• This strange world

    From Craig Molus@VERT/AMSTRAD to All on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 01:38:17
    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like these BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so fascinating. What have I been missing out on all my life? Anyway, I am typing on an '84 Macintosh so as to achieve a somewhat authentic experience. I'll be lurking around here for the forseeable so I'll hopefully see you folk around!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to Craig Molus on Tuesday, July 07, 2020 23:29:00
    Hello Craig!

    ** On Tuesday 07.07.20 - 20:38, craig.molus wrote to All:

    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like these
    BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so fascinating. What have I
    been missing out on all my life? Anyway, I am typing on an '84 Macintosh
    so as to achieve a somewhat authentic experience. I'll be lurking around
    here for the forseeable so I'll hopefully see you folk around!


    Nothing wrong with using modern pcs for this. Using the fine OpenXP here (for Win or Linux) on a basic XP laptop.

    Using a newer pc might even make the typing/reading experience more
    enjoyable since http:// links can be launched with an accompanyting
    browser on the same pc.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Craig Molus on Tuesday, July 07, 2020 21:24:00
    Craig Molus wrote to All <=-

    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like
    these BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so
    fascinating. What have I been missing out on all my life? Anyway,
    I am typing on an '84 Macintosh so as to achieve a somewhat
    authentic experience. I'll be lurking around here for the
    forseeable so I'll hopefully see you folk around!

    Cool, welcome aboard!



    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Craig Molus on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 09:58:00
    Craig Molus wrote to All <=-

    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like these
    BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so fascinating. What have
    I been missing out on all my life? Anyway, I am typing on an '84
    Macintosh so as to achieve a somewhat authentic experience. I'll be lurking around here for the forseeable so I'll hopefully see you folk around!

    Welcome to the world of bbs'ing. I went to a birthday party last weekend where half the guests were sysops or users I've known since the mid-90s.

    My first foray into BBS'ing was at my school mate's house because their 8088 had
    a modem. There was a local free computer newspaper that listed BBS's in our local area. We'd dial in and play games download girlie pics. Ahh, the days.

    Anyway, enjoy.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mortifis@VERT/EPHRAM to Craig Molus on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 08:01:26
    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like these BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so fascinating. What have I been missing out on all my life? Anyway, I am typing on an '84 Macintosh so as to achieve a somewhat authentic experience. I'll be lurking around here for the forseeable so I'll hopefully see you folk around!

    welcome to the world of bbs'n

    ~Mortifis

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Realm of Dispair BBS - http://ephram.synchro.net:82
  • From Dennisk@VERT/MINDSEYE to Craig Molus on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 21:48:00
    Craig Molus wrote to All <=-

    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like these
    BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so fascinating. What have
    I been missing out on all my life? Anyway, I am typing on an '84
    Macintosh so as to achieve a somewhat authentic experience. I'll be lurking around here for the forseeable so I'll hopefully see you folk around!

    Welcome! Interesting to have someone who didn't use BBS's in the past. I used them for a few years in the mid 90s after getting my first modem and before everyone found the Internet.

    For me, the "authentic" experience is using DOS, over a slow connection, but I almost always log on using Syncterm running under Linux. Being on BBS's with a single tasking OS always sucked, especially when you had a long download.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Mind's Eye - mindseye.ddns.net - Melbourne Australia
  • From Zip@VERT/SCBBS to Craig Molus on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 18:19:00
    Hello Craig!

    On 08 Jul 2020, Craig Molus said the following...
    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like these BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so fascinating. What have I been

    I'm an almost-80s-kid and spent a lot of time on boards (and echomail
    networks) in the 90s. Glad to be back, and nice to have you here! =)

    Best regards
    Zip

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Star Collision BBS, Uppsala, Sweden
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Craig Molus on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 11:02:00
    Re: This strange world
    By: Craig Molus to All on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:38 am

    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like these BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so fascinating. What have I been missing out on all my life? Anyway, I am typing on an '84 Macintosh so as to achieve a somewhat authentic experience. I'll be lurking around here for the forseeable so I'll hopefully see you folk around!


    Welcome! I was a teenager in the 1980's, but it wasn't until 1990 before I
    had a computer connected to a modem. The local mall had a Electronics
    Boutique (later became part of EB Games) and I bought an internal 2400 baud modem for 486/33 for $70.

    One of the reasons why I didn't attempt getting a modem earlier partially was because I was not keen on mail order, plus any local computer shops were business solution places with overpriced hardware. Also, most of what i was aware of was outside my local calling rates. I bought my modem when I
    learned of a friend who found a local BBS, and through that BBS I found
    several others within the local call prefix area. I eventually moved up to a 14.4k modem a firend sold me for a discount (his BBS' modem died, so he
    bought another modem while RMA'ing the other one.) By then, it was 1995-96, and the guys with BBS' were shutting them down and moving on to making their own websites.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Craig Molus on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 11:13:39
    Re: This strange world
    By: Craig Molus to All on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:38 am

    I am an 80's kid however I have never come across anything like these BBS boards. They're so alien to me, and also so fascinating. What have I been missing out on all my life? Anyway, I am typing on an '84 Macintosh so as to achieve a somewhat authentic experience. I'll be lurking around here for the forseeable so I'll hopefully see you folk around!

    I never used Macs much, but I imagine there was plenty of Mac software for calling BBSes. By the time I started using BBSes (in 1992), it seemed much of the BBS world was geared to support IBM-compatible graphics with the ASCII character set and ANSI color codes..

    These days I've been using a modern computer to connect to BBSes, but for a more old-school feel, lately I've been sometimes using DOSBox and a copy of Telemate or Telix (a couple of my old favorite DOS communication programs) to call BBSes (and DOSBox will emulate a modem so you can telnet to BBSes).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 11:15:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Craig Molus on Wed Jul 08 2020 09:48 pm

    Welcome! Interesting to have someone who didn't use BBS's in the past. I used them for a few years in the mid 90s after getting my first modem and before everyone found the Internet.

    I was about to say I was surprised to hear someone didn't use BBSes back then, though after thinking about it, it might not be too surprising. I don't think very many people had a computer back then, so there probably were a lot of people who never used a BBS.

    Also, soon after I started my BBS in 1994, I was talking to a friend in high school (who I knew used computers) and mentioned my BBS, and he said "What's a BBS?"..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/DOOBBS to Zip on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 13:15:35
    Well, when I say 80's, I mean I was born in '85. I guess that makes me a 90's kid! I just, for some reason, had a sudden desire to purchase an old Macintosh with the intention of getting it online. I had never heard of BBS's prior to a couple of months ago. It's an absolutely fascinating world though, a bygone era forgotten about by much of the population. There's something so satisfying about typing into an old clicky keyboard that I cannot put into words, haha.

    Best regards,

    Craig.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Days of Old BBS Telnet/SSH(2222)/Web daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/DOOBBS to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 13:26:14
    I am using a Wifi 232 modem to connect to the internet also rather than a dial-up also so I guess it's not totally authentic. I quite like carrying out single tasks on this machine, it makes a change to what I am used to on my phone/laptop or iPad. The change of pace is very welcome. I initally set my modem to a rate of 300 baud just to test the connection, which was what I was using when I wrote my initial message last night. Today I had discovered the limit of my Mac is 1200 baud. It's a good bit faster and a much more enjoyable experience. I have tried to connect to BBS's over on my iPad, everything is so quick - the text appears in an instant! This is a lot of fun though typing away on the original short/clunky '84 keyboard.

    All the best Dennisk

    Craig

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Days of Old BBS Telnet/SSH(2222)/Web daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/DOOBBS to calcmandan on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 13:38:49
    That's a great story Daniel. I wish I had been around back during the glory days. My first foray onto the internet was back in 1995 when, as a pair of 10 year olds, my friend fired on Duke Nukem 3D, dialed onto a server using his 28.8k modem and began a death match against 3 random players. I was absolutely blown away... both figuratively and literally (in the game!). Going back in time and seeing all this is a real privilage for someone like me.

    All the best Daniel.

    Craig.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Days of Old BBS Telnet/SSH(2222)/Web daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/DOOBBS to Ogg on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 13:46:05
    No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with accessing BBS's with modern PC's. I have also logged into my iPad simultaneously just to learn the layout and commands as everything can be achieved much more quickly and efficiently on a modern connection. I am running at 1200 baud on my old Mac which means that pages take a little while to refresh. I'd love to pick up an old Amiga or something classic that can support a higher transfer rate.

    Kind regards,

    Craig

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Days of Old BBS Telnet/SSH(2222)/Web daysofoldbbs.wilhartsolutions.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Mortifis on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 20:34:27
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Mortifis to Craig Molus on Wed Jul 08 2020 08:01 am

    Thanks. I am just trying to get to grips with replying to folk and searching for messages, etc. It can be quite a confusing labyrinth to navigate!

    Craig

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 13:16:52
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to calcmandan on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:38 pm

    That's a great story Daniel. I wish I had been around back during the glory days. My first foray onto the internet was back in 1995 when, as a pair of 10 year olds, my friend fired on Duke Nukem 3D, dialed onto a server using his 28.8k modem and began a death match against 3 random players. I was absolutely blown away... both figuratively and literally (in the game!). Going back in time and seeing all this is a real privilage for someone like me.

    I remember many DOS games back then supported 1-on-1 matches over the modem, but I hadn't heard of being able to dial into a server with multiple other players.. Except perhaps with Kali emulating an IPX/SPX network to allow multiplayer DOS games over the internet.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 13:19:29
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:46 pm

    No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with accessing BBS's with modern PC's. I have also logged into my iPad simultaneously just to learn the

    One thing to keep in mind is when replying to messages, it's good to quote the message you're replying to, or at least the part you're replying to, so that people can follow the conversation more easily. Sometimes it can be hard to know what you're referring to without any context.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mortifis@VERT/EPHRAM to Nightfox on Thursday, July 09, 2020 00:55:07
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:46 pm

    No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with accessing BBS's with modern PC's. I have also logged into my iPad simultaneously just to learn the

    One thing to keep in mind is when replying to messages, it's good to quote the message you're replying to, or at least the part you're replying to, so that people can follow the conversation more easily. Sometimes it can be hard to know what you're referring to without any context.

    Nightfox

    ... it's a strange world indeed :-P re: subject

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Realm of Dispair BBS - http://ephram.synchro.net:82
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Mortifis on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 23:32:36
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Mortifis to Nightfox on Thu Jul 09 2020 12:55 am

    ... it's a strange world indeed :-P re: subject


    it's a dovenet tradition to totally ignore and never change a subject line
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Friday, July 10, 2020 07:05:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: calcmandan to Andeddu on Fri Jul 10 2020 07:05 am

    Thanks yeah. Honestly, I'm most comfortable on the command line because my formative years was working on dos systems.

    Right now, my main computer is a linux system and 95% of what I do is on the command line. I only launch xwindows if I need to sync my system with nextcloud or in need of a javascript enabled browser.

    BBS'ing is natural to me.

    I also grew up using DOS, so I am comfortable with a command line. I mainly use a GUI these days, but I open up a command prompt sometimes because I think there are some tasks that I think are just easier with a command line.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Friday, July 10, 2020 17:55:00
    Nightfox wrote to calcmandan <=-

    BBS'ing is natural to me.

    I also grew up using DOS, so I am comfortable with a command line. I mainly use a GUI these days, but I open up a command prompt sometimes because I think there are some tasks that I think are just easier with
    a command line.

    Mhm yeah. I spent a number of years running kde and yakuake for terminal
    set set to fullscreen. So when I launchx yakuake automatically launches. Then the hdd was placed in a swapper in my 5.25in tray and had a drive for windows when I used to game.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/MINDSEYE to Andeddu on Thursday, July 09, 2020 18:42:07
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:46 pm

    No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with accessing BBS's with modern PC's. I have also logged into my iPad simultaneously just to learn the layout and commands as everything can be achieved much more quickly and efficiently on a modern connection. I am running at 1200 baud on my old Mac which means that pages take a little while to refresh. I'd love to pick up an old Amiga or something classic that can support a higher transfer rate.

    Kind regards,

    Craig

    I'm typing this now on a CRT, connected to a 486 DX/33, logged in via mTelnet. The file downloading features don't work well, but this is pretty much what it was like for me in the 90s, except with much, much faster transfer speeds.

    I don't mind using new computers, but it is the glow of the CRT which hooks me in. Now I just have to get that CGA monochrome green phosphorescent screen working on a BBS.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Mind's Eye - mindseye.ddns.net - Melbourne Australia
  • From Mortifis@VERT/EPHRAM to Dennisk on Friday, July 10, 2020 20:19:40
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:46 pm

    No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with accessing BBS's with modern PC's. I have also logged into my iPad simultaneously just to learn the layout and commands as everything can be achieved much more quickly and efficiently on a modern connection. I am running at 1200 baud on my old Mac which means that pages take a little while to refresh. I'd love to pick up an old Amiga or something classic that can support a higher transfer rate.

    Kind regards,

    Craig

    I'm typing this now on a CRT, connected to a 486 DX/33, logged in via mTelnet. The file downloading features don't work well, but this is pretty much what it was like for me in the 90s, except with much, much faster transfer speeds.

    I don't mind using new computers, but it is the glow of the CRT which hooks me in. Now I just have to get that CGA monochrome green phosphorescent screen working on a BBS.

    I just picked up an old 2001 aopen something or other with win98Se for the sole purpose of plopping synchronet 2.00 front door and bgfax on it ... I may kill win98 and put msdos6.22 and wfwg3.11.w32 if I can find a wifi nic driver ... but I'll likely use telix for callouts

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Realm of Dispair BBS - http://ephram.synchro.net:82
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thursday, July 09, 2020 15:52:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:16 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to calcmandan on Wed Jul 08 2020 01:38 pm

    That's a great story Daniel. I wish I had been around back during the glory days. My first foray onto the internet was back in 1995 when, as pair of 10 year olds, my friend fired on Duke Nukem 3D, dialed onto a server using his 28.8k modem and began a death match against 3 random players. I was absolutely blown away... both figuratively and literally (in the game!). Going back in time and seeing all this is a real privil for someone like me.

    I remember many DOS games back then supported 1-on-1 matches over the modem, he internet.

    Nightfox

    I first got internet service from my manager at work. The local ISP didn't care how may connections were on a single account, and we'd use the company account for gaming. Before Windows had the dialup connectio feature, I would dial up in Hyperterminal, provide credentials, then crank up Quake. I recall having to put in the IP address, port, and password to get into a game server.
    Before then, we'd have parties at a friend's house and he had coax ethernet running from his den to the kitchen and living room. Coax made it easy to
    add players since it was just a matter of adding another T and length of cable and move the terminator. I forgot which brand card they were, but they had both a bnc and RJ45 connector.

    In the bottom of a box full of old pc stuff I think I still have a 10mb ethernet hub with a 10baseT bnc port. One day at work someone was throwing away a bunch of RG58 cable and some T's, and I should've asked for a scrap
    pass for it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to MRO on Saturday, July 11, 2020 00:33:22
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Mortifis on Wed Jul 08 2020 11:32 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Mortifis to Nightfox on Thu Jul 09 2020 12:55 am

    ... it's a strange world indeed :-P re: subject


    it's a dovenet tradition to totally ignore and never change a subject line

    LOL; I've never changed a subject line on a BBS... SMH

    I do, however, change the TO when appropriate.

    pAULIE42o
    M@STERMiND
    AmericanPiBBS.com

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to calcmandan on Saturday, July 11, 2020 00:44:29
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Fri Jul 10 2020 05:55 pm

    Nightfox wrote to calcmandan <=-

    BBS'ing is natural to me.

    I also grew up using DOS, so I am comfortable with a command line.
    I mainly use a GUI these days, but I open up a command prompt
    sometimes because I think there are some tasks that I think are just
    easier with a command line.

    Mhm yeah. I spent a number of years running kde and yakuake for terminal set set to fullscreen. So when I launchx yakuake automatically launches. Then the hdd was placed in a swapper in my 5.25in tray and had a drive for windows when I used to game.

    These days I run Arch, usually with a flavor of KDE - but don't even boot into x. I find myself running startx less and less and less. :P

    pAULIE42o
    M@STERMiND
    AmericanPiBBS.com

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to Moondog on Saturday, July 11, 2020 01:00:08
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Thu Jul 09 2020 03:52 pm

    I remember many DOS games back then supported 1-on-1 matches over the
    modem, he internet.
    Before then, we'd have parties at a friend's house and he had coax ethernet running from his den to the kitchen and living room. Coax made it easy to add players since it was just a matter of adding another T and length of cable and move the terminator. I forgot which brand card they were, but they had both a bnc and RJ45 connector.

    Tee hee; I remember both of these options before internets.

    My favorite was the in person game parties... in fact, a bunch of us BBS folks would meet up every other weekend and do exactly that..

    These threads have been a walk down memories past.

    pAULIE42o
    M@STERMiND
    AmericanPiBBS.com

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Saturday, July 11, 2020 17:21:02
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Jul 09 2020 06:42 pm

    I'm typing this now on a CRT, connected to a 486 DX/33, logged in via mTelnet. The file downloading features don't work well, but this is pretty much what it was like for me in the 90s, except with much, much faster transfer speeds.
    I don't mind using new computers, but it is the glow of the CRT which hooks me in. Now I just have to get that CGA monochrome green phosphorescent screen working on a BBS.

    I agree, there's something special about the glow of a CRT that you don't get with an LCD. Despite the poor performance, single-tasking and general clunkiness of the setup, bringing a retro machine online has its perks. The loud and tactile M0110 keyboard from 1984 I am typing on right now brings joy to my fingertips. The humming of the disk drive & monochrome rays of the 9" CRT provides me with a comfort and reassurance my modern gaming laptop could never hope to offer.

    Best of luck with your monochrome green monitor. I myself would love to get an old Apple //c with the original green monochrome Monitor //c to BBS on.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Dennisk@VERT/MINDSEYE to Andeddu on Sunday, July 12, 2020 12:06:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Jul 09 2020 06:42 pm

    I'm typing this now on a CRT, connected to a 486 DX/33, logged in via mTelnet. The file downloading features don't work well, but this is pretty much what it was like for me in the 90s, except with much, much faster transfer speeds.
    I don't mind using new computers, but it is the glow of the CRT which hooks me in. Now I just have to get that CGA monochrome green phosphorescent screen working on a BBS.

    I agree, there's something special about the glow of a CRT that you
    don't get with an LCD. Despite the poor performance, single-tasking and general clunkiness of the setup, bringing a retro machine online has
    its perks. The loud and tactile M0110 keyboard from 1984 I am typing on right now brings joy to my fingertips. The humming of the disk drive & monochrome rays of the 9" CRT provides me with a comfort and
    reassurance my modern gaming laptop could never hope to offer.

    Best of luck with your monochrome green monitor. I myself would love to get an old Apple //c with the original green monochrome Monitor //c to
    BBS on.

    I have a machine with a Voodoo 2 graphics card, and that graphic card has a composite out. I hooked that up to the monochrome monitor, and it worked! Well, not that well, the picture was distorted due to the differing refresh rate and resolution, but I was able to see Doom run on that green monochrome monitor, which is an interesting site to behold.

    Unfortunately, I have the monitor, keyboard, and the motherboard and addon cards, but not the case of that old PC system I had. The case still has the ribbon cables, powersupply and 360K drives in it. It should have been at my parents place, but I suspect it may have been left behind at a place I was renting years ago. That, or my parents threw it away.

    I do like the tactile, old school technology, because it makes it clearer you are using a machine. Also, there are no barriers between you and the tech. Your interaction was more with hardware, than with software. Now, despite the power, you are dealing more and more with abstractions and concepts built on top of hardware, rather than the machine itself.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Mind's Eye - mindseye.ddns.net - Melbourne Australia
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to paulie420 on Saturday, July 11, 2020 20:37:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: paulie420 to Moondog on Sat Jul 11 2020 01:00 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Thu Jul 09 2020 03:52 pm

    I remember many DOS games back then supported 1-on-1 matches over the
    modem, he internet.
    Before then, we'd have parties at a friend's house and he had coax ethernet running from his den to the kitchen and living room. Coax made easy to add players since it was just a matter of adding another T and length of cable and move the terminator. I forgot which brand card they were, but they had both a bnc and RJ45 connector.

    Tee hee; I remember both of these options before internets.

    My favorite was the in person game parties... in fact, a bunch of us BBS fol

    These threads have been a walk down memories past.

    pAULIE42o
    M@STERMiND
    AmericanPiBBS.com

    I went to lan parties up to 2007-2008. There was a group about 50 minutes
    away that owuld gather every other month, and we play in the basement of a grange hall. One of the hosts was an electrician, and bult this elaborate power distribution system they could wire into the hall's breaker panel.
    Each set of tables had a 24 port switch. At the most we had clsoe to 100 people show up, but otherwise it was 75-80. At first we were all playing the same games together, then eventually the groups of friends would hot their
    own smaller games. It was cool playing Battlefield Vietnam or BF2 with 30 or more on each side. We'd have UT2004 contests, Counterstrike pvp, and the
    hosts brough loads of promotional stuff from sponsors. Good prizes for
    winning plus great door prizes. The hosts would make up a big cooker full of pulled pork or sloppy joes, or nacho toppings.

    Each time it was less and less players, nad more games that absolutely
    required internet allowed people to stay at home. When we first started,
    most games would run without an internet connection.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to paulie420 on Sunday, July 12, 2020 00:17:26
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: paulie420 to MRO on Sat Jul 11 2020 12:33 am

    it's a dovenet tradition to totally ignore and never change a
    subject line

    LOL; I've never changed a subject line on a BBS... SMH

    I do, however, change the TO when appropriate.

    Yeah, I was going to say I don't think it's really unique to Dove-Net. I have changed the subject a few times though (and I've seen others do it too).

    One of my updates to SlyEdit a while ago was adding the ability to change the subject within SlyEdit, so it's easier to do if you want to.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sunday, July 12, 2020 04:09:33
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to paulie420 on Sun Jul 12 2020 12:17 am

    One of my updates to SlyEdit a while ago was adding the ability to change th subject within SlyEdit, so it's easier to do if you want to.


    so do you no longer have a distribution .zip or whatever for slyedit and it's in the cvs?
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sunday, July 12, 2020 10:33:39
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 04:09 am

    One of my updates to SlyEdit a while ago was adding the ability to
    change th subject within SlyEdit, so it's easier to do if you want to.

    so do you no longer have a distribution .zip or whatever for slyedit and it's in the cvs?

    Correct, it's just in the CVS now. I had added SlyEdit to the CVS quite a while ago, and since SlyEdit was added to the stock Synchronet configuration (as of the 3.16 release, I believe), I started to feel like it didn't make sense for me to maintain it in both the CVS and as a stand-alone package anymore. So it's just in the CVS now.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sunday, July 12, 2020 13:41:35
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Jul 12 2020 10:33 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 04:09 am

    One of my updates to SlyEdit a while ago was adding the ability to
    change th subject within SlyEdit, so it's easier to do if you want to.

    so do you no longer have a distribution .zip or whatever for slyedit an it's in the cvs?

    Correct, it's just in the CVS now. I had added SlyEdit to the CVS quite a while ago, and since SlyEdit was added to the stock Synchronet configuration (as of the 3.16 release, I believe), I started to feel like it didn't make sense for me to maintain it in both the CVS and as a stand-alone package anymore. So it's just in the CVS now.

    oh that's too bad. i'd like to just get it in one package instead of picking the parts up from the cvs in the various directories.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Sunday, July 12, 2020 19:02:32
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sun Jul 12 2020 12:06 pm

    I have a machine with a Voodoo 2 graphics card, and that graphic card has a composite out. I hooked that up to the monochrome monitor, and it worked! Well, not that well, the picture was distorted due to the differing refresh rate and resolution, but I was able to see Doom run on that green monochrome monitor, which is an interesting site to behold.

    Wow, I remember that 3dfx card back when in my school days. My friend had a Voodoo 2 3DFX card which he used on games like the original Half-Life, he was the envy of my small tech loving geek group until my dad purchased a monster Pentium III with a Geforce graphics card. Ah, seems like you're onto plums with your old case - such a shame!

    I agree, I feel more focused using this old machine. It's just one post at a time, no distractions. No constant adverts popping up, videos appearing in the corner of the screen or audacious banners - just rows and rows of lovely text. The internet's hayday was probably back in the early 2000s when broadband was widely available but web pages were largely unadulterated by corporate advertising & data collection programmes. This is probably why I am addicted to BBSing right now - it's like being transported back to a much happier pre-Facebook, Amazon and Google period in time.

    These old-school machines give you a much more raw and direct experience, it's like whenever Jeremy Clarkson gets into an 80s sports car, he always speaks of the lack of ABS, power-streetring and traction control enhancing his drive, it's a 1:1 man to machine interface with nothing in between.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Sunday, July 12, 2020 14:36:36
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Sun Jul 12 2020 07:02 pm

    Wow, I remember that 3dfx card back when in my school days. My friend had a Voodoo 2 3DFX card which he used on games like the original Half-Life, he was the envy of my small tech loving geek group until my dad purchased a monster Pentium III with a Geforce graphics card. Ah, seems like you're onto plums with your old case - such a shame!

    I had a 3DFX Voodoo card in the late 90s, and then a Voodoo 2. I was fairly excited when I got those and installed them in my PC. The 3DFX Voodoo cards seemed to be able to handle anything you threw at them, and any game using 3DFX ran fast and smooth, and looked great too. Since those early 3DFX cards were 3D-only, you also needed a regular video card for the everyday 2D graphics. For a while, I had mine paired with a Matrox Millennium G200, which I think was one of the best general-purpose video cards at the time.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to paulie420 on Monday, July 13, 2020 06:40:00
    paulie420 wrote to calcmandan <=-

    These days I run Arch, usually with a flavor of KDE - but don't even
    boot into x. I find myself running startx less and less and less. :P

    Me too. What are your daily tools?

    For me it's tmux, emacs, fpc, emacs gnus, alpine, wordgrinder, fbi, fbgs, mplayer, lynx, links2, youtube-dl

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to calcmandan on Monday, July 13, 2020 06:37:10
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: calcmandan to paulie420 on Mon Jul 13 2020 06:40 am

    paulie420 wrote to calcmandan <=-

    These days I run Arch, usually with a flavor of KDE - but don't even boot into x. I find myself running startx less and less and less. :P

    Me too. What are your daily tools?

    For me it's tmux, emacs, fpc, emacs gnus, alpine, wordgrinder, fbi, fbgs, mplayer,
    lynx, links2, youtube-dl

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world

    Wordgrinder for the win!

    Sadly it looks like the deveoper is not very receptive. I had some patches laying
    around for fixing some odd, harmless behaviors, and sent some emails to the man, but
    he never bothered to answer. I even had a patch for exporting to RTF. This last patch
    I have lost, I should rewrite it :-(

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Nightfox on Monday, July 13, 2020 10:13:38
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Jul 12 2020 02:36 pm

    I had a 3DFX Voodoo card in the late 90s, and then a Voodoo 2. I was fairly excited when I got those and installed them in my PC. The 3DFX Voodoo cards seemed to be able to handle anything you threw at them, and any game using 3DFX ran fast and smooth, and looked great too. Since those early 3DFX cards were 3D-only, you also needed a regular video card for the everyday 2D graphics.
    For a while, I had mine paired with a Matrox Millennium G200, which I think was one of the best general-purpose video cards at the time.

    We had a common experience.

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From Dennisk@VERT/MINDSEYE to Andeddu on Monday, July 13, 2020 21:27:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    @VIA: VERT/AMSTRAD
    @MSGID: <5F0B5038.630.dove-internet@amstrad.simulant.uk>
    @REPLY: <5F0A718C.309.dove-internet@mindseye.ddns.net>
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sun Jul 12 2020 12:06 pm

    I have a machine with a Voodoo 2 graphics card, and that graphic card has a composite out. I hooked that up to the monochrome monitor, and it worked! Well, not that well, the picture was distorted due to the differing refresh rate and resolution, but I was able to see Doom run on that green monochrome monitor, which is an interesting site to behold.

    Wow, I remember that 3dfx card back when in my school days. My friend
    had a Voodoo 2 3DFX card which he used on games like the original Half-Life, he was the envy of my small tech loving geek group until my
    dad purchased a monster Pentium III with a Geforce graphics card. Ah, seems like you're onto plums with your old case - such a shame!

    I agree, I feel more focused using this old machine. It's just one post
    at a time, no distractions. No constant adverts popping up, videos appearing in the corner of the screen or audacious banners - just rows
    and rows of lovely text. The internet's hayday was probably back in the early 2000s when broadband was widely available but web pages were
    largely unadulterated by corporate advertising & data collection programmes. This is probably why I am addicted to BBSing right now -
    it's like being transported back to a much happier pre-Facebook, Amazon and Google period in time.

    These old-school machines give you a much more raw and direct
    experience, it's like whenever Jeremy Clarkson gets into an 80s sports car, he always speaks of the lack of ABS, power-streetring and traction control enhancing his drive, it's a 1:1 man to machine interface with nothing in between.

    Good analogy between older computers and 80's sports cars. I do prefer to drive a manual for the same reason, that feeling of control. The internet in the early 2000's did have a lot of banner ads, and pop up ads. I don't miss those! Web page design was better though, no huge fonts and masses of white space and hamburger menus.

    I was talking to someone today about whether older computers were better to learn on than newer ones. Like many of my era, we started programming on a "Home Computer", for me, it was briefly an Apple IIe, then a few inbetween and a Commodore 64. There were advantages to having it start up instantly, no configuration, being able to key in a program directly. But the biggest one was that there was nothing else going on. Thats why sometimes in Linux I like to switch to a text console and work there. Its' not so much the CLI or text like nature, its the ability to have the computer as focused on what I'm doing, as I am! It's just you and what you are working on, and nothing else. I think that is the real reason I look back fondly to the old DOS terminal, it was the fact that there were no distractions, nothing going on that wasn't related to what you were trying to do. Nothing else in your field of vision unrelated to the task at hand.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Mind's Eye - mindseye.ddns.net - Melbourne Australia
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Monday, July 13, 2020 18:06:49
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Jul 12 2020 02:36 pm

    I had a 3DFX Voodoo card in the late 90s, and then a Voodoo 2. I was fairly excited when I got those and installed them in my PC. The 3DFX Voodoo cards seemed to be able to handle anything you threw at them, and any game using 3DFX ran fast and smooth, and looked great too. Since those early 3DFX cards were 3D-only, you also needed a regular video card for the everyday 2D graphics. For a while, I had mine paired with a Matrox Millennium G200, which I think was one of the best general-purpose video cards at the time.

    Nightfox

    I never owned such a 3D accelerator because we moved on from the PC which was a weak 486DX2 to a Playstation prior to around 1999 when my dad purchased the above computer. I did watch an excellent video on YouTube by LGR where he made an attempt to run DooM 3 on Windows 98 with a 12mb Voodoo 2. He surprisingly succeeded however the results were eh... mixed to say the least! In that video he mentioned that 3DFX cards were strictly 3D only. We've sure come a long way since those days - 3DFX will, however, remain an important footnote in graphics history.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Monday, July 13, 2020 13:53:17
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Mon Jul 13 2020 06:06 pm

    I had a 3DFX Voodoo card in the late 90s, and then a Voodoo 2. I was
    fairly excited when I got those and installed them in my PC. The 3DFX

    I never owned such a 3D accelerator because we moved on from the PC which was a weak 486DX2 to a Playstation prior to around 1999 when my dad purchased the above computer. I did watch an excellent video on YouTube by

    Moved on? Did you never have a PC again after that? :P

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 14, 2020 00:13:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Jul 13 2020 09:27 pm

    Good analogy between older computers and 80's sports cars. I do prefer to drive a manual for the same reason, that feeling of control. The internet in the early 2000's did have a lot of banner ads, and pop up ads. I don't miss those! Web page design was better though, no huge fonts and masses of white space and hamburger menus.

    I was talking to someone today about whether older computers were better to learn on than newer ones. Like many of my era, we started programming on a "Home Computer", for me, it was briefly an Apple IIe, then a few inbetween and a Commodore 64. There were advantages to having it start up instantly, no configuration, being able to key in a program directly. But the biggest one was that there was nothing else going on. Thats why sometimes in Linux I like to switch to a text console and work there. Its' not so much the CLI or text like nature, its the ability to have the computer as focused on what I'm doing, as I am! It's just you and what you are working on, and nothing else. I think that is the real reason I look back fondly to the old DOS terminal, it was the fact that there were no distractions, nothing going on that wasn't related to what you were trying to do. Nothing else in your field of vision unrelated to the task at hand.


    Looking back, you're quite right about those ads... they were even nastier as they were pop-ups rather than being banners or videos built into the page! The BBC posted a recent article documenting how their web-page design has changed from 2000-2020 & I really did much prefer their clean and almost minimalist design from 20 years ago.

    I agree, I am enjoying the single process nature of this 68K machine - it's so very focused, slow and methodical. When I am on my iPad Mini 5, which is an absolute powerhouse for its form factor, I am flicking through multiple website tabs, chatting away on iMessenger & listening to music or watching a video shrunk into the corner edge of the screen. Wish so much going on, things can get very chaotic very quickly. Heavy multi-tasking is something Gen-Z cannot function without, they're hardwired now with a minimal ADHD attention span with 90% of what they see & hear slipping through their brains without ever getting processed. The human brain was never developed to deal with & make sense of so many distractions - it's all white noise! In that sense, going back to basics, and taking a trip down memory lane with DOS is not such a bad thing.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 14, 2020 22:38:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Jul 13 2020 09:27 pm

    Good analogy between older computers and 80's sports cars. I do prefer to drive a manual for the same reason, that feeling of control. The internet in the early 2000's did have a lot of banner ads, and pop up ads. I don't miss those! Web page design was better though, no huge fonts and masses of white space and hamburger menus.

    I was talking to someone today about whether older computers were better to learn on than newer ones. Like many of my era, we started programming on a "Home Computer", for me, it was briefly an Apple IIe, then a few inbetween and a Commodore 64. There were advantages to having it start up instantly, no configuration, being able to key in a program directly. But the biggest one was that there was nothing else going on. Thats why sometimes in Linux I like to switch to a text console and work there. Its' not so much the CLI or text like nature, its the ability to have the computer as focused on what I'm doing, as I am! It's just you and what you are working on, and nothing else. I think that is the real reason I look back fondly to the old DOS terminal, it was the fact that there were no distractions, nothing going on that wasn't related to what you were trying to do. Nothing else in your field of vision unrelated to the task at hand.


    Looking back, you're quite right about those ads... they were even
    nastier as they were pop-ups rather than being banners or videos built into the page! The BBC posted a recent article documenting how their web-page design has changed from 2000-2020 & I really did much prefer their clean and almost minimalist design from 20 years ago.

    I agree, I am enjoying the single process nature of this 68K machine - it's so very focused, slow and methodical. When I am on my iPad Mini 5, which is an absolute powerhouse for its form factor, I am flicking
    through multiple website tabs, chatting away on iMessenger & listening
    to music or watching a video shrunk into the corner edge of the screen. Wish so much going on, things can get very chaotic very quickly. Heavy multi-tasking is something Gen-Z cannot function without, they're hardwired now with a minimal ADHD attention span with 90% of what they
    see & hear slipping through their brains without ever getting
    processed. The human brain was never developed to deal with & make
    sense of so many distractions - it's all white noise! In that sense,
    going back to basics, and taking a trip down memory lane with DOS is
    not such a bad thing.

    Ha, I remember when I was doing IT work years ago, my manager was telling me of this time he was looking at stuff "not suitable for work", and one of the other managers came to his desk. It was an open plan office, and it was just my and him in the back corner. He closed the main IE window, but all these pop ups kept coming up, and no matter what he closed, more pop ups appeared! Couldn't get rid of them all in time...

    I use Linux, so you can always call up a text-only screen, and run a program from that, such as multimail. Instant "DOS mode" with a CTRL-ALT-F2. Best of all, you can still multitask a little, so you can at least play some music or have a download or something going in the background.

    I think the difference between people who may have used computers before GUI and younger people used to iPads, is that for many, the first time they used a computer, it was a passive tool. A box of circuits you can make do what you want. You are kind of aware that all the OS and GUI stuff is just an abstraction. I first used an Apple IIe, and then I saw the GUI and OS take more and more prominence as an "experience". Whereas kids that first used iPads, first see the glitzy UI, and then maybe, dig underneath to realise there really is a general purpose machine under it. Maybe.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 14, 2020 23:41:43
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Mon Jul 13 2020 01:53 pm

    Moved on? Did you never have a PC again after that? :P

    Nightfox


    Hehe, I didn't own a PC again until 1999 thus skipping the entire PS2/Xbox/Gamecube console generation. My staples were pretty much online multiplayer shooters such as Quake 3, Unreal Tournament & Counter-Strike... as you can see, the internet had a huge effect on me when I was a kid!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 00:04:34
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 14 2020 10:38 pm

    Ha, I remember when I was doing IT work years ago, my manager was telling me of this time he was looking at stuff "not suitable for work", and one of the other managers came to his desk. It was an open plan office, and it was just my and him in the back corner. He closed the main IE window, but all these pop ups kept coming up, and no matter what he closed, more pop ups appeared! Couldn't get rid of them all in time...

    Haha, I can recall a similar incident involving me as a very young teenager in my bedrooom enthusiastically browsing some colourful websites when my mum walked in. I shutdown the browser as quickly as possible but got hit by a barrage of smut-filled pop-ups. It never stopped me, but I was pretty sure my parents were aware of what it was I had allocated much of my internet usage to.

    I tend to use the iPad Mini 5 now whenever I browse the internet. I don't think I can go back to furiously typing away at a desk (unless I am BBsing!). My gaming laptop is almost exclusivly reserved for gaming and nothing else. Much of the videos I watch are on my iPhone 8 too. I don't own a modern desktop PC so spend very little time in my study.

    I don't think young people think about operating systems, GUIs or otherwise. iOS, MacOS, Windows 10 & Android, etc... are so intuitive that little to no thought is required in relation to what lies under the interface. Things are expected to just work - no troubleshooting whatsoever, just press the icons.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 14, 2020 20:07:38
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Tue Jul 14 2020 11:41 pm

    Moved on? Did you never have a PC again after that? :P

    Hehe, I didn't own a PC again until 1999 thus skipping the entire PS2/Xbox/Gamecube console generation. My staples were pretty much online multiplayer shooters such as Quake 3, Unreal Tournament & Counter-Strike... as you can see, the internet had a huge effect on me when I was a kid!

    :) I tended to play more PC games than console games, because PC games seemed easier to get at the time. If you didn't have the money to buy a PC game, you could at least play shareware games (or maybe get a copy of a game from a friend or family member..). Also, I tended to like building my own PC too. And I also sometimes used my PC for homework in high school - Doing research with things like Microsoft Encarta (computer encyclopedia) and typing & printing reports instead of hand-writing them.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 18:39:00
    On 07-14-20 22:38, Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Looking back, you're quite right about those ads... they were even
    nastier as they were pop-ups rather than being banners or videos built into the page! The BBC posted a recent article documenting how their web-page design has changed from 2000-2020 & I really did much prefer their clean and almost minimalist design from 20 years ago.

    Yes, there was that time when popup ads were all the rage and they often multiplied on dodgy sites. :/

    Ha, I remember when I was doing IT work years ago, my manager was
    telling me of this time he was looking at stuff "not suitable for
    work", and one of the other managers came to his desk. It was an open plan office, and it was just my and him in the back corner. He closed
    the main IE window, but all these pop ups kept coming up, and no matter what he closed, more pop ups appeared! Couldn't get rid of them all in time...

    Oops! :D yep I certainly remember some sites that opened a gazillion popups, and not just pr0n sites either.

    I use Linux, so you can always call up a text-only screen, and run a program from that, such as multimail. Instant "DOS mode" with a CTRL-ALT-F2. Best of all, you can still multitask a little, so you can
    at least play some music or have a download or something going in the background.

    Linux is good that way. Unless I need the machine for web surfing or general desktop (GUI) apps, I prefer to run at the command line. I find with a little scripting, I often get more done than others do by clicking on a mouse everywhre. And on Linux, it's quite easy to make scripts self adjust to different conditions. I have some that check the current working directory (and save that in a variable), then act accordingly.

    I think the difference between people who may have used computers
    before GUI and younger people used to iPads, is that for many, the
    first time they used a computer, it was a passive tool. A box of
    circuits you can make do what you want. You are kind of aware that all the OS and GUI stuff is just an abstraction. I first used an Apple
    IIe, and then I saw the GUI and OS take more and more prominence as an "experience". Whereas kids that first used iPads, first see the glitzy UI, and then maybe, dig underneath to realise there really is a general purpose machine under it. Maybe.

    I first used an Apple II and loved it. Found transitioning to DOS based PCs straightforward, especially since I had used CP/M on the Apple II. That made DOS somewhat familiar. Later, I did find DOS's lack of multitasking constraining until I discovered DESQview, then OS/2 . :)


    ... Evil is a hill. We stand on ours, speak about others.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 14, 2020 15:02:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    I agree, I feel more focused using this old machine. It's just one post
    at a time, no distractions. No constant adverts popping up, videos appearing in the corner of the screen or audacious banners - just rows
    and rows of lovely text.

    Yes!

