• GENTOO

    From Heebie@VERT/CSTRVLV to Moon Raker on Friday, March 14, 2008 21:19:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Moon Raker to Heebie on Sun Feb 18 2007 09:03:00

    Nice to see somebody talking about Gentoo. I have been running Gentoo almost 3 years now and would not use anything else mow that I am used to it. used to mess with Red Hat. But since I found gentoo I have not used anythin else and have thrown all the Red Hat Cd's in the trash.

    I work with Gentoo, Debian, Red Hat 4, Red Hat 5, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and a couple of minor distros (mainly ones used to create VM appliances) at work all the time. It's always easiest to get things working properly in Debian, but the performance difference on identical hardware is worth the tiny bit more effort of Gentoo when squeezing all the performance you can out of a production cluster.
    Red Hat is just unweildy & nasty.. not to mention icky & clunky.

    --Heebie

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  • From Heebie@VERT/CSTRVLV to Moon Raker on Friday, March 14, 2008 21:26:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Moon Raker to Angus McLeod on Sun Feb 18 2007 09:13:00

    I was told Gentoo was more advanced then any form of Linux is this true It took me awhile to learn. And yes, more then one attempt to install. But after a few times of installing it you get used to it. i learned more from Gentoo then I did Red Hat. Also there isn't anything about Gentoo that isn' covered on the web. They have great Wiki's to help you get started and goo help in IRC. I used to take 2 monitors side by side and just read about how get stuff working better then printing manuals.

    I wish there wasn't "anything about Gentoo that isn't covered on the web" I've found a few things that weren't here & there..and that's a pain! (Although.. certainly not the "fault" of Gentoo.. since it's often individual package documentation.)

    It is an extremely well-documented distro.

    The only "distro" that might teach you more about Linux would probably be LFS. Using Gentoo shows you a lot of the nitty-gritty that makes the system work.. and when you begin to understand that, it makes administration much easier. It also helps you better undderstand the binary distros and how they work.

    The guy that runs the BBS I posted this from (bbs.castrovalva.org) turned me on to Gentooo some time ago. I can't remember how long.

    I built two more Gentoo boxes at work this week, my desktops at home & work are Gentoo, and now nearly half of the *NIX boxen in my data centre are Gentoo.
    I'm certainly a fan. :) I've made some converts from Debian, Red Hat, and uBuntu since I started my job!

    --Heebie

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  • From Angus McLeod@VERT/ANJO to Heebie on Saturday, March 15, 2008 08:36:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Heebie to Moon Raker on Fri Mar 14 2008 21:19:00

    It's always easiest to get things working properly in Debian, but the performance difference on identical hardware is worth the tiny bit more effort of Gentoo when squeezing all the performance you can out of a product cluster.

    Why/how does Gentoo deliver that "tiny bit more" that other distros can't?

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  • From Jame Clay@VERT/ROCASA to Heebie on Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:28:00
    Red Hat is just unweildy & nasty.. not to mention icky & clunky.

    Well said!<g>



    Jame

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  • From Carol Shenkenberger@VERT/SHENKS to Angus McLeod on Sunday, March 16, 2008 09:48:00

    It's always easiest to get things working properly in Debian, but the performance difference on identical hardware is worth the tiny bit more effort of Gentoo when squeezing all the performance you can out of a product cluster.

    Why/how does Gentoo deliver that "tiny bit more" that other distros can't?

    Probably something related to his specific hardware platform. My box for exam ple likes SuSe but wasnt as fast or happy with some of the other ones I've tried. Nothing wrong with those other products, just minor differences in hardware support that made that one run more optimal for me.
    xxcarol


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  • From Carol Shenkenberger@VERT/SHENKS to Jame Clay on Sunday, March 16, 2008 09:49:00

    Red Hat is just unweildy & nasty.. not to mention icky & clunky.

