The last post was an accident.

If the web was w3 standards based, IE would be history. Web designers need to adhere to these standards. In a previous job, I was responsible for insuring my bosses pages looked good on Netscape, Opera and other browsers.



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Re: Sorry
By: Jazzy_J to All on Thu Jan 03 2008 09:49 pm

If the web was w3 standards based, IE would be history. Web designers need to adhere to these standards. In a previous job, I was responsible for insuring my bosses pages looked good on Netscape, Opera and other browsers.

IE has the majority of the browser market. If you adhere to all the standards without doing any IE-specific things, your website doesn't work properly or look right on the majority of users' computers. While that may be fine for a personal site, it's unacceptable for a business site.

The best thing to do is to essentially create two versions of your site, or one version with lots of tweaks, to support IE and then all the other browsers. I normally work to ensure Firefox/Opera/Safari compatibility first, and then add the IE-specific stuff later.

That's likely not going to ever change until Microsoft is knocked out of the majority position for web browsers.

-- MysticOne

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To: Jazzy_J
> adhere to these standards. In a previous job, I was responsible for insuring

my bosses pages looked good on Netscape, Opera and other browsers.

must have been hell!

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On 1/3/2008 8:49 PM, Jazzy_J wrote:

The last post was an accident.

If the web was w3 standards based, IE would be history. Web designers need to
adhere to these standards. In a previous job, I was responsible for insuring my bosses pages looked good on Netscape, Opera and other browsers.

Go back to 1999, and say that... Netscape at the time wasn't any more standards compliant than IE5 was... even less so. Good alternatives really weren't an option until 2004.

Also, if you actually specify a doctype, then IE6 doesn't do *THAT* bad at rendering, considering how old it is/was.... I think a lot more of the blame goes to the web designers and the wysiwyg editors of the day.

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On 1/4/2008 12:41 AM, MysticOne wrote:

The best thing to do is to essentially create two versions of your site, or one
version with lots of tweaks, to support IE and then all the other browsers. I
normally work to ensure Firefox/Opera/Safari compatibility first, and then add
the IE-specific stuff later.

That's likely not going to ever change until Microsoft is knocked out of the majority position for web browsers.

I honestly am not quite so skeptical.. I usually start with a pretty standards based mockup... I will create a template structure that will inject browser specific css links.. usually one for all but IE6, and one specifically for IE6... I will often have to use a little JS, or use the css expression for IE, to work around a few quirks.. outside of static positioning, or bottom positioning, most xhtml + css works okay out of the box for ie6.

See: http://www.azclea.org/ .. the script and extra css are ie6 only.. I didn't go so far as to use the typical methods for including extras that I do, because it's a relatively simple site.. but it's using the same for ie7 as for everything else, and it works... ie6 is the edge case... I believe that within 2 years IE6 will be at <5% share, and can be ignored at that point.

It took longer than that to get out of the v2-3 browsers into the v4 browsers.. it's taken about 3 years to get to a strong showing of more compliant browsers, and probably another 2 for the old ones to trickle off.

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Re: Re: Sorry
By: Tracker1 to MysticOne on Sun Jan 06 2008 10:42 pm

I honestly am not quite so skeptical.. I usually start with a pretty standards based mockup... I will create a template structure that will inject browser specific css links.. usually one for all but IE6, and one specifically for IE6... I will often have to use a little JS, or use the
css expression for IE, to work around a few quirks.. outside of static positioning, or bottom positioning, most xhtml + css works okay out of the box for ie6.

There are conditional things you can do in CSS (exploiting a bit of a hack) to make styles apply to IE, but not other browsers. That will work sometimes.
The other solution, like you've said, is to use JavaScript to do it. But, there are also problems with how IE handles JavaScript and everyone else does. There's all sorts of little quirks and differences that make you have to put a lot of conditional elements in your code.

-- MysticOne

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On 1/7/2008 6:14 PM, MysticOne wrote:

There are conditional things you can do in CSS (exploiting a bit of a hack) to
make styles apply to IE, but not other browsers. That will work sometimes. The other solution, like you've said, is to use JavaScript to do it. But, there are also problems with how IE handles JavaScript and everyone else does.
There's all sorts of little quirks and differences that make you have to put a
lot of conditional elements in your code.

bullshit... see: http://www.azclea.org/ hell even theroughnecks.net is pretty much the same for IE and others... azclea is a more advanced site, and the IE6 (not 7) hacks are minimal.

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Re: Re: Sorry
By: Tracker1 to MysticOne on Tue Jan 08 2008 04:28 am

bullshit... see: http://www.azclea.org/ hell even theroughnecks.net is pretty much the same for IE and others... azclea is a more advanced site, and the IE6 (not 7) hacks are minimal.

It depends on what you're trying to do. I'm not saying you can't make a nice website that works properly in both, or that it's always a lot of work. But, depending on your layout and what you want to do, it's entirely possible that you have to work around IE's crap.

-- MysticOne

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