    I do most of my BBSing with an offline reader, MultiMail. I download
    QWK packets to my PC via FTP, then fire up a full-screen DOSBOX
    window. Once I've got a DOS prompt filling my entire screen, I run
    Multimail, TheDraw, Qedit and VDE and interact in a mostly
    distraction-free environment. I can't easily copy and paste URLs
    unless I save them to a file, so it keeps me focused on the BBS
    environment.



    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to calcmandan on Tuesday, July 14, 2020 15:04:00
    calcmandan wrote to paulie420 <=-

    For me it's tmux, emacs, fpc, emacs gnus, alpine, wordgrinder, fbi,
    fbgs, mplayer, lynx, links2, youtube-dl

    and a cal program that stopped in 1995? :)

    I've had the O'Reilly GNU/emacs book in my library for years, I
    decided this week to dust off my emacs-fu and see how much I
    remember...



    ... From nothing to more than nothing
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Dennisk@VERT/MINDSEYE to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 20:29:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    @VIA: VERT/AMSTRAD
    @MSGID: <5F0E3A02.643.dove-internet@amstrad.simulant.uk>
    @REPLY: <5F0DA99C.640.dove-internet@endofthelinebbs.com>
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 14 2020 10:38 pm

    Ha, I remember when I was doing IT work years ago, my manager was telling me of this time he was looking at stuff "not suitable for work", and one of the other managers came to his desk. It was an open plan office, and it was just my and him in the back corner. He closed the main IE window, but all these pop ups kept coming up, and no matter what he closed, more pop ups appeared! Couldn't get rid of them all in time...

    Haha, I can recall a similar incident involving me as a very young teenager in my bedrooom enthusiastically browsing some colourful
    websites when my mum walked in. I shutdown the browser as quickly as possible but got hit by a barrage of smut-filled pop-ups. It never
    stopped me, but I was pretty sure my parents were aware of what it was
    I had allocated much of my internet usage to.

    I tend to use the iPad Mini 5 now whenever I browse the internet. I
    don't think I can go back to furiously typing away at a desk (unless I
    am BBsing!). My gaming laptop is almost exclusivly reserved for gaming
    and nothing else. Much of the videos I watch are on my iPhone 8 too. I don't own a modern desktop PC so spend very little time in my study.

    I don't think young people think about operating systems, GUIs or otherwise. iOS, MacOS, Windows 10 & Android, etc... are so intuitive
    that little to no thought is required in relation to what lies under
    the interface. Things are expected to just work - no troubleshooting whatsoever, just press the icons.

    I will eventually get a tablet when my daughter needs one for school. In the early years, they the ones at school, but later on we will be required to provide our own.

    I do wonder if in the near future, we will have difficulty maintaining our technology, because so few people understand how it works fundamentally. The fact that these system are "locked down" make it worse. Steve Wozniak was able to work in a time when technology was open. I have behind me in the bookshelf a technical manual on the XT system, which has schematics, detailed configuration, and pages and pages of BIOS source code in assembly. You could easily understand the details how how things worked at a fundamental level. Now?

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Mind's Eye - mindseye.ddns.net - Melbourne Australia
  • From Dennisk@VERT/MINDSEYE to Vk3jed on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 20:40:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-

    @VIA: VERT/FREEWAY
    @MSGID: <5F0EC342.642.dove-internet@freeway.apana.org.au>
    @REPLY: <5F0DA99C.640.dove-internet@endofthelinebbs.com>
    On 07-14-20 22:38, Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Looking back, you're quite right about those ads... they were even
    nastier as they were pop-ups rather than being banners or videos built into the page! The BBC posted a recent article documenting how their web-page design has changed from 2000-2020 & I really did much prefer their clean and almost minimalist design from 20 years ago.

    Yes, there was that time when popup ads were all the rage and they
    often multiplied on dodgy sites. :/

    Ha, I remember when I was doing IT work years ago, my manager was
    telling me of this time he was looking at stuff "not suitable for
    work", and one of the other managers came to his desk. It was an open plan office, and it was just my and him in the back corner. He closed
    the main IE window, but all these pop ups kept coming up, and no matter what he closed, more pop ups appeared! Couldn't get rid of them all in time...

    Oops! :D yep I certainly remember some sites that opened a gazillion popups, and not just pr0n sites either.

    I use Linux, so you can always call up a text-only screen, and run a program from that, such as multimail. Instant "DOS mode" with a CTRL-ALT-F2. Best of all, you can still multitask a little, so you can
    at least play some music or have a download or something going in the background.

    Linux is good that way. Unless I need the machine for web surfing or general desktop (GUI) apps, I prefer to run at the command line. I
    find with a little scripting, I often get more done than others do by clicking on a mouse everywhre. And on Linux, it's quite easy to make scripts self adjust to different conditions. I have some that check
    the current working directory (and save that in a variable), then act accordingly.

    I've done that too. I have a basic backup script, that operates correctly depending on which machine I run it from. Even better, with the FVWM window manager, I can script THAT to call my script through a simple GUI form that I can bring up with a Windows Key-J, which prompts for the backup level and volume to backup. All this with some basic scripts. It may be possible on Mac OS, I did try, but its clumsy to use the automator. For Windows, I don't know.


    I think the difference between people who may have used computers
    before GUI and younger people used to iPads, is that for many, the
    first time they used a computer, it was a passive tool. A box of
    circuits you can make do what you want. You are kind of aware that all the OS and GUI stuff is just an abstraction. I first used an Apple
    IIe, and then I saw the GUI and OS take more and more prominence as an "experience". Whereas kids that first used iPads, first see the glitzy UI, and then maybe, dig underneath to realise there really is a general purpose machine under it. Maybe.

    I first used an Apple II and loved it. Found transitioning to DOS
    based PCs straightforward, especially since I had used CP/M on the
    Apple II. That made DOS somewhat familiar. Later, I did find DOS's
    lack of multitasking constraining until I discovered DESQview, then
    OS/2 . :)

    I heard many good things about OS/2, but never saw it in action for more than 20 minutes while a friend was raving about it and its excellent multitasking. DOS I had to learn myself after my grandmother gave me an XT clone with some floppies that she bought at a garage sale. Knowing only a couple of commands, I kind of "figured out" how to run programs, the rest came from books, magazines, friends. Having previously used a VZ200, Vic 20 and Commodore 64, typing commands was normal, but what was new was the fact you were no longer in a BASIC interpreter, and you could actually exit programs.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Mind's Eye - mindseye.ddns.net - Melbourne Australia
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 08:04:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 14 2020 10:38 pm

    Ha, I remember when I was doing IT work years ago, my manager was telling me of this time he was looking at stuff "not suitable for work", and one of the other managers came to his desk. It was an open plan office, and it was just my and him in the back corner. He closed the main IE window, but all these pop ups kept coming up, and no matter what he closed, more pop ups appeared! Couldn't get rid of them all in time...

    Haha, I can recall a similar incident involving me as a very young teenager in my bedrooom enthusiastically browsing some colourful
    websites when my mum walked in. I shutdown the browser as quickly as possible but got hit by a barrage of smut-filled pop-ups. It never
    stopped me, but I was pretty sure my parents were aware of what it was
    I had allocated much of my internet usage to.

    Of course they were.

    I tend to use the iPad Mini 5 now whenever I browse the internet. I
    don't think I can go back to furiously typing away at a desk (unless I
    am BBsing!). My gaming laptop is almost exclusivly reserved for gaming
    and nothing else. Much of the videos I watch are on my iPhone 8 too. I don't own a modern desktop PC so spend very little time in my study.

    I used to rely on my devices as well. Now, not so much. I've said before how I no longer own a cell phone and my tablet is used almost exclusively for flight planning/navigation.

    I spent most my typing/computing time on my workstation. I got it used from a mom&pop shop that had a stack of retired corporate systems. Got it for $80 after
    we made a deal to max the RAM and remove the HDD/Windows.

    I had a drive at home ready to use so.. I run command line linux and it fulfills
    all my needs. Even youtube.

    I don't think young people think about operating systems, GUIs or otherwise. iOS, MacOS, Windows 10 & Android, etc... are so intuitive
    that little to no thought is required in relation to what lies under
    the interface. Things are expected to just work - no troubleshooting whatsoever, just press the icons.

    They don't, unless of course they're going to go into a field requiring knowledge of these things like IT or STEM.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 13:06:23
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Tue Jul 14 2020 08:07 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Tue Jul 14 2020 11:41 pm

    Moved on? Did you never have a PC again after that? :P

    Hehe, I didn't own a PC again until 1999 thus skipping the
    entire PS2/Xbox/Gamecube console generation. My staples we
    pretty much online multiplayer shooters such as Quake 3,
    Unreal Tournament & Counter-Strike... as you can see, the
    internet had a huge effect on me when I was a kid!

    :) I tended to play more PC games than console games, because
    games seemed easier to get at the time. If you didn't have the
    money to buy a PC game, you could at least play shareware games
    (or maybe get a copy of a game from a friend or family member..
    Also, I tended to like building my own PC too. And I also
    sometimes used my PC for homework in high school - Doing resear
    with things like Microsoft Encarta (computer encyclopedia) and
    typing & printing reports instead of hand-writing them.

    Nightfox


    It is funny. I used to be a game console kid. There was only a
    computer at home which my parents used for work, and they did a
    very bad job at maintaining it. If you installed a game in it you
    could find my father formatted the computer the next day because
    he had broken it or something.

    I think the real appeal of consoles, which has already been lost,
    is that if you had the console and a few accessories, you were
    granted it would just work. You got a PlayStation game, and if you
    had a PlayStation, a controller and a memory card, the game would
    just work, period. If you had a PC game, you could discover your
    graphic card was not powerful enough, or storage was running low,
    or that in order to play you had to turn this quakity knob down...

    Nowadays, when my friends and I set a game console orgy, we always
    face problems because that simplicity has been voided. There are
    online accounts whose credentials people forget, wireless
    controllers that run out of battery, etc...


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 12:32:17
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 01:06 pm

    I think the real appeal of consoles, which has already been lost,
    is that if you had the console and a few accessories, you were
    granted it would just work. You got a PlayStation game, and if you
    had a PlayStation, a controller and a memory card, the game would
    just work, period. If you had a PC game, you could discover your
    graphic card was not powerful enough, or storage was running low,
    or that in order to play you had to turn this quakity knob down...

    That's true. I don't think it's that big of a deal though.. If you are a computer user, you'll probably always eventually upgrade or replace your current PC at some point. And in that way, it's very similar to consoles - A new console game might require a more powerful console, thus requiring you to buy a new console to play a game you might want to buy.

    It's probably a double-edged sword. I think the fact that computers can be upgraded is one of the good things about computers. If all you need is a better graphics card, you can usually just buy a new graphics card and put it in your PC. Although honestly, graphics cards themselves can be rather spendy, and there are game consoles that cost about the same as just a graphics card by itself.

    If you use a PC for other things though, I think having a PC can be a good value.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 12:46:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 01:41 pm

    Correct, it's just in the CVS now. I had added SlyEdit to the CVS
    quite a while ago, and since SlyEdit was added to the stock Synchronet
    configuration (as of the 3.16 release, I believe), I started to feel
    like it didn't make sense for me to maintain it in both the CVS and as
    a stand-alone package anymore. So it's just in the CVS now.

    oh that's too bad. i'd like to just get it in one package instead of picking the parts up from the cvs in the various directories.

    Just keeping SlyEdit in CVS makes it easier for me as I don't have to update documentation & links in so many places. With the stand-alone SlyEdit package, I also had to make sure the documentation in the SlyEdit package was up to date, then update the download links on my BBS doors/tools page on my BBS to point to the new SlyEdit archive, in addition to updating it in the SVN and updating the SlyEdit documentation on the Synchronet wiki (which I like to keep up to date).

    I still have my BBS doors/tools page, but now I can just point it to the Synchronet CVS for SlyEdit. It doesn't need to refer to a specific version of a SlyEdit archive to download.

    Also, SlyEdit now uses dd_lightbar_menu.js, which is a lightbar menu library I created and added to the CVS in sbbs/exec/load. I could include dd_lightbar_menu.js with a stand-alone SlyEdit package, but that could potentially create some confusion in case someone overwrites their dd_lightbar_menu.js with the one in the SlyEdit package (which would eventually end up being outdated).

    TL;DR: I felt like keeping SlyEdit just in CVS would be easier to maintain docs etc. and minimize the chance of overwriting files with old copies etc..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 17:24:06
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Tue Jul 14 2020 08:07 pm

    :) I tended to play more PC games than console games, because PC games seemed easier to get at the time. If you didn't have the money to buy a PC game, you could at least play shareware games (or maybe get a copy of a game from a friend or family member..). Also, I tended to like building my own PC too. And I also sometimes used my PC for homework in high school - Doing research with things like Microsoft Encarta (computer encyclopedia) and typing & printing reports instead of hand-writing them.

    Nightfox


    I remember being obsessed with online gaming back in '99... I even picked up Age of Empires II and played fairly competitively on The Zone (MSN's old gaming network). Haha, Encarta was great... I still recall '95 which I used on the 486. It really was a great resource prior to Wikipedia. I especially loved watching the videos contained within.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 21:17:23
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Jul 15 2020 12:46 pm


    Also, SlyEdit now uses dd_lightbar_menu.js, which is a lightbar menu library created and added to the CVS in sbbs/exec/load. I could include dd_lightbar_menu.js with a stand-alone SlyEdit package, but that could potentially create some confusion in case someone overwrites their dd_lightbar_menu.js with the one in the SlyEdit package (which would eventua end up being outdated).

    TL;DR: I felt like keeping SlyEdit just in CVS would be easier to maintain d etc. and minimize the chance of overwriting files with old copies etc..


    ah, that's too bad. i want to update but dont want to hunt around for every slyedit file.

    i'll just keep running the old one that puts in fully characters when i use the arrow keys.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dennisk on Thursday, July 16, 2020 20:58:00
    On 07-15-20 20:40, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've done that too. I have a basic backup script, that operates
    correctly depending on which machine I run it from. Even better, with
    the FVWM window manager, I can script THAT to call my script through a simple GUI form that I can bring up with a Windows Key-J, which prompts for the backup level and volume to backup. All this with some basic scripts. It may be possible on Mac OS, I did try, but its clumsy to
    use the automator. For Windows, I don't know.

    I haven't hooked any scripts into GUIs yet. I may not be running a GUI anyway. :) One of my metter set of scripts was for a ham radio "reflector" that carries 10 channels of conversations. I got the same scripts to work out where they were called from, load a local environment, sourcing parts from the channel's audio software's config file to find things like the control port to use (nice bit of grep fu there ;) ). Ant then to manually control or query the channel, I created another script that called the control program with the correct parameters, so it talked to the correct binary. :)

    I heard many good things about OS/2, but never saw it in action for
    more than 20 minutes while a friend was raving about it and its
    excellent multitasking. DOS I had to learn myself after my grandmother

    I ran OS/2 for a few years and loved it. Its multitasking was legendary, and it was more stable than DOS/DV when multitasking, though DV was much lighter on resources, and was amazing for what it was. The real magic of OS/2 came when you loaded SIO/Vmodem and ran your BBS on it. :)

    gave me an XT clone with some floppies that she bought at a garage
    sale. Knowing only a couple of commands, I kind of "figured out" how
    to run programs, the rest came from books, magazines, friends. Having previously used a VZ200, Vic 20 and Commodore 64, typing commands was normal, but what was new was the fact you were no longer in a BASIC interpreter, and you could actually exit programs.

    I already had CP/M experience when I started using DOS PCs at university. DOS wasn't a huge change from CPm?, given that they had common roots and this was only DOS 2.x.


    ... How did you find this place?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Thursday, July 16, 2020 07:15:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Wed Jul 15 2020 12:32 pm

    That's true. I don't think it's that big of a deal though.. If you are a computer user, you'll probably always eventually upgrade or replace your current PC at some
    point. And in that way, it's very similar to consoles - A new console game might require a more powerful console, thus requiring you to buy a new console to play a g
    you might want to buy.

    It's probably a double-edged sword. I think the fact that computers can be upgraded is one of the good things about computers. If all you need is a better graphics
    card, you can usually just buy a new graphics card and put it in your PC. Although honestly, graphics cards themselves can be rather spendy, and there are game conso
    that cost about the same as just a graphics card by itself.

    If you use a PC for other things though, I think having a PC can be a good value.

    Nightfox

    I was not thinking about upgrades specifically. More about being out-of-the-box. See, if I organize a party with friends and somebody wants to play a PC game, such game
    may or may not run in the available computers. If he wants to play a PS2 game, he is guaranteed it will run as long as a PS2 is available.

    Nowadays consoles are just gelding computers so they have less appeal imo. Still, when we organize a game party, I experience more issues with peripherals and software
    compatibility with PCs.

    That said, nowadays I use computers because you can use it for things other than gaming :-) They are a better proposition of value as long as you don't try to stay on
    the top of the wave. If you try to be in the bleeding edge of gaming hardware you are in it for a lot of hardware costs.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 16, 2020 09:09:54
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 05:24 pm

    I remember being obsessed with online gaming back in '99... I even picked up Age of Empires II and played fairly competitively on The Zone (MSN's old gaming network). Haha, Encarta was great... I still recall '95 which I used on the 486. It really was a great resource prior to Wikipedia. I especially loved watching the videos contained within.

    In the 90s, my brother and I used to play real-time strategy games sometimes (Warcraft 1 & 2, Command & Conquer, Red Alert, etc.). Later I had played Age of Empires 2 with a co-worker sometimes, and then one of my nephews started to like Age of Empires 2 and I'd play some games with him.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thursday, July 16, 2020 09:11:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 09:17 pm

    TL;DR: I felt like keeping SlyEdit just in CVS would be easier to
    maintain d etc. and minimize the chance of overwriting files with old
    copies etc..

    ah, that's too bad. i want to update but dont want to hunt around for every slyedit file.

    I suppose I could make a stand-alone SlyEdit release, with just the SlyEdit-specific files (you'd just have to make sure to keep dd_lightbar_menu.js up to date in sbbs/exec/load).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Thursday, July 16, 2020 09:15:23
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Thu Jul 16 2020 07:15 am

    That said, nowadays I use computers because you can use it for things other than gaming :-) They are a better proposition of value as long as you don't try to stay on the top of the wave.

    That's one of the reasons I've often tended to play PC games since the early 90s. :) That, and it seems you can get PC games cheaper (you can at least play shareware). Console games often seem expensive, at least when the console is new. I bought a Nintendo 64 soon after they came out, and from what I remember, some of the Nintendo 64 games could cost $50 or $60 (though some were less expensive than that).

    If you try to be in the
    bleeding edge of gaming hardware you are in it for a lot of hardware costs.

    Yep, you can put in varying amounts of money into a PC, depending on what you want.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thursday, July 16, 2020 15:54:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 09:17 pm

    TL;DR: I felt like keeping SlyEdit just in CVS would be easier to
    maintain d etc. and minimize the chance of overwriting files with old
    copies etc..

    ah, that's too bad. i want to update but dont want to hunt around for every slyedit file.

    I've created a stand-alone package for the latest version of SlyEdit. On this page, you can click the "stand-alone package link" in the SlyEdit section to download it:
    http://www.digitaldistortionbbs.com/DigDistBBSStuff/DigDistBBSStuff.html

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, July 17, 2020 01:36:10
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Tue Jul 14 2020 03:02 pm

    Yes!

    I do most of my BBSing with an offline reader, MultiMail. I download
    QWK packets to my PC via FTP, then fire up a full-screen DOSBOX
    window. Once I've got a DOS prompt filling my entire screen, I run
    Multimail, TheDraw, Qedit and VDE and interact in a mostly
    distraction-free environment. I can't easily copy and paste URLs
    unless I save them to a file, so it keeps me focused on the BBS
    environment.

    Haha, quite the software setup you have there. I agree, desperate times call for desperate measures and with so many distractions at arms length (especially if you're on a PC!) you can lose hours. I've had to take my 2 iPads into the other room away from my old Macintosh BBsing machine because I unconsciosuly fired on some YouTube videos whilst trying to type up messages!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Friday, July 17, 2020 01:50:49
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 15 2020 08:29 pm

    I will eventually get a tablet when my daughter needs one for school. In the early years, they the ones at school, but later on we will be required to provide our own.

    I do wonder if in the near future, we will have difficulty maintaining our technology, because so few people understand how it works fundamentally.
    The fact that these system are "locked down" make it worse. Steve Wozniak was able to work in a time when technology was open. I have behind me in the bookshelf a technical manual on the XT system, which has schematics, detailed configuration, and pages and pages of BIOS source code in assembly. You could easily understand the details how how things worked at a fundamental level. Now?

    I think that sort of expertise will be mostly lost after the Millenial generation as using computers now in almost any context requires only the most superficial knowledge. Back in the day it was imperitive to have SOME idea of how systems functioned in order to carry out basic tasks such as, gaming, troubleshooting, productivity & even connecting online. Modern day OSes are so heavily layered that users are unable to see what lies beneath the thick veneer of usability - they'd shriek at the sight of a non-GUI.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to calcmandan on Friday, July 17, 2020 02:02:45
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: calcmandan to Andeddu on Wed Jul 15 2020 08:04 am

    I used to rely on my devices as well. Now, not so much. I've said before how I no longer own a cell phone and my tablet is used almost exclusively for flight planning/navigation.

    I spent most my typing/computing time on my workstation. I got it used from a mom&pop shop that had a stack of retired corporate systems. Got it for $80 after
    we made a deal to max the RAM and remove the HDD/Windows.

    I had a drive at home ready to use so.. I run command line linux and it fulfills
    all my needs. Even youtube.

    I have this need, or perhaps addiction, to constantly have YouTube on whenever I'm doing something - for instance, when I get up in the morning, I pop my iPhone on a small wooden stand to prop it up & fire on a video. I'll make breakfast, brush my teeth, get ready in the bathroom, etc... all whilst the video is running. Much of the time when I am driving back home from work, I'll stick on a YouTube video and stream it with the phone nestled on the centre console (listening, not watching, obviously!). In bed, the last thing I'll do before falling asleep is sticking Netflix on my phone for a half hour to relax and clear my mind. Haha, I feel like a slave to all this tech!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Friday, July 17, 2020 02:11:21
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 01:06 pm

    It is funny. I used to be a game console kid. There was only a
    computer at home which my parents used for work, and they did a
    very bad job at maintaining it. If you installed a game in it you
    could find my father formatted the computer the next day because
    he had broken it or something.

    I think the real appeal of consoles, which has already been lost,
    is that if you had the console and a few accessories, you were
    granted it would just work. You got a PlayStation game, and if you
    had a PlayStation, a controller and a memory card, the game would
    just work, period. If you had a PC game, you could discover your
    graphic card was not powerful enough, or storage was running low,
    or that in order to play you had to turn this quakity knob down...

    Nowadays, when my friends and I set a game console orgy, we always
    face problems because that simplicity has been voided. There are
    online accounts whose credentials people forget, wireless
    controllers that run out of battery, etc...


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es


    Consoles are just simplified PCs now. I have a PS4 and an XboxONE X. I no longer use the Xbox however I regularly still game on my PS4 which I've had since 2014. They are still simpler than PCs as they are almost 100% idiot proof. There are no sound drivers, graphics drivers or optional/non-optional OS updates, etc... you download a simple patch once a month and you're all set! You don't have to know anything about hardware because, like you say, it just - WORKS!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Friday, July 17, 2020 02:23:13
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Wed Jul 15 2020 12:32 pm

    That's true. I don't think it's that big of a deal though.. If you are a computer user, you'll probably always eventually upgrade or replace your current PC at some point. And in that way, it's very similar to consoles - A new console game might require a more powerful console, thus requiring you to buy a new console to play a game you might want to buy.

    It's probably a double-edged sword. I think the fact that computers can be upgraded is one of the good things about computers. If all you need is a better graphics card, you can usually just buy a new graphics card and put it in your PC. Although honestly, graphics cards themselves can be rather spendy, and there are game consoles that cost about the same as just a graphics card by itself.

    If you use a PC for other things though, I think having a PC can be a good value.

    Nightfox


    Consoles absolutely dominate PCs in relation to bang-for-buck. Let's take the Xbox Series X and the PS5 as an example: in terms of raw power, both are sitting around solid Ryzen 7 paired with an RTX2080. In terms of actual performance due to optimisaiton, I wouldn't be surprised if they matched the 2080Ti within a year. They have extremely fast SSDs which are allegedly faster than anything a PC might have & are going to be priced at the ridiculously low cost of ¤500-600. A comparable PC would cost at least 3x more! PC games on Steam are a lot cheaper though so over the span of a console generation (say 5-6 years) some of that money can be recouped.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Friday, July 17, 2020 02:30:37
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 16 2020 09:09 am

    In the 90s, my brother and I used to play real-time strategy games sometimes (Warcraft 1 & 2, Command & Conquer, Red Alert, etc.). Later I had played Age of Empires 2 with a co-worker sometimes, and then one of my nephews started to like Age of Empires 2 and I'd play some games with him.

    I played all those games to death... especially WC2 & Red Alert. There's a timeless quality to 2D isometric RTS games that the later 3D games lost. I recently picked up and played Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition online with a friend. The remastered graphics & smooth animations are a sight to behold... a very nice coming together of the old & modern. I hope more developers go back to the 2D isometric formula (with updated sprites, obviously!)

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Nightfox on Thursday, July 16, 2020 23:04:23
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 16 2020 09:09 am

    In the 90s, my brother and I used to play real-time strategy games sometimes (Warcraft 1 & 2, Command & Conquer, Red Alert, etc.). Later I had played Age of Empires 2 with a co-worker sometimes, and then one of my nephews started to like Age of Empires 2 and I'd play some games with him.

    Loved Dune 2000, C&C. Fun times.

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 16, 2020 22:17:42
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:23 am

    Consoles absolutely dominate PCs in relation to bang-for-buck. Let's take the Xbox Series X and the PS5 as an example: in terms of raw power, both are sitting around solid Ryzen 7 paired with an RTX2080. In terms of

    The bang-for-buck could probably be debated. If all you're doing is playing video games with it, then perhaps a console is a better value. But PCs can be used for a lot more than just games, so for me, I tend to see more value in a PC. I've had consoles throughout the years but still tended to play games on my PC more anyway, though the console games are definitely fun.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Thursday, July 16, 2020 21:01:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Thu Jul 16 2020 07:15 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Wed Jul 15 2020 12:32 pm

    That's true. I don't think it's that big of a deal though.. If you are point. And in that way, it's very similar to consoles - A new console ga you might want to buy.

    It's probably a double-edged sword. I think the fact that computers can card, you can usually just buy a new graphics card and put it in your PC. that cost about the same as just a graphics card by itself.

    If you use a PC for other things though, I think having a PC can be a goo

    Nightfox

    I was not thinking about upgrades specifically. More about being out-of-the- may or may not run in the available computers. If he wants to play a PS2 gam

    Nowadays consoles are just gelding computers so they have less appeal imo. S compatibility with PCs.

    That said, nowadays I use computers because you can use it for things other the top of the wave. If you try to be in the bleeding edge of gaming hardwar


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es


    From time to time I see linux distros ported to game consoles, however the community to support and create for these platofrms have little staying power and tend to move onto the next cool challenge rather than expand their use. F pr a short time I considered finding a Wii someone's kids grew out of and use it for a low power, small footprint workstation or game console emulator. The
    more I read into it, there were much better platforms to do this on.
    /

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 02:40:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:30 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 16 2020 09:09 am

    In the 90s, my brother and I used to play real-time strategy games sometimes (Warcraft 1 & 2, Command & Conquer, Red Alert, etc.). Later I had played Age of Empir
    2 with a co-worker sometimes, and then one of my nephews started to like Age of Empires 2 and I'd play some games with him.

    I played all those games to death... especially WC2 & Red Alert. There's a timeless quality to 2D isometric RTS games that the later 3D games lost. I recently picked
    and played Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition online with a friend. The remastered graphics & smooth animations are a sight to behold... a very nice coming togethe
    of the old & modern. I hope more developers go back to the 2D isometric formula (with updated sprites, obviously!)


    Blizzar has already stated they don't intend to remake the old Warcrafts, which is a pity, because Warcraft 1 needs better controls.

    I had a lot of fun with the early warcrafts. When Warcraft 3 hit, it was nice, but it was not the same. They had tackled this rpgish element on it.

    I am still beating Command and Conquer in my spare time. I beat the main game already, and now I am with the cover operations expansion.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to The Lizard Master on Friday, July 17, 2020 02:41:41
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: The Lizard Master to Nightfox on Thu Jul 16 2020 11:04 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 16 2020 09:09 am

    In the 90s, my brother and I used to play real-time strategy games sometimes (Warcraft 1 & 2, Command & Conquer, Red Alert, etc.). Later I had played Age of Empir
    2 with a co-worker sometimes, and then one of my nephews started to like Age of Empires 2 and I'd play some games with him.

    Loved Dune 2000, C&C. Fun times.

    ---TLM


    Heh, I beat the original Dune II with the Harkonen. I loved nuking people with the death hand. Also, the ending is golden.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Vk3jed on Friday, July 17, 2020 23:29:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-

    On 07-15-20 20:40, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've done that too. I have a basic backup script, that operates
    correctly depending on which machine I run it from. Even better, with
    the FVWM window manager, I can script THAT to call my script through a simple GUI form that I can bring up with a Windows Key-J, which prompts for the backup level and volume to backup. All this with some basic scripts. It may be possible on Mac OS, I did try, but its clumsy to
    use the automator. For Windows, I don't know.

    I haven't hooked any scripts into GUIs yet. I may not be running a GUI anyway. :) One of my metter set of scripts was for a ham radio "reflector" that carries 10 channels of conversations. I got the same scripts to work out where they were called from, load a local
    environment, sourcing parts from the channel's audio software's config file to find things like the control port to use (nice bit of grep fu there ;) ). Ant then to manually control or query the channel, I
    created another script that called the control program with the correct parameters, so it talked to the correct binary. :)

    I did it more just to see if I could do it. I default to using the CLI, then later remembering that I only need to press a key combination to get it working. FVWM is to the GUI what Bash/ZSH is to the CLI. It does blur the line between CLI scripts and GUI's with the way it work, as you can kind of use the same paradigms.

    I heard many good things about OS/2, but never saw it in action for
    more than 20 minutes while a friend was raving about it and its
    excellent multitasking. DOS I had to learn myself after my grandmother

    I ran OS/2 for a few years and loved it. Its multitasking was
    legendary, and it was more stable than DOS/DV when multitasking, though
    DV was much lighter on resources, and was amazing for what it was. The real magic of OS/2 came when you loaded SIO/Vmodem and ran your BBS on
    it. :)

    gave me an XT clone with some floppies that she bought at a garage
    sale. Knowing only a couple of commands, I kind of "figured out" how
    to run programs, the rest came from books, magazines, friends. Having previously used a VZ200, Vic 20 and Commodore 64, typing commands was normal, but what was new was the fact you were no longer in a BASIC interpreter, and you could actually exit programs.

    I already had CP/M experience when I started using DOS PCs at
    university. DOS wasn't a huge change from CPm?, given that they had common roots and this was only DOS 2.x.


    DOS 2.0 was the first I used, at least properly, and if you don't count the DOS built into the C64's disk drive!

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 23:38:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 15 2020 08:29 pm

    I will eventually get a tablet when my daughter needs one for school. In the early years, they the ones at school, but later on we will be required to provide our own.

    I do wonder if in the near future, we will have difficulty maintaining our technology, because so few people understand how it works fundamentally.
    The fact that these system are "locked down" make it worse. Steve Wozniak was able to work in a time when technology was open. I have behind me in the bookshelf a technical manual on the XT system, which has schematics, detailed configuration, and pages and pages of BIOS source code in assembly. You could easily understand the details how how things worked at a fundamental level. Now?

    I think that sort of expertise will be mostly lost after the Millenial generation as using computers now in almost any context requires only
    the most superficial knowledge. Back in the day it was imperitive to
    have SOME idea of how systems functioned in order to carry out basic
    tasks such as, gaming, troubleshooting, productivity & even connecting online. Modern day OSes are so heavily layered that users are unable to see what lies beneath the thick veneer of usability - they'd shriek at
    the sight of a non-GUI.

    Not just younger people but older ones too who find it far more comfortable. I personally still enjoy real-mode assembler, I've gotten back into it just for kicks, but most people dropped it, and dropped the idea that it was good to know, in favour of more complex tools.

    Jonathan Blow has a good talk on YouTube about this exact subject, its titled "Preventing the Collapse of Civilisation", but its mostly about software development. He not only makes the same argument, but also argues that software isn't that much better, its buggier, and hard to fix. And this might sound odd for anyone who lived through Windows 95, but he is kind of right. I come accross lots of niggly bugs at work. Sure, the programs don't crash, but they just often don't work correctly. And something REALLY basic, like copy and paste too. Who know how that works now.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Friday, July 17, 2020 11:24:20
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 16 2020 10:17 pm

    The bang-for-buck could probably be debated. If all you're doing is playing video games with it, then perhaps a console is a better value. But PCs can be used for a lot more than just games, so for me, I tend to see more value in a PC. I've had consoles throughout the years but still tended to play games on my PC more anyway, though the console games are definitely fun.

    Nightfox

    It's a use case scenario that's obviously down to the individual. I was specifically speaking of high end gaming PCs vs consoles. For example, my friend purchased an RTX2080 Ti last year costing him around ¤1200 & this year he upgraded his CPU to a high performance Ryzen 9 along with a new motherboard and more RAM for a further ¤1200. All that cash he's spend and he'll still be in the ballpark of a standard next-gen console costing a paltry ¤500-600.

    I purchase around 2 lower-high end PCs during a console generational cycle for around ¤1400-1500 each, recyling cash after selling the previous one. I still can't say it's better value than purchasing a net PC and a console. I suppose if you're after cutting edge, you'd be forced to buy a PC 2-3 years after a consoles been released - that way you'd be able to enjoy a noticiable graphical improvment... for instance, the 10 series Gforce cards (1060GTX and above) made a mockery out of 2013 console hardware. Things are a bit more complex now with mid-gen upgrades such as the PS4 Pro and the XboxONE X... again for a very reasonable cost, you could own a console that could out perform a lower-high end PC in 2017. If you're a AAA gamer on a budget, sticking with a console is a no-brainer.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 09:45:22
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Fri Jul 17 2020 11:24 am

    It's a use case scenario that's obviously down to the individual. I was specifically speaking of high end gaming PCs vs consoles. For example, my friend purchased an RTX2080 Ti last year costing him around ¤1200 & this year he upgraded his CPU to a high performance Ryzen 9 along with a new motherboard and more RAM for a further ¤1200. All that cash he's spend and he'll still be in the ballpark of a standard next-gen console costing a paltry ¤500-600.

    Yep. It seems your currency symbol might not be coming through for me, so I don't know what currency that is - but last year I built a new PC and opted to get an Nvidia RTX 2070 Super, which was about $580US. I've done some gaming on it (as I enjoy PC gaming), but I've actually been using the GPU for some general computing tasks - I have some photo & video editing software that makes use of the GPU, and I've had my PC run some distributed computing projects (with BOINC) that make use of the GPU.

    But it does seem a bit crazy how much graphics cards cost. I didn't get the 2080 because those cost so much more.. And the RTX 2070 is already the most expensive video card I've ever bought.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 07:38:00
    Andeddu wrote to calcmandan <=-

    I have this need, or perhaps addiction, to constantly have YouTube on whenever I'm doing something - for instance, when I get up in the
    morning, I pop my iPhone on a small wooden stand to prop it up & fire
    on a video. I'll make breakfast, brush my teeth, get ready in the bathroom, etc... all whilst the video is running. Much of the time when
    I am driving back home from work, I'll stick on a YouTube video and
    stream it with the phone nestled on the centre console (listening, not watching, obviously!). In bed, the last thing I'll do before falling asleep is sticking Netflix on my phone for a half hour to relax and

    /snip

    clear my mind. Haha, I feel like a slave to all this tech!

    You may want to meditate on that. Just sayin.

    Daniel Traechin
    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 17, 2020 18:07:15
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Jul 16 2020 09:11 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 09:17 pm

    TL;DR: I felt like keeping SlyEdit just in CVS would be easier to
    maintain d etc. and minimize the chance of overwriting files with old
    copies etc..

    ah, that's too bad. i want to update but dont want to hunt around for every slyedit file.

    I suppose I could make a stand-alone SlyEdit release, with just the SlyEdit-specific files (you'd just have to make sure to keep dd_lightbar_menu.js up to date in sbbs/exec/load).


    if i were you i'd make a script that touches the files,sends the current files to the cvs and then puts a recent archive on your web for download.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 17, 2020 18:50:16
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Jul 16 2020 03:54 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 09:17 pm

    TL;DR: I felt like keeping SlyEdit just in CVS would be easier to
    maintain d etc. and minimize the chance of overwriting files with old
    copies etc..

    ah, that's too bad. i want to update but dont want to hunt around
    for every slyedit file.

    I've created a stand-alone package for the latest version of SlyEdit. On this page, you can click the "stand-alone package link" in the SlyEdit section to download it: http://www.digitaldistortionbbs.com/DigDistBBSStuff/DigDistBBSStuff.html

    Nightfox


    okay it's not translating the \1X color codes.
    any idea what i can do about that?
    i'm running 3.17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 18:53:05
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Fri Jul 17 2020 01:50 am


    I think that sort of expertise will be mostly lost after the Millenial generation as using computers now in almost any context requires only the most superficial knowledge. Back in the day it was imperitive to have SOME idea of how systems functioned in order to carry out basic tasks such as, gaming, troubleshooting, productivity & even connecting online. Modern day


    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    he knows nothing about everything.
    i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10, he was playing bbs doorgames with my users. i was teaching him simple linux scripting.

    now it's all gone.
    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so they dont become enthusiasts.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 15:26:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Fri Jul 17 2020 01:50 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 15 2020 08:29 pm

    I will eventually get a tablet when my daughter needs one for school. In the early years, they the ones at school, but later on we will be require to provide our own.

    I do wonder if in the near future, we will have difficulty maintaining ou technology, because so few people understand how it works fundamentally. The fact that these system are "locked down" make it worse. Steve Woznia was able to work in a time when technology was open. I have behind me in the bookshelf a technical manual on the XT system, which has schematics, detailed configuration, and pages and pages of BIOS source code in assemb You could easily understand the details how how things worked at a fundamental level. Now?

    I think that sort of expertise will be mostly lost after the Millenial generation as using computers now in almost any context requires only the mo superficial knowledge. Back in the day it was imperitive to have SOME idea o how systems functioned in order to carry out basic tasks such as, gaming, troubleshooting, productivity & even connecting online. Modern day OSes are heavily layered that users are unable to see what lies beneath the thick ven of usability - they'd shriek at the sight of a non-GUI.


    Also consider the level of complexity has also increased, especially when it comes to scale of integrated components. Entire boards or systems can be recreated or emulated with an FPGA or the functions can be placed on an
    Arduino shield or Pi hat with room to spare. Circuit board design software makes prototyping boards way easier, as is having multi-layered boards made. By itself having custom made boards whipped out in a week or two makes it
    hard to justify open source boards that may comply to a standard you may not agree with.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 15:32:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:11 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 01:06 pm

    It is funny. I used to be a game console kid. There was only a
    computer at home which my parents used for work, and they did a
    very bad job at maintaining it. If you installed a game in it you
    could find my father formatted the computer the next day because
    he had broken it or something.

    I think the real appeal of consoles, which has already been lost,
    is that if you had the console and a few accessories, you were
    granted it would just work. You got a PlayStation game, and if you
    had a PlayStation, a controller and a memory card, the game would
    just work, period. If you had a PC game, you could discover your
    graphic card was not powerful enough, or storage was running low,
    or that in order to play you had to turn this quakity knob down...

    Nowadays, when my friends and I set a game console orgy, we always
    face problems because that simplicity has been voided. There are
    online accounts whose credentials people forget, wireless
    controllers that run out of battery, etc...


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es


    Consoles are just simplified PCs now. I have a PS4 and an XboxONE X. I no longer use the Xbox however I regularly still game on my PS4 which I've had since 2014. They are still simpler than PCs as they are almost 100% idiot proof. There are no sound drivers, graphics drivers or optional/non-optional updates, etc... you download a simple patch once a month and you're all set! You don't have to know anything about hardware because, like you say, it jus WORKS!


    With consoles, there is no "arms race" where everybody is trying to outdo
    each other by building a machine with more cores, more memory, or a more powerful graphics card. In a way it's like IROC is to other stock car racing. The only advantages are within the player, granted bandwith is the same.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 15:39:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:23 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Wed Jul 15 2020 12:32 pm

    That's true. I don't think it's that big of a deal though.. If you are computer user, you'll probably always eventually upgrade or replace your current PC at some point. And in that way, it's very similar to consoles A new console game might require a more powerful console, thus requiring to buy a new console to play a game you might want to buy.

    It's probably a double-edged sword. I think the fact that computers can upgraded is one of the good things about computers. If all you need is a better graphics card, you can usually just buy a new graphics card and pu it in your PC. Although honestly, graphics cards themselves can be rathe spendy, and there are game consoles that cost about the same as just a graphics card by itself.

    If you use a PC for other things though, I think having a PC can be a goo value.