    Well said!<g>

    But it was spiffy in the early days before all the others came out!
    xxcarol

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  • From Ibanez@VERT to Carol Shenkenberger on Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:45:38
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Angus McLeod on Sun Mar 16 2008 09:48 am

    Why/how does Gentoo deliver that "tiny bit more" that other distros can't

    Probably something related to his specific hardware platform. My box for ex ple likes SuSe but wasnt as fast or happy with some of the other ones I've tried. Nothing wrong with those other products, just minor differences in hardware support that made that one run more optimal for me.

    You compile Gentoo packages from source with flags for your specific architecture. Some binary distros set flags pretty far back to support a large array of older archs -- for example, Slackware still compiles for i486 last I checked. Mandrake (now Mandriva I think?) was one of the first distros to break i386 compat and go for i586 and higher.

    Anyway, there's a TON of compiler flags for CPUs. Just about every iteration of Intel and AMD processor has it's own flag.

    Beyond the architecture flags though, Gentoo has flags for packages to compile in/out features as well. If you're building a very special purpose machine,
    you can trim out all the features you'll never use. I don't know that many people go that far. Most compile for their architecture, and then set flags for their favorite desktop environment (if building a desktop distro).



    - Ibanez

    -----
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  • From Angus McLeod@VERT/ANJO to Ibanez on Sunday, March 16, 2008 19:55:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Ibanez to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Mar 16 2008 11:45:00

    Why/how does Gentoo deliver that "tiny bit more" that other distros ca

    Probably something related to his specific hardware platform. My box for ple likes SuSe but wasnt as fast or happy with some of the other ones I'v tried. Nothing wrong with those other products, just minor differences i hardware support that made that one run more optimal for me.

    You compile Gentoo packages from source with flags for your specific architecture. Some binary distros set flags pretty far back to support a lar array of older archs -- for example, Slackware still compiles for i486 last checked.

    It would be foolish to suggest that Gentoo performs better because the packages are compiled for the platform. I can assure you, Slackware comes with a compiler too.

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  • From Jame Clay@VERT/ROCASA to Carol Shenkenberger on Sunday, March 16, 2008 20:54:00

    Red Hat is just unweildy & nasty.. not to mention icky & clunky.

    Well said!<g>

    But it was spiffy in the early days before all the others came out!

    Even then, I liked Slackware better... Think I still have the CD set for Slackware v3.4 around here,
    somewhere...<g>



    Jame

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  • From Ibanez@VERT to Angus McLeod on Monday, March 17, 2008 20:48:18
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Ibanez on Sun Mar 16 2008 07:55 pm

    You compile Gentoo packages from source with flags for your specific architecture. Some binary distros set flags pretty far back to support a array of older archs -- for example, Slackware still compiles for i486 la checked.

    It would be foolish to suggest that Gentoo performs better because the packages are compiled for the platform. I can assure you, Slackware comes with a compiler too.

    If I pulled my Gentoo drive from my Core2 Quad based system and you even tried to run it on a Pentium 4, it would not work. I've set the flag to -march flag to exactly my CPU.

    Packages compiled with -march=athlon will most likely fail to run on a K6 cpu. I can dig out of the Gentoo docs where it states this if you wish.

    And you'd have to recompile the ENTIRE slackware distro to get the same effect. You're entire Gentoo system is compiled from those flags.



    - Ibanez

    -----
    Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name.
    Thy programs run, thy syscalls done,
    In kernel as it is in user!



    ---
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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Ibanez on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 01:46:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Ibanez to Angus McLeod on Mon Mar 17 2008 08:48 pm

    And you'd have to recompile the ENTIRE slackware distro to get the same effect. You're entire Gentoo system is compiled from those flags.

    Hum... wouldn't you need to recompile the ENTIRE Gentoo distro to get the same effect?

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  • From Angus McLeod@VERT/ANJO to Ibanez on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 09:46:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Ibanez to Angus McLeod on Mon Mar 17 2008 20:48:00

    It would be foolish to suggest that Gentoo performs better because the packages are compiled for the platform. I can assure you, Slackware come with a compiler too.

