get me movin'.
Yeah, it's actually a really nice way to do web apps, but it helps to have a knowledge of html, and how the web works, so you know when things get weird ASP.Net... a lot of times you'll see quirkiness with CSS because of how browser compatibility is detected, and handled.. ex: w3c validator, you shou put a config for it that sets it to full xml/js capable.. ;) If you test wi it, if you need a file for asp.net 2, let me know... I used to change all gecko browsers to type gecko, but just been lazy in 2.x, since the setup for browsers is way different.
ASP.Net... a lot of times you'll see quirkiness with CSS because of how
browser compatibility is detected, and handled.. ex: w3c validator, you shou >> put a config for it that sets it to full xml/js capable.. ;) If you test wi >> it, if you need a file for asp.net 2, let me know... I used to change all >> gecko browsers to type gecko, but just been lazy in 2.x, since the setup for >> browsers is way different.
I completely agree... This is one advantage I have because I've done web programming for over a decade now, so the HTML portion is totally old-hat for me. I spent more time today working through our massive ASP.NET app plus having the developer who wrote it give me some guidance, and it makes much more sence now.
As for browser compatability, that's an issue for all web-based languages, and unfortunately an issue that won't be fixed anytime soon. I do try to validate all pages with w3c, but luckily for me I mainly write web-based applications for internal corporate folks where I know exactly what'll be
on the desktop.
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