    Nightfox


    Consoles absolutely dominate PCs in relation to bang-for-buck. Let's take th Xbox Series X and the PS5 as an example: in terms of raw power, both are sitting around solid Ryzen 7 paired with an RTX2080. In terms of actual performance due to optimisaiton, I wouldn't be surprised if they matched the 2080Ti within a year. They have extremely fast SSDs which are allegedly fast than anything a PC might have & are going to be priced at the ridiculously l cost of ¤500-600. A comparable PC would cost at least 3x more! PC games on Steam are a lot cheaper though so over the span of a console generation (say 5-6 years) some of that money can be recouped.


    PC gaming has an advantage when it comes to gaming mods and player made downloadable content. I'll use Counterstrike as a great example. Halflife
    had a great number of development tools created for it, allowing for gameplay outside what the developers created, or creating new games by themselves.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Friday, July 17, 2020 21:16:00
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Friday 17.07.20 - 19:53, mro wrote to Andeddu:

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    Outch.. removing the pw is a pretty bad solution. But.. it sounds like
    he's a pragmatist.

    I know people who's login passwords are <their first name>+123 or a minor variation of that. These same people use the same password for
    everything.


    he knows nothing about everything. i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10, he was playing bbs doorgames with my
    users. i was teaching him simple linux scripting. now it's all gone.

    Things "computer" are not for everyone.

    I taught my mom basic computer ops on an XT (with WordPerfect, Quickbooks, and a few games) and she warmed up to it quite nicely. Then I had her
    move to an OS/2 Win-OS/2 environment + echomail, and she loved it. Finally
    we moved to a plain WinXP. She adapted through all those changes.


    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so
    they dont become enthusiasts.

    Most of it is mindless crap such as TicToc, and short video chats. :(

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Saturday, July 18, 2020 02:45:08
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:40 am

    Blizzar has already stated they don't intend to remake the old Warcrafts, which is a pity, because Warcraft 1 needs better controls.

    I had a lot of fun with the early warcrafts. When Warcraft 3 hit, it was nice, but it was not the same. They had tackled this rpgish element on it.

    I am still beating Command and Conquer in my spare time. I beat the main game already, and now I am with the cover operations expansion.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    I think Warcraft 1&2 would be ripe for a remake. A real 2D facelift, similar to AoE 1&2. I definitely played the first one but I don't think it left much of an imprint on me compared to the 2nd one which was the best in the series. A non-3D Command & Conquer would be amazing too. I think RTS titles just looked better when in 2D... even the newer Total War games or even stylised RTSes like Starcraft II don't have the character of the 2D ones.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 23:57:26
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:30 am

    I played all those games to death... especially WC2 & Red Alert. There's a timeless quality to 2D isometric RTS games that the later 3D games lost. I recently picked up and played Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition online with a friend. The remastered graphics & smooth animations are a sight to behold... a very nice coming together of the old & modern. I hope more developers go back to the 2D isometric formula (with updated sprites, obviously!)

    Uniwar is kind of close for a turnbased RTS.

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Arelor on Friday, July 17, 2020 23:58:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to The Lizard Master on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:41 am

    Loved Dune 2000, C&C. Fun times.

    ---TLM


    Heh, I beat the original Dune II with the Harkonen. I loved nuking people with the death hand. Also, the ending is golden.

    Ever try Dune 2000? Basically RTS networked version of Dune II with updated graphics. Loved it!

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Friday, July 17, 2020 23:44:54
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Fri Jul 17 2020 09:16 pm

    Hello MRO!

    ** On Friday 17.07.20 - 19:53, mro wrote to Andeddu:

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    Outch.. removing the pw is a pretty bad solution. But.. it sounds like he's a pragmatist.


    well now that i think about it, he had problems with his router at his mom's house and someone told him to reset it. and that fixed it. BUT... you gotta put a new pw in and he never thought of that.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, July 17, 2020 23:30:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:50 pm

    okay it's not translating the \1X color codes.
    any idea what i can do about that?
    i'm running 3.17

    I don't think it ever did translate the \1 color codes.. I'll have to double check. Maybe it did at some point and one of the updates I made broke it. All of my SlyEdit color configuration files still have the control character rather than the \1 though (and they always did)..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Saturday, July 18, 2020 02:44:47
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Jul 17 2020 11:30 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:50 pm

    okay it's not translating the \1X color codes.
    any idea what i can do about that?
    i'm running 3.17

    I don't think it ever did translate the \1 color codes.. I'll have to double check. Maybe it did at some point and one of the updates I made broke it. All of my SlyEdit color configuration files still have the control character rather than the \1 though (and they always did)..


    i dont think you understand. the entire interface has \1 codes instead of the regular interface i'm used to. it's a bunch of \1 code mess
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Saturday, July 18, 2020 03:28:51
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 11:38 pm

    Not just younger people but older ones too who find it far more comfortable. I personally still enjoy real-mode assembler, I've gotten back into it just for kicks, but most people dropped it, and dropped the idea that it was good to know, in favour of more complex tools.

    Jonathan Blow has a good talk on YouTube about this exact subject, its titled "Preventing the Collapse of Civilisation", but its mostly about software development. He not only makes the same argument, but also argues that software isn't that much better, its buggier, and hard to fix. And this might sound odd for anyone who lived through Windows 95, but he is kind of right. I come accross lots of niggly bugs at work. Sure, the programs don't crash, but they just often don't work correctly. And something REALLY basic, like copy and paste too. Who know how that works now.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I can relate to that also. I feel as though Microsoft hit its zenith with Windows 7 in recent times, everything that has come after has been sorely dissapointing. I also had a trying time preventing Windows 10 from carrying out forced system and driver updates. It's as if they're systematically removing control from the user, as if they don't trust us or something and need babied throughout the whole process.

    I guess underneath all this newfangled graphical layering, remenants of the old code still linger & occasionally conflict with the updates.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, July 18, 2020 03:40:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 09:45 am

    Yep. It seems your currency symbol might not be coming through for me, so I don't know what currency that is - but last year I built a new PC and opted to get an Nvidia RTX 2070 Super, which was about $580US. I've done some gaming on it (as I enjoy PC gaming), but I've actually been using the GPU for some general computing tasks - I have some photo & video editing software that makes use of the GPU, and I've had my PC run some distributed computing projects (with BOINC) that make use of the GPU.

    But it does seem a bit crazy how much graphics cards cost. I didn't get the 2080 because those cost so much more.. And the RTX 2070 is already the most expensive video card I've ever bought.

    Nightfox


    Must be an issue with my old '84 M0100 keyboard, haha. I was using the dollar symbol but actually meant pounds. I think the 2070 Super is the sweet spot for graphics card, kind of what the 1070GTX was back in '16. The Ti cost twice as much in '18 but didn't represent anywhere near that graphical jump.

    PC graphics cards are disproportionately expensive when compared to consoles but I guess that's the price you pay for being on a more versatile & open platform. I did forget to mention too that Sony and Microsoft charge around 50 pounds/dollars per you just for the privilage of playing your games online. It all adds up hence the cheaper initial outlay.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Saturday, July 18, 2020 21:34:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 11:38 pm

    Not just younger people but older ones too who find it far more comfortable. I personally still enjoy real-mode assembler, I've gotten back into it just for kicks, but most people dropped it, and dropped the idea that it was good to know, in favour of more complex tools.

    Jonathan Blow has a good talk on YouTube about this exact subject, its titled "Preventing the Collapse of Civilisation", but its mostly about software development. He not only makes the same argument, but also argues that software isn't that much better, its buggier, and hard to fix. And this might sound odd for anyone who lived through Windows 95, but he is kind of right. I come accross lots of niggly bugs at work. Sure, the programs don't crash, but they just often don't work correctly. And something REALLY basic, like copy and paste too. Who know how that works now.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I can relate to that also. I feel as though Microsoft hit its zenith
    with Windows 7 in recent times, everything that has come after has been sorely dissapointing. I also had a trying time preventing Windows 10
    from carrying out forced system and driver updates. It's as if they're systematically removing control from the user, as if they don't trust
    us or something and need babied throughout the whole process.

    I guess underneath all this newfangled graphical layering, remenants of the old code still linger & occasionally conflict with the updates.

    They are removing control from the user partly because they want control over the experience, and can't stand the thought of users not being up to day, and partly because users don't mine being controlled.

    One thing windows does do well, is backwards compatibility, but I don't see this as the reason for the forced updates.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Baguette@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Saturday, July 18, 2020 03:09:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:53 pm

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    he knows nothing about everything.
    i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10, he w playing bbs doorgames with my users. i was teaching him simple linux scripting.

    now it's all gone.
    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so they dont become enthusiasts.

    If it makes you feel any better, I'm 18 and I'm trying to teach myself about all this shit. Want to do it for a living, even. Not gonna pretend to know anything extraordinary, but I'm trying, at least.

    ===============================
    baguette@sdf.org
    https://hbaguette.neocities.org


    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Saturday, July 18, 2020 06:07:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Sat Jul 18 2020 02:45 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:40 am

    Blizzar has already stated they don't intend to remake the old Warcrafts, which is a pity, because Warcraft 1 needs bette
    controls.

    I had a lot of fun with the early warcrafts. When Warcraft 3 hit, it was nice, but it was not the same. They had tackled
    this rpgish element on it.

    I am still beating Command and Conquer in my spare time. I beat the main game already, and now I am with the cover
    operations expansion.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    I think Warcraft 1&2 would be ripe for a remake. A real 2D facelift, similar to AoE 1&2. I definitely played the first one b
    I don't think it left much of an imprint on me compared to the 2nd one which was the best in the series. A non-3D Command &
    Conquer would be amazing too. I think RTS titles just looked better when in 2D... even the newer Total War games or even
    stylised RTSes like Starcraft II don't have the character of the 2D ones.


    I prety much agree with this. I much prefer 2D graphics for real time strategy. I just don't see the point of 3D for the genre.
    It reminds me of this Spanish social media in which they tried to make its interface looki like a 3D action game. You were
    supposed to move your character in the screen and talk to people that way. It crashed hard.

    What made Warcraft 2 for me was the mussic. Glenn Stafford made some of the best videogame music I have heard. Too bad they
    didn't get him for Warcraft 3 and only included a few spares for Warcraft 3's expansion.

    I really enjoyed Warcraft 1, but its gameplay was a bit orthopedic. Warcraft 2 was the same with better graphics and better
    controls. And a plot different than "Go here and kill."

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to The Lizard Master on Saturday, July 18, 2020 06:09:08
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: The Lizard Master to Arelor on Fri Jul 17 2020 11:58 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to The Lizard Master on Fri Jul 17 2020 02:41 am

    Loved Dune 2000, C&C. Fun times.

    ---TLM


    Heh, I beat the original Dune II with the Harkonen. I loved nuking people with the death hand. Also, the ending is golden

    Ever try Dune 2000? Basically RTS networked version of Dune II with updated graphics. Loved it!

    ---TLM


    No, I haven't.

    Nowadays, if it does not run on a game console, a game console emulator, OpenBSD native, Linux Native or DOS, I don't run it. I
    don't see myself installing Windows in a game computer just for playing.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Saturday, July 18, 2020 08:51:45
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 18 2020 02:44 am

    okay it's not translating the \1X color codes.
    any idea what i can do about that?
    i'm running 3.17

    I don't think it ever did translate the \1 color codes.. I'll have
    to double check. Maybe it did at some point and one of the updates
    I made broke it. All of my SlyEdit color configuration files still
    have the control character rather than the \1 though (and they
    always did)..

    i dont think you understand. the entire interface has \1 codes instead of the regular interface i'm used to. it's a bunch of \1 code mess

    Can you show me a screenshot? Because if I understand you correctly, I've never seen SlyEdit do that. And this is the first time I've heard about this issue from anyone.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to MRO on Saturday, July 18, 2020 12:26:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:53 pm

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10, he now it's all gone.
    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so they dont become enthusiasts.

    That's too bad. I'm still blown away by computers. I'm amazed whenever I turn one on. I'm even more amazed how fast it took to go from my C64 to my android phone. I wish tech would slow down because I think we have some serious problems ahead. China is going to be a problem for the US within the next 10 years or so. If I was younger I'd jump on a career in security. If your son missed the boat with computers what is he doing? What career path has he chosen? If any.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Arelor on Saturday, July 18, 2020 16:26:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to The Lizard Master on Sat Jul 18 2020 06:09 am

    Ever try Dune 2000? Basically RTS networked version of Dune II with updated graphics. Loved it!

    ---TLM


    No, I haven't.

    Nowadays, if it does not run on a game console, a game console emulator, OpenBSD native, Linux Native or DOS, I don't run it. I don't see myself installing Windows in a game computer just for playing.

    It was released for consoles too, but I just don't see how much fun it would be to try and do that with an RTS like that.

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Saturday, July 18, 2020 20:06:18
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Jul 18 2020 08:51 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 18 2020 02:44 am

    okay it's not translating the \1X color codes.
    any idea what i can do about that?
    i'm running 3.17

    I don't think it ever did translate the \1 color codes.. I'll have
    to double check. Maybe it did at some point and one of the updates
    I made broke it. All of my SlyEdit color configuration files still
    have the control character rather than the \1 though (and they
    always did)..

    i dont think you understand. the entire interface has \1 codes
    instead of the regular interface i'm used to. it's a bunch of \1
    code mess

    Can you show me a screenshot? Because if I understand you correctly, I've never seen SlyEdit do that. And this is the first time I've heard about this issue from anyone.


    https://i.imgur.com/bvP7Oxg.png
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to HusTler on Saturday, July 18, 2020 20:07:31
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: HusTler to MRO on Sat Jul 18 2020 12:26 pm

    serious problems ahead. China is going to be a problem for the US within the next 10 years or so. If I was younger I'd jump on a career in security. If your son missed the boat with computers what is he doing? What career path has he chosen? If any.


    he makes decent money working at rustoleum
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 07:46:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    I think that sort of expertise will be mostly lost after the Millenial generation as using computers now in almost any context requires only
    the most superficial knowledge.

    The Computer History Museum has a working IBM 1401 in their facility;
    it was lovingly transported from someone's garage (where it had been
    running billing reports for a small company) and restored by IBM
    retirees.

    They fired it up during the Vintage Computer Fair last year, and did
    a presentation showing how you'd write your code longhand, give it to
    a person who entered the code into a punch card deck, and ran the
    program.

    My son saw the cardboard cutouts of people in white shirts and skinny
    ties, and realized how different it was that it took 6-8 people to
    run the thing.

    They made an offer for any kids who wanted to learn more, they had
    office hours and wanted to teach the next generation of technologists
    how to run these old systems. If I were a 14 year old kid with a
    bike, I'd jump at the chance!

    Hell, if I weren't 70 miles away, I'd do it now.

    Back in the day it was imperitive to
    have SOME idea of how systems functioned in order to carry out basic
    tasks such as, gaming, troubleshooting, productivity & even connecting online. Modern day OSes are so heavily layered that users are unable to see what lies beneath the thick veneer of usability - they'd shriek at
    the sight of a non-GUI.

    And in the BBS Documentary, some of the old timers complained that
    when you didn't have to write your own BBS from scratch, you didn't
    have a real understanding or appreciation of what's going on
    underneath...



    ---
    Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC,
    PPC and PCW!

    ... Listen in total darkness, very quietly
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Friday, July 17, 2020 07:48:00
    Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Consoles absolutely dominate PCs in relation to bang-for-buck.

    They're designed as loss-leaders. Lose money on the hardware, make
    money on the recurring subscription revenue.


    ... Listen in total darkness, very quietly
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dennisk on Friday, July 17, 2020 07:52:00
    Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've done that too. I have a basic backup script, that operates
    correctly depending on which machine I run it from.

    I miss my script! I've never been that great at scripting, but when I
    was consulting I made a little script that cobbled together a name of
    the folder with the date, and did a compressed tar archive to a tape
    device designated by an environmental variable or to my laptop. That
    came in handy when needing a quick backup before making system
    changes.




    ... Listen in total darkness, very quietly
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dennisk on Saturday, July 18, 2020 09:26:00
    Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    One thing windows does do well, is backwards compatibility, but I don't see this as the reason for the forced updates.

    Backwards compatibility costs money. If you force everyone to be on
    the same track of Windows 10, you don't need to support as many
    versions.



    ... Look at the order in which you do things
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Saturday, July 18, 2020 09:27:00
    Arelor wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I prety much agree with this. I much prefer 2D graphics for real time strategy. I just don't see the point of 3D for the genre. It reminds me
    of this Spanish social media in which they tried to make its interface looki like a 3D action game.

    Why does that remind me of someone who glued the UNIX kill command to
    DOOM? You'd see a room with a bunch of imps dancing around, with a
    process ID and process name. Shoot the imp, kill the process.




    ... Look at the order in which you do things
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, July 19, 2020 14:38:00
    On 07-17-20 07:46, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Andeddu <=-

    And in the BBS Documentary, some of the old timers complained that
    when you didn't have to write your own BBS from scratch, you didn't
    have a real understanding or appreciation of what's going on
    underneath...

    It's a bit like the old hams who insist you must have built a radio from scratch, learnt to send and receive Morse by hand/ear, or whatever else was important back in the day.

    To me, as far as BBSing goes, what's important for a sysop is to understand the basics of how the bits work together - messages, files, polling, addressing, etc. And a working knowledge of scripting for your chosen platform is a must as well, whether that be Bash scripts on Linux, .BAT files on Windows or something else on whatever you're running. Finally, communication basics, which this days usually means IP (v4 and/or v6), networking basics, TCP, ports, routing and NAT, etc. And if you're planning on running a dialup modem, all the old serial comms stuff, modem AT commands, and telephony (including VoIP issues nowadays).

    Nothing low level programmer stuff, just the essentials, so you can fix things if they break. :)

    And if you choose to run a GUI, that's up to you. My personal preference is not to run a GUI on systems performing server functions (which is what a BBS really is), but if you prefer to run a GUI, no biggie for me. A GUI can sometimes present information better, if you have a monitor attached, and may have more convenient controls.


    ... Please don't ask me what the score is. I'm not even sure what the game is. --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, July 19, 2020 14:40:00
    On 07-17-20 07:52, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dennisk <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've done that too. I have a basic backup script, that operates
    correctly depending on which machine I run it from.

    I miss my script! I've never been that great at scripting, but when I
    was consulting I made a little script that cobbled together a name of
    the folder with the date, and did a compressed tar archive to a tape
    device designated by an environmental variable or to my laptop. That
    came in handy when needing a quick backup before making system
    changes.

    I've become better at scripting with practice, and I'm still learning. I like scripts that can handle a lot of the little details automatically, like setting the date in the filename, etc. The more automation, the better. :)


    ... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, July 19, 2020 16:15:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    One thing windows does do well, is backwards compatibility, but I don't see this as the reason for the forced updates.

    Backwards compatibility costs money. If you force everyone to be on
    the same track of Windows 10, you don't need to support as many
    versions.

    Yes, but then you can't run software you want to run. That is one thing I think Windows does to better than Linux. Your OS is there to run your programs, and if it fails, it is a deficiency of the OS.

    It is really important for Microsoft, that when people move to the latest Windows, that it still runs the applications they need. You don't want to have a business with 100 computers, and find that the next update to Windows means that the custom software you built will not longer run.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Saturday, July 18, 2020 23:40:20
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 07:48 am

    Consoles absolutely dominate PCs in relation to bang-for-buck.

    They're designed as loss-leaders. Lose money on the hardware, make
    money on the recurring subscription revenue.

    That model always annoyed me. It's like how inkjet printers can be inexpensive, but the ink cartridges are very expensive.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Saturday, July 18, 2020 23:41:16
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Sat Jul 18 2020 09:27 am

    Why does that remind me of someone who glued the UNIX kill command to DOOM? You'd see a room with a bunch of imps dancing around, with a
    process ID and process name. Shoot the imp, kill the process.

    Jurassic Park: "This is UNIX. I know this..."

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to The Lizard Master on Sunday, July 19, 2020 09:08:03
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: The Lizard Master to Arelor on Sat Jul 18 2020 04:26 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to The Lizard Master on Sat Jul 18 2020 06:09 am

    Ever try Dune 2000? Basically RTS networked version of Dune II with updated graphics. Loved it!

    ---TLM


    No, I haven't.

    Nowadays, if it does not run on a game console, a game console emulator, OpenBSD native, Linux Native or DOS, I don't run
    it. I don't see myself installing Windows in a game computer just for playing.

    It was released for consoles too, but I just don't see how much fun it would be to try and do that with an RTS like that.

    ---TLM


    Argh, point and click games suck in consoles. There was a mouse system for PSX but I don't think it ever became popular.

    I made the mistake of buying Comandos 2 for the playstation. At 3 bucks, it didn't look like a very bad option. The game
    suuuucked hard.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:55:00
    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    preference is not to run a GUI on systems performing server functions (which is what a BBS really is), but if you prefer to run a GUI, no
    biggie for me. A GUI can sometimes present information better, if you have a monitor attached, and may have more convenient controls.

    My favorite server environment is just enough GUI to run a couple of
    xterms tailing log files. twm, for example.



    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Sunday, July 19, 2020 08:02:00
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    They're designed as loss-leaders. Lose money on the hardware, make
    money on the recurring subscription revenue.

    That model always annoyed me. It's like how inkjet printers can be inexpensive, but the ink cartridges are very expensive.

    I lived in San Francisco for years, and contributed to the "leave
    useful stuff you no longer need on the curb" culture in big cities. I
    guess I built up some karma points, because I found a Canon inkjet MFP
    with a free sign on it. It jammed, and upon looking closer at it
    realized that a highlighter had fallen down the output feeder. It
    worked fine once I got the highlighter out, and hey - free
    highlighter!

    It's got a 50 sheet ADF, higher resolution scanning that my older MFP,
    cloud print, and a better screen - and the ink is $12 for a pack on
    Amazon - it's good for a ton of pages, and there are separate color
    ink tanks (and a separate black tank for doing black and white)

    It's the first time I've been able to print to an inkjet without
    worrying about ink.



    ... Use an old idea
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Arelor on Sunday, July 19, 2020 15:22:07
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to The Lizard Master on Sun Jul 19 2020 09:08 am

    It was released for consoles too, but I just don't see how much fun it would be to try and do that with an RTS like that.

    ---TLM


    Argh, point and click games suck in consoles. There was a mouse system for PSX but I don't think it ever became popular.

    I made the mistake of buying Comandos 2 for the playstation. At 3 bucks, it didn't look like a very bad option. The game suuuucked hard.

    I have a foggy memory of buying one of those games for console, playing for 30 seconds and thinking "yeah, I'm an idiot for thinking this would work."

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to calcmandan on Monday, July 20, 2020 02:03:11
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: calcmandan to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 07:38 am

    You may want to meditate on that. Just sayin.

    Daniel Traechin
    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world

    Haha, I don't have much free time these days so I guess I have become extremely efficient in my YouTube consumption. No matter what menial task I am doing at home, I seem to be carting around a phone or iPad which is streaming something of interest.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Monday, July 20, 2020 02:15:58
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:53 pm

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    he knows nothing about everything.
    i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10, he was playing bbs doorgames with my users. i was teaching him simple linux scripting.

    now it's all gone.
    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so they dont become enthusiasts.

    I can understand how kids don't become enthusiasts about basics of computer technology. If you were born in the 80s or prior, you would have observed the evolution of technology from simple tape based game such as "Bruce Lee" on the ZX Spectrum all the way to Crysis & then to titles that still blow me away today such as Red Dead Redemption 2. The 90s kids skipped all this early tech therefore have no nostalgic interest in it. For instance, I have no interest in systems that came out in the 60s and 70s or the operating systems they ran on along with formats such as the old IBM punch cards. I guess your boy is more interested in things that happened in the mid-2000s as that would be nostalgic for him. Then agian, it sounds like he has no interest in computers at all!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Monday, July 20, 2020 02:25:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 03:39 pm

    PC gaming has an advantage when it comes to gaming mods and player made downloadable content. I'll use Counterstrike as a great example. Halflife had a great number of development tools created for it, allowing for gameplay outside what the developers created, or creating new games by themselves.

    Absolutely. Some of my favourate games derived from mods. DOTA, the WC3 mod, spawned LoL - perhaps the most popualar competitive game ever made, though it's hardly my cup of tea. I don't mind the close system nature of consoles, but you've got a good point, insofar that you can gain a greater amount of longievity in certain titles on the PC through the modding community than you would on a console.

    I see Blizzard & Bethesda are trying to monetize the modding community by chjarging their playerbase for the privilage of using mods & also forcing creators to sign disclaimers allowing all mods, specifically the profitable ones, to be signed over & owned by the developer/platform holder.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Monday, July 20, 2020 02:36:37
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sat Jul 18 2020 09:34 pm

    They are removing control from the user partly because they want control over the experience, and can't stand the thought of users not being up to day, and partly because users don't mine being controlled.

    One thing windows does do well, is backwards compatibility, but I don't see this as the reason for the forced updates.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I don't mind it a great deal tbh, it just grated me at the time because I had an ASUS ROG gaming laptop with a slightly dodgy 980GTX which was running on an earlier stable driver that Windows INSISTED on updating to a more up-to-date less stable driver. I found it more befitting of Apple's closed OSes that constantly force updates on their users... hence why I am not much of a fan of Windows 10!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Monday, July 20, 2020 02:43:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sat Jul 18 2020 06:07 am

    I prety much agree with this. I much prefer 2D graphics for real time strategy. I just don't see the point of 3D for the genre.
    It reminds me of this Spanish social media in which they tried to make its interface looki like a 3D action game. You were
    supposed to move your character in the screen and talk to people that way. It crashed hard.

    Even though 3D graphics is amazing now, where things look close to lifelike, there's still an issue with RTS games. I don't think the CPU/GPU horse-power is there as yet to render large scale battles with high quality well animated units. Perhaps it'll come soon though. I am looking forward to Age of Empires 4 however it's rendered in 3D unike the recent Definitive Editions of the earlier games. Such a shame, either way, I hope it's good!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, July 20, 2020 02:56:22
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 07:48 am

    They're designed as loss-leaders. Lose money on the hardware, make
    money on the recurring subscription revenue.

    Although the barrier to entry is fairly inexpensive, they do make a lot of revenue from game sales, internet subscriptions, peripherals, their own eShops & streaming services, etc... I guess they're quite happy to lose a few dollars on the hardware in order to hook the playerbase. It's an effective business model.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Monday, July 20, 2020 03:03:35
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to The Lizard Master on Sun Jul 19 2020 09:08 am

    It was released for consoles too, but I just don't see how much fun it would be to try and do that with an RTS like that.

    ---TLM


    Argh, point and click games suck in consoles. There was a mouse system for PSX but I don't think it ever became popular.

    I made the mistake of buying Comandos 2 for the playstation. At 3 bucks, it didn't look like a very bad option. The game
    suuuucked hard.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    Terrible idea to play an RTS or city builder type game on a console, you ABSOLUTELY need a mouse! I played Surviving Mars which is a city builder on the XboxONE X and, although it looked very pretty on my 55" 4K TV, the controls were ghastly - everything, even the simple tasks felt like chores, the game became laborious. I bought the game again on a Steam sale and it was an absolute joy to play. What a difference a suitable input makes!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, July 20, 2020 20:11:00
    On 07-19-20 07:55, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    My favorite server environment is just enough GUI to run a couple of xterms tailing log files. twm, for example.

    Yes, I can see the advantage of that sort of setup.


    ... I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me. --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 21:46:00
    Andeddu wrote to MRO <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:53 pm

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    he knows nothing about everything.
    i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10, he was playing bbs doorgames with my users. i was teaching him simple linux scripting.

    now it's all gone.
    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so they dont become enthusiasts.

    I can understand how kids don't become enthusiasts about basics of computer technology. If you were born in the 80s or prior, you would
    have observed the evolution of technology from simple tape based game
    such as "Bruce Lee" on the ZX Spectrum all the way to Crysis & then to titles that still blow me away today such as Red Dead Redemption 2. The 90s kids skipped all this early tech therefore have no nostalgic
    interest in it. For instance, I have no interest in systems that came
    out in the 60s and 70s or the operating systems they ran on along with formats such as the old IBM punch cards. I guess your boy is more interested in things that happened in the mid-2000s as that would be nostalgic for him. Then agian, it sounds like he has no interest in computers at all!

    I wouldn't mind trying or even owning some of the systems from the 70s, something like the Commodore PET or Wang 2200 but anything earlier is too cumbersome to use it seems. Old CRT screens delight me.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Monday, July 20, 2020 08:37:00
    Hello Dennisk!

    ** On Monday 20.07.20 - 22:46, dennisk wrote to Andeddu:

    I wouldn't mind trying or even owning some of the systems from the 70s, something like the Commodore PET or Wang 2200 but anything earlier is
    too cumbersome to use it seems. Old CRT screens delight me.

    At one point I had 10 crt screens ranging from 14" to 22". Took them to
    the landfill/recycle in one trip about 15 years ago.

    The 22" simply occupied too much room, was very heavy, and generated quite
    a bit of heat. But Ubuntu sure looked really nice on that thing. A couple
    of screenshots here: http://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/linux/

    I still have a 36" TV console parked in an outdoor shed. It has a rather
    nice wood cabinet. It's a rather large monster and difficult for one
    person to move, but I got it down a flight of stairs and outside the house all by myself. The stereo sound subsystem was actually quite good. But
    the darn thing really consumed far too much wattage. The moment it was replaced with an LED TV, the hydro bill took a fast dip.

    I still have a perfectly fine 15" CRT gathering dust. Haven't had the
    heart to surrender it to the dump yet. Want it?

    The one other CRT-based machine I'm still hanging on to is a rather funky iMac G3 w/translucent blue case - in the off chance that I will have a
    proper spot and time to play with it again.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 07:25:00
    Andeddu wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world

    You may want to meditate on that. Just sayin.

    Haha, I don't have much free time these days so I guess I have
    become extremely efficient in my YouTube consumption. No matter
    what menial task I am doing at home, I seem to be carting around
    a phone or iPad which is streaming something of interest.

    Have you ever considered that you might have more free time if you
    *WEREN'T* carting around a phone/iPad which is streaming
    something?

    There's more to life than YouTube. Put the devices down for a
    while and try to experience it.



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 11:32:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Mon Jul 20 2020 02:15 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:53 pm

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    he knows nothing about everything.
    i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10, h was playing bbs doorgames with my users. i was teaching him simple linux scripting.

    now it's all gone.
    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so they dont become enthusiasts.

    I can understand how kids don't become enthusiasts about basics of computer technology. If you were born in the 80s or prior, you would have observed th evolution of technology from simple tape based game such as "Bruce Lee" on t ZX Spectrum all the way to Crysis & then to titles that still blow me away today such as Red Dead Redemption 2. The 90s kids skipped all this early tec therefore have no nostalgic interest in it. For instance, I have no interest systems that came out in the 60s and 70s or the operating systems they ran o along with formats such as the old IBM punch cards. I guess your boy is more interested in things that happened in the mid-2000s as that would be nostalg for him. Then agian, it sounds like he has no interest in computers at all!


    A co-worker has a daughter that has some behavioral issues (only child with single parent, parents separation/ divorce was a heated mess) she has chosen programming to be her main hobby rather than sprts or hanging around friends.
    The circle of friends she does have are all in similar family situations, and
    must've learned how to write code on Raspberry Pi's and Arduinos together.

    I'm not sure why I find that interesting. Maybe it's because it's a path
    less travelled for mid teens that aren't trying to hack and break stuff.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 11:49:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Mon Jul 20 2020 02:25 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 03:39 pm

    PC gaming has an advantage when it comes to gaming mods and player made downloadable content. I'll use Counterstrike as a great example. Halfli had a great number of development tools created for it, allowing for gameplay outside what the developers created, or creating new games by themselves.

    Absolutely. Some of my favourate games derived from mods. DOTA, the WC3 mod, spawned LoL - perhaps the most popualar competitive game ever made, though i hardly my cup of tea. I don't mind the close system nature of consoles, but you've got a good point, insofar that you can gain a greater amount of longievity in certain titles on the PC through the modding community than yo would on a console.

    I see Blizzard & Bethesda are trying to monetize the modding community by chjarging their playerbase for the privilage of using mods & also forcing creators to sign disclaimers allowing all mods, specifically the profitable ones, to be signed over & owned by the developer/platform holder.


    I'm not too happy about the last part. I guess I'm old school in believing th at when I buy a piece of software, I can modify it all I want for personal
    use. The EULA should protect the maker of the software from any reliability issues caused by modding their code or creating new content that runs on
    their platform. Even while distributing patches or home made game content I have trouble seeing any issues, since the host program is required for the
    new content to run. I view it like fan fiction, where the end product is not intended to be mistaken for studio content, or intended to profit off someone else' intellectual property.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 11:56:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Mon Jul 20 2020 02:43 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sat Jul 18 2020 06:07 am

    I prety much agree with this. I much prefer 2D graphics for real time strategy. I just don't see the point of 3D for the genre.
    It reminds me of this Spanish social media in which they tried to make it interface looki like a 3D action game. You were
    supposed to move your character in the screen and talk to people that way It crashed hard.

    Even though 3D graphics is amazing now, where things look close to lifelike, there's still an issue with RTS games. I don't think the CPU/GPU horse-power there as yet to render large scale battles with high quality well animated units. Perhaps it'll come soon though. I am looking forward to Age of Empire however it's rendered in 3D unike the recent Definitive Editions of the earl games. Such a shame, either way, I hope it's good!


    Years ago I liked palying the Mechwarrior series of games and loved playing Mech Commander, which was similar to Command in Conquer in the top down
    control of assets. When Mech Commander 2 came out, another studio made it
    and in my opinion ruined it by making it truly 3d. I feel it didn't provide much of a tactical improvement, since it was still hard to gauge terrain
    height or line of sight.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 12:01:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 20 2020 02:56 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 07:48 am

    They're designed as loss-leaders. Lose money on the hardware, make
    money on the recurring subscription revenue.

    Although the barrier to entry is fairly inexpensive, they do make a lot of revenue from game sales, internet subscriptions, peripherals, their own eSho & streaming services, etc... I guess they're quite happy to lose a few dolla on the hardware in order to hook the playerbase. It's an effective business model.


    IIRC it's called the Gillette Model, based on Gillette practically giving
    away shavers and making money off replacement blades. Services such as DirecTV and dish network provide an option to outright buy your lnb and receiv ers for a lump sum, but most viewers would freak out at the lump price and agree to pay $10 a month for leasing the receiver.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 10:56:00
    Andeddu wrote to MRO <=-

    90s kids skipped all this early tech therefore have no nostalgic
    interest in it. For instance, I have no interest in systems that came
    out in the 60s and 70s or the operating systems they ran on along with formats such as the old IBM punch cards.

    I think the nostalgic interest comes with when you first had that
    "holy crap" moment, when you can't believe you could do this. I can
    think of several - connecting to a BBS for the first time, the first
    time I telnetted to a system in a different time zone, and the first
    time I set up a web server.

    Going back to re-visit those feelings is powerful, and it's part of
    what keeps me working in a DOS window with a telnet client and an
    offline reader after 30+ years.





    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dennisk on Monday, July 20, 2020 10:57:00
    Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I wouldn't mind trying or even owning some of the systems from the 70s, something like the Commodore PET or Wang 2200 but anything earlier is
    too cumbersome to use it seems. Old CRT screens delight me.

    I never had one as a kid (I was a C= kid myself) but I'm tempted to
    get an Apple IIc or a IIgs.



    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Ogg on Monday, July 20, 2020 10:58:00
    Ogg wrote to All <=-


    The 22" simply occupied too much room, was very heavy, and generated
    quite a bit of heat. But Ubuntu sure looked really nice on that thing.
    A couple of screenshots here: http://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/linux/

    I had a 19" Viewsonic that broke my desk. Loved the look of a huge
    4:3 CRT, though.




    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 16:53:00
    Andeddu wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Haha, I don't have much free time these days so I guess I have become extremely efficient in my YouTube consumption. No matter what menial
    task I am doing at home, I seem to be carting around a phone or iPad
    which is streaming something of interest.

    I joke because I understand.

    Daniel Traechin
    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Monday, July 20, 2020 17:16:54
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 09:46 pm

    I wouldn't mind trying or even owning some of the systems from the 70s, something like the Commodore PET or Wang 2200 but anything earlier is too cumbersome to use it seems. Old CRT screens delight me.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I have only really just discovered the world of retro computers, and though all that BBSes. Despite being born in the mid-80s I would be interested in an old Apple II from 1978. I've seen a few Commodore PETs BBSing on YouTube... such adoreable little machines. I think the 70s-80s were when computers peaked in terms of aesthetics/character. I agree, those old IBM 5150 monitors, for instance, are delightful!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Monday, July 20, 2020 17:25:05
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 07:25 am

    Have you ever considered that you might have more free time if you
    *WEREN'T* carting around a phone/iPad which is streaming
    something?

    There's more to life than YouTube. Put the devices down for a
    while and try to experience it.



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.

    Highly unlikely... I guess I'd save 10 minutes per hour whenever doing chores or menial tasks, but that would be to the detriment of my QoL. Between work, seeing the missus, gym every other day & going out with friends, I am lucky to have an hour or 2 to myself. I supplement that by multi-tasking whenever possible.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Monday, July 20, 2020 13:21:32
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 11:49 am

    I'm not too happy about the last part. I guess I'm old school in believing th at when I buy a piece of software, I can modify it all I want for personal
    use. The EULA should protect the maker of the software from any reliability issues caused by modding their code or creating new content that runs on their platform. Even while distributing patches or home made game content I have trouble seeing any issues, since the host program is required for the new content to run. I view it like fan fiction, where the end product is not intended to be mistaken for studio content, or intended to profit off someone else' intellectual property.

    I've grown up using computers and have been using IBM-compatible PCs specifically since the late 80s, and got my own in 1992. I have very rarely seen software sold with its source code. Aside from some BBS packages & other things here and there, software I've seen is usually sold in just its binary form. So it has been very rare that I've been able to modify software I buy even if I wanted to.

    Usually though, if you're using an actively-maintained piece of software, it seems to me that making your own changes could make it a hassle to upgrade to new official versions when they come out. I'd probably want to integrate my own changes to new versions, and if they make significant changes to the codebase, it could potentially be difficult to find where to integrate your changes to the new version.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, July 20, 2020 13:26:50
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:56 am

    I think the nostalgic interest comes with when you first had that
    "holy crap" moment, when you can't believe you could do this. I can
    think of several - connecting to a BBS for the first time, the first
    time I telnetted to a system in a different time zone, and the first
    time I set up a web server.

    Going back to re-visit those feelings is powerful, and it's part of
    what keeps me working in a DOS window with a telnet client and an
    offline reader after 30+ years.

    I think that's a lot of it. I remember being excited when I got my own computer and modem in 1992 and started calling BBSes, thinking it was really cool to be able to connect to someone else's computer over a phone line and seeing what they had to offer. I got back into BBSing in 2007 and still enjoy it.

    I also still like to build my own desktop PC - I like choosing the parts and putting it together and being able to use something I put together myself. Also I still find a desktop PC useful (even though many people these days seem to like using tablets and smartphones, and maybe a laptop).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, July 20, 2020 13:28:31
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dennisk on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:57 am

    70s, something like the Commodore PET or Wang 2200 but anything
    earlier is too cumbersome to use it seems. Old CRT screens delight
    me.

    I never had one as a kid (I was a C= kid myself) but I'm tempted to
    get an Apple IIc or a IIgs.

    I grew up using mainly IBM-compatible PCs, but I always thought the Macs at my schools were interesting. Sometimes I'm tempted to get an old beige Mac (even an early Mac, Mac Plus/Classic, or Color Mac Classic & such), or perhaps a transparent G3 or G4 Mac tower, but then I'm not sure what I'd actually use it for.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Monday, July 20, 2020 17:44:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    Haha, I don't have much free time these days so I guess I have become extremely efficient in my YouTube consumption. No matter what menial
    task I am doing at home, I seem to be carting around a phone or iPad
    which is streaming something of interest.

    Sounds more like a dependancy than an efficiency. I don't understand why anyone would need YT 24/7. Give your body some rest from the proximity of radio so close to your body.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Warpslide@VERT/ALTERANT to Ogg on Monday, July 20, 2020 19:51:34
    time.*** Quoting Ogg from a message to All ***

    Sounds more like a dependancy than an efficiency. I don't
    understand why anyone would need YT 24/7. Give your body
    some rest from the proximity of radio so close to your
    body.

    I work around, with & on computers 8 hours a day, five days a week. Sometimes that stretches if there's a big project or an emergency, which is understandable.

    For vacations in the summer I tend to go camping. I found this great spot in Algonquin Park that I love. Up until maybe 10 years ago there was no cell service at these sites, but unfortunately they must have upgraded the service in the area & now I can get 3 bars. I purposely chose these spots because I couldn't be reached.

    I used this time to "unplug" and re-connect with the things the matter. Being in nature, actually engaging in a conversation & doing something other than staring at a screen like going swimming, heading out in the canoe or sitting around the fire & get mesmerized by the flames.

    I haven't had a chance to go camping at all this year with all the craziness going on in the world, but I'd like to at least get one weekend in if I can.

    Jay
    (There may be a certan ironly to posting this in the Internet message base)

    ... Being able to say NO is the root to reclaiming your life.