    If I pulled my Gentoo drive from my Core2 Quad based system and you even tri to run it on a Pentium 4, it would not work.

    I hope I nevert have a system which, should the MB die, won;t boot up on
    any other configuration.

    And you'd have to recompile the ENTIRE slackware distro to get the same effe You're entire Gentoo system is compiled from those flags.

    So what would be wrong with that? If it becomes necessary to compile the entire distro, then you compile the entire distro. Slackware comes with
    that option. While the entire distro can be installed from pre-built binaries, but each and every component is also provided in source form,
    with a 'SlackBuild' script to compile them. Set your options as needed
    and compile away!

    Except, only those parts of the distro that you were using need to be compiled. Or more correctly, only those parts from which you need extreme efficiency. No need to compile the browser, for instance, if you are satisfied with the browser's performance.

    And in the mean time, you can bring up a new Slackware box in what?
    Twenty minutes?

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  • From Angus McLeod@VERT/ANJO to Deuce on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 09:47:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Deuce to Ibanez on Tue Mar 18 2008 01:46:00

    And you'd have to recompile the ENTIRE slackware distro to get the same effect. You're entire Gentoo system is compiled from those flags.

    Hum... wouldn't you need to recompile the ENTIRE Gentoo distro to get the sa effect?

    You can't even *install* Gentoo WITHOUT recompiling the entire distro,
    whether you need that effect system-wide (or at all) or not!

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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Angus McLeod on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 16:36:03
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Deuce on Tue Mar 18 2008 09:47 am

    Hum... wouldn't you need to recompile the ENTIRE Gentoo distro to get
    the sa effect?

    You can't even *install* Gentoo WITHOUT recompiling the entire distro, whether you need that effect system-wide (or at all) or not!

    I'm pretty sure you can... I seem to recally doing just that.

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  • From Ibanez@VERT to Deuce on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 18:36:20
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Deuce to Ibanez on Tue Mar 18 2008 01:46 am

    Re: GENTOO
    By: Ibanez to Angus McLeod on Mon Mar 17 2008 08:48 pm

    And you'd have to recompile the ENTIRE slackware distro to get the same effect. You're entire Gentoo system is compiled from those flags.

    Hum... wouldn't you need to recompile the ENTIRE Gentoo distro to get the sa effect?

    You do. The base install initially comes from a minimally compiled-for-you bootstrap, but as you update through portage you are replacing that with compiled code tailored to your system.

    When you do a stage3 install, basic stuff like bash, binutils, etc (i.e. minimal environment) is provided to chroot into, and you build your kernel and get it ready to boot from. Once I have that bootable, minimal system + compile tools, I do everything from source. You can use some binary packages these days from reference releases to get a system up and running faster. I prefer to just start from source (only because it's a quad core with oodles of RAM. I'd probably go the quick route on a P3 or early Athlon system due to impatience).



    - Ibanez

    -----
    Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name.
    Thy programs run, thy syscalls done,
    In kernel as it is in user!



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  • From Ibanez@VERT to Angus McLeod on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 18:48:51
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Ibanez on Tue Mar 18 2008 09:46 am

    If I pulled my Gentoo drive from my Core2 Quad based system and you even to run it on a Pentium 4, it would not work.

    I hope I nevert have a system which, should the MB die, won;t boot up on any other configuration.

    If your still using the same or newer proc you should be OK... saying that you have the proper drivers for the drive controllers on your new MB compile in (or modules + init ramdisk). If I read the docs correctly, you should be able to get a system compiled specifically for a Pentium 3 to boot on a Pentium 4, but a Pentium 2 will definitely not boot that kernel. etc...

    And you'd have to recompile the ENTIRE slackware distro to get the same e You're entire Gentoo system is compiled from those flags.