    ---
    * Origin: Northern Realms/TG | bbs.nrbbs.net:2323 (10:1/110)
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:19:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 09:46 pm

    I wouldn't mind trying or even owning some of the systems from the 70s, something like the Commodore PET or Wang 2200 but anything earlier is too cumbersome to use it seems. Old CRT screens delight me.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I have only really just discovered the world of retro computers, and though all that BBSes. Despite being born in the mid-80s I would be interested in an old Apple II from 1978. I've seen a few Commodore PETs BBSing on YouTube... such adoreable little machines. I think the
    70s-80s were when computers peaked in terms of aesthetics/character. I agree, those old IBM 5150 monitors, for instance, are delightful!

    I'm in agreement about the aesthetics of the late 70s/early 80's computers. Those computers were distinctive, and although the form factor is a little less practical it conveys the message that this is a machine, a tool.

    I did want to use an old XT case to house an AMD 700MHz, but never got around to it. Unfortunately, I lost the case.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Moondog on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:32:00
    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Mon Jul 20 2020 02:15 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:53 pm

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    he knows nothing about everything.
    i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10, h was playing bbs doorgames with my users. i was teaching him simple linux scripting.

    now it's all gone.
    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so they dont become enthusiasts.

    I can understand how kids don't become enthusiasts about basics of computer technology. If you were born in the 80s or prior, you would have observed th evolution of technology from simple tape based game such as "Bruce Lee" on t ZX Spectrum all the way to Crysis & then to titles that still blow me away today such as Red Dead Redemption 2. The 90s kids skipped all this early tec therefore have no nostalgic interest in it. For instance, I have no interest systems that came out in the 60s and 70s or the operating systems they ran o along with formats such as the old IBM punch cards. I guess your boy is more interested in things that happened in the mid-2000s as that would be nostalg for him. Then agian, it sounds like he has no interest in computers at all!


    A co-worker has a daughter that has some behavioral issues (only child with single parent, parents separation/ divorce was a heated mess) she
    has chosen programming to be her main hobby rather than sprts or
    hanging around friends.
    The circle of friends she does have are all in similar family
    situations, and
    must've learned how to write code on Raspberry Pi's and Arduinos together.

    I'm not sure why I find that interesting. Maybe it's because it's a
    path less travelled for mid teens that aren't trying to hack and break stuff.

    Maybe the behaviour issues are exacerbated by the use of technology? I find my kids behave worse when they've been playing on the Computer/Raspberry Pi/Nintendo DS. I mean, I spend more time on the computer than I should myself, but if there is a way to give them something else to do, I think one should.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:46:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Andeddu wrote to MRO <=-

    90s kids skipped all this early tech therefore have no nostalgic
    interest in it. For instance, I have no interest in systems that came
    out in the 60s and 70s or the operating systems they ran on along with formats such as the old IBM punch cards.

    I think the nostalgic interest comes with when you first had that
    "holy crap" moment, when you can't believe you could do this. I can
    think of several - connecting to a BBS for the first time, the first
    time I telnetted to a system in a different time zone, and the first
    time I set up a web server.

    Going back to re-visit those feelings is powerful, and it's part of
    what keeps me working in a DOS window with a telnet client and an
    offline reader after 30+ years.

    This, and the fun times. But definately that realisation that you can do something new, that you couldn't do before, sticks with you. That happened far more in the 80's and 90s, because there were significant leaps. One day you could only display 8 colours, the next 256 out of 264 thousand. One day, you have no capability for digital sound, the next, you can record your voice and music and play it back, or listen to Tracker Modules.download a file.

    The first "holy crap" moment was in year 7 when at the end of the year the maths teacher took us into the computer lab for a week to teach us beginners BASIC on the Apple II's. All of a sudden, I found you can actually tell the computer what you could do yourself. This box which was a mystery could be programmed, and I could determine the program. That changed everything for me.

    Today, all the basic functionality has been there since the beginning, and the OS's haven't changed that much. The computers are faster, but the difference between going to 8G from 2G isn't as significant as from 4K to 64K, nor are larger hard drives all that different, not as different as going from casette to disk. Apart from ability to run AAA games, a 10 year old computer is barely different to a modern one. In 1990, a 10 year old computer came from another world.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Ogg on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:47:00
    Ogg wrote to All <=-

    Hello Dennisk!

    ** On Monday 20.07.20 - 22:46, dennisk wrote to Andeddu:

    I wouldn't mind trying or even owning some of the systems from the 70s, something like the Commodore PET or Wang 2200 but anything earlier is
    too cumbersome to use it seems. Old CRT screens delight me.

    At one point I had 10 crt screens ranging from 14" to 22". Took them
    to the landfill/recycle in one trip about 15 years ago.

    The 22" simply occupied too much room, was very heavy, and generated
    quite a bit of heat. But Ubuntu sure looked really nice on that thing.
    A couple of screenshots here: http://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/linux/

    I still have a 36" TV console parked in an outdoor shed. It has a
    rather nice wood cabinet. It's a rather large monster and difficult for one person to move, but I got it down a flight of stairs and outside
    the house all by myself. The stereo sound subsystem was actually quite good. But the darn thing really consumed far too much wattage. The
    moment it was replaced with an LED TV, the hydro bill took a fast dip.

    I still have a perfectly fine 15" CRT gathering dust. Haven't had the heart to surrender it to the dump yet. Want it?

    The one other CRT-based machine I'm still hanging on to is a rather
    funky iMac G3 w/translucent blue case - in the off chance that I will
    have a proper spot and time to play with it again.

    I would take the CRT, but I'm Australia and transport is too much trouble. Thanks anyway.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Monday, July 20, 2020 19:42:00
    Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Have you ever considered that you might have more free time if you
    *WEREN'T* carting around a phone/iPad which is streaming
    something?

    There's more to life than YouTube. Put the devices down for a
    while and try to experience it.

    Highly unlikely... I guess I'd save 10 minutes per hour whenever
    doing chores or menial tasks, but that would be to the detriment
    of my QoL. Between work, seeing the missus, gym every other day &
    going out with friends, I am lucky to have an hour or 2 to
    myself. I supplement that by multi-tasking whenever possible.

    Yeeaahhhhh.... well alrighty then.



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dennisk on Monday, July 20, 2020 21:36:15
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Jul 21 2020 10:32 am


    Maybe the behaviour issues are exacerbated by the use of technology? I find my kids behave worse when they've been playing on the Computer/Raspberry Pi/Nintendo DS. I mean, I spend more time on the computer than I should myself, but if there is a way to give them something else to do, I think one should.


    their brain is over stimulating. i notice my son would be bitchy if i let him play call of duty all the time until bed time.

    since their brain is developing it's a good idea to limit their time.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 15:03:10
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 11:32 am

    A co-worker has a daughter that has some behavioral issues (only child with single parent, parents separation/ divorce was a heated mess) she has chosen programming to be her main hobby rather than sprts or hanging around friends.
    The circle of friends she does have are all in similar family situations, and
    must've learned how to write code on Raspberry Pi's and Arduinos together.

    I'm not sure why I find that interesting. Maybe it's because it's a path less travelled for mid teens that aren't trying to hack and break stuff.

    At least she's found something she appears to be passionate about. Most kids are fairly lazy these days and always tend to take the path of least resistance - coding is something I couldn't really get into, other than basic programming in high school, I never went near it. I had a very clever school/university friend who was incredible with computers & could make them do anything, he ended up graduating with a first-class CS degree and ended up working for some software firm in Japan. I guess there's money to be made if you're that way inclined! Technology is going to dominate our future, especially in the next decade or so wit 5G and the "internet of things" which is why young folk have a vested interest in all this.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 15:19:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 11:49 am

    I'm not too happy about the last part. I guess I'm old school in believing th at when I buy a piece of software, I can modify it all I want for personal
    use. The EULA should protect the maker of the software from any reliability issues caused by modding their code or creating new content that runs on
    their platform. Even while distributing patches or home made game content I have trouble seeing any issues, since the host program is required for the new content to run. I view it like fan fiction, where the end product is not intended to be mistaken for studio content, or intended to profit off someone else' intellectual property.


    I agree with being able to own your own IP as a creator even if your creation is a mod of a retail game. I just think that devs are aware now that they've missed out on huge IPs that they've provided the tools to create - IPs such as League of Legends, Counter-Strike, PUBG, Day of Defeat, Garry's Mod, Team Fortress, etc... I see in Valve's case, they've always purchased the IP rights and thereafter employed the modders, this happened several times with L4D, CS DoD etc... which has obviously come at a huge expense over the years. Blizzard missed out on League of Legends which generates over 1.5 billion dollars per year, for example. Looks like their intention going forward is to profit off of other people's creative ideas & hard work.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 09:42:26
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Mon Jul 20 2020 02:43 am

    I prety much agree with this. I much prefer 2D graphics for real time strategy. I just don't see the point of 3D for the genre.
    It reminds me of this Spanish social media in which they tried to make its interface looki like a 3D action game. You were
    supposed to move your character in the screen and talk to people that way. It crashed hard.

    Even though 3D graphics is amazing now, where things look close to lifelike, there's still an issue with RTS games. I don't think the CPU/GPU horse-power is there as yet to render large scale battles with high quality well animated units. Perhaps it'll come soon though. I am looking forward to Age of Empires 4 however it's rendered in 3D unike the recent Definitive Editions of the earlier games. Such a shame, either way, I hope it's good!

    You want to see the future? Right here - https://youtu.be/AITWKXVekGw

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 09:45:46
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:56 am

    I think the nostalgic interest comes with when you first had that
    "holy crap" moment, when you can't believe you could do this. I can
    think of several - connecting to a BBS for the first time, the first
    time I telnetted to a system in a different time zone, and the first
    time I set up a web server.

    One of my first calls was to a local board called the "White House." It had an ansi of the white house and everthing.

    I literally thought I was connecting to the white house. That was a euphoric feeling, even if somewhat incorrect hah!

    ---TLM

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 13:46:51
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:56 am

    I think the nostalgic interest comes with when you first had that
    "holy crap" moment, when you can't believe you could do this. I can
    think of several - connecting to a BBS for the first time, the first
    time I telnetted to a system in a different time zone, and the first
    time I set up a web server.

    I distinctly remember my mindblown moments as a teenager while learning computers. I read every book I could in the
    library about modems and bulletin board systems before I got my first modem. My older brother gave me his Amiga and
    1200 baud modem when he upgraded to an IBM PC. I don't think he ever really figured out how to best use his modem,
    because he didn't seem to have any proper BBS terminal software for it. So, my first "wow" moment, of course, was the
    first several connections. It was a simple dumb connection. To even attempt my first transfers was to do simple
    capture to file transfers and pray there was no line noise. Eventually, I found a better terminal, and then another,
    and soon was doing full ANSI color with ymodem-G transfers or something. I felt elite. ;)

    The next big "wow" moment was also telnetting. I heard from a coworker who was taking college classes that our local
    university had a dialin that you enter something called an IP address, and it would connect you. He gave me an

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 15:29:30
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 11:56 am

    Years ago I liked palying the Mechwarrior series of games and loved playing Mech Commander, which was similar to Command in Conquer in the top down control of assets. When Mech Commander 2 came out, another studio made it and in my opinion ruined it by making it truly 3d. I feel it didn't provide much of a tactical improvement, since it was still hard to gauge terrain height or line of sight.

    Point-and-click advernture games, I feel, are another genre blighted by the 3D craze of the mid-late 90s. I mean, the Monkey Island series, Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle along with the King's Quest series looked great in stylized hand drawn graphics. The subsequent 3D p&c adventure games aged very badly in contrast. Glad most indie developers are creating graphic adventure games that are visually similar to the earlier period, such as Thimbleweek Park.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 15:37:22
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:56 am

    I think the nostalgic interest comes with when you first had that
    "holy crap" moment, when you can't believe you could do this. I can
    think of several - connecting to a BBS for the first time, the first
    time I telnetted to a system in a different time zone, and the first
    time I set up a web server.

    Going back to re-visit those feelings is powerful, and it's part of
    what keeps me working in a DOS window with a telnet client and an
    offline reader after 30+ years.

    You nailed it. My first "holy crap" moment was experiencing the internet for the first time in the form of online-gaming. I couldn't believe the other players on the screen were not in the same room. My parents didn't have access to the internet until 1997 so when I experienced that back in 1995, I was blown away... especially given that I had no idea computers could network or anything like that. I had only experienced stand alone systems. I kind of got that "holy crap" moment again last month when I got this '84 Mac online and connected to a BBS. I didn't think there was anything pre-internet, to my knowledge nothing like this existed until 1989.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 15:41:14
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dennisk on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:57 am

    I never had one as a kid (I was a C= kid myself) but I'm tempted to
    get an Apple IIc or a IIgs.

    I'd be tempted too to pick up a // or a //c. An Apple /// with the official monitor would be my dream retro computer, however I don't think many survived due to the 100% failure rate! I've never seen one for sale.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 15:47:13
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 20 2020 01:26 pm

    Also I still find a desktop PC useful (even though many people these days seem to like using tablets and smartphones, and maybe a laptop).

    I don't really see too many people with desktop PCs in their houses nowadays. Back in the 1990s-2000s it would be strange NOT to see a PC tucked away in the livingroom corner, or in a bedroom. Now most folk use laptops for productivity, games consoles for gaming and tablets for casual interet browsing, e-mails and Skype.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 15:53:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 20 2020 01:28 pm

    I grew up using mainly IBM-compatible PCs, but I always thought the Macs at my schools were interesting. Sometimes I'm tempted to get an old beige Mac (even an early Mac, Mac Plus/Classic, or Color Mac Classic & such), or perhaps a transparent G3 or G4 Mac tower, but then I'm not sure what I'd actually use it for.

    Compact Macs are great. You'd be able to find a nice Mac Plus for a resonable price, the 128Ks are collector's items, and non-upgraded 512Ks in a reasonable condition are fairly rare. I've been looking for SEs but there doesn't seem to be many in A1 condition, at least where I am from.

    Eh, you'd be onto plums if you're looking to use it for anything other than word-processing or BBSing. I only BBS on mine as the games are absolutely rancid on these archaic machines!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 16:00:16
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 10:19 am

    I'm in agreement about the aesthetics of the late 70s/early 80's computers. Those computers were distinctive, and although the form factor is a little less practical it conveys the message that this is a machine, a tool.

    I did want to use an old XT case to house an AMD 700MHz, but never got around to it. Unfortunately, I lost the case.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I love the early 80s IBM desktop cases, they're so cold, austere and utilitarian - a no nonsense business machine! Such a shame you lost that old case.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Gamgee on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 16:04:18
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 07:42 pm

    Yeeaahhhhh.... well alrighty then.

    I guess it's no different to the people who stick on Ear Pods & listen to music or audiobooks while they're occupied doing something else.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 16:24:40
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Mon Jul 20 2020 05:44 pm

    Sounds more like a dependancy than an efficiency. I don't understand why anyone would need YT 24/7. Give your body some rest from the proximity of radio so close to your body.

    It may be some low-level addiction, sure... but I can't see it as anything other than harmless. Quite the same as people who listen to the radio, stick on the TV while doing housework, or popping on Ear Pods and listening to a podcast. Same thing, really.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 16:43:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Tue Jul 21 2020 03:47 pm

    I don't really see too many people with desktop PCs in their houses nowadays. Back in the 1990s-2000s it would be strange NOT to see a PC tucked away in the livingroom corner, or in a bedroom. Now most folk use laptops for productivity, games consoles for gaming and tablets for casual interet browsing, e-mails and Skype.

    I like video games sometimes, and I think some are just better on a PC with a keyboard & mouse. And a laptop could potentially get too hot with some workloads.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 16:45:39
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Tue Jul 21 2020 03:53 pm

    Compact Macs are great. You'd be able to find a nice Mac Plus for a resonable price, the 128Ks are collector's items, and non-upgraded 512Ks in a reasonable condition are fairly rare. I've been looking for SEs but there doesn't seem to be many in A1 condition, at least where I am from.

    Eh, you'd be onto plums if you're looking to use it for anything other than word-processing or BBSing. I only BBS on mine as the games are absolutely rancid on these archaic machines!

    I had a typing class in 8th grade, and that classroom was full of Mac Classics. Sometimes we'd have some leftover time if we finished our typing assignments, so sometimes I'd play some games on those machines. I remember playing a shufflepuck game and NetTrek. Although those were small black & white Macs, I thought those games were still at least mildly fun. But I could probably play them on a Mac emulator on my PC these days.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 16:52:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 21 2020 03:37 pm

    You nailed it. My first "holy crap" moment was experiencing the internet for the first time in the form of online-gaming. I couldn't believe the other players on the screen were not in the same room. My parents didn't have access to the internet until 1997 so when I experienced that back in 1995, I was blown away... especially given that I had no idea computers could network or anything like that. I had only experienced stand alone systems. I kind of got that "holy crap" moment again last month when I got this '84 Mac online and connected to a BBS. I didn't think there was anything pre-internet, to my knowledge nothing like this existed until 1989.

    I had heard about networked computers. And I noticed the IPX/SPX networking options in DOS games, so I knew you could play networked PC games. I first started using the internet in 1995, and it was one of those things I thought was amazing - So much stuff was easily accessible. One thing was that on BBSes back then, I often liked to download PC games and utilities from BBSes, and on the internet, it was a lot easier to find the latest versions of software. On BBSes, sometimes it was hard to know if what you had downloaded was the newest version or not, as sometimes a file wouldn't spread to all BBSes in your area.

    As far as PC gaming, I soon learned about Kali, which was a program that allowed IPX/SPX networked games to be played over TCP/IP on the internet. I enjoyed playing DOS games that way (Descent, Descent 2, Warcraft 2, etc.).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:14:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 10:19 am

    I'm in agreement about the aesthetics of the late 70s/early 80's computers. Those computers were distinctive, and although the form factor is a little less practical it conveys the message that this is a machine, a tool.

    I did want to use an old XT case to house an AMD 700MHz, but never got around to it. Unfortunately, I lost the case.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I love the early 80s IBM desktop cases, they're so cold, austere and utilitarian - a no nonsense business machine! Such a shame you lost
    that old case.

    I'm really annoyed about it too. I either left it behind at a rental property somehow, or my parents threw it out of the garage, not sure which. Odd thing is, I still have the monitor, the keyboard and the motherboard and addon cards (all still work, though not 100% sure about the keyboard). Last I saw it was over 10 years ago...



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:18:00
    Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 20 2020 01:26 pm

    Also I still find a desktop PC useful (even though many people these days seem to like using tablets and smartphones, and maybe a laptop).

    I don't really see too many people with desktop PCs in their houses nowadays. Back in the 1990s-2000s it would be strange NOT to see a PC tucked away in the livingroom corner, or in a bedroom. Now most folk
    use laptops for productivity, games consoles for gaming and tablets for casual interet browsing, e-mails and Skype.

    Yeah, you are right. I only see people who are developers or hobbyists still using desktops. Even at work, we don't use them, we have laptops instead.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 18:50:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Jul 21 2020 10:32 am

    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Mon Jul 20 2020 02:15 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Jul 17 2020 06:53 pm

    my son is 25 and he's a total idiot with computers and hardware.
    he 'fixed' my mom's router by taking out the wifi password.

    he knows nothing about everything.
    i was teaching him how to use windows command line shit when he was 10 was playing bbs doorgames with my users. i was teaching him simple li scripting.

    now it's all gone.
    there is nothing new and amazing about computers so they dont become enthusiasts.

    I can understand how kids don't become enthusiasts about basics of comput technology. If you were born in the 80s or prior, you would have observed evolution of technology from simple tape based game such as "Bruce Lee" o ZX Spectrum all the way to Crysis & then to titles that still blow me awa today such as Red Dead Redemption 2. The 90s kids skipped all this early therefore have no nostalgic interest in it. For instance, I have no inter systems that came out in the 60s and 70s or the operating systems they ra along with formats such as the old IBM punch cards. I guess your boy is m interested in things that happened in the mid-2000s as that would be nost for him. Then agian, it sounds like he has no interest in computers at al


    A co-worker has a daughter that has some behavioral issues (only child with single parent, parents separation/ divorce was a heated mess) she has chosen programming to be her main hobby rather than sprts or hanging around friends.
    The circle of friends she does have are all in similar family situations, and
    must've learned how to write code on Raspberry Pi's and Arduinos together.

    I'm not sure why I find that interesting. Maybe it's because it's a path less travelled for mid teens that aren't trying to hack and break stuff.

    Maybe the behaviour issues are exacerbated by the use of technology? I find kids behave worse when they've been playing on the Computer/Raspberry Pi/Nintendo DS. I mean, I spend more time on the computer than I should myse but if there is a way to give them something else to do, I think one should.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    The way it sounds is there was a custody battle, and the girls father and his parents played some nasty head games to get custody from her mother. She
    likes the structure and discipline of programming, and that's probably the
    only thing stable and predictable in her life.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 14:23:00
    Dennisk wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Today, all the basic functionality has been there since the beginning,
    and the OS's haven't changed that much. The computers are faster, but
    the difference between going to 8G from 2G isn't as significant as from
    4K to 64K, nor are larger hard drives all that different, not as
    different as going from casette to disk. Apart from ability to run AAA games, a 10 year old computer is barely different to a modern one. In 1990, a 10 year old computer came from another world.

    Linux was my main OS for quite a few years, until I finally started college
    in 2014. Right off the bat, my first instructor insisted we write everything using Microsoft Word, and the formatting for the documents was so strict
    that he insisted we use the desktop version, not the web version due to differences. So, I bought a new PC with Windows 10. The next semester I took
    a database class that insisted on Microsoft Access. I found myself using Linux less and less.

    Now that I'm teaching, I'm exploring modifying the classes so that we don't have to dictate, at least for the CIS classes, exactly which OS to use. I
    even found a textbook for the database class that doesn't specifically rely
    on Access.

    A few weeks ago, I was looking at how much memory Windows 10 and the various apps I had were using. I had two chat programs, Teams, Outlook, and music streaming. Maybe a browser tab was open on Facebook or something. I think
    it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or
    other that specializes in minimalism, and set up the same exact environment.
    I had Freelook, Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC.
    I think I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit operating system).

    So, I resized my Windows 10 partition and installed Linux on my desktop. I'm feeling a lot happier now. There's only one or two tasks I still need Windows for; I've set up a Windows 10 VM for that.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 22:12:00
    Hello Baguette!

    ** On Saturday 18.07.20 - 03:09, baguette wrote to MRO:

    If it makes you feel any better, I'm 18 and I'm trying to teach myself
    about all this shit. Want to do it for a living, even. Not gonna pretend
    to know anything extraordinary, but I'm trying, at least.

    You should have no trouble finding people who need a bit of help here and there for a website. And based on your own site..

    https://hbaguette.neocities.org

    ...you are developing strengths in many of the basics. I can see that
    are you are having a lot of fun with this shit. LOL

    But.. as an 18yr old, what is your impression on the future of BBSing?

    It's refreshing to learn that there is some very young blood exploring
    this hobby!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 21:57:00
    Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

    As far as PC gaming, I soon learned about Kali, which was a
    program that allowed IPX/SPX networked games to be played over
    TCP/IP on the internet. I enjoyed playing DOS games that way
    (Descent, Descent 2, Warcraft 2, etc.).

    Ahhhh Kali! Registered it and used it to play Duke Nukem 3D -
    possibly the most enjoyable "shooter" game ever made. Gawd the
    countless hours spent on that... LOL



    ... Never give up ... never surrender.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dreamer on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 21:58:55
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Dennisk on Tue Jul 21 2020 02:23 pm

    A few weeks ago, I was looking at how much memory Windows 10 and the various apps I had were using. I had two chat programs, Teams, Outlook, and music streaming. Maybe a browser tab was open on Facebook or something. I think it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or other that specializes in minimalism, and set up the same exact environment. I had Freelook, Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC. I think I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit operating system).

    I've heard people say Windows uses RAM for caching, and that argument also says that unused RAM is wasted RAM.. I tend to disagree though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 00:55:52
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Dreamer on Tue Jul 21 2020 09:58 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Dennisk on Tue Jul 21 2020 02:23 pm

    A few weeks ago, I was looking at how much memory Windows 10 and the
    various apps I had were using. I had two chat programs, Teams,
    Outlook, and music streaming. Maybe a browser tab was open on
    Facebook or something. I think it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a
    lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or other that specializes in
    minimalism, and set up the same exact environment. I had Freelook,
    Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC. I think
    I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit
    operating system).

    I've heard people say Windows uses RAM for caching, and that argument also says that unused RAM is wasted RAM.. I tend to disagree though.


    i think windows normally uses disk for caching. way too often in my opinion. regarding this guy having 7 gigs of usage, there's a lot of programs that arent really optomized or they have memory holes.

    i have a big problem with some browsers eating up tons of memory.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to The Lizard Master on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 20:40:00
    The Lizard Master wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:56 am

    I think the nostalgic interest comes with when you first had that
    "holy crap" moment, when you can't believe you could do this. I can
    think of several - connecting to a BBS for the first time, the first
    time I telnetted to a system in a different time zone, and the first
    time I set up a web server.

    One of my first calls was to a local board called the "White House."
    It had an ansi of the white house and everthing.

    I literally thought I was connecting to the white house. That was a euphoric feeling, even if somewhat incorrect hah!

    Before I found some local phone numbers, I used some national numbers
    out of a library book on BBSes. There were a number of state and federal government numbers you could call for public information. Just like today,
    the most interesting was NASA. The least interesting were all in the
    executive branch.

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 20:49:00
    Andeddu wrote to Ogg <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Mon Jul 20 2020 05:44 pm

    Sounds more like a dependancy than an efficiency. I don't understand why anyone would need YT 24/7. Give your body some rest from the proximity of radio so close to your body.

    It may be some low-level addiction, sure... but I can't see it as
    anything other than harmless. Quite the same as people who listen to
    the radio, stick on the TV while doing housework, or popping on Ear
    Pods and listening to a podcast. Same thing, really.

    In my house, the kitchen, dining area, and living room were basically one long space with only a bar seperating the kitchen off. The living room TV stayed on from the time my mom got home until bedtime. She watched her drama shows in
    the early afternoon (she was a cafeteria lady, so got home early), then was usually moving around the house doing chores.

    I don't bother with cable television. Usually I stream music while I work on the computer, but if I'm moving around doing things I'll have YouTube videos going in my pocket. There are several personalities I listen to, and while they often have interesting visuals in their videos, they are perfectly enjoyable in a podcast format.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 20:57:00
    Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Tue Jul 21 2020 03:47 pm

    I don't really see too many people with desktop PCs in their houses nowadays. Back in the 1990s-2000s it would be strange NOT to see a PC tucked away in the livingroom corner, or in a bedroom. Now most folk use laptops for productivity, games consoles for gaming and tablets for casual interet browsing, e-mails and Skype.

    I like video games sometimes, and I think some are just better on a PC with a keyboard & mouse. And a laptop could potentially get too hot
    with some workloads.

    I think it was Bryan Lunduke who addressed this recently and made the case that we don't really need desktop PCs anymore. I'm too lazy to look up the
    exact video, but it sounds like him (he likes to approach both ends of topics).

    I used to swear I would always have at least a desktop PC, but with how powerful computers are getting, I'm beginning to appreciate having something
    in a small form factor. Actually, I've gotten quite minimalist in my older age, and I'm planning to dump a lot of stuff and move into a travel trailer. I
    took stock some time back and figured out I'm rarely home, tend to wear the same sets of clothes, do 90% of my work on a Chromebook, etc. Now that I work in an office and classroom, I don't need much at home.

    Another personality I follow lives out of a campervan and documents his travels. While I'm sure at least some of his content is BS clickbait, I am certain he does all his own video production on a Mac. If time is not a
    factor, you can do anything on small form factor PCs except high-end gaming. Even when I'm out and about and need to do some video editing or work in
    Visual Studio, I just remote in to a more powerful PC that's set up for that purpose.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Dreamer on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 21:20:00
    Dreamer wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Dennisk wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Today, all the basic functionality has been there since the beginning,
    and the OS's haven't changed that much. The computers are faster, but
    the difference between going to 8G from 2G isn't as significant as from
    4K to 64K, nor are larger hard drives all that different, not as
    different as going from casette to disk. Apart from ability to run AAA games, a 10 year old computer is barely different to a modern one. In 1990, a 10 year old computer came from another world.

    Linux was my main OS for quite a few years, until I finally started college in 2014. Right off the bat, my first instructor insisted we
    write everything using Microsoft Word, and the formatting for the documents was so strict that he insisted we use the desktop version,
    not the web version due to differences. So, I bought a new PC with
    Windows 10. The next semester I took a database class that insisted on Microsoft Access. I found myself using Linux less and less.

    Now that I'm teaching, I'm exploring modifying the classes so that we don't have to dictate, at least for the CIS classes, exactly which OS
    to use. I even found a textbook for the database class that doesn't specifically rely on Access.

    A few weeks ago, I was looking at how much memory Windows 10 and the various apps I had were using. I had two chat programs, Teams, Outlook, and music streaming. Maybe a browser tab was open on Facebook or something. I think it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or other that specializes in minimalism, and set up
    the same exact environment. I had Freelook, Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC. I think I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit operating system).

    So, I resized my Windows 10 partition and installed Linux on my
    desktop. I'm feeling a lot happier now. There's only one or two tasks I still need Windows for; I've set up a Windows 10 VM for that.

    I don't get why Windows uses so much RAM. I've always found Linux to run faster, even back in 2000. I noticed that in 2000, when I started using it, I could burn a CD, listen to an MP3 and download a file at the same time, without having to worry about the computer spitting chips, whereas with Windows, it would struggle.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 08:57:51
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 12:55 am

    i think windows normally uses disk for caching. way too often in my opinion. regarding this guy having 7 gigs of usage, there's a lot of programs that arent really optomized or they have memory holes.

    Why would an OS use the disk for caching programs? The point would be to make the loading of programs & data faster, and that works best by loading it and keeping it in RAM (which is much faster than a HDD, and perhaps still faster than an SSD).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dreamer on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 09:04:31
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Tue Jul 21 2020 08:57 pm

    I think it was Bryan Lunduke who addressed this recently and made the case that we don't really need desktop PCs anymore. I'm too lazy to look up the exact video, but it sounds like him (he likes to approach both ends of topics).

    Who is "we"? I suppose many people could probably get by with a tablet or something, but there are things I do where I think it helps to have a desktop PC (mainly, for the power of the components available and cooling options afforded by a desktop PC). I have software I have developed & work on sometimes, so it's nice to have a big monitor and a real keyboard to type on. Also, sometimes I use my PC for photo & video editing, and sometimes I've used my PC for distributed computing tasks too. Sometimes that kind of thing can make use of a GPU as well, so it can be useful to have a powerful GPU. With a powerful GPU and a powerful CPU, it's also necessary to have adequate cooling when the PC is doing those types of tasks. A laptop and a tablet don't really have a lot of space to move much air through for cooling as well as a desktop, and I'm not sure you could even do liquid cooling in a laptop or tablet if you wanted to. Tablets & smartphones typically don't have as much computing power as you could get from a laptop or desktop PC either.

    One thing I just can't really get used to is a virtual keyboard on a tablet or smartphone. I learned to touch-type a long time ago, and I can type much faster and more accurately on a real keyboard. Also, I think a mouse is really good for some creative tasks as well.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dreamer on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 08:33:00
    Dreamer wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Linux was my main OS for quite a few years, until I finally started college in 2014. Right off the bat, my first instructor insisted we
    write everything using Microsoft Word, and the formatting for the documents was so strict that he insisted we use the desktop version,
    not the web version due to differences. So, I bought a new PC with
    Windows 10. The next semester I took a database class that insisted on Microsoft Access. I found myself using Linux less and less.

    That's dissapointing. I'd hope they'd support open formats like
    the formats supported by OpenOffice/Libreoffice.

    And, the less Access taught, the better. :)


    Now that I'm teaching, I'm exploring modifying the classes so that we don't have to dictate, at least for the CIS classes, exactly which OS
    to use. I even found a textbook for the database class that doesn't specifically rely on Access.

    I'm glad my classes back then were agnostic. We could write C using
    any standard libraries; most people used Turbo C, but I had a copy of
    Microsoft Quick C I'd gotten on a steep discount, and I liked the
    IDE better.

    A few weeks ago, I was looking at how much memory Windows 10 and the various apps I had were using. I had two chat programs, Teams, Outlook, and music streaming. Maybe a browser tab was open on Facebook or something. I think it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or other that specializes in minimalism, and set up
    the same exact environment. I had Freelook, Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC. I think I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit operating system).

    Nice! I have a dependency on a VPN for some of my work, otherwise I'd
    do the same thing. I run Windows 10 on my desktop, Mint on my
    laptops.

    So, I resized my Windows 10 partition and installed Linux on my
    desktop. I'm feeling a lot happier now. There's only one or two tasks I still need Windows for; I've set up a Windows 10 VM for that.

    Linux should support NTFS out of the box now, yes? Might be an
    interesting project for any of us running Windows.




    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dreamer on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 08:35:00
    Dreamer wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I used to swear I would always have at least a desktop PC, but with how powerful computers are getting, I'm beginning to appreciate having something in a small form factor.

    The only thing I need a desktop for is War Thunder. For anything
    except games, a laptop would do the trick nicely.


    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 07:59:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dreamer <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Dennisk on Tue Jul 21 2020 02:23 pm

    A few weeks ago, I was looking at how much memory Windows 10 and the various apps I had were using. I had two chat programs, Teams, Outlook, and music streaming. Maybe a browser tab was open on Facebook or something. I think it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or other that specializes in minimalism, and set up the same exact environment. I had Freelook, Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC. I think I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit operating system).

    I've heard people say Windows uses RAM for caching, and that argument
    also says that unused RAM is wasted RAM.. I tend to disagree though.

    In this case, I think it was actual used RAM. Teams is an Electron app, and runs on its own browser. And I was running the new Edge; although they're both versions of Chromium, I think Microsoft may have modified their browser to the point that there aren't many shared libraries in common.

    Either way, the memory management seems to be a lot more efficient for my usage on Linux. More practically, things just *move* faster in Linux. When I log in, Teams, Skype, Freelook, and Messenger are set to autoload. It took a good minute for everything to load, and maybe another minute of what seemed like disk thrashing to settle down. I'm logged in and ready to go in just a few seconds now.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to MRO on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 08:05:00
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    i think windows normally uses disk for caching. way too often in my opinion. regarding this guy having 7 gigs of usage, there's a lot of programs that arent really optomized or they have memory holes.

    i have a big problem with some browsers eating up tons of memory.

    I haven't really read much in detail on this. Windows does some cacheing
    in memory of programs; I think it's mainly shared libraries, and some static libraries of programs frequently used or something.

    The disk caching may have to do with dotnet. Every time its updated, dotnet recompiles a bunch of shit. Windows also does a ton of disk thrashing, in
    my opinion, with every reboot. A lot of people probably don't notice with
    SSDs getting popular, but my desktop has old fashioned platters.

    When testing a couple Linux distros, I installed and ran off of USB. Not
    Live ISO's, but actual desktop installs. I figured if the performance
    running from a USB 2.0 equalled Windows 10, it would fly on my disk. :)


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From HSM@VERT/FREESPEA to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 15:47:00
    On 21 Jul 2020, Andeddu said the following...

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 20 2020 01:26 pm

    Also I still find a desktop PC useful (even though many people these da seem to like using tablets and smartphones, and maybe a laptop).

    I don't really see too many people with desktop PCs in their houses nowada Back in the 1990s-2000s it would be strange NOT to see a PC tucked away in livingroom corner, or in a bedroom. Now most folk use laptops for producti games consoles for gaming and tablets for casual interet browsing, e-mails Skype.

    Not sure where you are from, but I don't know anyone that doesn't have a PC
    in addition to a laptop, console and a smart phone and/or tablet. Most households have multiple devices.

    -=- Gary aka HSM -=-
    -=TheFreeSpeak.com=-

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: -=- TheFreeSpeak.com -=- Pittsburgh, PA -=-
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 19:27:58
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 04:43 pm

    I like video games sometimes, and I think some are just better on a PC with a keyboard & mouse. And a laptop could potentially get too hot with some workloads.

    Nightfox

    I guess it depends on which generes you like the most. FPSes, RTSes and D&D RPGs are all much more suited for the PC. Third person shooters, Madden/FIFA sports games, driving sims, beat-em-ups, etc.. feel better on a console. I like chilling out on my living room couch and playing games on my 55" 4K telly with HDR rather than hunching over a PC. It depends on which game I am playing though as my gaming laptop is great for all my PC stuff.

    You're right though, I had to downclock my i7-8750H because the temperarture in degrees celcius for the CPU was in the mid-90s!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 19:38:02
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 04:45 pm

    I had a typing class in 8th grade, and that classroom was full of Mac Classics. Sometimes we'd have some leftover time if we finished our typing assignments, so sometimes I'd play some games on those machines. I remember playing a shufflepuck game and NetTrek. Although those were small black & white Macs, I thought those games were still at least mildly fun. But I could probably play them on a Mac emulator on my PC these days.

    I love the monochrome black and white screens. Shame they didn't make them green though, I'd have preferred that.

    I actually played that shufflepuck game a few weeks ago on this thing. It's still playable today however it's nothing more than a 5 minute distraction by today's standards. I wasn't too interested in these old titles but they were bundled in with the floppy emulator I bought so I got to try them anyway. I was only after Mac Terminal/Red Ryder so I could BBS on this thing.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 19:43:11
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 04:52 pm

    I had heard about networked computers. And I noticed the IPX/SPX networking options in DOS games, so I knew you could play networked PC games. I first started using the internet in 1995, and it was one of those things I thought was amazing - So much stuff was easily accessible. One thing was that on BBSes back then, I often liked to download PC games and utilities from BBSes, and on the internet, it was a lot easier to find the latest versions of software. On BBSes, sometimes it was hard to know if what you had downloaded was the newest version or not, as sometimes a file wouldn't spread to all BBSes in your area.

    As far as PC gaming, I soon learned about Kali, which was a program that allowed IPX/SPX networked games to be played over TCP/IP on the internet. I enjoyed playing DOS games that way (Descent, Descent 2, Warcraft 2, etc.).

    Nightfox

    I had 2 PCs back in the early 2000s, mine and my dad's. I had a LAN and often played games with friends who were over. Games such as Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 were a blast over a zero latency network.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 19:48:43
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 10:14 am

    I'm really annoyed about it too. I either left it behind at a rental property somehow, or my parents threw it out of the garage, not sure which. Odd thing is, I still have the monitor, the keyboard and the motherboard and addon cards (all still work, though not 100% sure about the keyboard). Last I saw it was over 10 years ago...

    Perhaps you'd be able to get your hands on a replia case one day so you can rebuild the machine. The iconic IBM PC XT - Model 5160 case is the most gorgous desktop case I've come across. Wish I could assemble a modern-retro build, with up to date hardware components - I do miss the old desktop cases, always preferred them over the towers.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 19:58:33
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 10:18 am

    Yeah, you are right. I only see people who are developers or hobbyists still using desktops. Even at work, we don't use them, we have laptops instead.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I think desktops have had their time. These days it's mostly gamers in the 18-30 category who are into PC games who own desktops. Regular folk have no interest in using up a ridiculous amount of space on a system whose functionality can be ported over to a small tablet. I don't even have a desktop anymore and find web-surfing much smoother and more enjoyable on my iPad.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dreamer on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 20:04:07
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 08:49 pm

    In my house, the kitchen, dining area, and living room were basically one long space with only a bar seperating the kitchen off. The living room TV stayed on from the time my mom got home until bedtime. She watched her drama shows in
    the early afternoon (she was a cafeteria lady, so got home early), then was usually moving around the house doing chores.

    I don't bother with cable television. Usually I stream music while I work on the computer, but if I'm moving around doing things I'll have YouTube videos going in my pocket. There are several personalities I listen to, and while they often have interesting visuals in their videos, they are perfectly enjoyable in a podcast format.


    I am the same. I very rarely watch terrestrial TV. I have Netflix & Disney but hardly consume that either, unless it's late at night or with the girlfriend. I tend to stick on either retro computer channels, financial channels, sports and gaming channels on YouTube. I suppose my eyes are on the screen around 10% of the time as, like you, I tend to listen more than watch.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to The Lizard Master on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 20:31:46
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: The Lizard Master to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 09:42 am

    You want to see the future? Right here - https://youtu.be/AITWKXVekGw

    ---TLM

    That DooM clone looks great in VR. I played an on rails DooM game on the PSVR and enjoyed it quite a bit. The movement in Fears looks pretty seamless though, which was my biggest worry playing a VR shooter.

    I don't presently own a VR set but I'll be investing in PSVR2 which will likely be released around a year after the PS5.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to HSM on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 14:37:46
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: HSM to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 03:47 pm

    I don't really see too many people with desktop PCs in their houses
    Not sure where you are from, but I don't know anyone that doesn't have a PC in addition to a laptop, console and a smart phone and/or tablet. Most

    Depends on the demographic. The older and younger crowds have been ditching desktops in droves. Those of us in the 30-50 range, and heavy gamers are likely to have desktops, outside of that laptops are becoming the norm.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 16:30:47
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Jul 22 2020 08:57 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 12:55 am

    i think windows normally uses disk for caching. way too often in my
    opinion. regarding this guy having 7 gigs of usage, there's a lot of
    programs that arent really optomized or they have memory holes.