    So what would be wrong with that? If it becomes necessary to compile the entire distro, then you compile the entire distro. Slackware comes with that option. While the entire distro can be installed from pre-built binaries, but each and every component is also provided in source form, with a 'SlackBuild' script to compile them. Set your options as needed
    and compile away!

    You could, but you'd still not have Portage (which is in and of itself a reason to run Gentoo IMHO). Slapt-get is OK, but it doesn't compile for you and handle automation of compile flags does it?

    And in the mean time, you can bring up a new Slackware box in what?
    Twenty minutes?

    If you use the Gentoo binary snapshot, you can bring a whole system up pretty quickly as well, and just let the system get replaced with compiled code through updates. I did this on an older system to save time. But when runinning it on a Core 2 Quad w/ 4GB of RAM, why not start off from scratch? If you blink while compiling the kernel you'll miss the whole thing :) (I run makeopts=-j8)



    - Ibanez

    -----
    Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name.
    Thy programs run, thy syscalls done,
    In kernel as it is in user!



    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From Ibanez@VERT to Deuce on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 18:50:14
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Deuce to Angus McLeod on Tue Mar 18 2008 04:36 pm

    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Deuce on Tue Mar 18 2008 09:47 am

    Hum... wouldn't you need to recompile the ENTIRE Gentoo distro to get the sa effect?

    You can't even *install* Gentoo WITHOUT recompiling the entire distro, whether you need that effect system-wide (or at all) or not!

    Yes, the do a reference release twice a year. You can do those from binary packages to get started, and let the system replace itself through compiled updates later.



    - Ibanez

    -----
    Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name.
    Thy programs run, thy syscalls done,
    In kernel as it is in user!




    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From Angus McLeod@VERT/ANJO to Deuce on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 23:08:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Deuce to Angus McLeod on Tue Mar 18 2008 16:36:00

    You can't even *install* Gentoo WITHOUT recompiling the entire distro, whether you need that effect system-wide (or at all) or not!

    I'm pretty sure you can... I seem to recally doing just that.

    But gentoo is the compiled-for-platform distro. If you do the binary
    install, the much-vaunted 2% performance improvement disappears, doesn't
    it?

    http://www.funroll-loops.info/

    If you really want to build Linux from scratch, then use Linux From Scratch!

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  • From Ibanez@VERT to Angus McLeod on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 20:15:08
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Deuce on Tue Mar 18 2008 11:08 pm

    But gentoo is the compiled-for-platform distro. If you do the binary install, the much-vaunted 2% performance improvement disappears, doesn't it?

    No Portage, no deal! ;)

    More seriously, it just seems that unless you give it a try you'll never see the appeal. Some people like it, some people don't. I like Gentoo, so I use it.

    That's pretty much it. There's a ton of distros out there because there are lots of people with different preferences.

    Choose what's best for you. :)



    - Ibanez

    -----
    Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name.
    Thy programs run, thy syscalls done,
    In kernel as it is in user!



    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Ibanez on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 22:47:40
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Ibanez to Deuce on Tue Mar 18 2008 06:36 pm

    And you'd have to recompile the ENTIRE slackware distro to get the same effect. You're entire Gentoo system is compiled from those
    flags.

    Hum... wouldn't you need to recompile the ENTIRE Gentoo distro to get
    the sa effect?

    You do. The base install initially comes from a minimally compiled-for-you bootstrap, but as you update through portage you are replacing that with compiled code tailored to your system.

    Erm... so then your point is pretty much moot then. You need a newer and better point!

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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Angus McLeod on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 22:56:09
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Deuce on Tue Mar 18 2008 11:08 pm

    I'm pretty sure you can... I seem to recally doing just that.

    But gentoo is the compiled-for-platform distro. If you do the binary install, the much-vaunted 2% performance improvement disappears, doesn't
    it?

    Gentoo is also the only Linux distro that didn't piss me off completely.
    Every other distro I've installed had some mindblowingly stupid bit about it that drove me around the bend.