    Why would an OS use the disk for caching programs? The point would be to make the loading of programs & data faster, and that works best by loading it and keeping it in RAM (which is much faster than a HDD, and perhaps still faster than an SSD).

    windows swaps to disk, always has.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to all on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 16:31:39
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Dreamer on Wed Jul 22 2020 09:04 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Tue Jul 21 2020 08:57 pm

    I think it was Bryan Lunduke who addressed this recently and made
    the case that we don't really need desktop PCs anymore. I'm too lazy
    to look up the exact video, but it sounds like him (he likes to


    god i hate that lunduke guy. he's full of shit and annoying.
    fucking poser too.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 17:39:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Wednesday 22.07.20 - 14:48, andeddu wrote to Dennisk:

    Perhaps you'd be able to get your hands on a replia case one day so you
    can rebuild the machine. The iconic IBM PC XT - Model 5160 case is the
    most gorgous desktop case I've come across. Wish I could assemble a modern-retro build, with up to date hardware components - I do miss the
    old desktop cases, always preferred them over the towers.

    I didn't spend to much time with my XT case on the desk (and all
    subsequent pc models) ..and found the first opportunity to place it on its side in a cradle beside the desk. Out of sight, and reclaim desktop space was best for me.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 09:32:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 10:14 am

    I'm really annoyed about it too. I either left it behind at a rental property somehow, or my parents threw it out of the garage, not sure which. Odd thing is, I still have the monitor, the keyboard and the motherboard and addon cards (all still work, though not 100% sure about the keyboard). Last I saw it was over 10 years ago...

    Perhaps you'd be able to get your hands on a replia case one day so you can rebuild the machine. The iconic IBM PC XT - Model 5160 case is the most gorgous desktop case I've come across. Wish I could assemble a modern-retro build, with up to date hardware components - I do miss the old desktop cases, always preferred them over the towers.

    I'm hoping to be able to find one which is at a recyclers or second hand store or in storage somewhere, or maybe, by some miracle, mine will be found. It is a nice case, I liked it back then in 1993, and still do now. That is why I took the internals out to try and put a new PC in it. The problem was the differing form factors, and I didn't want to start drilling into it.

    I don't go for minimalism at all, not in machines or devices or rooms or decorations. I've seen monitors which took "minimalism" so far, they didn't even have a visible on-off button! I don't know when it became taboo to have labels and buttons and indicators as to what the tiny LEDS actually mean, but it is a dumb taboo.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 09:41:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 10:18 am

    Yeah, you are right. I only see people who are developers or hobbyists still using desktops. Even at work, we don't use them, we have laptops instead.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I think desktops have had their time. These days it's mostly gamers in
    the 18-30 category who are into PC games who own desktops. Regular folk have no interest in using up a ridiculous amount of space on a system whose functionality can be ported over to a small tablet. I don't even have a desktop anymore and find web-surfing much smoother and more enjoyable on my iPad.

    Some of the functionality, not all. For many, the functionality that is ported is enough though. "Devices" are really a subset of the full functionality of a proper computer, a subset which does fit most peoples needs.

    As long as I can still get a propert desktop, its fine.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 17:25:55
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 04:30 pm

    Why would an OS use the disk for caching programs? The point would
    be to make the loading of programs & data faster, and that works
    best by loading it and keeping it in RAM (which is much faster than
    a HDD, and perhaps still faster than an SSD).

    windows swaps to disk, always has.

    Memory swapping isn't caching, it's something different.. Swapping memory to disk is done so that effectively more RAM is available to run programs than there is physical RAM in the system.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 14:44:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dreamer <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Tue Jul 21 2020 08:57 pm

    I think it was Bryan Lunduke who addressed this recently and made the case that we don't really need desktop PCs anymore. I'm too lazy to look up the exact video, but it sounds like him (he likes to approach both ends of topics).

    Who is "we"? I suppose many people could probably get by with a tablet

    "We" as in most users.

    or something, but there are things I do where I think it helps to have
    a desktop PC (mainly, for the power of the components available and cooling options afforded by a desktop PC). I have software I have

    For most tasks, a notebook computer will do the same things. You'll pay more for an equivilent notebook; this is assuming you're happy with standard
    video cards and processors.

    developed & work on sometimes, so it's nice to have a big monitor and a real keyboard to type on. Also, sometimes I use my PC for photo & video editing, and sometimes I've used my PC for distributed computing tasks too. Sometimes that kind of thing can make use of a GPU as well, so it can be useful to have a powerful GPU. With a powerful GPU and a

    Most users wouldn't really need an upgraded GPU and CPU. If you're editing videos or coding big apps all day, then yeah, you may need more than a notebook. But is that most users?

    powerful CPU, it's also necessary to have adequate cooling when the PC
    is doing those types of tasks. A laptop and a tablet don't really have
    a lot of space to move much air through for cooling as well as a
    desktop, and I'm not sure you could even do liquid cooling in a laptop
    or tablet if you wanted to. Tablets & smartphones typically don't have

    WTH? I do video editing and coding, and I just have a mid-range PC. I've
    never considered liquid cooling on any of my desktops. I rarely even hit
    50% usage on my PC. But, I probably fall closer to "most users" in what I
    do.

    as much computing power as you could get from a laptop or desktop PC either.

    One thing I just can't really get used to is a virtual keyboard on a tablet or smartphone. I learned to touch-type a long time ago, and I
    can type much faster and more accurately on a real keyboard. Also, I think a mouse is really good for some creative tasks as well.

    I have a keyboard, mouse, and display which I connect my notebook to when
    I'm at my office desk.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 14:58:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dreamer <=-

    Dreamer wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Linux was my main OS for quite a few years, until I finally started college in 2014. Right off the bat, my first instructor insisted we
    write everything using Microsoft Word, and the formatting for the documents was so strict that he insisted we use the desktop version,
    not the web version due to differences. So, I bought a new PC with
    Windows 10. The next semester I took a database class that insisted on Microsoft Access. I found myself using Linux less and less.

    That's dissapointing. I'd hope they'd support open formats like
    the formats supported by OpenOffice/Libreoffice.

    Yeah, I was surprised how outdated the program was. I think my comments on
    it were probably what got me the teaching job. LOL

    And, the less Access taught, the better. :)

    I agree. I thought about dropping the database class, as I'm steering the program more towards coding than management, but I found at at the last
    minute that my department's business degree uses the class. Access is great
    for the business side, so it stays. I did change the book from pure skills- based to much more concepts-based. We'll see how that goes.

    I'm glad my classes back then were agnostic. We could write C using
    any standard libraries; most people used Turbo C, but I had a copy of
    Microsoft Quick C I'd gotten on a steep discount, and I liked the
    IDE better.

    I've found 90% of my students have ZERO incoming knowledge of computers.
    Like, they struggle with the intro PC OS class, and they have trouble passing the intro programming class. Apparently, the fundamentals aren't taught in public school anymore like they were in the 80's and 90's. I'm actually
    putting in a mandatory computer literacy class for new students. Sigh.

    So, at the moment, I have to be careful and "hold the hand" of each student. Lessons tend to be very guided. When I tried doing a more flipped classroom concept, it was a disaster and very stressful for both me and students.

    something. I think it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or other that specializes in minimalism, and set up
    the same exact environment. I had Freelook, Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC. I think I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit operating system).

    Linux should support NTFS out of the box now, yes? Might be an
    interesting project for any of us running Windows.

    Apparently so. I can't remember ever having issues with NTFS. In the early days, like mid-nineties, it may have been read-only; certainly for a while it was recommended to not do anything "important" with the NTFS mounts, but at some point I stopped seeing those warnings.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dreamer on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 21:18:07
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 02:44 pm

    powerful CPU, it's also necessary to have adequate cooling when the
    PC is doing those types of tasks. A laptop and a tablet don't
    really have a lot of space to move much air through for cooling as
    well as a desktop, and I'm not sure you could even do liquid cooling
    in a laptop or tablet if you wanted to. Tablets & smartphones
    typically don't have

    WTH? I do video editing and coding, and I just have a mid-range PC. I've never considered liquid cooling on any of my desktops. I rarely even hit 50% usage on my PC. But, I probably fall closer to "most users" in what I do.

    Yeah, I've occasionally run some tasks that have the CPU at or near 100% for hours at a time (distributed computing tasks, sometimes video transcoding), and it can help to have a good CPU cooler (at least a very good air cooler). I guess I don't really fall into the "most users" category.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 23:42:42
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Jul 22 2020 05:25 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 04:30 pm

    Why would an OS use the disk for caching programs? The point would
    be to make the loading of programs & data faster, and that works
    best by loading it and keeping it in RAM (which is much faster than
    a HDD, and perhaps still faster than an SSD).

    windows swaps to disk, always has.

    Memory swapping isn't caching, it's something different.. Swapping memory to disk is done so that effectively more RAM is available to run programs than there is physical RAM in the system.


    it puts information that was once in the memory into a physical file on the harddrive that it then uses as virtual memory.

    sounds like a cache to me.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 21:33:11
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 07:38 pm

    machines. I remember playing a shufflepuck game and NetTrek.
    Although those were small black & white Macs, I thought those games
    were still at least mildly fun. But I could probably play them on a
    Mac emulator on my PC these days.

    I love the monochrome black and white screens. Shame they didn't make them green though, I'd have preferred that.

    I think Mac OS (or 'system' as it was called back then) would look a bit weird on a green screen. Although it was odd to see new computers in the early 90s being made with black & white screens, I tend to think of that as the classic Mac look on those old Macs.

    I've often thought it would be interesting to see a Mac Color Classic. I've never actually seen one of those in person.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 22:53:07
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 11:42 pm

    Memory swapping isn't caching, it's something different.. Swapping
    memory to disk is done so that effectively more RAM is available
    to run programs than there is physical RAM in the system.

    it puts information that was once in the memory into a physical file on the harddrive that it then uses as virtual memory.

    sounds like a cache to me.

    A cache on a computer is typically a mechanism to speed up data access. Memory swapping to the hard drive is designed for an entirely different purpose.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 00:38:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 21 2020 03:41 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dennisk on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:57 am

    I never had one as a kid (I was a C= kid myself) but I'm tempted to
    get an Apple IIc or a IIgs.

    I'd be tempted too to pick up a // or a //c. An Apple /// with the official monitor would be my dream retro computer, however I don't think many survive due to the 100% failure rate! I've never seen one for sale.


    I have seen youtube videos and have read articles about ealry Macs had issues with leaky cmos batteries and bad capacitors, and the electrolytes would destroy traces on the cicuit boards. One of the common things a new owner of an early Mac needs to do is replace the capacitors. Other than the film capacitors that go bad, tantalum capacitors are very sensitive and could
    burst if they hadn't had used in a long time.

    Amigas tend to be good retro pc's because they still have an active support community and plenty of modern peripherals exist to retrofit older SCSI
    drives and other items such as memory boards. An IDE interface that uses CF
    or SD cards saves time looking for floppies that still good.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 00:47:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Tue Jul 21 2020 03:47 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 20 2020 01:26 pm

    Also I still find a desktop PC useful (even though many people these days seem to like using tablets and smartphones, and maybe a laptop).

    I don't really see too many people with desktop PCs in their houses nowadays Back in the 1990s-2000s it would be strange NOT to see a PC tucked away in t livingroom corner, or in a bedroom. Now most folk use laptops for productivi games consoles for gaming and tablets for casual interet browsing, e-mails a Skype.

    Desktops nowadays tend to be used for specific purposes. Unless you have a docking station for a laptop (which for most intents turns the mobile laptop into a non-mobile desktop device) a desktop allows for usage of multiple dispays and other devices that are better off being stationary.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 01:03:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Tue Jul 21 2020 04:00 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 10:19 am

    I'm in agreement about the aesthetics of the late 70s/early 80's computer Those computers were distinctive, and although the form factor is a littl less practical it conveys the message that this is a machine, a tool.

    I did want to use an old XT case to house an AMD 700MHz, but never got around to it. Unfortunately, I lost the case.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I love the early 80s IBM desktop cases, they're so cold, austere and utilitarian - a no nonsense business machine! Such a shame you lost that old case.

    What I recall the most about old IBM systems was the big red/ orange power toggle switch on the side or back of a PC. Server hardware was a bit
    different and had the switch on the front, as well as a big yellow arcade console style reset buttons. Once I had the opportunity to salvage an RS6000 cabinet, and thought it would be cool to hide a media pc, stereo receiver and
    a mini-fridge inside it. Even when gutted, it wouldn't been too much a
    hassle to get it into the house.

    I have a few general XT/AT clone cases with 2 digit clocks and Turbo buttons sitting around, but they're not as iconic as the older IBM desktops or even the newer PS/2 cases.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thursday, July 23, 2020 01:13:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Dreamer on Tue Jul 21 2020 09:58 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Dennisk on Tue Jul 21 2020 02:23 pm

    A few weeks ago, I was looking at how much memory Windows 10 and the various apps I had were using. I had two chat programs, Teams, Outlook, and music streaming. Maybe a browser tab was open on Facebook or something. I think it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or other that specializes in minimalism, and set up t same exact environment. I had Freelook, Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC. I think I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit operating system).

    I've heard people say Windows uses RAM for caching, and that argument also s

    Nightfox

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the hard
    drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved by d isbaling that feature, deleting the swap file, then re-enabling it. I recall a company sold a ram disk card that could be configured to act as storage of the swap file.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dreamer on Thursday, July 23, 2020 01:29:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to The Lizard Master on Tue Jul 21 2020 08:40 pm

    The Lizard Master wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:56 am

    I think the nostalgic interest comes with when you first had that
    "holy crap" moment, when you can't believe you could do this. I can
    think of several - connecting to a BBS for the first time, the first
    time I telnetted to a system in a different time zone, and the first
    time I set up a web server.

    One of my first calls was to a local board called the "White House." It had an ansi of the white house and everthing.

    I literally thought I was connecting to the white house. That was a euphoric feeling, even if somewhat incorrect hah!

    Before I found some local phone numbers, I used some national numbers
    out of a library book on BBSes. There were a number of state and federal government numbers you could call for public information. Just like today, the most interesting was NASA. The least interesting were all in the executive branch.


    Back in the 80's I used to subscribe to Electronic Games magazine, and when
    the publisher or creators shut it down, I had to pick another magazine to replace it. I chose Modern Computing (which also eventually ceased
    publishing) but during thee time I subscribed to it, they threw in a thick book
    about "online" services, and the back of the book was a phone directory
    similar to what you mentioned. I was a teen at the time, and long distance calls were out of the question. I didn't buy a modem until after I graduated junior college and bought a freshly built 486 from a co-worker that needed
    the money for a new truck. Regardless, I read all about all the wonderful
    that was online, and fantasized about all the cool stuff I could do over the modem.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 23, 2020 01:46:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dreamer on Wed Jul 22 2020 08:33 am


    That's dissapointing. I'd hope they'd support open formats like
    the formats supported by OpenOffice/Libreoffice.




    It doesn't surprise me that MS Office and it formats would be the default formats used by a college or other institution that receives deep discounted software for being a learning institution and for student discounts. Windows 95 in conjunction with the MS Office suite killed off several alternatives
    such as the Lotus Suite and well favored proigrams such as Wordperfect. WP
    had been the preferred choice for conducting business with federal agencies
    and any documentation they would receive into their systems. I worked in IT
    at a nuclear power plant in the early 2000's and the procedure writers still insisted on editing older documents with WordPerfect 5 to retain proper structure and legibility.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 01:57:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 07:43 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 04:52 pm

    I had heard about networked computers. And I noticed the IPX/SPX network options in DOS games, so I knew you could play networked PC games. I fir started using the internet in 1995, and it was one of those things I thou was amazing - So much stuff was easily accessible. One thing was that on BBSes back then, I often liked to download PC games and utilities from BBSes, and on the internet, it was a lot easier to find the latest versio of software. On BBSes, sometimes it was hard to know if what you had downloaded was the newest version or not, as sometimes a file wouldn't spread to all BBSes in your area.

    As far as PC gaming, I soon learned about Kali, which was a program that allowed IPX/SPX networked games to be played over TCP/IP on the internet. enjoyed playing DOS games that way (Descent, Descent 2, Warcraft 2, etc.)

    Nightfox

    I had 2 PCs back in the early 2000s, mine and my dad's. I had a LAN and ofte played games with friends who were over. Games such as Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 were a blast over a zero latency network.


    Two of my friends that lived next to each other had run a coax ethernet cable across the lawn so they could game and transfer files. It also cool because one ran a BBS, and I could chat with him and the neighbor, even though he had one phone line dedicated to the BBS. I sort of recall the line running from the house to the clothes line between the houses, then to the other house.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 02:11:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Jul 22 2020 07:48 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 10:14 am

    I'm really annoyed about it too. I either left it behind at a rental property somehow, or my parents threw it out of the garage, not sure whic Odd thing is, I still have the monitor, the keyboard and the motherboard addon cards (all still work, though not 100% sure about the keyboard). L I saw it was over 10 years ago...

    Perhaps you'd be able to get your hands on a replia case one day so you can rebuild the machine. The iconic IBM PC XT - Model 5160 case is the most gorg desktop case I've come across. Wish I could assemble a modern-retro build, w up to date hardware components - I do miss the old desktop cases, always preferred them over the towers.

    Recently I seen a replica of an SX-64 portable based on a Raspberry Pi.
    These case was all 3d printed and a 4:3 lcd was used to match the
    proportions. I would like to do something similar making a copy of my
    Compaq Portable II. In order to get a keyboard to lock into the case as a "bottom" when carried, I figure I'll gut a modern keyboard and place it into
    a custom chassis. Other than 3d printing, I wonder if I can heat form Kydex
    to make the plastic shell?

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 21:29:00
    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Tue Jul 21 2020 04:00 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 21 2020 10:19 am

    I'm in agreement about the aesthetics of the late 70s/early 80's computer Those computers were distinctive, and although the form factor is a littl less practical it conveys the message that this is a machine, a tool.

    I did want to use an old XT case to house an AMD 700MHz, but never got around to it. Unfortunately, I lost the case.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I love the early 80s IBM desktop cases, they're so cold, austere and utilitarian - a no nonsense business machine! Such a shame you lost that old case.

    What I recall the most about old IBM systems was the big red/ orange
    power toggle switch on the side or back of a PC. Server hardware was a bit different and had the switch on the front, as well as a big yellow arcade console style reset buttons. Once I had the opportunity to
    salvage an RS6000 cabinet, and thought it would be cool to hide a media pc, stereo receiver and a mini-fridge inside it. Even when gutted, it wouldn't been too much a hassle to get it into the house.

    I have a few general XT/AT clone cases with 2 digit clocks and Turbo buttons sitting around, but they're not as iconic as the older IBM desktops or even the newer PS/2 cases.

    I have a 486 which has red switch like that on the side. The case looks old, so I think the original owner updated the parts inside.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Warpslide@VERT/NRBBS to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:44:00
    On 23 Jul 2020, Moondog said the following...

    What I recall the most about old IBM systems was the big red/ orange power toggle switch on the side or back of a PC.

    I remember those power switches. They gave the most satisfying click when
    you switched them on or off.

    Jay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:44:27
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 01:13 am

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved

    Windows still does that, as far as I know.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 11:54:34
    I don't really see too many people with desktop PCs in their houses nowadays. Back in the 1990s-2000s it would be strange NOT to see a PC tucked away in the
    livingroom corner, or in a bedroom. Now most folk use laptops for productivity,
    games consoles for gaming and tablets for casual interet browsing, e-mails and
    Skype.

    What I see something is laptop "permanently" setup, why pick a laptop?

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dreamer on Thursday, July 23, 2020 07:14:00
    Dreamer wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I agree. I thought about dropping the database class, as I'm steering
    the program more towards coding than management, but I found at at the last minute that my department's business degree uses the class. Access
    is great for the business side, so it stays. I did change the book from pure skills- based to much more concepts-based. We'll see how that
    goes.

    As long as Access is used as a teaching tool and the caveats are
    taught, I think it has a place. Access is like Filemaker in that it's
    easy to create a solution for a business problem, but as soon as it
    grows, it fails to scale. SQL is a better solution in most cases for
    production use, but it's significantly more complex.

    I've found 90% of my students have ZERO incoming knowledge of
    computers. Like, they struggle with the intro PC OS class, and they
    have trouble passing the intro programming class. Apparently, the fundamentals aren't taught in public school anymore like they were in
    the 80's and 90's. I'm actually putting in a mandatory computer
    literacy class for new students. Sigh.

    I took a "computer problem solving" class in high school, but this
    was a long time ago. The curriculum mostly revolved around learning
    programmatic thinking and using BASIC.

    All we learned with the OS were the command line basics - list a
    directory, load a file, rename a file, delete a file.




    So, at the moment, I have to be careful and "hold the hand" of each student. Lessons tend to be very guided. When I tried doing a more
    flipped classroom concept, it was a disaster and very stressful for
    both me and students.

    something. I think it was consuming 7.5GB. So, on a lark, I downloaded some Linux distro or other that specializes in minimalism, and set up
    the same exact environment. I had Freelook, Teams, same two chats, and even better streaming using VLC. I think I might have been using around 2GB memory (also still on a 64-bit operating system).

    Linux should support NTFS out of the box now, yes? Might be an
    interesting project for any of us running Windows.

    Apparently so. I can't remember ever having issues with NTFS. In the
    early days, like mid-nineties, it may have been read-only; certainly
    for a while it was recommended to not do anything "important" with the NTFS mounts, but at some point I stopped seeing those warnings.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    Synchronet Beaumont Software Dev -
    bbs.beaumont.software

    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 07:20:00
    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It doesn't surprise me that MS Office and it formats would be the
    default formats used by a college or other institution that receives
    deep discounted software for being a learning institution and for
    student discounts.

    I worked at a bookstore on campus, which is why I used Microsoft
    Quick C instead of Borland Turbo C for that same reason. The costs
    were comparable, but Microsoft, while behind Apple, had a team
    marketing to academic customers, more than Borland.

    Windows 95 in conjunction with the MS Office suite
    killed off several alternatives such as the Lotus Suite and well
    favored proigrams such as Wordperfect.

    I used both, and while they had comparable backing and market share,
    both relied on momentum and selling to their existing customers. No
    one who hadn't used WordPerfect went out and bought a copy of it...

    1-2-3 for Windows and WordPerfect for Windows were horrible programs,
    IMO.

    Office95 was a decent package that felt tied together, did what
    people needed, and looked slick for the time. And, yes, they bundled
    the crap out of it and killed the market. But it was ripe for the
    picking.




    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dennisk on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:30:00
    Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I'm hoping to be able to find one which is at a recyclers or second
    hand store or in storage somewhere, or maybe, by some miracle, mine
    will be found. It is a nice case, I liked it back then in 1993, and
    still do now. That is why I took the internals out to try and put a
    new PC in it. The problem was the differing form factors, and I didn't want to start drilling into it.

    The trick is to find a beige keyboard (IBM Model M, of course), beige
    mouse (Microsoft intellimouse would do nicely) and a beige monitor.
    The monitor would be the hard part.

    Oh, to find a 17" CRT case and put an LCD monitor inside of it. I've
    seen people using old Mac Plus computer cases as glorified iPad
    stands...





    ... Be extravagant
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:33:00
    Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I think Mac OS (or 'system' as it was called back then) would look a
    bit weird on a green screen. Although it was odd to see new computers
    in the early 90s being made with black & white screens, I tend to think
    of that as the classic Mac look on those old Macs.

    I've seen an amber screen in a Mac Plus. I kind of liked it.

    I don't know what it was about those old Macs - maybe just because we
    weren't used to a white screen - but I used to get bad raster burn
    after a day on a Mac - burn-y, squinty eyes.

    Working on a green screen 14" CRT all day and night, no problem.

    I've often thought it would be interesting to see a Mac Color Classic. I've never actually seen one of those in person.

    They never looked right - it was like seeing a color Palm PDA for the
    first time.


    ... Retrace your steps
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:38:00
    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Desktops nowadays tend to be used for specific purposes. Unless you
    have a docking station for a laptop (which for most intents turns the mobile laptop into a non-mobile desktop device) a desktop allows for
    usage of multiple dispays and other devices that are better off being stationary.

    Docks are getting pretty good with Windows, though - I'm looking at
    decking out my new office as an office hotel because of Covid. I'm
    sure we're not going to be able to go back in any full capacity, and
    the design doesn't allow for social distancing.

    We're probably going to end up with 1/3 to 1/2 of the seats filled,
    and need to blend WFH with coming into the office. We have enough
    collaboration tools and have proven that remote work is effective
    over the past few months.

    I'm imagining me setting up a reservation calendar on our intranet,
    and you reserve a seat. No more available seats? Work from home.

    I'll deck out each space with a USB-C dock, keyboard, mouse and 2
    monitors, and people can sit down, wipe the space down, plug in and
    get to work anywhere.





    ... Take away the elements in order of apparent non-importance
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:43:00
    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I have a few general XT/AT clone cases with 2 digit clocks and Turbo buttons sitting around, but they're not as iconic as the older IBM desktops or even the newer PS/2 cases.

    I loved the AT case, but my sentimental favorite was the PS/2 model
    80. Big, heavy floor tower case.

    I took a job in local government in 2017, and on the first day went
    into my server room, which had been an old IBM shop. Looked at the
    last AS/400 still chugging away, and behind it, an IBM PS/2 model 80,
    8514 VGA monitor, Model M keyboard, and an IBM 4019 laser printer -
    the same iron I started my career with 25+ years ago!

    My predecessor was a pack rat, and my boss told me that shortly
    before I'd arrived, they'd recycled pallets of old ATs and PS/2s to
    try and get the place in shape for me. I wept.



    ... Shut the door and listen from outside
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:45:00
    Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the
    hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved by d isbaling that feature, deleting the swap file, then re-enabling it. I recall a company sold a ram disk card that could be configured to act as storage of the swap file.

    Oh, the things we did when memory was measured in megabytes. ISA
    memory cards barely faster than disk, RAM disks in EMS memory...



    ... Spectrum analysis
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 23, 2020 11:05:20
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dreamer on Wed Jul 22 2020 08:35 am

    Dreamer wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I used to swear I would always have at least a desktop PC, but with how powerful computers are getting, I'm beginning to appreciate having something in a small form factor.

    The only thing I need a desktop for is War Thunder. For anything
    except games, a laptop would do the trick nicely.


    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.

    I think *need* is too much of an strong word when it comes to domestic computers.

    I don't *need* a Cold Steel Laredo Bowie knife, because I can cut stuff with a crappy cheapo machete worth 20 dollar instead. It is just that high end knives work better.

    I don‡'t *need* a workstation, because I can write stories in a notebook or a laptop. It is just that a workstation works better (bigger screen, easier to upgrade components, etc).


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 11:14:46
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Jul 22 2020 07:58 pm

    I think desktops have had their time. These days it's mostly gamers in the 18-30 category who are into PC games who own desktops. Regular folk have no interest in using up a ridiculous amount of space on a system whose functionality can be ported over to a small tablet. I don't even have a desk anymore and find web-surfing much smoother and more enjoyable on my iPad.

    Please, try porting a REAL building collapse simulator to a tablet, then simulate the collapse of a stadium.

    Besides, young adult gamers are no tiny demographic by any means. If it was the only remaining niche for desktop computers, I'd say desktop computers have a long way to go.

    For the record, at job we deploy workstations only because they are cheaper in the long run, can be upgraded easily, and are much more comfortable to work with if somebody has to spend 6 hours at the screen.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to HSM on Thursday, July 23, 2020 15:43:32
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: HSM to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 03:47 pm

    Not sure where you are from, but I don't know anyone that doesn't have a PC in addition to a laptop, console and a smart phone and/or tablet. Most households have multiple devices.

    -=- Gary aka HSM -=-
    -=TheFreeSpeak.com=-

    I work in an occupation which requires me to go into a lot of households and I see VERY few desktop PCs. Loads of laptops, tablets and mobile phones, but actual desktops are RARE. I think people who have desktops that become obsolete over time just chuck them out and replace them with iPads and Android Samsung tablets... they're even more popualar than laptops these days. I live in the UK.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Thursday, July 23, 2020 15:49:45
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Wed Jul 22 2020 05:39 pm

    I didn't spend to much time with my XT case on the desk (and all
    subsequent pc models) ..and found the first opportunity to place it on its side in a cradle beside the desk. Out of sight, and reclaim desktop space was best for me.

    Back then you couldn't reclaim any real space because you had a massive CRT monitor to contend with... I always thought it sensible to stick the PC under the monitor to maximise desk space. I also prefer the look of desktop computers from an aesthetic point of view though. No one wants a desktop style computer now as towers can be hidden away or placed on their sides and LCDs take up little room. I'd still prefer to have a full on desktop style case like before if I still had a traditional computer setup today.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Thursday, July 23, 2020 15:57:30
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 09:32 am

    I'm hoping to be able to find one which is at a recyclers or second hand store or in storage somewhere, or maybe, by some miracle, mine will be found. It is a nice case, I liked it back then in 1993, and still do now. That is why I took the internals out to try and put a new PC in it. The problem was the differing form factors, and I didn't want to start drilling into it.

    I don't go for minimalism at all, not in machines or devices or rooms or decorations. I've seen monitors which took "minimalism" so far, they didn't even have a visible on-off button! I don't know when it became taboo to have labels and buttons and indicators as to what the tiny LEDS actually mean, but it is a dumb taboo.

    I saw a video by retro computer YouTuber LGR where he purchased a brand new old stock IBM 5170. He said that there was a seller who had a large quantity of untouched & unsold IBM systems from the 80s. I have no idea what he purchased his new computer for but I thought it was pretty cool that there exists new old stock from around 35 years ago.

    I don't mind minimalism if it's carried out tastefully. Apple products are gorgous whether it's their phones, laptops, tablets, desktops or all-in-ones... so I can abide by the design philosophy when it's pulled off correctly.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Thursday, July 23, 2020 16:09:55
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 09:41 am

    Some of the functionality, not all. For many, the functionality that is ported is enough though. "Devices" are really a subset of the full functionality of a proper computer, a subset which does fit most peoples needs.

    As long as I can still get a propert desktop, its fine.

    I would say laptops are as functional as desktops these days. My 2018 Zephyrus GX501 with a GTX1080 Max-Q is very capable. I can run any triple A title on ultra/high and achieve 60+fps at 1080p. Obviously if 4K gaming is what you're after, a PC would still be required, but you really don't need to go as high as that on a 15" or 17" monitor.

    The scope of people absolutely requiring a desktop PC is narrowing by the day. Heavy 4K video editing, CAD, gaming enthusiasts who really must play in 4K ultra... etc, are really the only folk who need a desktop.

    I suppose if your a budget gamer, you could save money by purchasing a lesser PC at a cheaper price than an equivalent laptop, however the majority of the public then take things a step further by settling for a console.

    I have nothing against desktop PCs, I still believe they have their place... however, it's very clear that they are becoming more and more marginalised in this day and age.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Thursday, July 23, 2020 16:17:11
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 09:33 pm

    I think Mac OS (or 'system' as it was called back then) would look a bit weird on a green screen. Although it was odd to see new computers in the early 90s being made with black & white screens, I tend to think of that as the classic Mac look on those old Macs.

    I've often thought it would be interesting to see a Mac Color Classic. I've never actually seen one of those in person.


    I agree, any GUI would look pretty strange on a monochrome green screen. I love the Apple //c monitor which was green... I believe the absolutely stunning Apple monitor /// which came out for the Apple /// was monochrome green too.

    I have never seen a Macintosh Colour Classic with my own eyes either. I am not the biggest fan of the style, it looks more like a small puppy dog with stumpy legs. I prefer the original Mac 128K and 512K look, albeit the SE was quite the looker too.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 16:26:48
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 12:38 am

    I have seen youtube videos and have read articles about ealry Macs had issues with leaky cmos batteries and bad capacitors, and the electrolytes would destroy traces on the cicuit boards. One of the common things a new owner of an early Mac needs to do is replace the capacitors. Other than the film capacitors that go bad, tantalum capacitors are very sensitive and could
    burst if they hadn't had used in a long time.

    Amigas tend to be good retro pc's because they still have an active support community and plenty of modern peripherals exist to retrofit older SCSI drives and other items such as memory boards. An IDE interface that uses CF or SD cards saves time looking for floppies that still good.

    The Macintosh 128K, 512K and Plus models are generally fine. They PRAM batteries were located and accessible from the back so most resonsible owners remove the batteries before placing their computers into storage. My model that I am typing on now is a 128K that's been officially upgraded to a Plus. The guy I purchased it from replaced all the capacitors as, at this age, they'll need replaced even if the system is still working. The Macintosh SE/SE30/Classic/Classic II and Colour Classic have their CMOS batteries on the motherboard so a huge number of them ended up exploding and corroding the board, rendering them unfixable.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 16:31:55
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 12:47 am

    Desktops nowadays tend to be used for specific purposes. Unless you have a docking station for a laptop (which for most intents turns the mobile laptop into a non-mobile desktop device) a desktop allows for usage of multiple dispays and other devices that are better off being stationary.

    Desktops are more niche now as they require a specific use case for the majority of the time. For the average member of the public who is only interested in Skype, IMs, YouTube, Netflix, web-browing and online shopping apps such as eBay, tablets and cheap laptops are more suitable. Most folk don't want a big hunk of metal taking up space in their living rooms or bedrooms.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 16:37:31
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 01:57 am

    Two of my friends that lived next to each other had run a coax ethernet cable across the lawn so they could game and transfer files. It also cool because one ran a BBS, and I could chat with him and the neighbor, even though he had one phone line dedicated to the BBS. I sort of recall the line running from the house to the clothes line between the houses, then to the other house.

    Haha, that's a great setup. I am glad no one went over the cable on a ride on lawnmower!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 16:43:45
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 02:11 am

    Recently I seen a replica of an SX-64 portable based on a Raspberry Pi. These case was all 3d printed and a 4:3 lcd was used to match the proportions. I would like to do something similar making a copy of my Compaq Portable II. In order to get a keyboard to lock into the case as a "bottom" when carried, I figure I'll gut a modern keyboard and place it into a custom chassis. Other than 3d printing, I wonder if I can heat form Kydex to make the plastic shell?

    I'd really like to see people 3D print classic cases with modern inserts/modules etc.., that way we could see older looking computers performing to today's standard.

    I recall someone on here with a Compaq Portable II. I like the design of the Portable II, SX-64 and Apple Lisa... the screen is too small to stare at for any length of time but the system itself appears very collectable.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 17:40:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Thursday 23.07.20 - 10:49, andeddu wrote to Ogg:

    I didn't spend to much time with my XT case on the desk (and all
    subsequent pc models) ..and found the first opportunity to place it on its >> side in a cradle beside the desk. Out of sight, and reclaim desktop space >> was best for me.

    Back then you couldn't reclaim any real space because you had a massive CRT monitor to contend with... I always thought it sensible to stick the PC
    under the monitor to maximise desk space.

    The pc boxes were always wider and deeper than any of the monitors I
    worked with. I didn't like a monitor sitting on top of the pc case; often that was too high as well. Placing the monitor on a maximum 4" high plinth/riser (with room to keep some papers undereath) was much better. I really liked the look of just a monitor and a keyboard on the desk
    surface. When the monitor was strategically placed in the far corner of a desk, turned back at about 45º, the long part (electron gun/beam section) would fit very nicely when parked in a corner - you could reclaim quite a
    bit of the desk surface.


    I also prefer the look of desktop computersfrom an aesthetic point of
    view though. No one wants a desktop style computer now as towers can be hidden away or placed on their sides and LCDs take up little room. I'd
    still prefer to have a full on desktop style case like before if I still
    had a traditional computer setup today.

    The all-in-ones appeal to me, as do the minibox designs of "desktop"
    boxes. Those I can handle on a desk surface if I had to. But the old XT
    box on a desk, no thanks.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Thursday, July 23, 2020 17:51:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Thursday 23.07.20 - 11:09, andeddu wrote to Dennisk:

    The scope of people absolutely requiring a desktop PC is narrowing by the day. Heavy 4K video editing, CAD, gaming enthusiasts who really must play in 4K ultra... etc, are really the only folk who need a desktop.

    There won't be a shortage of people who need to work with documents and control systems.

    Today, people have so many pc formats to choose from to suit their application. Desktops were once the only choice for anything to do with a computer. At home, most people used their pcs for entertainment. Now, entertainment can be achieved with tablets and laptops and casting to a
    large LCD screen if necessary.


    I have nothing against desktop PCs, I still believe they have their place... however, it's very clear that they are becoming more and more marginalised
    in this day and age.

    Marginalized from people who need a pc for entertainment. But for real
    work, a dedicated pc box and a separate monitor still has a good life.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, July 24, 2020 10:01:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I'm hoping to be able to find one which is at a recyclers or second
    hand store or in storage somewhere, or maybe, by some miracle, mine
    will be found. It is a nice case, I liked it back then in 1993, and
    still do now. That is why I took the internals out to try and put a
    new PC in it. The problem was the differing form factors, and I didn't want to start drilling into it.

    The trick is to find a beige keyboard (IBM Model M, of course), beige
    mouse (Microsoft intellimouse would do nicely) and a beige monitor.
    The monitor would be the hard part.

    Oh, to find a 17" CRT case and put an LCD monitor inside of it. I've
    seen people using old Mac Plus computer cases as glorified iPad
    stands...
    I have a 17 inch CRT, no need to gut it. Just use the CRT instead.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 24, 2020 10:15:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 09:32 am

    I'm hoping to be able to find one which is at a recyclers or second hand store or in storage somewhere, or maybe, by some miracle, mine will be found. It is a nice case, I liked it back then in 1993, and still do now. That is why I took the internals out to try and put a new PC in it. The problem was the differing form factors, and I didn't want to start drilling into it.

    I don't go for minimalism at all, not in machines or devices or rooms or decorations. I've seen monitors which took "minimalism" so far, they didn't even have a visible on-off button! I don't know when it became taboo to have labels and buttons and indicators as to what the tiny LEDS actually mean, but it is a dumb taboo.

    I saw a video by retro computer YouTuber LGR where he purchased a brand new old stock IBM 5170. He said that there was a seller who had a large quantity of untouched & unsold IBM systems from the 80s. I have no idea what he purchased his new computer for but I thought it was pretty cool that there exists new old stock from around 35 years ago.

    I don't mind minimalism if it's carried out tastefully. Apple products
    are gorgous whether it's their phones, laptops, tablets, desktops or all-in-ones... so I can abide by the design philosophy when it's pulled off correctly.

    Shipping to Australia is the problem here. Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and get them shipped. Obviously for portable devices, I want them smaller and still functional. I do think the Apple desktops look pretty good, and better than pimped out PC's with gratuitous LEDS. I draw the line where usability and functionality is sacrificed, which I've seen here and there.

    If you think about it, the XT case itself is somewhat simpler than many cases that came later (partly due to lack of buttons, etc). Another nice one is the Amstrad PC2386/PC2286. The back of expansion cards faced the side, not the back, making them easier to use, but there was a slide on cover you could put on to hide them if you wanted. Everything well positioned. Monitor and keyboard matched the style.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 24, 2020 10:16:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 09:41 am

    Some of the functionality, not all. For many, the functionality that is ported is enough though. "Devices" are really a subset of the full functionality of a proper computer, a subset which does fit most peoples needs.

    As long as I can still get a propert desktop, its fine.

    I would say laptops are as functional as desktops these days. My 2018 Zephyrus GX501 with a GTX1080 Max-Q is very capable. I can run any
    triple A title on ultra/high and achieve 60+fps at 1080p. Obviously if
    4K gaming is what you're after, a PC would still be required, but you really don't need to go as high as that on a 15" or 17" monitor.

    The scope of people absolutely requiring a desktop PC is narrowing by
    the day. Heavy 4K video editing, CAD, gaming enthusiasts who really
    must play in 4K ultra... etc, are really the only folk who need a
    desktop.

    I suppose if your a budget gamer, you could save money by purchasing a lesser PC at a cheaper price than an equivalent laptop, however the majority of the public then take things a step further by settling for
    a console.

    I have nothing against desktop PCs, I still believe they have their place... however, it's very clear that they are becoming more and more marginalised in this day and age.

    I still have a floppy drive and PC Speaker in my desktop, and two spinning hard drives for BTRFS raid 1. I would have put a 5 1/4 inch drive, if I could fit it.

    So laptops, almost as functional, but not quite ;)

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Arelor on Thursday, July 23, 2020 17:44:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:14 am

    Please, try porting a REAL building collapse simulator to a tablet, then simulate the collapse of a stadium.
    Besides, young adult gamers are no tiny demographic by any means. If it was the only remaining niche for desktop computers, I'd say desktop computers have a long way to go.

    Nobody is saying desktops don't have a place, aren't more useful, or that they're going to disappear tomorrow.

    The observation was just that they're far less common than they used to be, and that's likely to be because the average normie sees no need for one and puts a higher value on organization and/or portability.

    They've simply become more of a niche in the broader computer device market rather than occupying the dominant position they have in the past.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Warpslide@VERT/NRBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 20:46:00
    On 23 Jul 2020, Andeddu said the following...

    I have nothing against desktop PCs, I still believe they have their place. however, it's very clear that they are becoming more and more marginalised this day and age.

    My setup (IMO) is the best of both worlds for my needs. I have a MacBook Pro which I use for everything. I have a thunderbolt docking station for when
    I'm in my home office; One cable instantly connects me to my 32" widescreen monitor, wired ethernet & speakers. The bluetooth keyboard & trackpad are already on the desk so I just need to plug & play.

    This way everything I'm working on is always with me, I don't need to keep track of whats on my desktop or whats on my laptop. If I need (or want) to work on the couch or in the back yard instead of being cooped up inside, I
    just unplug one cable & go.

    Granted this approach may not work for everyone, but for those of us who can pull it off, it offers great flexibility.


    This YouTuber recently made a video about laptop docks:

    "Laptop Docks! They're pretty neat!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc31L3zJiaU


    I love the opening lines of his video:

    "The comments on this one are going to be a doozy..."

    "Hello There! Did you know that some people work differently than you do? Weird right?"


    Jay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 23, 2020 19:04:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:43 am

    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I have a few general XT/AT clone cases with 2 digit clocks and Turbo buttons sitting around, but they're not as iconic as the older IBM desktops or even the newer PS/2 cases.

    I loved the AT case, but my sentimental favorite was the PS/2 model
    80. Big, heavy floor tower case.

    I took a job in local government in 2017, and on the first day went
    into my server room, which had been an old IBM shop. Looked at the
    last AS/400 still chugging away, and behind it, an IBM PS/2 model 80,
    8514 VGA monitor, Model M keyboard, and an IBM 4019 laser printer -
    the same iron I started my career with 25+ years ago!

    My predecessor was a pack rat, and my boss told me that shortly
    before I'd arrived, they'd recycled pallets of old ATs and PS/2s to
    try and get the place in shape for me. I wept.



    ... Shut the door and listen from outside

    Five years ago I was applying for a job at a school, and the online
    application informed me I'll have to bring sealed records from the college I attended. This was probably intended more for teachers and counsellors, but
    I went back and retrieved a couple of copies. When I went to the records department, they asked for a student number. I never recalled having one.
    She asked which year I graduated, and when I said 1990, she groaned and
    mutered something about the "old" system, and dug up instructions on how to
    to use the terminal emulator program on her desktop. When I was there, the "Old" system was brand new! It was an AS400. 20 years ago AS400's were
    still pretty common, as were terminals out on the factory floor.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Thursday, July 23, 2020 19:07:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:05 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dreamer on Wed Jul 22 2020 08:35 am

    Dreamer wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I used to swear I would always have at least a desktop PC, but with powerful computers are getting, I'm beginning to appreciate having something in a small form factor.

    The only thing I need a desktop for is War Thunder. For anything
    except games, a laptop would do the trick nicely.


    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.

    I think *need* is too much of an strong word when it comes to domestic computers.

    I don't *need* a Cold Steel Laredo Bowie knife, because I can cut stuff with crappy cheapo machete worth 20 dollar instead. It is just that high end kniv work better.

    I don‡'t *need* a workstation, because I can write stories in a notebook or laptop. It is just that a workstation works better (bigger screen, easier to upgrade components, etc).


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es


    Still nice to know you can stab a knife through a car fender, and it would still be sharp enough to safely shave with it afterwards.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to MRO on Thursday, July 23, 2020 14:33:00
    MRO wrote to all <=-

    god i hate that lunduke guy. he's full of shit and annoying.
    fucking poser too.

    His shtick is a cross between comedy, tech news, and retro blog.
    And he tends to go all in on the comedy and opinion. I can see how
    it can be annoying.



    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 14:39:00
    Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Dreamer on Tue Jul 21 2020 09:58 pm

    I've heard people say Windows uses RAM for caching, and that argument also s

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the
    hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved by d isbaling that feature, deleting the swap file, then re-enabling it. I recall a company sold a ram disk card that could be configured to act as storage of the swap file.

    Yep, it's still there. Windows got a lot better at memory management for a while there, so I would not be surprised if most users don't know anything about virtual memory.



    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 14:42:00
    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Desktops nowadays tend to be used for specific purposes. Unless you
    have a docking station for a laptop (which for most intents turns the mobile laptop into a non-mobile desktop device) a desktop allows for
    usage of multiple dispays and other devices that are better off being stationary.

    A cheap docking solution is to simply plug in a keyboard, mouse, and the external monitor. They also sell docking adapters where you only plug in one
    or two wires and you get a complete set of docked ports (video, audio,
    network, keyboard, mouse, etc).

    You no longer need a proprietary docking solution.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Ennev on Thursday, July 23, 2020 14:51:00
    Ennev wrote to Andeddu <=-

    What I see something is laptop "permanently" setup, why pick a laptop?

    A couple reasons off the top of my head is the choice for portability and ease of
    setup.

    My mother couldn't set the time on the VCR back in the day, and still gets lost trying to work a modern television. Given the choice, she picked a laptop for her computer, so that she would at least have the choice to use it at the kitchen table (more room to spread out bills) or the office desk. Also, even though she didn't say it, knowing her she's scared of all the wires and feels more comfortable with the "appliance" nature of a laptop.

    In the end, the laptop pretty much stays on her desk.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 23, 2020 15:03:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dreamer <=-

    I took a "computer problem solving" class in high school, but this
    was a long time ago. The curriculum mostly revolved around learning
    programmatic thinking and using BASIC.

    All we learned with the OS were the command line basics - list a
    directory, load a file, rename a file, delete a file.

    I've met students who can't do those things in a GUI. Seriously.

    In middle school, we had computer literacy which I *think* was a year
    long class. I could be wrong. However, it was required, and I distinctly remember the first half of it being a history of computing and an
    overview of the PC architecture, and how binary and data addressing
    worked. The other half was learning BASIC with GW BASIC. I think we
    pretty much just learned syntax.

    In high school, we were also required to take a course called computer
    math. For this one, we used QBASIC, and it was a true problem solving
    course. It had a huge focus on business math. The next year you could
    take computer science, but that was an optional course. In that course,
    we learned Pascal, and we actually got to write more complicated
    programs.

    I was shocked when I started teaching and my students all said there
    was no programming in school anymore. Honestly, most of the stuff I
    teach really just goes back to what I learned in 8th and 9th grade, and
    have been practicing ever since.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thursday, July 23, 2020 21:58:58
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Jul 22 2020 10:53 pm


    sounds like a cache to me.

    A cache on a computer is typically a mechanism to speed up data access. Memory swapping to the hard drive is designed for an entirely different purpose.

    in window's case swapping to disk speeds things up too.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 21:59:44
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 01:13 am

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved by d isbaling that feature, deleting the swap file, then re-enabling it. I recall a company sold a ram disk card that could be configured to act as storage of the swap file.


    back in the days? it's still fucking doing it.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 20:49:14
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Thu Jul 23 2020 03:49 pm

    Back then you couldn't reclaim any real space because you had a massive CRT monitor to contend with... I always thought it sensible to stick the PC under the monitor to maximise desk space. I also prefer the look of

    I used to do that, but when tower cases became common, I started using tower cases and I'd put a power center surge protector like this under the monitor:
    www.ebay.com/i/324200569661

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 20:52:12
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Thu Jul 23 2020 03:57 pm

    I don't mind minimalism if it's carried out tastefully. Apple products are gorgous whether it's their phones, laptops, tablets, desktops or all-in-ones... so I can abide by the design philosophy when it's pulled off correctly.

    What do you consider minimalism pulled off correctly? I've often felt like Apple products are too minimalistic. One thing is their computers don't have any front USB ports. Front USB ports make it easy to plug in USB flash drives etc. Otherwise, you have to reach around back or plug in a USB extension cable or USB hub with an extension cable to make the USB ports more accessible.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 20:57:40
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 04:31 pm

    Desktops are more niche now as they require a specific use case for the majority of the time. For the average member of the public who is only interested in Skype, IMs, YouTube, Netflix, web-browing and online shopping apps such as eBay, tablets and cheap laptops are more suitable. Most folk don't want a big hunk of metal taking up space in their living rooms or bedrooms.

    I suppose that might be true.. It seems weird considering laptops would tend to be more expensive than desktops (for equivalent power), so laptops would usually only be considered when you had to take them with you often. I thought that might still be the case, considering they have to cram things into a small space for laptops, but maybe not.

    I was also thinking that one nice thing about a desktop is being able to use a large monitor, but it seems most laptops let you plug in an external monitor. But then it might become awkward about how to position the laptop screen in relation to the monitor, and it might be useful to also use an external keyboard & mouse so you can put the laptop off to the side while you use the external monitor. With a laptop I often like using an external mouse anyway, as I don't really like touchpads.

    I often liked using 17" laptops for the screen size, but it seems many computer makers don't make them that big these days. I know Apple stopped making a 17" MacBook. At home I'm currently using a 27" 4K monitor with my PC, and when I go to a laptop I often have to try to focus better to look at its smaller screen.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 23, 2020 21:33:01
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Thu Jul 23 2020 04:09 pm

    The scope of people absolutely requiring a desktop PC is narrowing by the day. Heavy 4K video editing, CAD, gaming enthusiasts who really must play in 4K ultra... etc, are really the only folk who need a desktop.

    I think video editing in general (including transcoding) and other computational-intensive things (like distributed computing, bitcoin mining, etc.), where the CPU and/or GPU might be near 100% for much of the time, would benefit from a desktop PC case where it can get better cooling than you'd get in a laptop.

    Also, with the decline of optical media for movies & music, I'd think some people would want to set up a media server PC in their home, which might be on a desktop (though I suppose a small form-factor computer or high-end laptop would work for that too).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Nightfox on Thursday, July 23, 2020 23:19:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:57 pm

    I suppose that might be true.. It seems weird considering laptops would tend to be more expensive than desktops (for equivalent power), so laptops

    When a granny friendly laptop can be bought new for $400, the differences are not so huge to be a major concern anymore.

    I often liked using 17" laptops for the screen size, but it seems many computer makers don't make them that big these days. I know Apple stopped

    17" is a bear of a laptop to cart around. 14-15" is a nice balance for viewability and portability. And huge screen real estate isn't a huge consideration for Granny or Timmy who's mainly just watching youtube, browsing facebook and amazon, replying to emails, and maybe opening the occasional office document.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ogg on Thursday, July 23, 2020 22:45:20
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Thu Jul 23 2020 05:51 pm

    Today, people have so many pc formats to choose from to suit their application. Desktops were once the only choice for anything to do with a computer. At home, most people used their pcs for entertainment. Now, entertainment can be achieved with tablets and laptops and casting to a large LCD screen if necessary.

    That's true, and there are many smart TVs on the market that have apps for things like Netflix, Amazon Prime video, YouTube, etc., so you can view that content directly on the TV without the need for another device for casting.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dennisk on Thursday, July 23, 2020 22:47:13
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Jul 24 2020 10:16 am

    I still have a floppy drive and PC Speaker in my desktop, and two spinning hard drives for BTRFS raid 1. I would have put a 5 1/4 inch drive, if I could fit it.

    I'd think a PC speaker is still useful for beep codes in case something is wrong with the PC. Some motherboards have an LED display that can display numeric codes instead, but then you'd have to have a case with a clear side and be able to look inside. With a beep code, if something goes wrong, you can at least hear the beep and not have to look inside the PC for a code.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dreamer on Thursday, July 23, 2020 22:50:54
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 02:42 pm

    A cheap docking solution is to simply plug in a keyboard, mouse, and the external monitor. They also sell docking adapters where you only plug in one or two wires and you get a complete set of docked ports (video, audio, network, keyboard, mouse, etc).

    You no longer need a proprietary docking solution.

    I've heard of that being done over Thunderbolt, which still doesn't seem very common. I think Intel had an agreement with Apple so that only Apple machines had Thunderbolt for a while. But now I think USB-C supports that capability?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dreamer on Thursday, July 23, 2020 22:54:26
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jul 23 2020 03:03 pm

    In middle school, we had computer literacy which I *think* was a year
    long class. I could be wrong. However, it was required, and I distinctly remember the first half of it being a history of computing and an
    overview of the PC architecture, and how binary and data addressing worked. The other half was learning BASIC with GW BASIC. I think we
    pretty much just learned syntax.

    In high school, we were also required to take a course called computer math. For this one, we used QBASIC, and it was a true problem solving course. It had a huge focus on business math. The next year you could
    take computer science, but that was an optional course. In that course,
    we learned Pascal, and we actually got to write more complicated
    programs.

    I was shocked when I started teaching and my students all said there
    was no programming in school anymore. Honestly, most of the stuff I
    teach really just goes back to what I learned in 8th and 9th grade, and have been practicing ever since.

    Interesting.. I was in middle school & high school in the 90s and there weren't any required computer literacy classes - However there were classes such as typing and programming that were electives. I took a programming class in high school (late 90s) and it ended up being with QBASIC.. I was a bit disappointed it wasn't something more modern at the time like C, C++, or even Pascal. I seem to remember one of the books for that class was a BASIC book from the late 70s, if I remember right.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Underminer on Thursday, July 23, 2020 23:03:56
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:19 pm

    I often liked using 17" laptops for the screen size, but it seems
    many computer makers don't make them that big these days. I know
    Apple stopped

    17" is a bear of a laptop to cart around. 14-15" is a nice balance for viewability and portability. And huge screen real estate isn't a huge consideration for Granny or Timmy who's mainly just watching youtube, browsing facebook and amazon, replying to emails, and maybe opening the occasional office document.

    It's good to have options for software developers, photographers/video editors etc. though - people who can really use a bigger screen with the portability of a laptop.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 24, 2020 02:24:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 04:17 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Jul 22 2020 09:33 pm

    I think Mac OS (or 'system' as it was called back then) would look a bit weird on a green screen. Although it was odd to see new computers in the early 90s being made with black & white screens, I tend to think of that the classic Mac look on those old Macs.

    I've often thought it would be interesting to see a Mac Color Classic. I never actually seen one of those in person.


    I agree, any GUI would look pretty strange on a monochrome green screen. I l the Apple //c monitor which was green... I believe the absolutely stunning Apple monitor /// which came out for the Apple /// was monochrome green too.

    I have never seen a Macintosh Colour Classic with my own eyes either. I am n the biggest fan of the style, it looks more like a small puppy dog with stum legs. I prefer the original Mac 128K and 512K look, albeit the SE was quite looker too.

    My Compaq supports CGA graphics, and they show up on the green phosphor
    display the same way colors get grey-scaled on a black and white TV. The
    video mode can be toggled to true monochrome, but I've had no need to try it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 24, 2020 02:30:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 04:26 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 12:38 am

    I have seen youtube videos and have read articles about ealry Macs had issues with leaky cmos batteries and bad capacitors, and the electrolytes would destroy traces on the cicuit boards. One of the common things a ne owner of an early Mac needs to do is replace the capacitors. Other than film capacitors that go bad, tantalum capacitors are very sensitive and could
    burst if they hadn't had used in a long time.

    Amigas tend to be good retro pc's because they still have an active suppo community and plenty of modern peripherals exist to retrofit older SCSI drives and other items such as memory boards. An IDE interface that uses or SD cards saves time looking for floppies that still good.

    The Macintosh 128K, 512K and Plus models are generally fine. They PRAM batteries were located and accessible from the back so most resonsible owner remove the batteries before placing their computers into storage. My model t I am typing on now is a 128K that's been officially upgraded to a Plus. The I purchased it from replaced all the capacitors as, at this age, they'll nee replaced even if the system is still working. The Macintosh SE/SE30/Classic/Classic II and Colour Classic have their CMOS batteries on t motherboard so a huge number of them ended up exploding and corroding the board, rendering them unfixable.


    Even with older pc's I've seen where AA style bios battery wasn't removed and eventually leaked, and some look like they blew up. Lots of vinegar and a
    tiny brass brush or tooth brush can do wonders.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 24, 2020 02:34:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 04:37 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 01:57 am

    Two of my friends that lived next to each other had run a coax ethernet cable across the lawn so they could game and transfer files. It also coo because one ran a BBS, and I could chat with him and the neighbor, even though he had one phone line dedicated to the BBS. I sort of recall the line running from the house to the clothes line between the houses, then the other house.

    Haha, that's a great setup. I am glad no one went over the cable on a ride o lawnmower!

    If a line is temporary or an outdoor line, it can be buried easily by using a flat faced shovel to create a long slit in the ground.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 24, 2020 02:42:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 04:43 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 02:11 am

    Recently I seen a replica of an SX-64 portable based on a Raspberry Pi. These case was all 3d printed and a 4:3 lcd was used to match the proportions. I would like to do something similar making a copy of my Compaq Portable II. In order to get a keyboard to lock into the case as "bottom" when carried, I figure I'll gut a modern keyboard and place it i a custom chassis. Other than 3d printing, I wonder if I can heat form Ky to make the plastic shell?

    I'd really like to see people 3D print classic cases with modern inserts/modules etc.., that way we could see older looking computers perform to today's standard.

    I recall someone on here with a Compaq Portable II. I like the design of the Portable II, SX-64 and Apple Lisa... the screen is too small to stare at for any length of time but the system itself appears very collectable.

    My Portable II has a CGA output and a composite video out. If I were to get mTCP and mTelnet running on it, I'd use an external monitor for prolonged view ing.

    Under the skin, the Portable II is very similar to a desktop case. If
    someone made a copy of the exterior, it wouldn't be too hard to craft a
    generic cage, then drill and mount brackets and stand offs for the boards.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Nightfox on Friday, July 24, 2020 21:00:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Jul 24 2020 10:16 am

    I still have a floppy drive and PC Speaker in my desktop, and two spinning hard drives for BTRFS raid 1. I would have put a 5 1/4 inch drive, if I could fit it.

    I'd think a PC speaker is still useful for beep codes in case something
    is wrong with the PC. Some motherboards have an LED display that can display numeric codes instead, but then you'd have to have a case with
    a clear side and be able to look inside. With a beep code, if
    something goes wrong, you can at least hear the beep and not have to
    look inside the PC for a code.

    I can't let go of the past. The PC isn't complete unless my PC speaker programs work.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Dreamer on Friday, July 24, 2020 21:05:00
    Dreamer wrote to MRO <=-

    MRO wrote to all <=-

    god i hate that lunduke guy. he's full of shit and annoying.
    fucking poser too.

    His shtick is a cross between comedy, tech news, and retro blog.
    And he tends to go all in on the comedy and opinion. I can see how
    it can be annoying.

    Most YouTubers are annoying because they try to overplay personality traits and overly animate their delivery in order to grab attention.

    I prefer a straight delivery, like LGR or Tim Pool.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Friday, July 24, 2020 20:32:00
    On 07-23-20 01:13, Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the
    hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved by d isbaling that feature, deleting the swap file, then

    Actually, the best trick was setting up a permanent swap file, as soon as you finished installing Windows. That way, all the swap data was in more or less the same place on the disk, which improved performance.

    It's less of an issue on modern systems and pretty much a non issue on SSD.


    ... before I make nodelists a paid app.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dennisk on Friday, July 24, 2020 09:17:01
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Dreamer on Fri Jul 24 2020 09:05 pm

    I prefer a straight delivery, like LGR or Tim Pool.

    I discovered LGR a few months ago and enjoy watching his videos. Lots of nostalgia there.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Warpslide on Friday, July 24, 2020 10:42:00
    Warpslide wrote to Andeddu <=-

    This YouTuber recently made a video about laptop docks:

    "Laptop Docks! They're pretty neat!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc31L3zJiaU


    I love the opening lines of his video:

    "The comments on this one are going to be a doozy..."

    "Hello There! Did you know that some people work differently than you
    do? Weird right?"

    Until I saw his video, I didn't know about the "Continuum" feature on the Lumia. At some point, I had an Android phone that did something close. It
    was awesome, if underpowered. It was, basically, a tablet dock. While on
    the road, I would have the phone with me, and when I got home I could slide
    the phone into the slot of the tablet and enjoy a better resolution and
    a bigger combined battery. Unfortunately, they just didn't quite get the
    CPU and memory right, and after a couple OS and app updates, the entire
    thing felt bogged down to me.

    "I thought this could really be a game changer. Of course, it wasn't; not at all. But, it was a really neat idea. And, frankly, if these rumors about
    Apple are true (they are) one has to wonder if iOS, iPadOS, and macOS will eventually merge into one and Apple will reinvent this concept -- and probably get credit for it, too!"

    LOL


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Moondog on Friday, July 24, 2020 10:46:00
    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Five years ago I was applying for a job at a school, and the online application informed me I'll have to bring sealed records from the
    college I attended. This was probably intended more for teachers and counsellors, but I went back and retrieved a couple of copies. When I went to the records department, they asked for a student number. I
    never recalled having one. She asked which year I graduated, and when I said 1990, she groaned and mutered something about the "old" system,
    and dug up instructions on how to to use the terminal emulator program
    on her desktop. When I was there, the "Old" system was brand new! It
    was an AS400. 20 years ago AS400's were still pretty common, as were terminals out on the factory floor.

    Yep, if I'm not mistaken the AS400 was so popular it still exists as a virtualized OS. I briefly considered studying the system and languages,
    but after looking into what that would entail I quickly decided against it.

    I think it's a fine example of vendor lock-in that so many companies are
    forced to virtualize their systems instead of being able to migrate their
    data to newer systems.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:41:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dreamer <=-

    I've heard of that being done over Thunderbolt, which still doesn't
    seem very common. I think Intel had an agreement with Apple so that
    only Apple machines had Thunderbolt for a while. But now I think USB-C supports that capability?

    I dock my Chromebook with USB and HDMI.

    I get my external monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer, ethernet.



    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:43:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dreamer <=-

    Interesting.. I was in middle school & high school in the 90s and
    there weren't any required computer literacy classes - However there
    were classes such as typing and programming that were electives. I
    took a programming class in high school (late 90s) and it ended up
    being with QBASIC.. I was a bit disappointed it wasn't something more modern at the time like C, C++, or even Pascal. I seem to remember one
    of the books for that class was a BASIC book from the late 70s, if I remember right.

    Sounds like you were a few years behind me. I graduated mid-nineties. My required classes would have been around 1992.

    We almost got a C++ class, but no one wanted to learn game programming. I
    was pissed.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dreamer on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:08:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 02:42 pm

    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Desktops nowadays tend to be used for specific purposes. Unless you have a docking station for a laptop (which for most intents turns the mobile laptop into a non-mobile desktop device) a desktop allows for usage of multiple dispays and other devices that are better off being stationary.

    A cheap docking solution is to simply plug in a keyboard, mouse, and the external monitor. They also sell docking adapters where you only plug in one or two wires and you get a complete set of docked ports (video, audio, network, keyboard, mouse, etc).

    You no longer need a proprietary docking solution.


    If you;re limited to to how many USB ports are on a laptop or want to run multiple displays along with the laptop display, you'll need more than what
    the laptop itself offers for ports. Of the laptops I've commonly run into, there's only 3, maybe 4 USB ports. Unless you use Bluetooth, a keyboard, mouse, printer and a thumb drive will take up your ports. i can run one big d isplay and the onboard display, but if I need dual 27" displays to do design work, I need a dock.

    Another advantage of a dock is you don't have to re-plug every device in your laptop or tablet each time. Remove the laptop and leave everything else set up.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:19:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:57 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 04:31 pm

    Desktops are more niche now as they require a specific use case for the majority of the time. For the average member of the public who is only interested in Skype, IMs, YouTube, Netflix, web-browing and online shopping apps such as eBay, tablets and cheap laptops are more suitable Most folk don't want a big hunk of metal taking up space in their livin rooms or bedrooms.

    I suppose that might be true.. It seems weird considering laptops would ten the case, considering they have to cram things into a small space for laptop

    I was also thinking that one nice thing about a desktop is being able to use tor, and it might be useful to also use an external keyboard & mouse so you

    I often liked using 17" laptops for the screen size, but it seems many compu often have to try to focus better to look at its smaller screen.

    Nightfox


    Several manufacturers offer small form factor systems for those who want desktop options without the big case footprint. For a seasoned exntusiast
    the form factor may be limiting, however for the regular user that buys a system and may only upgrade the memory during it's life cycle, it's more than OK. An Intul NUC or Mac Mini are good examples. Mini-ITX systems take up little space. 15 years ago my main gaming - do everything machine was a Shuttle barebones kit. The board, PSU and case sold as a package the size of
    a toaster, and all I had to do was add a cpu, memory, drives and a video
    card. Back then the wattage a PSU that fit the case was 350-400W, however in the years to follow newer CPU's wewre designed to require less power, so it made using an SFF case more convenient.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:21:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 09:33 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Thu Jul 23 2020 04:09 pm

    The scope of people absolutely requiring a desktop PC is narrowing by t day. Heavy 4K video editing, CAD, gaming enthusiasts who really must pl in 4K ultra... etc, are really the only folk who need a desktop.

    I think video editing in general (including transcoding) and other computati here it can get better cooling than you'd get in a laptop.

    Also, with the decline of optical media for movies & music, I'd think some p .

    Nightfox


    Personally, I prefer browsing on a larger monitor than squinting at a 7" screen.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:26:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Dreamer on Fri Jul 24 2020 09:05 pm

    Dreamer wrote to MRO <=-

    MRO wrote to all <=-

    god i hate that lunduke guy. he's full of shit and annoying.
    fucking poser too.

    His shtick is a cross between comedy, tech news, and retro blog.
    And he tends to go all in on the comedy and opinion. I can see how
    it can be annoying.

    Most YouTubers are annoying because they try to overplay personality traits overly animate their delivery in order to grab attention.

    I prefer a straight delivery, like LGR or Tim Pool.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    What is worse is when a Youtuber has very little personality, and their presentation of technical knowledge is less engaging as reading froma
    textbook. I like it when they mark the videos as to when certain events happen. The introduction and anecdotes are where personality ehlps bring in viewers.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:29:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Fri Jul 24 2020 08:32 pm

    On 07-23-20 01:13, Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved by d isbaling that feature, deleting the swap file, then

    Actually, the best trick was setting up a permanent swap file, as soon as yo finished installing Windows. That way, all the swap data was in more or les the same place on the disk, which improved performance.

    It's less of an issue on modern systems and pretty much a non issue on SSD.


    ... before I make nodelists a paid app.

    Drive space is no longer a premium item, and most systems, even the cheap
    ones, have more than enough drive space for using a swap file.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:32:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Dennisk on Fri Jul 24 2020 09:17 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Dreamer on Fri Jul 24 2020 09:05 pm

    I prefer a straight delivery, like LGR or Tim Pool.

    I discovered LGR a few months ago and enjoy watching his videos. Lots of no

    Nightfox

    I like LGR, Retro man cave, 8-bit Guy, Retro Recipes, Jan Beta, and Adrians Digital Basement. Adrian also posts and answers questions over at the
    vintage computing forums, ans there's a nother Youtuber that deals alot with old Pet, but I can't recall his name at this moment.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dreamer on Friday, July 24, 2020 15:40:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Moondog on Fri Jul 24 2020 10:46 am

    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Five years ago I was applying for a job at a school, and the online application informed me I'll have to bring sealed records from the college I attended. This was probably intended more for teachers and counsellors, but I went back and retrieved a couple of copies. When I went to the records department, they asked for a student number. I never recalled having one. She asked which year I graduated, and when I said 1990, she groaned and mutered something about the "old" system, and dug up instructions on how to to use the terminal emulator program on her desktop. When I was there, the "Old" system was brand new! It was an AS400. 20 years ago AS400's were still pretty common, as were terminals out on the factory floor.

    Yep, if I'm not mistaken the AS400 was so popular it still exists as a virtualized OS. I briefly considered studying the system and languages,
    but after looking into what that would entail I quickly decided against it.

    I think it's a fine example of vendor lock-in that so many companies are forced to virtualize their systems instead of being able to migrate their data to newer systems.



    I recall installing terminal emulator programs such as Rumba and Attachmate Extra. Steel mills held on to their VMS systems (DEC Mini-VAX) for a long time. I worked at a place that used DECnet95 protocol until they upgraded their plant process computer around 2011. I didn't get to see them due to
    our department's budget was cut I was the sacrificial lamb, however I heard from former co-workers they pulled out old PDP mainframes with paper tape readers along with a hodge podge of systems from the late 1970's up to the
    late 1990's.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Moondog on Saturday, July 25, 2020 12:04:00
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Dreamer on Fri Jul 24 2020 09:05 pm

    Dreamer wrote to MRO <=-

    MRO wrote to all <=-

    god i hate that lunduke guy. he's full of shit and annoying.
    fucking poser too.

    His shtick is a cross between comedy, tech news, and retro blog.
    And he tends to go all in on the comedy and opinion. I can see how
    it can be annoying.

    Most YouTubers are annoying because they try to overplay personality traits overly animate their delivery in order to grab attention.

    I prefer a straight delivery, like LGR or Tim Pool.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    What is worse is when a Youtuber has very little personality, and their presentation of technical knowledge is less engaging as reading froma textbook. I like it when they mark the videos as to when certain
    events happen. The introduction and anecdotes are where personality
    ehlps bring in viewers.

    Yes, I've seen some which don't seem interested or enthusiastic. One of the best presenters I've seen, though not a YouTuber is Julius Sumner Miller. Not only does he know what he is talking about, he has a relaxed approach and is engaging, and most of all, natural.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dreamer on Friday, July 24, 2020 21:05:50
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Fri Jul 24 2020 03:43 pm

    Interesting.. I was in middle school & high school in the 90s and
    there weren't any required computer literacy classes - However there
    were classes such as typing and programming that were electives. I
    took a programming class in high school (late 90s) and it ended up
    being with QBASIC.. I was a bit disappointed it wasn't something

    Sounds like you were a few years behind me. I graduated mid-nineties. My required classes would have been around 1992.

    Yeah, I graduated high school in 1998.

    We almost got a C++ class, but no one wanted to learn game programming. I was pissed.

    I know you can program games in C++, but what does that have to do with whether they offer a C++ class? You can do more than just games with C++.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Friday, July 24, 2020 21:08:38
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri Jul 24 2020 03:19 pm

    Several manufacturers offer small form factor systems for those who want desktop options without the big case footprint. For a seasoned exntusiast the form factor may be limiting, however for the regular user that buys a system and may only upgrade the memory during it's life cycle, it's more than OK. An Intul NUC or Mac Mini are good examples. Mini-ITX systems take

    I've considered possibly buying an Intel NUC for my BBS/Plex server machine. One thing about the NUCs is that you can mount them on the back of a monitor, though you'd need a monitor with a vesa mount.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Friday, July 24, 2020 21:09:03
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri Jul 24 2020 03:21 pm

    Personally, I prefer browsing on a larger monitor than squinting at a 7" screen.

    I do too.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Friday, July 24, 2020 21:15:03
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Vk3jed on Fri Jul 24 2020 03:29 pm

    Drive space is no longer a premium item, and most systems, even the cheap ones, have more than enough drive space for using a swap file.

    Also it seems RAM is a lot cheaper these days than it used to be a long time ago, so you're more likely these days to have plenty of RAM and not need to swap to the hard drive at all.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Friday, July 24, 2020 06:50:00
    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    When I was there, the "Old" system was brand new! It
    was an AS400. 20 years ago AS400's were still pretty common, as were terminals out on the factory floor.

    Those things just keep chugging along, crunching numbers. I'm pretty
    sure they can run containerized AI/X, a DB2 database, and OS/400 at
    the same time and let you run your business apps, house your data and
    be a web front end at the same time.

    They've changed names and lines several times, I think they were
    called System i at one point, and now something else.




    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Moondog on Friday, July 24, 2020 23:47:00
    I like LGR, Retro man cave, 8-bit Guy, Retro Recipes, Jan Beta, and Adrians Digital Basement. Adrian also posts and answers questions over
    at the vintage computing forums, ans there's a nother Youtuber that
    deals alot with old Pet, but I can't recall his name at this moment.

    I forever got LGR and 8-bit guy mixed up for some reason.. then in an LGR
    video after covid, he was talking about his 'long hair' because he hadn't had
    a cut in a while - I was like WTF, it IS the same guy??!

    Just recently I came to my senses.... sheesh.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
    |08.........
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Saturday, July 25, 2020 18:22:00
    On 07-24-20 15:29, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Drive space is no longer a premium item, and most systems, even the
    cheap ones, have more than enough drive space for using a swap file.

    I was talking more about the speed of access, rather than diskspace. In the old days on FAT16, fragmentation used to really hurt swap file performance. Modern filesystems and faster disks have helped, but SSD is even better in that regard.


    ... Hardware hackers DO IT with maximum ratings.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Moondog on Saturday, July 25, 2020 06:56:48
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Dreamer on Fri Jul 24 2020 15:08:00


    Of the laptops I've commonly run into, there's only 3, maybe 4 USB
    ports.

    yep...

    Unless you use Bluetooth, a keyboard, mouse, printer and a thumb
    drive will take up your ports.

    does no one know about or use USB hubs any more? ;)


    )\/(ark

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    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Underminer on Saturday, July 25, 2020 05:01:11
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:19 pm

    17" is a bear of a laptop to cart around. 14-15" is a nice balance for viewability and portability. And huge screen real estate isn't a huge consideration for Granny or Timmy who's mainly just watching youtube, browsi facebook and amazon, replying to emails, and maybe opening the occasional office document.

    Actually, grannies are the ones who benefit the most from big screens, since their sight is not what it used to be.

    My boss replaced his old home laptop for a desktop with a big screen partially for that reason.

    Something that creeps me out: manufacturers trying to make phones BIGGER instead of more portable, while trying to make computers SMALLER instead of more comfortable to work with.

    God, I miss the candybar Nokias.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Rampage on Saturday, July 25, 2020 11:06:54
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Rampage to Moondog on Sat Jul 25 2020 06:56 am

    Unless you use Bluetooth, a keyboard, mouse, printer and a thumb
    drive will take up your ports.

    does no one know about or use USB hubs any more? ;)

    Yep.. I think you can plug up to 128 devices into one USB port, through the use of hubs & such.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Warpslide@VERT/NRBBS to Arelor on Saturday, July 25, 2020 14:30:00
    On 25 Jul 2020, Arelor said the following...

    Actually, grannies are the ones who benefit the most from big screens, sin their sight is not what it used to be.

    My Mom has a 17" laptop with a "made for Windows Vista" sticker on it. When she first got it I blew that away and put Windows 7 on it for her.

    That was all fine and dandy until Microsoft started pushing messages that Windows 7 support is ending & eluding that she'd need to buy a new computer.

    By this time her laptop was getting a little on the slow side so I maxed out her RAM and installed a new SSD & then upgraded her to Windows 10. She's now happy with her "super fast" laptop on a screen that she can read.

    Jay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ennev on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:33:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ennev to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:54 am

    What I see something is laptop "permanently" setup, why pick a laptop?

    Although it shouldn't, this really grinds my gears... I always put my laptops away after use, but that's probably because my main laptop is always a high end gaming machine. I can't risk something --a hard object or liquid-- falling onto or over it. I understand that most folk purchase a basic netbook style laptop that's only worth 250-400 dollars, which can be transported from room to room with convenience & never has go to into a case unless it's leaving the house. I guess they're expendable!

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:38:03
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:33 am

    I've seen an amber screen in a Mac Plus. I kind of liked it.

    I don't know what it was about those old Macs - maybe just because we
    weren't used to a white screen - but I used to get bad raster burn
    after a day on a Mac - burn-y, squinty eyes.

    Working on a green screen 14" CRT all day and night, no problem.

    I saw someone recently post a picture of their SE with a monochrome amber CRT on Reddit. That colour really did suit the machine... I like it a lot more than black and white!

    I've had no issues with my eyes using this b&w Mac screen. I quite like the look of the white back ground and black text when BBSing on this terminal.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:45:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:14 am

    Please, try porting a REAL building collapse simulator to a tablet, then simulate the collapse of a stadium.

    Besides, young adult gamers are no tiny demographic by any means. If it was the only remaining niche for desktop computers, I'd say desktop computers have a long way to go.

    For the record, at job we deploy workstations only because they are cheaper in the long run, can be upgraded easily, and are much more comfortable to work with if somebody has to spend 6 hours at the screen.

    Desktop workstations are by far the best option for businesses. These machines are operational for over 12 hours each day, I don't think small form-factor machines are designed for that punishing level of use. It's also easier for the IT guy to repair a desktop workstation than a fiddly laptop or other replacement device. In a domestic setting, however, laptops & tablets reign supreme and are swallowing up the desktop PC market.

    I think there will always be a home desktop market as nVidia and AMD are still ready and willing to invest huge sums of money into R&D for new GPUs designed to be housed in large tower cases.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:52:13
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 05:40 pm

    The pc boxes were always wider and deeper than any of the monitors I
    worked with. I didn't like a monitor sitting on top of the pc case; often that was too high as well. Placing the monitor on a maximum 4" high plinth/riser (with room to keep some papers undereath) was much better. I really liked the look of just a monitor and a keyboard on the desk
    surface. When the monitor was strategically placed in the far corner of a desk, turned back at about 45º, the long part (electron gun/beam section) would fit very nicely when parked in a corner - you could reclaim quite a bit of the desk surface.

    We still use DELL desktop style workstations at my place of work. I personally find them to be quite comfortable to use, perhaps I am just better suited for staring horizontally rather than tilting my head slightly down.

    I like all-in-one systems too. I have never owned a modern one (just this compact 80s Mac). I am not a heavy user so I would probably opt for a (slightly overpriced) 2020 iMac on account of its very pleasing design.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:57:31
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Thu Jul 23 2020 05:51 pm

    Marginalized from people who need a pc for entertainment. But for real work, a dedicated pc box and a separate monitor still has a good life.

    I think so too. I was merely talking about desktop computers in a domestic setting. Almost all of the population has access to the internet and rely on it in some way, only a very small portion of those people have a dedicated desktop PC in their homes.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Saturday, July 25, 2020 18:08:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Jul 24 2020 10:15 am

    Shipping to Australia is the problem here. Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and get them shipped. Obviously for portable devices, I want them smaller and still functional. I do think the Apple desktops look pretty good, and better than pimped out PC's with gratuitous LEDS. I draw the line where usability and functionality is sacrificed, which I've seen here and there.

    If you think about it, the XT case itself is somewhat simpler than many cases that came later (partly due to lack of buttons, etc). Another nice one is the Amstrad PC2386/PC2286. The back of expansion cards faced the side, not the back, making them easier to use, but there was a slide on cover you could put on to hide them if you wanted. Everything well positioned. Monitor and keyboard matched the style.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I guess the import costs are a small price to pay for such a remarkable case. Apple have always sacrificed usability in favour of aesthetics. Steve Jobs famously refused to have a fan installed in the Apple /// thereby causing it to overheat and fail 100% of the time; now that's form over function!

    The Amstrad PC2286 case is pretty cute. I like the unique looking tapered upper portion of the case. All this talk about retro machines is making me want to start another project!

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Warpslide on Saturday, July 25, 2020 18:23:43
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:46 pm

    My setup (IMO) is the best of both worlds for my needs. I have a MacBook Pro which I use for everything. I have a thunderbolt docking station for when
    I'm in my home office; One cable instantly connects me to my 32" widescreen monitor, wired ethernet & speakers. The bluetooth keyboard & trackpad are already on the desk so I just need to plug & play.

    This way everything I'm working on is always with me, I don't need to keep track of whats on my desktop or whats on my laptop. If I need (or want) to work on the couch or in the back yard instead of being cooped up inside, I just unplug one cable & go.

    Granted this approach may not work for everyone, but for those of us who can pull it off, it offers great flexibility.


    This YouTuber recently made a video about laptop docks:

    "Laptop Docks! They're pretty neat!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc31L3zJiaU

    That's a very nice all-in-one style setup that clearly works well for you. I don't really use my laptop for much other than gaming, which means it's only out once per week... perhaps I should have just invested in a nice desktop PC. My 2019 iPad Mini 5 & iPhone 8 are such a capable pairing for anything internet related that I almost never do my browing elsewhere. My smart TV has all the streaming Apps pre-installed rendering my laptop redundant for anything other than the one night I play online games with my friend each week. If it weren't for him I doubt I'd have any use for a PC.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, July 25, 2020 18:32:12
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:49 pm

    I used to do that, but when tower cases became common, I started using tower cases and I'd put a power center surge protector like this under the monitor:
    www.ebay.com/i/324200569661

    Nightfox

    Haha, I've never seen a surge protector as substantial as that before. I always thought they were built into the sockets!

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, July 25, 2020 18:39:48
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:52 pm

    What do you consider minimalism pulled off correctly? I've often felt like Apple products are too minimalistic. One thing is their computers don't have any front USB ports. Front USB ports make it easy to plug in USB flash drives etc. Otherwise, you have to reach around back or plug in a USB extension cable or USB hub with an extension cable to make the USB ports more accessible.

    Nightfox

    They pulled it off from a design aesthetic only. Very few can argue that Apple design the most attractive looking products on the market - their iPads, iMacs and Macbooks are more appealing than their competitors. Their products are, however, less functional & underpowered and more expensive than the alternatives... for the most part.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, July 25, 2020 18:57:29
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:57 pm

    I suppose that might be true.. It seems weird considering laptops would tend to be more expensive than desktops (for equivalent power), so laptops would usually only be considered when you had to take them with you often.
    I thought that might still be the case, considering they have to cram things into a small space for laptops, but maybe not.

    I was also thinking that one nice thing about a desktop is being able to use a large monitor, but it seems most laptops let you plug in an external monitor. But then it might become awkward about how to position the laptop screen in relation to the monitor, and it might be useful to also use an external keyboard & mouse so you can put the laptop off to the side while you use the external monitor. With a laptop I often like using an external mouse anyway, as I don't really like touchpads.