    My only complaint about Gentoo is the abitrary "experimental" vs "stable" differences in the portage tree. The ports are pretty chaotic when it comes to that.

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  • From Angus McLeod@VERT/ANJO to Deuce on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 09:34:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Deuce to Angus McLeod on Tue Mar 18 2008 22:56:00

    Gentoo is also the only Linux distro that didn't piss me off completely. Every other distro I've installed had some mindblowingly stupid bit about it that drove me around the bend.

    I'm not entirely sure I follow. Something about the distro always pisses
    you off? Or something about the process of *installation* pisses you off?

    If you can muster the thoughts, I'd be glad to hear a couple examples of various distros and what you didn't like about them.

    My only complaint about Gentoo is the abitrary "experimental" vs
    "stable" differences in the portage tree. The ports are pretty chaotic when it comes to that.

    Sounds like Gentoo DID have something that pissed you off. (Although I'll concede that perhaps it didn't COMPLETELY piss you off...)

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  • From Ibanez@VERT to Deuce on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 07:57:48
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Deuce to Angus McLeod on Tue Mar 18 2008 10:56 pm

    My only complaint about Gentoo is the abitrary "experimental" vs "stable" differences in the portage tree. The ports are pretty chaotic when it comes that.

    I will agree with you on that sentiment.



    - Ibanez

    -----
    Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name.
    Thy programs run, thy syscalls done,
    In kernel as it is in user!



    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Angus McLeod on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:05:13
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Deuce on Wed Mar 19 2008 09:34 am

    Gentoo is also the only Linux distro that didn't piss me off completely. Every other distro I've installed had some mindblowingly stupid bit
    about it that drove me around the bend.

    I'm not entirely sure I follow. Something about the distro always pisses you off? Or something about the process of *installation* pisses you off?

    I'm generally fine with anything the installation does... as long as it's documented (which they generally are). It's always something about the distro itself or configuration thereof.

    If you can muster the thoughts, I'd be glad to hear a couple examples of various distros and what you didn't like about them.

    As for specific details, I can't remember them anymore. However, I can give an outline of how I set up my Linux boxes so you could perhaps figure out which bit would be painfull under your distro of choice...

    1) Enable rlogin.
    2) Create an "admin" account with UID 1000 capable of becoming root.
    3) Enable ntp broadcast time synchronization.
    4) If the box is sufficiently powered, enable SSH logins.
    5) NFS mount /home, /synchronet, and /bbsdev.
    6) Enable remote X11 servers.
    7) Set up a serial console.
    8) Install Synchronet/SyncTERM support libraries (SDL, nspr4, Cryptlib, etc).

    My only complaint about Gentoo is the abitrary "experimental" vs
    "stable" differences in the portage tree. The ports are pretty chaotic when it comes to that.

    Sounds like Gentoo DID have something that pissed you off. (Although I'll concede that perhaps it didn't COMPLETELY piss you off...)

    Right... it was merely irritating. Every pacakge you use, you need to examine just how the "stable" version was chosen. In other words, you need to pay WAY too much attention to how the packager selected the version numbers. At the end of it all, the initiall install is only very slightly better than downloading the tarballs by hand... upgrades though a a lot easier.

    In general, things that completely piss me off are things that restrict root (ie: Requiring a "sufficiently" complex password for root) all-inclusive default settings (including aalib with SDL) braindead dependencies (Sun's Java DEMOS being *REQUIRED* by the JDK) packaging systems which MUST download metadata about EVERY package in order to be able to install ONE. Crazy configuration (having to edit /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 to change the default router) phantom device nodes (every MAC address the system has ever seen gets its own /dev/ethX node so when you add a new permanent card, it ends up being eth9), not installing libX.so symlinks so that programs using dlsym(3) need to flail about looking for a library (or install the -dev pacakge) and, best of all, NONE of this shit being documented anywhere except in Google Groups so you need a DIFFERENT machine in order to figure it out since you can't access the internet until you figure out where to set the default router.