    I often liked using 17" laptops for the screen size, but it seems many computer makers don't make them that big these days. I know Apple stopped making a 17" MacBook. At home I'm currently using a 27" 4K monitor with my PC, and when I go to a laptop I often have to try to focus better to look at its smaller screen.

    Cheap budget laptops are more than capable these days of carrying out the low-level tasks required by the masses. They would not find value in saving the very small sum of money they would if they opted for a desktop PC. I also find that a huge number of people prefer to sit with a laptop whilst seated in the living sofa & watching television. I guess they feel less "anti-social" as they're able to do all this in the immediate presence of their family.

    It's different for different people, but I don't mind gaming on a 15" monitor. My friend who uses a 32" 1000 dollar ROG monitor would never stoop to my level as he said it would "lack immersion". My last laptop (the ASUS ROG G752VY) had a very nice 17" G-sync monitor which I was very fond of. I believe you'd get used to a smaller monitor fairly quickly, if you were so inclined to do so.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, July 25, 2020 19:02:52
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 09:33 pm

    I think video editing in general (including transcoding) and other computational-intensive things (like distributed computing, bitcoin mining, etc.), where the CPU and/or GPU might be near 100% for much of the time, would benefit from a desktop PC case where it can get better cooling than you'd get in a laptop.

    Also, with the decline of optical media for movies & music, I'd think some people would want to set up a media server PC in their home, which might be on a desktop (though I suppose a small form-factor computer or high-end laptop would work for that too).

    Nightfox

    We'll never see the death of desktop PCs in our lifetime, perhaps in a home enviroment but surely not in business.

    Haha, I don't think much value could be derived from bitcoin mining on a laptop - they're no where near as efficient as the desktop class 1060 GTXs which are most often used.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Saturday, July 25, 2020 19:15:01
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Jul 24 2020 02:30 am

    Even with older pc's I've seen where AA style bios battery wasn't removed and eventually leaked, and some look like they blew up. Lots of vinegar and a
    tiny brass brush or tooth brush can do wonders.

    I have seen a fair number of motherboards rescued by this method. It's sad that most folk who open their non-working computers up to see the CMOS battery exploded, discard their machines entirely in the belief that the board can't be saved. On Reddit & the MLA64K forum, I've seen some absolute horror shows brought back to life. Those old Maxwell batteries have a lot to answer for!

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Saturday, July 25, 2020 19:20:55
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Jul 24 2020 02:42 am

    My Portable II has a CGA output and a composite video out. If I were to get mTCP and mTelnet running on it, I'd use an external monitor for prolonged view ing.

    Under the skin, the Portable II is very similar to a desktop case. If someone made a copy of the exterior, it wouldn't be too hard to craft a generic cage, then drill and mount brackets and stand offs for the boards.

    It would be pretty cool if you got your Portable II online. I see the 9" monochrome monitor is the same size as the one I am using now on my Plus... I wouldn't say it's TOO small for prolonged use. I have used this thing for up to 3 hours straight without experiencing discomfort.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, July 25, 2020 19:24:57
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Dennisk on Fri Jul 24 2020 09:17 am

    I discovered LGR a few months ago and enjoy watching his videos. Lots of nostalgia there.

    Nightfox

    I discovered LGR several months ago too & have learned quite a bit watching his videos. The dude's pretty entertaining and has a very calm and relaxing tone of voice... I like to grab a coffee and chill while watching his videos. If you like him, give Nostialgia Nerd a try. He's like the British version of LGR.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to all on Saturday, July 25, 2020 16:50:56
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Sat Jul 25 2020 12:04 pm

    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Dreamer on Fri Jul 24 2020 09:05 pm

    Dreamer wrote to MRO <=-

    MRO wrote to all <=-

    god i hate that lunduke guy. he's full of shit and annoying.
    fucking poser too.

    His shtick is a cross between comedy, tech news, and retro blog.
    And he tends to go all in on the comedy and opinion. I can see how
    it can be annoying.


    another guy i hate a little less than lunduke is this kyle hill science guy.
    i call him the science joe dirt.
    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:32:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Ennev on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:33 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ennev to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:54 am

    What I see something is laptop "permanently" setup, why pick a laptop?

    Although it shouldn't, this really grinds my gears... I always put my laptop away after use, but that's probably because my main laptop is always a high gaming machine. I can't risk something --a hard object or liquid-- falling o or over it. I understand that most folk purchase a basic netbook style lapto that's only worth 250-400 dollars, which can be transported from room to roo with convenience & never has go to into a case unless it's leaving the house guess they're expendable!


    I have another point of view. Laptops are supposed to be nomadic warriors designed for working on the road on harsh conditions.

    I have an Acer Aspire that was well worth above 1k when purchased. I have used it on trips. I have used it in moving trains. I have used it in moving buses. Why? Because this stuff is designed so you can troubleshoot a server on the road, get articles finished before you hit the deadlines, and allow you to carry a working computer environment everywhere you need.

    I am sure people laughts at me when they see me in a bus working at what is a glorified portable desktop. More power to them. A big system with a good touchpad, a big screen and optical media beats an ultraportable solution that requires lots of dongles to reach the same level of functionality.

    Yes, this Acer is full of scratches and nicks, but who cares. That is what it is for. I have covered the worst ones with stickers (love the Anarma, aka Spanish NRA, ones).

    Now, if you see a desktop with dents and scratches, now that is somebody who abuses his hardware.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

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    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:42:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 06:57 pm

    Cheap budget laptops are more than capable these days of carrying out the low-level tasks required by the masses. They would not find value in saving very small sum of money they would if they opted for a desktop PC. I also fi that a huge number of people prefer to sit with a laptop whilst seated in th living sofa & watching television. I guess they feel less "anti-social" as they're able to do all this in the immediate presence of their family.

    It's different for different people, but I don't mind gaming on a 15" monito My friend who uses a 32" 1000 dollar ROG monitor would never stoop to my lev as he said it would "lack immersion". My last laptop (the ASUS ROG G752VY) h a very nice 17" G-sync monitor which I was very fond of. I believe you'd get used to a smaller monitor fairly quickly, if you were so inclined to do so.

    During our saturday parties, some of my friends would grab a latop and start gaming or social-mediaing in the sofa while everybody else was socializing. Maybe they felt less anti-social, but let me tell you it is the most anti-social behavior you will experience in a non hostile environment.

    You can get used to a smaller screen the same you get used to a smaller keyboard or a less powerful processor, but it greatly impacts productivity. I don't get as many words writen in a text procesor in two hours in a netbook as I do in an ultrabook (and I don't get as much done in an ultrabook as I get done in a workstation).

    Working conditions matter.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:19:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 06:32 pm

    I used to do that, but when tower cases became common, I started using
    tower cases and I'd put a power center surge protector like this under
    the monitor:
    www.ebay.com/i/324200569661

    Haha, I've never seen a surge protector as substantial as that before. I always thought they were built into the sockets!

    Interesting. It seemed to me those used to be fairly popular for desktop computers because they had individual switches that let you easily turn each component on/off. Sometimes I'd leave my computer on to work on something and use the switch to turn the monitor & speakers off to save power.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:20:45
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 06:39 pm

    They pulled it off from a design aesthetic only. Very few can argue that Apple design the most attractive looking products on the market - their iPads, iMacs and Macbooks are more appealing than their competitors. Their products are, however, less functional & underpowered and more expensive than the alternatives... for the most part.

    I'd probably agree with them being usually underpowered and more expensive. I think they do look nice, but I'm not sure they look significantly better than their competitors.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:22:42
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 06:57 pm

    Cheap budget laptops are more than capable these days of carrying out the low-level tasks required by the masses. They would not find value in saving the very small sum of money they would if they opted for a desktop PC. I also find that a huge number of people prefer to sit with a laptop whilst seated in the living sofa & watching television. I guess they feel less "anti-social" as they're able to do all this in the immediate presence of their family.

    I've sometimes sat on a couch with my laptop, but I find it more comfortable to sit in a good chair at a desk when working on my PC.

    It's different for different people, but I don't mind gaming on a 15" monitor. My friend who uses a 32" 1000 dollar ROG monitor would never stoop to my level as he said it would "lack immersion". My last laptop (the ASUS ROG G752VY) had a very nice 17" G-sync monitor which I was very fond of. I believe you'd get used to a smaller monitor fairly quickly, if you were so inclined to do so.

    I do find a larger monitor nice, but I don't really mind gaming on a smaller monitor too. When I was growing up, I had a 15" CRT monitor with my PC, and only bought a 17" CRT later, so I was used to having the 15" monitor.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 17:28:38
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 07:02 pm

    Also, with the decline of optical media for movies & music, I'd think
    some people would want to set up a media server PC in their home,
    which might be on a desktop (though I suppose a small form-factor
    computer or high-end laptop would work for that too).

    We'll never see the death of desktop PCs in our lifetime, perhaps in a home enviroment but surely not in business.

    For myself, I could foresee continuing to use a desktop PC for quite a while. I just like to build my own PC, though I suppose if there small form-factor computers that would fit my needs, then I'd probably be okay with that.

    Also, I've often felt like having a media server at home was the natural progression of media, with optical media becoming less popular and purchased downloadable music and movies becoming more popular. I ripped all my music CDs to FLAC & MP3 (I still have my CDs) and copied the MP3s to my phone, USB drive for my car, etc. - I didn't want to have to buy all my music again in a downloadable format, and I figured most people were probably the same in wanting to rip their music CD library..

    Haha, I don't think much value could be derived from bitcoin mining on a laptop - they're no where near as efficient as the desktop class 1060 GTXs which are most often used.

    That's what I was saying - For people into bitcoin mining and other computational-intenstive tasks, I think it makes sense to have a desktop with a good GPU to work on that kind of thing.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Warpslide@VERT/NRBBS to Nightfox on Saturday, July 25, 2020 22:13:00
    On 25 Jul 2020, Nightfox said the following...

    I do find a larger monitor nice, but I don't really mind gaming on a small itor too. When I was growing up, I had a 15" CRT monitor with my PC, and ought a 17" CRT later, so I was used to having the 15" monitor.

    I was similar to you. I had a 15" CRT for the longest time, but eventually upgraded to the LG 19" Flatron monitor. It was a HUGE CRT monitor with flat glass on the front. Cutting edge at the time I suppose.

    One of the cats I had growing up love this monitor and would sleep on the top of it soaking up all the heat the monitor put off.

    Jay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 22:00:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Saturday 25.07.20 - 12:57, andeddu wrote to Ogg:

    Marginalized from people who need a pc for entertainment. But for
    real work, a dedicated pc box and a separate monitor still has a good
    life.

    I think so too. I was merely talking about desktop computers in a
    domestic setting. Almost all of the population has access to the
    internet and rely on it in some way, only a very small portion of
    those people have a dedicated desktop PC in their homes.

    All right then! :)

    But even a "desktop" box like the CHUWI Larkbox is amazing and could have
    a domestic application.

    A desktop pc doesn't have to be the proverbial big box.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to all on Saturday, July 25, 2020 23:43:05
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:19 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 06:32 pm

    I used to do that, but when tower cases became common, I started
    using tower cases and I'd put a power center surge protector like
    this under the monitor:
    www.ebay.com/i/324200569661

    Haha, I've never seen a surge protector as substantial as that
    before. I always thought they were built into the sockets!

    if that thing were to get a power surge it would blow the fuck up and burn the house down.

    computers because they had individual switches that let you easily turn each component on/off. Sometimes I'd leave my computer on to work on something and use the switch to turn the monitor & speakers off to save power.

    i wouldnt trust that though. stuff isnt made to last. too many on and off's and your stuff will blow out.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Sunday, July 26, 2020 07:51:00
    MRO wrote to all <=-

    I used to do that, but when tower cases became common, I started
    using tower cases and I'd put a power center surge protector like
    this under the monitor:
    www.ebay.com/i/324200569661

    if that thing were to get a power surge it would blow the fuck
    up and burn the house down.

    It would blow up, huh? What components inside there were
    explosive?

    computers because they had individual switches that let you easily turn each component on/off. Sometimes I'd leave my computer on to work on something and use the switch to turn the monitor & speakers off to save power.

    i wouldnt trust that though. stuff isnt made to last. too many on
    and off's and your stuff will blow out. ---

    Your stuff would "blow out", eh?

    Jesus, your knowledge of electrical stuff is even worse than your
    ideas of how to care for a baby. Is your whole family as retarded
    as you are? Hopefully you haven't reproduced and never do.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Sunday, July 26, 2020 12:23:56
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:32 pm

    I have another point of view. Laptops are supposed to be nomadic warriors designed for working on the road on harsh conditions.

    I have an Acer Aspire that was well worth above 1k when purchased. I have used it on trips. I have used it in moving trains. I have used it in moving buses. Why? Because this stuff is designed so you can troubleshoot a server on the road, get articles finished before you hit the deadlines, and allow you to carry a working computer environment everywhere you need.

    I am sure people laughts at me when they see me in a bus working at what is a glorified portable desktop. More power to them. A big system with a good touchpad, a big screen and optical media beats an ultraportable solution that requires lots of dongles to reach the same level of functionality.

    Yes, this Acer is full of scratches and nicks, but who cares. That is what it is for. I have covered the worst ones with stickers (love the Anarma, aka Spanish NRA, ones).

    Now, if you see a desktop with dents and scratches, now that is somebody who abuses his hardware.


    Business computers are total workhorses, no wonder they all suffer from cosmetic wear and tear. I've seen many IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads over the years banged up with dents and scratches, but in full working order. I think if you're just a student who is taking notes, downloading lectures, writing essays and carrying oout research, a smaller 13.3" MacBook Pro/Air style laptop would suffice. Although the same may be said for business users now as the majority of ThinkPads are below 15" with 13.3" being the most popular screen size.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Sunday, July 26, 2020 12:40:57
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:42 pm

    During our saturday parties, some of my friends would grab a latop and start gaming or social-mediaing in the sofa while everybody else was socializing. Maybe they felt less anti-social, but let me tell you it is the most anti-social behavior you will experience in a non hostile environment.

    You can get used to a smaller screen the same you get used to a smaller keyboard or a less powerful processor, but it greatly impacts productivity. I don't get as many words writen in a text procesor in two hours in a netbook as I do in an ultrabook (and I don't get as much done in an ultrabook as I get done in a workstation).

    Working conditions matter.

    If you're sitting with your friends immersed in the laptop computer screen, it's clearly anti-social. It just give the perception of being less anti-social because your presence is still there, rather than sat in the corner on a desktop. That doesn't really happen anymore though... I constantly see people immersed in their smart phones instead - any sort of recreational internet activity is much superior on a GOOD smartphone than on a laptop IMO (something I never thought I'd say).

    I still think Netbooks and Ultrabooks are underpowered, which is strange because mobile phones absolutely trounce them in terms of raw power despite their far smaller form factor. Even my 2018 iPhone 8 is a more capable web-browser than my powerful i7-8750H/1080GTX laptop along with the vast majority of PCs, notwithstanding the small screen. Webpages load up instantly and are buttery smooth, never skipping a single frame. I guess this has much to do with Safari being a well optimised web-browser. I think the Gen-Z demographic are going to be the first demographic to ditch PCs/laptops in favour of ultrafast smartphones, tablets and consoles. Obviosuly, they'll still come across these larger machines at work due to their business application.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Sunday, July 26, 2020 12:44:23
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:19 pm

    Interesting. It seemed to me those used to be fairly popular for desktop computers because they had individual switches that let you easily turn each component on/off. Sometimes I'd leave my computer on to work on something and use the switch to turn the monitor & speakers off to save power.

    Nightfox

    Perhaps they were popular, I just never saw one. I live in the UK though and it was pretty standard for our surge protectors to be built into the sockets, you could buy special ones with individual switches, similar to your old one. It's a pretty cool looking device though... I won't deny that!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Sunday, July 26, 2020 12:58:16
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:20 pm

    I'd probably agree with them being usually underpowered and more expensive. I think they do look nice, but I'm not sure they look significantly better than their competitors.

    Nightfox

    I'd say the iPhone line is outstanding. I've messed around with Samsung S9s and S10s and they clearly lack the performance of iPhones when web-browsing and multi-tasking - they have a sort of micro-stutter that iOS doesn't have. Apple's tablets are FAR superior than anything out in the market right now... absolutely nothing comes close. Their personal computer lines are lacking IMO. Yes iMacs, MacBooks and Mac Pros look amazing, but the underlying components are weak for what you're paying for. You could max out a MacBook Pro right now and my 2018 Zephyrus GX501 would spank it in relation to gaming. It wouldn't be close and it's less than half the price (down from around 3000 dollars to 1300 dollars today). You wouldn't buy a Mac to play games.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Sunday, July 26, 2020 13:03:05
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:22 pm

    I've sometimes sat on a couch with my laptop, but I find it more comfortable to sit in a good chair at a desk when working on my PC.
    I do find a larger monitor nice, but I don't really mind gaming on a smaller monitor too. When I was growing up, I had a 15" CRT monitor with my PC, and only bought a 17" CRT later, so I was used to having the 15" monitor.

    Nightfox

    I remember when my dad bought a 17" monitor back when we had a Pentium 2 system... I thought it was huge becasue I was used to the standard 15" monitor.

    I prefer using my laptop on a table/desk too. I haven't used a laptop on the couch for over a decade. Tablets are far better for that.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Sunday, July 26, 2020 13:12:50
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 10:00 pm

    But even a "desktop" box like the CHUWI Larkbox is amazing and could have
    a domestic application.

    A desktop pc doesn't have to be the proverbial big box.


    These micro PCs are not being marketed however so they're overlooked by the public. The majority of media is consumed via streaming services - Amazon Music, Apple Music and Spotify being the main music services and Netflix, Disney, Amazon Prime and HULU being the main TV services. People don't need a computer anymore now that Smart TVs serve that function. Again, I don't see desktop micro-ATXs and mini-PC media consoles ever gaining traction. Everything is streamed these days.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Sunday, July 26, 2020 11:49:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Sunday 26.07.20 - 07:40, andeddu wrote to Arelor:

    I still think Netbooks and Ultrabooks are underpowered, which is
    strange because mobile phones absolutely trounce them in terms of raw
    power despite their far smaller form factor. Even my 2018 iPhone 8 is
    a more capable web-browser than my powerful i7-8750H/1080GTX laptop
    along with the vast majority of PCs, notwithstanding the small screen. Webpages load up instantly and are buttery smooth, never skipping a
    single frame. I guess this has much to do with Safari being a well optimised web-browser.

    Mobile apps or mobile sites use reduced versions of images.

    For instance, m.facebook.com loads within 10 seconds and only 200kB (and
    no ads). The main site, facebook.com takes over 30 seconds and nearly
    2MB. The core images on the former are much smaller scale for the same
    image on the main site.

    The iPhone is most likely feeding small rez images, and thus you get the impression that performance is buttery smooth compared to the laptop.


    I think the Gen-Z demographic are going to be the first demographic to ditch PCs/laptops in favour of ultrafast smartphones, tablets and
    consoles. Obviosuly, they'll still come across these larger machines
    at work due to their business application.

    We should collect some of these predictions, put them in a time capsule
    and come back a year later and compare them to what actually transpired.

    Further to your "I think..", a smartphone is most likely the first device *anyone* (not limited to GenZ or GenCovid) would buy these days. And.. considering that a modicum a things like reading a pdf document, sending/ editing photos, can be done on a smartphone.. a PC or laptop is only a secondary consideration. That's far different than what was possible/ affordable only 15 years ago.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Sunday, July 26, 2020 11:03:02
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:44 pm

    Interesting. It seemed to me those used to be fairly popular for
    desktop computers because they had individual switches that let you
    easily turn each component on/off. Sometimes I'd leave my computer on
    to work on something and use the switch to turn the monitor & speakers
    off to save power.

    Perhaps they were popular, I just never saw one. I live in the UK though and it was pretty standard for our surge protectors to be built into the sockets, you could buy special ones with individual switches, similar to your old one. It's a pretty cool looking device though... I won't deny that!

    I think they were popular more for the feature of having the individual switches rather than the surge protection. The surge protection was a nice feature though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sunday, July 26, 2020 11:09:54
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to all on Sat Jul 25 2020 11:43 pm

    www.ebay.com/i/324200569661

    computers because they had individual switches that let you easily
    turn each component on/off. Sometimes I'd leave my computer on to
    work on something and use the switch to turn the monitor & speakers
    off to save power.

    i wouldnt trust that though. stuff isnt made to last. too many on and off's and your stuff will blow out. ---

    I had one of those same PC power center surge protectors for a long time. After 25 years, one of the switches started to get flaky - I just got rid of it last year. Before that, I never had a problem with it.

    I thought they were fairly popular with computer users..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Sunday, July 26, 2020 13:21:11
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Jul 26 2020 01:03 pm

    I remember when my dad bought a 17" monitor back when we had a Pentium 2 system... I thought it was huge becasue I was used to the standard 15" monitor.


    i had a 21inch or something display i got from a rich friend back in the day when it wasnt common at all. AND it looked great. i thought i was a baller.

    I prefer using my laptop on a table/desk too. I haven't used a laptop on the couch for over a decade. Tablets are far better for that.


    i've had one great gaming laptop, a bunch of netbooks, a bunch of laptops and now i have just a walmart laptop sitting on a rack doing nothing.

    my gaming laptop sat on the desk for years with my display plugged in, mouse, etc. never took it anyplace because it was huge.

    the asus netbooks didnt last long. not really built to last. i used 2 of them to run bbses and they burned out around the same time. pretty but not useful. my phone is better for personal tasks.

    the walmart laptop is just too slow for me to use. at my other place i jacked it into the tv and watched movies and tv shows i downloaded. it's a low end laptop with just 4 gigs of ram. i cant replace the ram but the hd went out on it and i was able to replace that.

    tablets and phones are just better for everyday tasks. i still need a nice desktop computer for my entertainment, though.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sunday, July 26, 2020 14:02:22
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 11:03 am


    I think they were popular more for the feature of having the individual switches rather than the surge protection. The surge protection was a nice feature though.


    this is my personal experience: not all surge protectors from back in the day worked. i've seen stuff fry on it from just a power surge.

    i'm not sure about today's hardware. i try to avoid electrical problems

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sunday, July 26, 2020 14:04:12
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Jul 26 2020 11:09 am


    I had one of those same PC power center surge protectors for a long time. After 25 years, one of the switches started to get flaky - I just got rid of it last year. Before that, I never had a problem with it.

    I thought they were fairly popular with computer users..



    i dont think i've ever seen something like that before. well maybe in school they had it for the old apple computers.

    if you want to protect your computer and equiptment i would suggest chaining your surge protectors and get atleaset one pricy one and put it closest to your electronics on the chain.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sunday, July 26, 2020 13:11:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 26 2020 02:04 pm

    I had one of those same PC power center surge protectors for a long
    time. After 25 years, one of the switches started to get flaky - I
    just got rid of it last year. Before that, I never had a problem
    with it.

    I thought they were fairly popular with computer users..

    i dont think i've ever seen something like that before. well maybe in school they had it for the old apple computers.

    if you want to protect your computer and equiptment i would suggest chaining your surge protectors and get atleaset one pricy one and put it closest to your electronics on the chain. ---

    I've been using a UPS power backup for my computer for a long time. But the main reason I liked those "power center" surge protectors was actually for the individual switches on the front to turn the components on/off. I thought that was fairly handy. Often I'd leave my PC on overnight to work on something, and I could just reach to the power center and turn the monitor and speakers off.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Sunday, July 26, 2020 17:20:51
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:28 pm

    For myself, I could foresee continuing to use a desktop PC for quite a while. I just like to build my own PC, though I suppose if there small form-factor computers that would fit my needs, then I'd probably be okay with that.

    Also, I've often felt like having a media server at home was the natural progression of media, with optical media becoming less popular and purchased downloadable music and movies becoming more popular. I ripped all my music CDs to FLAC & MP3 (I still have my CDs) and copied the MP3s to my phone, USB drive for my car, etc. - I didn't want to have to buy all my music again in a downloadable format, and I figured most people were probably the same in wanting to rip their music CD library..

    I think you're an outlier tbh. Most of the people I've spoken to who are very non-technically minded rely on streaming services for both their music and TV consumption. I don't know anyone other than my own parents who uses a USB drive in their car... it's bluetooth connecting to their phone and Spotify or Apple Music for the majority of the YOUNGER population. Folk are happy to throw away their old CDs as EVERYTHING can be streamed, so long as you're subscribed.

    Like it or lump it, non-ownership of digital media is the future. I am personally against the streaming only medium, but it's taking over in a BIG way. I've spoken to many 20 year olds and younger who have no idea what file formats are, they've heard of MP3s but have little concept about what you're on about. Everything works on modern systems as you're using apps... there's literally no fucking around with file formats. Kids don't have time for that anymore, and that's why traditonal computing is DEAD.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Sunday, July 26, 2020 14:13:06
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Jul 26 2020 05:20 pm

    and purchased downloadable music and movies becoming more popular. I
    ripped all my music CDs to FLAC & MP3 (I still have my CDs) and copied
    the MP3s to my phone, USB drive for my car, etc. - I didn't want to
    have to buy all my music again in a downloadable format, and I figured
    most people were probably the same in wanting to rip their music CD
    library..

    I think you're an outlier tbh. Most of the people I've spoken to who are very non-technically minded rely on streaming services for both their music and TV consumption. I don't know anyone other than my own parents who uses a USB drive in their car... it's bluetooth connecting to their phone and Spotify or Apple Music for the majority of the YOUNGER population. Folk are happy to throw away their old CDs as EVERYTHING can be streamed, so long as you're subscribed.

    I don't really see streaming services as an adequate replacement for CDs & such, since you aren't going to have a good signal everywhere.. For a new medium to be useful, I've often thought it would have to be technically better than what was used before, and I just don't see streaming as better. It's handy when you don't want to go get a physical copy and insert it in your player, or when some content is only available via streaming (such as news or some obscure content), and when you're in a place with a reliable internet connection (such as at home). If you're driving, on a bus/train, or otherwise mobile, there will probably be spots where your connection will drop out.

    Like it or lump it, non-ownership of digital media is the future. I am personally against the streaming only medium, but it's taking over in a BIG way. I've spoken to many 20 year olds and younger who have no idea what file formats are, they've heard of MP3s but have little concept about what you're on about. Everything works on modern systems as you're using apps... there's literally no fucking around with file formats. Kids don't have time for that anymore, and that's why traditonal computing is DEAD.

    That seems interesting and weird to me at the same time.. To solve the issue of possible connection drop-outs, I've heard some streaming players let you save media locally so you can play it without having to worry about your connection dropping out. So I'd think people would still be aware of file formats & such. I wouldn't imagine people would generally not know about saving things to files, as that's how our computers & other computing devices have always worked.. If they want to save a piece of music, podcast, etc. for offline playing, where do they think it's being saved?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Andeddu on Sunday, July 26, 2020 15:41:10
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:40 pm

    If you're sitting with your friends immersed in the laptop computer screen, it's clearly anti-social. It just give the perception of being less anti-soc because your presence is still there, rather than sat in the corner on a desktop. That doesn't really happen anymore though... I constantly see peopl immersed in their smart phones instead - any sort of recreational internet activity is much superior on a GOOD smartphone than on a laptop IMO (somethi I never thought I'd say).

    I still think Netbooks and Ultrabooks are underpowered, which is strange because mobile phones absolutely trounce them in terms of raw power despite their far smaller form factor. Even my 2018 iPhone 8 is a more capable web-browser than my powerful i7-8750H/1080GTX laptop along with the vast majority of PCs, notwithstanding the small screen. Webpages load up instantl and are buttery smooth, never skipping a single frame. I guess this has much do with Safari being a well optimised web-browser. I think the Gen-Z demographic are going to be the first demographic to ditch PCs/laptops in favour of ultrafast smartphones, tablets and consoles. Obviosuly, they'll st come across these larger machines at work due to their business application.

    I don't know, most smartphone users I know have a love-hate relationship with their phones. They hate them because they work like crap but they love them because they can have social media with them everywhere.

    In general I find desktop chat software to be more sane. Also many browser games. I believe that services which deploy their own mobile application s have a theorical chance of offering a better experience on mobile, but I still need to find one.

    I have a desktop computer from 2007 that crunches through websites no-problem btw. I cheat because I use custom DNS and proxies on the LAN for sanitizing the traffic, but even when not using those, I don't really appreciate performance issues. (Check Linux Magazine #232 www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2020/232 for how I perform LAN level http traffic sanitation)


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Sunday, July 26, 2020 15:48:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 26 2020 02:02 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 11:03 am


    I think they were popular more for the feature of having the individual switches rather than the surge protection. The surge protection was a n feature though.


    this is my personal experience: not all surge protectors from back in the da worked. i've seen stuff fry on it from just a power surge.

    i'm not sure about today's hardware. i try to avoid electrical problems

    Surge protection methods are not born equal.

    Afaik most of the ones you find integrated in sockets offer ok over-current protection but will still fry your equipment if the tension goes too high.

    Some of the lower-end APC uninterrupted power supplies offer limited over-voltage protection but I think guarantees stop with fluctuations above 20%. If you are serious about surge protection you need to put a dedicated protection in your General Protection Box (or whatever it is called in English).


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Andeddu on Sunday, July 26, 2020 15:34:34
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Arelor on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:40 pm

    constantly see people immersed in their smart phones instead - any sort of recreational internet activity is much superior on a GOOD smartphone than on a laptop IMO (something I never thought I'd say).

    That has more to do with the fact it's only a few major players prevalent in the mobile social media market, and they're spent years and major $$ to design good interfaces that work around the limitations of mobile form factors, and try to find advantages where possible. Web pages on the other hand, for all the innovations of html5, websockets, etc, are still mostly just web pages. That's one of the things I enjoy about the BBS experience - it just somehow FEELS more interactive to have a terminal instead of staring at a mostly static page.

    despite their far smaller form factor. Even my 2018 iPhone 8 is a more capable web-browser than my powerful i7-8750H/1080GTX laptop along with the vast majority of PCs, notwithstanding the small screen. Webpages load up instantly and are buttery smooth, never skipping a single frame. I

    That has far more to do with the mobile apps and mobile versions of sites not loading the absolute glut of javascript, css, etc than any better actual speed on mobile. If you load the desktop versions of sites on your iPhone, your laptop will kick its but again.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Nightfox on Sunday, July 26, 2020 15:48:30
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 02:13 pm

    not know about saving things to files, as that's how our computers & other computing devices have always worked.. If they want to save a piece of music, podcast, etc. for offline playing, where do they think it's being saved?

    After many years in the IT world, I can tell you for certain that MOST people have no idea what file formats are, or where things are saved.

    The number of business users who rely on the recent files for excel and word is startling, oh so many people use google to get to even recently viewed websites since they have no idea how the URL bar works.

    I managed to seek out and read the results of a few studies on general computing ability and literacy recently to help keep me thinking about user needs while developing a few b2b tools. The results would shock you - less than 25% of users considered familiar with general computing were able to complete tasks that you or I would consider absolutely trivial.

    For younger users who don't have decades of exposure, if an app handles the files and serves them up to them, I don't see it as at all unlikely that they wouldn't have any clue or even curiosity about file formats.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Underminer on Sunday, July 26, 2020 17:17:01
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Sun Jul 26 2020 03:48 pm

    After many years in the IT world, I can tell you for certain that MOST people have no idea what file formats are, or where things are saved.

    The number of business users who rely on the recent files for excel and word is startling, oh so many people use google to get to even recently viewed websites since they have no idea how the URL bar works.

    I managed to seek out and read the results of a few studies on general computing ability and literacy recently to help keep me thinking about user needs while developing a few b2b tools. The results would shock you - less than 25% of users considered familiar with general computing were able to complete tasks that you or I would consider absolutely trivial.

    For younger users who don't have decades of exposure, if an app handles the files and serves them up to them, I don't see it as at all unlikely that they wouldn't have any clue or even curiosity about file formats.

    I always thought that starting with my generation, who grew up with increasing use of computer technology, computer literacy would be an essential skill in life, but maybe not.. It always seemed to be the assumption that people in my age group would need to become familiar with computers & learn things like that.

    As I've used smartphones over the years, indeed sometimes it seems the app or the OS itself might try to obfuscate where it's storing its files, so sometimes it might take some time to find where the files are if I need direct access to the files.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Sunday, July 26, 2020 17:27:49
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 03:41 pm

    I don't know, most smartphone users I know have a love-hate relationship with their phones. They hate them because they work like crap but they love them because they can have social media with them everywhere.

    I don't think a smartphone should work like crap. My main frustration with smartphones is the virtual keyboard. I type much faster and more accurately on a real keyboard.

    In general I find desktop chat software to be more sane. Also many browser

    Most of the desktop chat software I used to use is gone now, or so few people use them that they're probably not worth using. In the past, I've used ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger, and AOL Instant Messenger to keep in touch with people who used various services, but those are all gone now, except perhaps ICQ, which is very different from how it used to be anyway.

    One thing I used to like about ICQ was that you could fill out a small user profile and search for a random chat partner anywhere in the world using ICQ. I met some interesting people that way and talked to them online. Sometimes I feel like it's a bummer that I've lost contact with all of them. I remember talking to people in various countries with it but now I can't remember their names. :/ We make social connections many ways these days..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to paulie420 on Saturday, July 25, 2020 22:58:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: paulie420 to Moondog on Fri Jul 24 2020 11:47 pm

    I like LGR, Retro man cave, 8-bit Guy, Retro Recipes, Jan Beta, and Adrians Digital Basement. Adrian also posts and answers questions over at the vintage computing forums, ans there's a nother Youtuber that deals alot with old Pet, but I can't recall his name at this moment.

    I forever got LGR and 8-bit guy mixed up for some reason.. then in an LGR video after covid, he was talking about his 'long hair' because he hadn't ha a cut in a while - I was like WTF, it IS the same guy??!

    Just recently I came to my senses.... sheesh.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
    |08.........

    LGR and 8-bit guy are both in Texas IIRC, and have worked together and with other tech Youtubers. Techmoan and 8-bit guy go back and forth at each other

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Rampage on Saturday, July 25, 2020 23:02:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Rampage to Moondog on Sat Jul 25 2020 06:56 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Dreamer on Fri Jul 24 2020 15:08:00


    Of the laptops I've commonly run into, there's only 3, maybe 4 USB
    ports.

    yep...

    Unless you use Bluetooth, a keyboard, mouse, printer and a thumb
    drive will take up your ports.

    does no one know about or use USB hubs any more? ;)


    )\/(ark


    A usb hub is nice to have and can act somewhat like a dock to save from
    pulling and reconnecting a bunch of cables, however a powered hub eats up another outlet on a power strip I'd rather use with a dock

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Saturday, July 25, 2020 23:08:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Underminer on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:01 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:19 pm

    17" is a bear of a laptop to cart around. 14-15" is a nice balance for viewability and portability. And huge screen real estate isn't a huge consideration for Granny or Timmy who's mainly just watching youtube, bro facebook and amazon, replying to emails, and maybe opening the occasional office document.

    Actually, grannies are the ones who benefit the most from big screens, since their sight is not what it used to be.

    My boss replaced his old home laptop for a desktop with a big screen partial for that reason.

    Something that creeps me out: manufacturers trying to make phones BIGGER instead of more portable, while trying to make computers SMALLER instead of more comfortable to work with.

    God, I miss the candybar Nokias.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es


    I used to joke about older users and larger print, then I noticed I began having focus issues in my early to mid 40's. Tiny terminal screens in the sma llest font available on a 10" 4k display is no longer legible to me. I also l ike running multiple displays.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 23:32:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Ennev on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:33 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ennev to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 11:54 am

    What I see something is laptop "permanently" setup, why pick a laptop?

    Although it shouldn't, this really grinds my gears... I always put my laptop away after use, but that's probably because my main laptop is always a high gaming machine. I can't risk something --a hard object or liquid-- falling o or over it. I understand that most folk purchase a basic netbook style lapto that's only worth 250-400 dollars, which can be transported from room to roo with convenience & never has go to into a case unless it's leaving the house guess they're expendable!

    I like using a laptop in longer term stationary configuration becuase of the all in one, smaller footprint it takes up. I have a laptop that sits up in
    my bedroom, however it will also get packed up and used mobilly on occasion
    as intended. I could possibly get by with an all in one bult into the
    display, but that wouldn't help me in the garage or in my barn when I need to run off of battery power.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 23:38:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Ogg on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:52 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to Andeddu on Thu Jul 23 2020 05:40 pm

    The pc boxes were always wider and deeper than any of the monitors I worked with. I didn't like a monitor sitting on top of the pc case; ofte that was too high as well. Placing the monitor on a maximum 4" high plinth/riser (with room to keep some papers undereath) was much better. really liked the look of just a monitor and a keyboard on the desk surface. When the monitor was strategically placed in the far corner of desk, turned back at about 45º, the long part (electron gun/beam section) would fit very nicely when parked in a corner - you could reclaim quite a bit of the desk surface.

    We still use DELL desktop style workstations at my place of work. I personal find them to be quite comfortable to use, perhaps I am just better suited fo staring horizontally rather than tilting my head slightly down.

    I like all-in-one systems too. I have never owned a modern one (just this compact 80s Mac). I am not a heavy user so I would probably opt for a (sligh overpriced) 2020 iMac on account of its very pleasing design.

    Mobile chipsets are commonly lower powered than their desktop couterparts,
    and a desktop pc may last longer regarding funtionality. I can purchase or lease a higher spec'd desktop for less than a laptop with competitive specs.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 23:49:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 07:24 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Dennisk on Fri Jul 24 2020 09:17 am

    I discovered LGR a few months ago and enjoy watching his videos. Lots of nostalgia there.

    Nightfox

    I discovered LGR several months ago too & have learned quite a bit watching videos. The dude's pretty entertaining and has a very calm and relaxing tone voice... I like to grab a coffee and chill while watching his videos. If you like him, give Nostialgia Nerd a try. He's like the British version of LGR.

    The host of Retro Recipes has a relaxing British accent. He played the role
    of LT Gavin Sykes in the Phantom Menace, has done voice acting in some of the Lego Star Wars shorts and was a stand in for Hayden Christenson in a few
    scenes in Revenge of the Sith. His wife has gotten involved in the newer episodes, and she is pleasant to listen to and look at :)

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Saturday, July 25, 2020 23:53:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Jul 25 2020 05:19 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 06:32 pm

    I used to do that, but when tower cases became common, I started using
    tower cases and I'd put a power center surge protector like this under
    the monitor:
    www.ebay.com/i/324200569661

    Haha, I've never seen a surge protector as substantial as that before. always thought they were built into the sockets!

    Interesting. It seemed to me those used to be fairly popular for desktop co he monitor & speakers off to save power.

    Nightfox

    Back in the old days power switches were located on the backs of printer and desktops, so a power strip or power station with individual power switches saved from doing some reaching.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Nightfox on Monday, July 27, 2020 21:35:00
    Nightfox wrote to Arelor <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 03:41 pm

    I don't know, most smartphone users I know have a love-hate relationship with their phones. They hate them because they work like crap but they love them because they can have social media with them everywhere.

    I don't think a smartphone should work like crap. My main frustration with smartphones is the virtual keyboard. I type much faster and more accurately on a real keyboard.

    In general I find desktop chat software to be more sane. Also many browser

    Most of the desktop chat software I used to use is gone now, or so few people use them that they're probably not worth using. In the past,
    I've used ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger, and AOL Instant
    Messenger to keep in touch with people who used various services, but those are all gone now, except perhaps ICQ, which is very different
    from how it used to be anyway.

    One thing I used to like about ICQ was that you could fill out a small user profile and search for a random chat partner anywhere in the world using ICQ. I met some interesting people that way and talked to them online. Sometimes I feel like it's a bummer that I've lost contact
    with all of them. I remember talking to people in various countries
    with it but now I can't remember their names. :/ We make social connections many ways these days..

    I quite liked MSN Messenger, spoke to some interesting people there. People that I have no idea how I got into contact with them in the first place. People that I kept in contact with for years.

    Despite Facebook being a much larger audience, it doesn't seem to result in conversations.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Monday, July 27, 2020 08:03:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Sun Jul 26 2020 05:27 pm

    I don't know, most smartphone users I know have a love-hate relationshi with their phones. They hate them because they work like crap but they love them because they can have social media with them everywhere.

    I don't think a smartphone should work like crap. My main frustration with smartphones is the virtual keyboard. I type much faster and more accurately a real keyboard.

    A smartphone should not work like crap, but most smartphone users I know have that complaint.

    Sluggish response, storage running lower each day, that sort of thing. A lot of it has to do with the inability of the average user to properly maintain their devices, but improperly mainteined smartphones degrade faster than, say, an improperly maintained Slackware.

    My father can degrade to the point of inusability three phones in the time he takes to trash a Linux. Believe me, I am the one doing the reinstalls and hard-resets


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Monday, July 27, 2020 14:38:29
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Sun Jul 26 2020 11:49 am

    Mobile apps or mobile sites use reduced versions of images.