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  • From Trash80@VERT/THEVILLE to Angus McLeod on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 16:38:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Ibanez on Tue Mar 18 2008 09:46:00

    So what would be wrong with that? If it becomes necessary to compile the entire distro, then you compile the entire distro. Slackware comes with that option. While the entire distro can be installed from pre-built binaries, but each and every component is also provided in source form,
    with a 'SlackBuild' script to compile them. Set your options as needed
    and compile away!

    Except, only those parts of the distro that you were using need to be compiled. Or more correctly, only those parts from which you need extreme efficiency. No need to compile the browser, for instance, if you are satisfied with the browser's performance.

    And in the mean time, you can bring up a new Slackware box in what?
    Twenty minutes?

    Gentoo nay sayers have either never used it, or used it on a generic P4. I will concede that an a generic P4 you are not going to see much improvement if any than most binary distributions. However, on non-generic systems compiling from source with optimizations with any distro will give you an improvement in performance. Gentoo makes that easy to do (for the experienced Linux user) as well as easy to update.

    I think if you like Debian (more specifically it's apt-get) but like the idea of a tuned OS/apps compiled from source then Gentoo is the way to got. And if you are running PowerPC, Alpha, Sparc or other non-intel architecture then Gentoo will not only give you a performance boost, but is quite possible the only choice for an up-to-date distro.

    You can install software from packages in Gentoo too if you want to get up and running quickly. I'd shy away from Gentoo though if you're not looking for bleedng edge and want a stable server. Not that Gentoo is unstable, but it can be if you don't pay attention to how you conduct system updates.

    Regards,
    Doug
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  • From Trash80@VERT/THEVILLE to Angus McLeod on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 16:42:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Angus McLeod to Deuce on Tue Mar 18 2008 09:47:00

    You can't even *install* Gentoo WITHOUT recompiling the entire distro, whether you need that effect system-wide (or at all) or not!

    Simply not true. You can install from packages. In fact, they've moved away from bootstrapping the base system and then re-compiling from source about 2 years ago.

    Regards,
    Doug
    --
    The Ville - Where 8-bits meet 32. Data: (902)442-2725 8N1 V.34
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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Trash80 on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 18:32:09
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Trash80 to Angus McLeod on Wed Mar 19 2008 04:38 pm

    Gentoo nay sayers have either never used it, or used it on a generic P4. I will concede that an a generic P4 you are not going to see much improvement if any than most binary distributions. However, on non-generic systems compiling from source with optimizations with any distro will give you an improvement in performance. Gentoo makes that easy to do (for the experienced Linux user) as well as easy to update.

    How does one tell if he has a generic P4 or not?

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  • From Ibanez@VERT to Deuce on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 20:55:12
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Deuce to Angus McLeod on Wed Mar 19 2008 12:05 pm

    In general, things that completely piss me off are things that restrict root (ie: Requiring a "sufficiently" complex password for root) all-inclusive default settings (including aalib with SDL) braindead dependencies (Sun's Ja DEMOS being *REQUIRED* by the JDK) packaging systems which MUST download metadata about EVERY package in order to be able to install ONE. Crazy configuration (having to edit /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 to change the default router) phantom device nodes (every MAC address the syste has ever seen gets its own /dev/ethX node so when you add a new permanent ca it ends up being eth9), not installing libX.so symlinks so that programs usi dlsym(3) need to flail about looking for a library (or install the -dev pacakge) and, best of all, NONE of this shit being documented anywhere excep in Google Groups so you need a DIFFERENT machine in order to figure it out since you can't access the internet until you figure out where to set the default router.

    I think that clears things up a bit. Nice rant. ;)



    - Ibanez

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  • From Angus McLeod@VERT/ANJO to Trash80 on Thursday, March 20, 2008 00:17:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Trash80 to Angus McLeod on Wed Mar 19 2008 16:42:00

    You can't even *install* Gentoo WITHOUT recompiling the entire distro, whether you need that effect system-wide (or at all) or not!

    Simply not true. You can install from packages.

    Yes, but if you do that, it isn't *really* Genteww, is it?

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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Ibanez on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 23:52:26
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Ibanez to Deuce on Wed Mar 19 2008 08:55 pm

    I think that clears things up a bit. Nice rant. ;)

    Actually, none of the things that REALLY pissed me off are on that list. I just plain can't remember what those things were anymore.

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  • From The Immortal@VERT/KSQUARE to Ibanez on Thursday, March 20, 2008 18:49:24
    Re: GENTOO
    By: Ibanez to Deuce on Wed Mar 19 2008 08:55 pm

    *BSD for the win.

    Like I'ma let an OS sit and bootstrap and compile for itself on a 2 or
    3ghz PC for days before I can get on it in any entertaining or gratifying fashion.

    :( Wait bsd does that too basically

    no apt-get or slapt-get or trusted precompiled binaries, but it's rare I
    have to chase down any dependencies by hand. It's usually some
    ungoogle'able lib module.so or Door library if there's an inconvenience.

    The entire current populace of unix users do not seem to know of, or
    recall what a "BBS" or "door games" are. Upsetting in the pants.

    But hey, at least it played Quake 3 in perfect OpenGL.
    Online without a key heh. Too bad that's still 10 years behind the times.

    =\= The Immortal =/=





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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to The Immortal on Thursday, March 20, 2008 21:36:54
    Re: GENTOO
    By: The Immortal to Ibanez on Thu Mar 20 2008 06:49 pm

    *BSD for the win.

    That's 'teh win'

    Like I'ma let an OS sit and bootstrap and compile for itself on a 2 or
    3ghz PC for days before I can get on it in any entertaining or gratifying fashion.

    Good call.

    :( Wait bsd does that too basically

    Huh wha? I'm not aware of any BSD which does that.

    no apt-get or slapt-get or trusted precompiled binaries, but it's rare I have to chase down any dependencies by hand. It's usually some
    ungoogle'able lib module.so or Door library if there's an inconvenience.

    ``pkg_add -r'' is what you're looking for apparently.

    And trusted by whom eh? To me a trusted binary is one that I've looked at the code to and have convinced myself it's solid. Which is to say, none of the ones on my system.

    The entire current populace of unix users do not seem to know of, or
    recall what a "BBS" or "door games" are. Upsetting in the pants.

    FreeBSD comes with a SyncTERM package. Besides, UNIX users always knew that BBSs were just wannabe UNIX systems.

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  • From Trash80@VERT/THEVILLE to The Immortal on Friday, March 21, 2008 09:07:00
    Re: GENTOO
    By: The Immortal to Ibanez on Thu Mar 20 2008 18:49:00

    *BSD for the win.

    Like I'ma let an OS sit and bootstrap and compile for itself on a 2 or
    3ghz PC for days before I can get on it in any entertaining or gratifying fashion.

    :( Wait bsd does that too basically

    FreeBSD is great. It's ports system was part of what Gentoo is based in its philosphy.

    Not that even die-hard Gentoo users bootstrap anymore, but a 2 or 3ghz PC can be bootstrapped in only a couple of hours. :)

    Regards,
    Doug
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  • From Ibanez@VERT to The Immortal on Saturday, March 22, 2008 16:37:25
    Re: GENTOO
    By: The Immortal to Ibanez on Thu Mar 20 2008 06:49 pm

    Like I'ma let an OS sit and bootstrap and compile for itself on a 2 or
    3ghz PC for days before I can get on it in any entertaining or gratifying fashion.

    Any Core2-based system should be able to get a working Gentoo setup compiled in a single day. Once it's all setup, just compiling updates as they come along doesn't take long at all.

    I like to think of the initial compile as a nice stress test for new hardware. If it survives the Gentoo install, you're golden. :)



    - Ibanez

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