    For instance, m.facebook.com loads within 10 seconds and only 200kB (and
    no ads). The main site, facebook.com takes over 30 seconds and nearly
    2MB. The core images on the former are much smaller scale for the same
    image on the main site.
    The iPhone is most likely feeding small rez images, and thus you get the impression that performance is buttery smooth compared to the laptop.
    We should collect some of these predictions, put them in a time capsule
    and come back a year later and compare them to what actually transpired. Further to your "I think..", a smartphone is most likely the first device *anyone* (not limited to GenZ or GenCovid) would buy these days. And.. considering that a modicum a things like reading a pdf document, sending/ editing photos, can be done on a smartphone.. a PC or laptop is only a secondary consideration. That's far different than what was possible/ affordable only 15 years ago.

    Well, I have just experimented on both my iPhone 8 and iPad Mini 5 by setting Eurogamer, which is a graphically intensive site, to Desktop. I see no real difference in speed between that and the portable/mobile versions. Most sites no longer provide the option to switch between the mobile/desktop versions of the site as I don't think there's a distinction anymore. I can only speak for Apple products which I have always found to be very well optimised compared to their Android counter-parts. 4G is pretty much as quick as broadband so reduced rez images are not required. I always pick up full 1080p image whenever I save something from a website.

    I believe smartphones are going to usurp laptops and tablets. The majority of flagship smartphones have 5-6" displays which are large enough to carry out any recrational web-browsing, social media, gaming, chat, video chat, video steaming functions. A study in 2020 found that the average American spent around 3.5 hours on their phones each day. With social media, I'd say the younger demographic spend upwards of 4.5 hours. That doesn't leave much time for any other similar devices... gaming consoles are a different animal, obviously.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Monday, July 27, 2020 14:48:45
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 01:21 pm

    i've had one great gaming laptop, a bunch of netbooks, a bunch of laptops and now i have just a walmart laptop sitting on a rack doing nothing.

    my gaming laptop sat on the desk for years with my display plugged in, mouse, etc. never took it anyplace because it was huge.

    the asus netbooks didnt last long. not really built to last. i used 2 of them to run bbses and they burned out around the same time. pretty but not useful. my phone is better for personal tasks.

    the walmart laptop is just too slow for me to use. at my other place i jacked it into the tv and watched movies and tv shows i downloaded. it's a low end laptop with just 4 gigs of ram. i cant replace the ram but the hd went out on it and i was able to replace that.

    tablets and phones are just better for everyday tasks. i still need a nice desktop computer for my entertainment, though.

    My previous gaming laptop was a huge 17" ASUS ROG brick with a 980GTX... I always put it back into the case after use however it was mightily tempting to leave it out on the desk due to its sheer size & weight. The newer one I have is a lot more powerful and is also slim & light, it's far more suitable for transporting about.

    I don't need a desktop PC work productivity so I may never own one again. A high spec Apple tablet is all you'll ever need for online entertainment... smart-tvs have YouTube, Amazon Prime, Netflix and Disney pre-installed so there's no requirement for anything else entertainment-wise. I still do understand why some people are attached to large desktop machines though, they're great for storing and viewing media...

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Monday, July 27, 2020 15:02:32
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 02:13 pm

    I don't really see streaming services as an adequate replacement for CDs & such, since you aren't going to have a good signal everywhere.. For a new medium to be useful, I've often thought it would have to be technically better than what was used before, and I just don't see streaming as better. It's handy when you don't want to go get a physical copy and insert it in your player, or when some content is only available via streaming (such as news or some obscure content), and when you're in a place with a reliable internet connection (such as at home). If you're driving, on a bus/train, or otherwise mobile, there will probably be spots where your connection will drop out.

    That seems interesting and weird to me at the same time.. To solve the issue of possible connection drop-outs, I've heard some streaming players let you save media locally so you can play it without having to worry about your connection dropping out. So I'd think people would still be aware of file formats & such. I wouldn't imagine people would generally not know about saving things to files, as that's how our computers & other computing devices have always worked.. If they want to save a piece of music, podcast, etc. for offline playing, where do they think it's being saved?

    I don't know about that... in the UK 4G internet connections are very stable. I am able to start a 720p YouTube video and drive for 30 minutes to and from work in a rural area, mostly fields and a couple of houses/farms, and not suffer any drops or buffering issues. Audio is perfectly fine too due to high quality stability... it's awfully rare to come across a 4G blackspot. Most streaming players allow you to download your music natively onto your device allowing the music to remain there whilst you're still subscribed to the service. Users wil never come across file formats as everything is carried out via the app. All they'll see is a picture of the album and the name of the song, nothing else. These files cannot be transferred outwith the app as there is DRM protection. Podcasts, TV shows, music, etc,.. are all saved natively to the app so the user will always know where their downloads are.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Monday, July 27, 2020 15:14:42
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 03:41 pm

    I don't know, most smartphone users I know have a love-hate relationship with their phones. They hate them because they work like crap but they love them because they can have social media with them everywhere.

    In general I find desktop chat software to be more sane. Also many browser games. I believe that services which deploy their own mobile application s have a theorical chance of offering a better experience on mobile, but I still need to find one.

    I have a desktop computer from 2007 that crunches through websites no-problem btw. I cheat because I use custom DNS and proxies on the LAN for sanitizing the traffic, but even when not using those, I don't really appreciate performance issues. (Check Linux Magazine #232 www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2020/232 for how I perform LAN level http traffic sanitation)

    Younger people are phone snobs so it's fairly rare to come across someone below the age of 30 who isn't in possession of a flagship smartphone. When you spend between 600-1200 dollars for a phone, you are not purchasing something that works like crap. Anyone where with an iPhone with an A11 chip or better will attest that these phones are lightining quick & have solid non-buggy interfaces. I have had my phone for over 2 years and I have never suffered a single hard crash, such is the stability of iOS.

    My friend recently booted up his old desktop from 2007 (with an archaic GTX7800) prior to throwing it in the trash, and it was a horror show online. Most of the webpages suffered formatting issues & everything crawled to a near halt. He was using Windows XP and Internet Explorer though. Glad you've overcome some of those problems with your unique setup!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Underminer on Monday, July 27, 2020 15:26:16
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to Andeddu on Sun Jul 26 2020 03:34 pm

    That has more to do with the fact it's only a few major players prevalent in the mobile social media market, and they're spent years and major $$ to design good interfaces that work around the limitations of mobile form factors, and try to find advantages where possible. Web pages on the other hand, for all the innovations of html5, websockets, etc, are still mostly just web pages. That's one of the things I enjoy about the BBS experience - it just somehow FEELS more interactive to have a terminal instead of staring at a mostly static page.

    That has far more to do with the mobile apps and mobile versions of sites not loading the absolute glut of javascript, css, etc than any better actual speed on mobile. If you load the desktop versions of sites on your iPhone, your laptop will kick its but again.

    I am enjoying the BBS experience too, I love the similicity of loading up a terminal and seeing only text (my retro computer doesn't even support ANSI, so I can't see pictures clearly). I have loaded up full desktop pages along with pages that do not officially support mobile devices and they all load up in 1-2 seconds. Mobile chipsets are incredibly powerful now and, as you say, a lot of money has been spent on optimisation by platform holders and phone manufacturers to make these devices as user friendly as possible. My laptops obviously kicks the phone's ass however part of the problem may be my web-browser... I use Microsoft Edge which is honking. I hardly use this machine for web-browsing so I have no reason to download something more suitable.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Monday, July 27, 2020 08:55:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat Jul 25 2020 11:53 pm

    Interesting. It seemed to me those used to be fairly popular for
    desktop co he monitor & speakers off to save power.

    Back in the old days power switches were located on the backs of printer and desktops, so a power strip or power station with individual power switches saved from doing some reaching.

    Yep, that's what made them so useful.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dennisk on Monday, July 27, 2020 08:56:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Mon Jul 27 2020 09:35 pm

    I quite liked MSN Messenger, spoke to some interesting people there. People that I have no idea how I got into contact with them in the first place. People that I kept in contact with for years.

    Despite Facebook being a much larger audience, it doesn't seem to result in conversations.

    I think that's true about Facebook. But Facebook is more of a social media platform rather than specifically a chat platform.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Monday, July 27, 2020 09:00:41
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Mon Jul 27 2020 03:02 pm

    I don't know about that... in the UK 4G internet connections are very stable. I am able to start a 720p YouTube video and drive for 30 minutes to and from work in a rural area, mostly fields and a couple of houses/farms, and not suffer any drops or buffering issues. Audio is perfectly fine too due to high quality stability... it's awfully rare to come across a 4G blackspot. Most streaming players allow you to download

    There are a couple areas just in my local city not far from my house where I don't get a good cell signal. One is a shopping center where I often go to buy groceries. Between towns, it's also common for there to be low/no cell signals. We're also about an hour and a half drive to the ocean beach, and on the drive there, there is a long stretch where there is no cell signal at all.

    I just don't believe there will be a strong and reliable cell signal everywhere you go.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Ogg on Monday, July 27, 2020 09:28:05
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Thu Jul 23 2020 05:51 pm

    The scope of people absolutely requiring a desktop PC is narrowing by
    the day. Heavy 4K video editing, CAD, gaming enthusiasts who really
    must play in 4K ultra... etc, are really the only folk who need a
    desktop.

    entertainment can be achieved with tablets and laptops and casting to a large LCD screen if necessary.

    I remember the cheapest laptop went for $2600 and I could build my own desktop for $200. Now I get find used laptops for $100. I never was a big gamer so I don't need to gigs of ram, fastest cpu and 3D Graphics Card.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Dreamer on Monday, July 27, 2020 09:46:56
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 02:39 pm

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the
    hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm

    Yep, it's still there. Windows got a lot better at memory management for a while there, so I would not be surprised if most users don't know anything about virtual memory.

    Bullshit. Windows still uses too much memory.

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Saturday, July 25, 2020 22:31:00
    Andeddu wrote to Ogg <=-

    We still use DELL desktop style workstations at my place of work. I personally find them to be quite comfortable to use, perhaps I am just better suited for staring horizontally rather than tilting my head slightly down.

    I supported the Optiplex 90X0 series for several years. We usually
    bought the mid-towers, and if anyone had any concerns about their
    data, I could charge them back for another SATA drive and mirror
    them. Nice little systems, they were.



    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:20:58
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Mon Jul 27 2020 09:00 am

    There are a couple areas just in my local city not far from my house where I don't get a good cell signal. One is a shopping center where I often go to buy groceries. Between towns, it's also common for there to be low/no cell signals. We're also about an hour and a half drive to the ocean beach, and on the drive there, there is a long stretch where there is no cell signal at all.
    I just don't believe there will be a strong and reliable cell signal everywhere you go.

    I think that'll happen this decade. All cities will be bathed in 5G whereas 4G will be redirected to areas with non-high density residential housing. Everyone should have access to a strong cell signal within 5-10 years.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:26:16
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Jul 27 2020 12:48 pm

    My boss used to be one of those flagship-kilobuck-of-death-smartphone-user and he is was not happy either.

    Also I am quite unimpressed with flagship-kilobuck-of-death-smartphones because they are usually very lacking software wise. I have seen their smtp client hang the whole phone when connecting to smtp servers that require non-standard ports, for example.

    Nowadays I advice peope to buy a cheapo. If you are going to be unhappy, be unhappy for exchange money instead of kilobucks.

    Again, use case scenario... premium phones are fucking useless for anything other than recrational use. They're VERY good at THAT, just not for niche applications. I have used cheapo phones and they suck, I would not recommend them to heavy recreational users... they're designed for older people who are not always glued to their phones browsing webpages on 10 different tabs, with music playing in the background & flipping between social media apps and IMs.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:30:15
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Jul 27 2020 05:01 pm

    that's what i had too. full size keyboard. let out a loud boom when it boots up. if i had my external speakers turned on it was scarey.

    really beautiful, huge , heavy, overheating laptop.

    My ROG had good thermal management on acount of its size. My newer Zephyrus GX501 is a thin and light gaming laptop which DOES overheat. I've had to undervolt my CPU to keep the components at an acceptable temperature, which is a false economy. In future, I will stick to the thicc boy gaming laptops.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:34:14
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to HusTler on Mon Jul 27 2020 05:02 pm

    well i had a 1 ghz netbook with 1 gig of ram. it ran windows 7 and i was playing world of warcraft at work on it.

    i had to lower the settings but still, the os had minimal ram and handled stuff fine.

    Around 12 years ago, I got to level 60 in WoW on an EEE PC 700 running Windows XP. It had a 7" screen, a crappy 1ghz processor and 512mb RAM. How times have changed!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:37:50
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 28 2020 09:38 am

    Maybe its just XP/IE? My desktop is from 2009, and web pages run OK. I had an older graphics card too, a GTX 285.

    I guess it must have been missing the required plugins/scripts required by modern webpages.

    The GTX285 was an absolute beast back in the day!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to MRO on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 16:02:40
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to all on Sat Jul 25 2020 04:50 pm

    another guy i hate a little less than lunduke is this kyle hill science guy. i call him the science joe dirt.

    Well, I mean, he's from your neck of the woods.

    Kyle's a pretty nice guy, actually. I talk to him on occasion.

    DaiTengu

    ... There's nothing moister. Than an oyster!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:55:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Tuesday 28.07.20 - 12:20, andeddu wrote to Nightfox:

    I just don't believe there will be a strong and reliable cell signal
    everywhere you go.

    I think that'll happen this decade. All cities will be bathed in 5G
    whereas 4G will be redirected to areas with non-high density
    residential housing. Everyone should have access to a strong cell
    signal within 5-10 years.

    We really need to keep track of these predictions and check back later
    within 10 years! <G>

    Personally, I don't think 5G will get the traction that the pundits are proclaiming.

    There are still many concerns as to the long-term effects of 24/7
    exposure.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Ogg on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:24:07
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:55 pm

    Personally, I don't think 5G will get the traction that the pundits are proclaiming.
    There are still many concerns as to the long-term effects of 24/7 exposure.

    No, there really aren't. There's a few nutjobs getting airtime about it.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 09:17:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 28 2020 09:38 am

    Maybe its just XP/IE? My desktop is from 2009, and web pages run OK. I had an older graphics card too, a GTX 285.

    I guess it must have been missing the required plugins/scripts required
    by modern webpages.

    The GTX285 was an absolute beast back in the day!

    Possibly. I haven't used IE in donkeys years. Haven't used it at home since the late 90s, and barely at work.

    The GTX 285 was great, I chose it over the GTX295 due to lower power usage (thought still high compared to the GT1030 I have now) and cost. But it was a beast. Was able to run Rage smoothly, but it would overheat a bit and cause my computer to poweroff in warm weather.

    I used it until it died a year or so ago.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 09:57:00
    Andeddu wrote to Arelor <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Jul 27 2020 12:48 pm

    My boss used to be one of those flagship-kilobuck-of-death-smartphone-user and he is was not happy either.

    Also I am quite unimpressed with flagship-kilobuck-of-death-smartphones because they are usually very lacking software wise. I have seen their smtp client hang the whole phone when connecting to smtp servers that require non-standard ports, for example.

    Nowadays I advice peope to buy a cheapo. If you are going to be unhappy, be unhappy for exchange money instead of kilobucks.

    Again, use case scenario... premium phones are fucking useless for anything other than recrational use. They're VERY good at THAT, just
    not for niche applications. I have used cheapo phones and they suck, I would not recommend them to heavy recreational users... they're
    designed for older people who are not always glued to their phones browsing webpages on 10 different tabs, with music playing in the background & flipping between social media apps and IMs.

    I don't care about recreational use, which is why I'll probably opt for a cheap phone, or even one a bit out of left-field, like a Linux phone. I keep getting told I need to update my phone, but the only thing people do with their new phones is scroll through feeds and use apps to access fast food deals and order pizza, and take photos.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:55:10
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to HusTler on Mon Jul 27 2020 05:02 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: HusTler to Dreamer on Mon Jul 27 2020 09:46 am

    management for a while there, so I would not be surprised if most
    users don't know anything
    about virtual memory.

    Bullshit. Windows still uses too much memory.


    well i had a 1 ghz netbook with 1 gig of ram. it ran windows 7 and i was playing world of warcraft at
    work on it.

    i had to lower the settings but still, the os had minimal ram and handled stuff fine.

    I don't know... last time I tried Windows 7 on virtual machines, with 1 gb of RAM assigned to each, the
    guest OSes really pushed memory consumption to the limits while close to idle.

    I mean, you could operate within the 1 gb limit but it felt very wasteful when looking at the graphics.

    I think Windows Vista is what got Windows its reputation for wasteful memory management, though, since it
    is said it cached so much stuff to RAM. At least that is what I have heard.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 17:57:02
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to MRO on Tue Jul 28 2020 09:14 am

    MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Mon Jul 27 2020 09:35 pm

    with it but now I can't remember their names. :/ We make social
    connections many ways these days..

    I quite liked MSN Messenger, spoke to some interesting people there. People that I have no idea h
    I got into contact with them in the first place. People that I kept in contact with for years.


    i dont think people really communicate with strangers on social media. they voice their opinions.

    i get what you are saying. i used all those msgers and i used to talk to people for fun. i talked to some real cool people. those days are over. ---

    No they don't, which is odd, because you would think it is the easiest place to do so. You can easily
    get into a group with people who share an interest, moreso than other places...



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I don't know, you can easily walk into #openbsd at a big IRC network and expect it to be full of people
    interested in OpenBSD. For example.

    But IRC is not exactly Average_User friendly so I will take the point, more or less.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ogg on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 18:04:43
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:55 pm

    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Tuesday 28.07.20 - 12:20, andeddu wrote to Nightfox:

    I just don't believe there will be a strong and reliable cell signal ni>> everywhere you go.

    I think that'll happen this decade. All cities will be bathed in 5G whereas 4G will be redirected to areas with non-high density
    residential housing. Everyone should have access to a strong cell
    signal within 5-10 years.

    We really need to keep track of these predictions and check back later within 10 years! <G>

    Personally, I don't think 5G will get the traction that the pundits are proclaiming.

    There are still many concerns as to the long-term effects of 24/7
    exposure.


    5G is not about speed, it is about edge computing.

    I would tell you which Linux Magazine issue covers it, but I'm starting to feel like a spambot already
    :-)

    The bottom line is that a lot of companies are burning money in specific applications with architectures
    built around 5G.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 22:47:36
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:20 pm

    I just don't believe there will be a strong and reliable cell signal
    everywhere you go.

    I think that'll happen this decade. All cities will be bathed in 5G whereas 4G will be redirected to areas with non-high density residential housing. Everyone should have access to a strong cell signal within 5-10 years.

    Cities maybe, but I would imagine there would still be rural areas and areas without habitation where there might be no cell signal at all. If you want to take a long road trip, I wouldn't rely on listening to streaming services in the car the whole way.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 22:57:16
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to MRO on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:55 pm

    I think Windows Vista is what got Windows its reputation for wasteful memory management, though, since it is said it cached so much stuff to RAM. At least that is what I have heard.

    I agree that seems wasteful. But there seems to be the school of thought that unused RAM is wasted RAM (which I don't really agree with)..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 01:22:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:34 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to HusTler on Mon Jul 27 2020 05:02 pm

    well i had a 1 ghz netbook with 1 gig of ram. it ran windows 7 and i was playing world of warcraft at work on it.

    i had to lower the settings but still, the os had minimal ram and handled stuff fine.

    Around 12 years ago, I got to level 60 in WoW on an EEE PC 700 running Windo XP. It had a 7" screen, a crappy 1ghz processor and 512mb RAM. How times hav changed!


    I have a 900Mhz 701 EEE that came with the 4gb ssd. When trying to update it with Ubuntu, the installer would complain about the drive space limitation. For awhile I had it running either Ubuntu Netbook Remix or Easy Peazy, which were nice streamlined distros. I'm thinking about installing MATE on an SD ca rd and booting to the card on startup.

    Why would I resurrect such a device? I use a chronograph for load
    development when reloading ammunition, and I made a USB to serial cable that allows me to view the data feed through PuTTY.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 01:24:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:37 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Jul 28 2020 09:38 am

    Maybe its just XP/IE? My desktop is from 2009, and web pages run OK. I an older graphics card too, a GTX 285.

    I guess it must have been missing the required plugins/scripts required by modern webpages.

    The GTX285 was an absolute beast back in the day!


    I've tried using Arachne with FreeDOS to view modern websites, and it pukes
    on all the extra content.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 01:35:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to MRO on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:55 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to HusTler on Mon Jul 27 2020 05:02 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: HusTler to Dreamer on Mon Jul 27 2020 09:46 am

    management for a while there, so I would not be surprised if most
    users don't know anything
    about virtual memory.

    Bullshit. Windows still uses too much memory.


    well i had a 1 ghz netbook with 1 gig of ram. it ran windows 7 and i was work on it.

    i had to lower the settings but still, the os had minimal ram and handled

    I don't know... last time I tried Windows 7 on virtual machines, with 1 gb o guest OSes really pushed memory consumption to the limits while close to idl

    I mean, you could operate within the 1 gb limit but it felt very wasteful wh

    I think Windows Vista is what got Windows its reputation for wasteful memory is said it cached so much stuff to RAM. At least that is what I have heard.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es


    Vista was alright if it was set up properly. Instead, the lower end hardware machines were sold with all the eye candy and widgets turned on. Back in the XP days my aunt and uncle purchased a Dell that had several high end
    features, except it sold with only 256mb of RAM. With all the bloatware running, it maxed out the memory. I upgraded it to a gig of ram with memory given to me by a friend who was building a new gaming system and it ran fine for several years.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Arelor on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 19:37:00
    Arelor wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to MRO on Tue Jul 28 2020 09:14 am

    MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Mon Jul 27 2020 09:35 pm

    with it but now I can't remember their names. :/ We make social
    connections many ways these days..

    I quite liked MSN Messenger, spoke to some interesting people there.
    Peo
    ple that I have no idea h
    I got into contact with them in the first place. People that I kept in
    c
    ontact with for years.


    i dont think people really communicate with strangers on social media.
    t
    hey voice their opinions.

    i get what you are saying. i used all those msgers and i used to talk to people for fun. i talked to some real cool people. those days are over. ---

    No they don't, which is odd, because you would think it is the easiest place
    to do so. You can easily
    get into a group with people who share an interest, moreso than other
    places.
    ..



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    I don't know, you can easily walk into #openbsd at a big IRC network
    and expect it to be full of people interested in OpenBSD. For example.

    But IRC is not exactly Average_User friendly so I will take the point, more or less.

    I was referring to Facebook specifically, and how this form of "Social Media" is less social in practice than MSN Messenger and IRC.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 19:47:00
    Nightfox wrote to Arelor <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to MRO on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:55 pm

    I think Windows Vista is what got Windows its reputation for wasteful memory management, though, since it is said it cached so much stuff to RAM. At least that is what I have heard.

    I agree that seems wasteful. But there seems to be the school of
    thought that unused RAM is wasted RAM (which I don't really agree
    with)..

    Unused RAM can be used for buffers to improve performance. It's zero cost, because as soon as that ram is needed, the buffers are flushed to disk.

    I was skeptical of this idea too, but switching to Linux I realised that it was true, unused RAM is a lost opportunity.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Moondog on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 06:17:00
    Moondog wrote to Dreamer <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 02:42 pm

    If you;re limited to to how many USB ports are on a laptop or want to
    run multiple displays along with the laptop display, you'll need more
    than what the laptop itself offers for ports. Of the laptops I've commonly run into, there's only 3, maybe 4 USB ports. Unless you use Bluetooth, a keyboard, mouse, printer and a thumb drive will take up
    your ports. i can run one big d isplay and the onboard display, but if
    I need dual 27" displays to do design work, I need a dock.

    Another advantage of a dock is you don't have to re-plug every device
    in your laptop or tablet each time. Remove the laptop and leave everything else set up.

    Right, a cheap dock these days would simply be a USB hub, which is what I
    use. I only have two USB ports and one HDMI.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 06:21:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dreamer <=-

    We almost got a C++ class, but no one wanted to learn game programming. I was pissed.

    I think it was the standard content for teaching object oriented programming with C++ in a Computer Science II class at the time.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Moondog on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 06:28:00
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Most YouTubers are annoying because they try to overplay personality traits overly animate their delivery in order to grab attention.

    I prefer a straight delivery, like LGR or Tim Pool.

    What is worse is when a Youtuber has very little personality, and their presentation of technical knowledge is less engaging as reading froma textbook. I like it when they mark the videos as to when certain
    events happen. The introduction and anecdotes are where personality
    ehlps bring in viewers.

    Speaking of straight delivery, Gaming Historian just released a documentary
    on Mario Paint. The depth of his research and analysis always astounds me. While I knew Mario Paint was popular, I never knew how capable a product it
    was at the time.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Vk3jed on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 06:36:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Moondog <=-

    On 07-24-20 15:29, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Drive space is no longer a premium item, and most systems, even the
    cheap ones, have more than enough drive space for using a swap file.

    I was talking more about the speed of access, rather than diskspace.
    In the old days on FAT16, fragmentation used to really hurt swap file performance. Modern filesystems and faster disks have helped, but SSD
    is even better in that regard.

    Also, we used to tweak the swap file in Windows 95 because Microsoft, for
    some reason, thought it was a good idea for the OS to constantly grow and shrink the swapfile. It tended to happen when you were actually using the system, and with most drives being rather slow in those days it would hit performance big time. So, we would uncheck "Let Windows Manage Swapfile" or whatever the option was, and set a sane value ourselves.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to HusTler on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 06:48:00
    HusTler wrote to Dreamer <=-

    Yep, it's still there. Windows got a lot better at memory management for a while there, so I would not be surprised if most users don't know anything about virtual memory.

    Bullshit. Windows still uses too much memory.

    I was referring to Windows 2000 through Windows 7, primarily. I suspect the memory bloat is from all the new features Microsoft started integrating into the
    OS.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 09:39:15
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Wed Jul 29 2020 07:47 pm

    Unused RAM can be used for buffers to improve performance. It's zero cost, because as soon as that ram is needed, the buffers are flushed to disk.

    I was skeptical of this idea too, but switching to Linux I realised that it was true, unused RAM is a lost opportunity.

    Makes sense, but how often do you need that? Also, one thing that's always important to know is how much RAM is available to run other applications. If all your RAM is being used, it can be hard to know if some of that is just buffers and cached data that could be used for something else. Also, large amouts of used RAM can be a sign of a memory leak somewhere.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 09:01:00
    Andeddu wrote to Arelor <=-

    Business computers are total workhorses, no wonder they all suffer from
    cosmetic wear and tear. I've seen many IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads over the
    years banged up with dents and scratches, but in full working order.

    Buy an old T4XX series laptop, work over the case with a magic
    eraser, buy a new keyboard for $20 on eBay, and you've got a like-new
    laptop.

    When you have it opened up, blow the air out of the fan, and replace
    the thermal paste if you're feeling up to it.

    I have gotten 12+ years of use out of my Thinkpads that way, and they
    all looked at least 8/10 after all that use.

    said for business users now as the majority of ThinkPads are below 15" with 13.3" being the most popular screen size.

    If you're talking about the business laptops, they sell a ton of
    laptops with a 14" screen - all of the T4/L4 series laptops of late.



    ... The exception also declares the rule
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 09:03:00
    Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    I thought they were fairly popular with computer users..

    Not any more - I had one in the '90s with a beige CRT monitor,
    mini-tower AT case, and a 386...



    ... The exception also declares the rule
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 09:10:00
    Arelor wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Nowadays I advice peope to buy a cheapo. If you are going to be
    unhappy, be unhappy for exchange money instead of kilobucks.

    I'm amazed at what mid-end phones have become. I've got a Motorola G7
    Supra (Cricket-branded G7 Power) and it's become a workhorse, with a
    ton of work apps alongside my personal apps, and it handles the load
    just fine.




    ... The exception also declares the rule
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 16:31:50
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:55 pm

    We really need to keep track of these predictions and check back later within 10 years! <G>

    Personally, I don't think 5G will get the traction that the pundits are proclaiming.

    There are still many concerns as to the long-term effects of 24/7
    exposure.

    For your note, I am not a 5G advocate. I was merely indicating that 5G is being rolled out very aggressively in Europe, USA and Asia, and it WILL be the predominent cell signal in the very near future.

    I am aware of the concerns, however these concerns --genuine or not-- are being dismissed as "conspiracy theory" and are not being taken seriously be the establishement. Government regulaters are not interested in evidence to the contrary...

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 16:40:39
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 29 2020 09:17 am

    Possibly. I haven't used IE in donkeys years. Haven't used it at home since the late 90s, and barely at work.

    The GTX 285 was great, I chose it over the GTX295 due to lower power usage (thought still high compared to the GT1030 I have now) and cost. But it was a beast. Was able to run Rage smoothly, but it would overheat a bit and cause my computer to poweroff in warm weather.

    I used it until it died a year or so ago.

    I solely use IE when on a PC... this is because I don't exceed more than 30 mins per week browsing on my computer. I know it's not the best, it's gotten worse tbh with Microsoft Edge; IE's replacement.

    The GTX285 was one of the definitive last-gen cards, the graphics card you'd use to run all last generation games at the highest fidelity/fps. The 1080GTX (for 1080p) is that card today. I remember back in 2010 I was gaming on a Alienware M11x... a very cute 11" gaming laptop with a GT335M. It was surprisingly powerful - I was able to play CoD MW 2, Starcraft II, Crysis, Deus EX: Human Revolution, SWTOR, etc... on reasonable settings. I still can't believe I put up with that 11" screen though! My current laptops 15" screen is positively colossal in comparison.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 17:10:48
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Tue Jul 28 2020 10:47 pm

    Cities maybe, but I would imagine there would still be rural areas and areas without habitation where there might be no cell signal at all. If you want to take a long road trip, I wouldn't rely on listening to streaming services in the car the whole way.

    Nightfox

    Of course there will be remote areas with no cell signal whatsoever, which is why I believe the majority of streaming services are going to allow the user to download songs/TV shows natively to their apps for the forseeable.

    I am like you though, I prefer CDs and USB sticks for music rather than streaming services. I can't justify spending 10 dollars per month just to listen to music - I have my principles.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Moondog on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 17:17:59
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Jul 29 2020 01:22 am

    I have a 900Mhz 701 EEE that came with the 4gb ssd. When trying to update it with Ubuntu, the installer would complain about the drive space limitation. For awhile I had it running either Ubuntu Netbook Remix or Easy Peazy, which were nice streamlined distros. I'm thinking about installing MATE on an SD ca rd and booting to the card on startup.

    Why would I resurrect such a device? I use a chronograph for load development when reloading ammunition, and I made a USB to serial cable that allows me to view the data feed through PuTTY.

    Apologies, I made a mistake... I checked the box with the retired machine inside and found that it's actually the EEE PC 900... the 9" model with a stonking 20GB SSD.

    Lol, that's a unique use for your old machine... I had to Google half of what you said in your last paragraph because it made little sense to me, a Brit. We don't really have access to guns/ammunition!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 16:13:14
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Jul 29 2020 05:10 pm

    I am like you though, I prefer CDs and USB sticks for music rather than streaming services. I can't justify spending 10 dollars per month just to listen to music - I have my principles.

    I still like to buy music on CD, though it has been years since I've actually played a CD to listen to it. Normally these days I'll rip a CD to FLAC and MP3 and play the MP3 files. But I like owning my own copy of music and playing it from something where I'm not relying on any external connection in order to play it.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 19:21:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Wednesday 29.07.20 - 12:10, andeddu wrote to Nightfox:

    I am like you though, I prefer CDs and USB sticks for music rather
    than streaming services. I can't justify spending 10 dollars per month
    just to listen to music - I have my principles.

    I had exactly that mentality too, especially back when iTunes was offering poor 128Kbps quality songs at $1 each. I thought *that* was robbery. Instead, I only purchased tunes from services that offered at least
    384Kbps.

    But.. after a little resistance, I actually settled with Spotify. I like looking up different cover versions of songs and compare them.

    Also, I can just tag specific songs by an artist and store them in a main songlist. Then from my own songbase, I can just play the tunes by Artist.

    It's rather nice to look up a tune instantly and play it.

    Spotify also allows playing tunes offline.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 20:14:00
    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Sunday 26.07.20 - 17:13, nightfox wrote to Andeddu:

    I don't really see streaming services as an adequate replacement for
    CDs & such, since you aren't going to have a good signal everywhere..

    Spotify, for example, allows you to play your collection offline.


    ...If you're driving, on a bus/train, or otherwise mobile, there will probably be spots where your connection will drop out.

    spotify allows offline play.


    ...So I'd think people would still be aware of file formats & such. I wouldn't imagine people would generally not know about saving things
    to files, as that's how our computers & other computing devices have
    always worked.. If they want to save a piece of music, podcast, etc.
    for offline playing, where do they think it's being saved?

    I don't care what Spotify's locally stored files look like, as long as it plays them when I want.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 21:38:02
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Tue Jul 28 2020 05:34 pm


    Around 12 years ago, I got to level 60 in WoW on an EEE PC 700 running Windows XP. It had a 7" screen, a crappy 1ghz processor and 512mb RAM. How times have changed!


    yeah if your video card sucks, they wont even let it run now.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 22:48:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Jul 29 2020 04:13 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Jul 29 2020 05:10 pm

    I am like you though, I prefer CDs and USB sticks for music rather
    than streaming services. I can't justify spending 10 dollars per
    month just to listen to music - I have my principles.

    I still like to buy music on CD, though it has been years since I've actually played a CD to listen to it. Normally these days I'll rip a CD to FLAC and MP3 and play the MP3 files. But I like owning my own copy of


    you must be the only guy in your state who still buys cds.

    i think the last time i bought a cd it was 2004 or earlier.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dreamer on Thursday, July 30, 2020 11:48:00
    On 07-29-20 06:36, Dreamer wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Also, we used to tweak the swap file in Windows 95 because Microsoft,
    for some reason, thought it was a good idea for the OS to constantly
    grow and shrink the swapfile. It tended to happen when you were

    Yes, and of course, it would get fragmented, making matters worse. The trick was to set the size of the swap file as soon as you had finished installing Windows.


    ... C:\BELFRY is where I keep my .BAT files. ^^^oo^^^
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 22:28:01
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 29 2020 10:48 pm

    I still like to buy music on CD, though it has been years since
    I've actually played a CD to listen to it. Normally these days I'll
    rip a CD to FLAC and MP3 and play the MP3 files. But I like owning
    my own copy of

    you must be the only guy in your state who still buys cds.

    i think the last time i bought a cd it was 2004 or earlier.

    Good for you.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 22:36:59
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Jul 29 2020 04:40 pm

    I solely use IE when on a PC... this is because I don't exceed more than 30 mins per week browsing on my computer. I know it's not the best, it's gotten worse tbh with Microsoft Edge; IE's replacement.

    I haven't used IE since maybe 2004 or so when Mozilla Firefox came out. I started to use IE originally when it seemed most web sites were designed to work in IE, and would work only in IE.. Not necessarily that IE was a great browser. I think Microsoft purposefully used to make IE behave slightly differently in order to leverage their marketshare and get web developers to develop their sites mainly for IE.

    I've never really been interested in using Edge since it came out..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ogg on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 22:41:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Wed Jul 29 2020 07:21 pm

    I had exactly that mentality too, especially back when iTunes was offering poor 128Kbps quality songs at $1 each. I thought *that* was robbery. Instead, I only purchased tunes from services that offered at least 384Kbps.

    I wouldn't want to buy music in any lossy compressed format, no matter what bit rate. I'd rather buy music in a lossless format like FLAC or on CD.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, July 30, 2020 05:33:33
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Tue Jul 28 2020 09:01 am

    Buy an old T4XX series laptop, work over the case with a magic
    eraser, buy a new keyboard for $20 on eBay, and you've got a like-new
    laptop.

    When you have it opened up, blow the air out of the fan, and replace
    the thermal paste if you're feeling up to it.

    I have gotten 12+ years of use out of my Thinkpads that way, and they
    all looked at least 8/10 after all that use.

    If you're talking about the business laptops, they sell a ton of
    laptops with a 14" screen - all of the T4/L4 series laptops of late.

    I've heard old ThinkPads are tanks that go on working forever - never owned one though. I like the look of them and would consider one for recrational web-browsing, however I use my iPad for that now.

    I agree, compressed air and thermal paste are all you need to add years to your laptop's lifespan. I still have an old machine from 2005 that's still in good working order.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 05:41:20
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Jul 29 2020 04:13 pm

    I still like to buy music on CD, though it has been years since I've actually played a CD to listen to it. Normally these days I'll rip a CD to FLAC and MP3 and play the MP3 files. But I like owning my own copy of music and playing it from something where I'm not relying on any external connection in order to play it.

    Nightfox

    I used to be very much against digital game downloads when Steam first came out back in 2003. I eventually stopped caring and haven't purchased any physical copies of PC games since 2012. I have continued to purchase physical only PS4/XboxONE titles, however I wouldn't be surprised if the big publishers make a concerted attempt to move to the platform holder's digital store. I'll probably reluctantly move away from the physical medium in everything shortly, as they're trying so hard to push us down that road.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Ogg on Thursday, July 30, 2020 05:45:09
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Wed Jul 29 2020 07:21 pm

    I had exactly that mentality too, especially back when iTunes was offering poor 128Kbps quality songs at $1 each. I thought *that* was robbery. Instead, I only purchased tunes from services that offered at least
    384Kbps.

    But.. after a little resistance, I actually settled with Spotify. I like looking up different cover versions of songs and compare them.

    Also, I can just tag specific songs by an artist and store them in a main songlist. Then from my own songbase, I can just play the tunes by Artist.

    It's rather nice to look up a tune instantly and play it.

    Spotify also allows playing tunes offline.

    Yeah, it's a nice little quality of life improvement. I currently sub to Netflix, Disney and YouTube which is costing me a considerable amount of cash per month. I'd consider Spotify or Apple Music once I drop one of the three.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 20:52:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Wed Jul 29 2020 07:47 pm

    Unused RAM can be used for buffers to improve performance. It's zero cost, because as soon as that ram is needed, the buffers are flushed to disk.

    I was skeptical of this idea too, but switching to Linux I realised that it was true, unused RAM is a lost opportunity.

    Makes sense, but how often do you need that? Also, one thing that's always important to know is how much RAM is available to run other applications. If all your RAM is being used, it can be hard to know if some of that is just buffers and cached data that could be used for something else. Also, large amouts of used RAM can be a sign of a
    memory leak somewhere.

    All the time! I noticed this when I switched to Linux, and was using a machine with 256M of RAM (which was a lot back then). In windows, if I started a program, then quit, then started it again, it would have to load again. But in Linux, if I was to quit a program, then restart it, it wouldn't use the disk. The binaries were already cached, so it was loading from RAM so to speak. Starting up programs the second time onwards was much faster.

    Now, if a program needs RAM, Linux just dumps stuff from the cache quickly, so it never competes with allocations, but it did result in faster performance. Most of the time, in a single session, most programs remain cached.

    The kernel keeps track of what is buffers, and what is an allocation.

    This is what my systems shows at the moment.

    total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 7962 1016 5257 26 1688 6651 Swap: 8191 2 8189

    buff/cache is previous programs I've loaded, still sitting in RAM, to be called upon straight away if I were to restart them.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 20:57:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Jul 29 2020 09:17 am

    Possibly. I haven't used IE in donkeys years. Haven't used it at home since the late 90s, and barely at work.

    The GTX 285 was great, I chose it over the GTX295 due to lower power usage (thought still high compared to the GT1030 I have now) and cost. But it was a beast. Was able to run Rage smoothly, but it would overheat a bit and cause my computer to poweroff in warm weather.

    I used it until it died a year or so ago.

    I solely use IE when on a PC... this is because I don't exceed more
    than 30 mins per week browsing on my computer. I know it's not the
    best, it's gotten worse tbh with Microsoft Edge; IE's replacement.

    The GTX285 was one of the definitive last-gen cards, the graphics card you'd use to run all last generation games at the highest fidelity/fps. The 1080GTX (for 1080p) is that card today. I remember back in 2010 I
    was gaming on a Alienware M11x... a very cute 11" gaming laptop with a GT335M. It was surprisingly powerful - I was able to play CoD MW 2, Starcraft II, Crysis, Deus EX: Human Revolution, SWTOR, etc... on reasonable settings. I still can't believe I put up with that 11"
    screen though! My current laptops 15" screen is positively colossal in comparison.


    An IE user? A rare breed!

    I'll probably get a GT1080 for my next PC. Just have to justify it. Really, the only new games I want to play are Doom (2016) and Doom Eternal, apart from that, the current PC suffices. Spending 1.5K to play two games doesn't make much sense.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Ogg on Thursday, July 30, 2020 21:16:00
    Ogg wrote to All <=-

    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Wednesday 29.07.20 - 12:10, andeddu wrote to Nightfox:

    I am like you though, I prefer CDs and USB sticks for music rather
    than streaming services. I can't justify spending 10 dollars per month just to listen to music - I have my principles.

    I had exactly that mentality too, especially back when iTunes was
    offering poor 128Kbps quality songs at $1 each. I thought *that* was robbery. Instead, I only purchased tunes from services that offered at least 384Kbps.

    But.. after a little resistance, I actually settled with Spotify. I
    like looking up different cover versions of songs and compare them.

    Also, I can just tag specific songs by an artist and store them in a
    main songlist. Then from my own songbase, I can just play the tunes by Artist.

    It's rather nice to look up a tune instantly and play it.

    Spotify also allows playing tunes offline.

    What does the artist get from Spotify? I'm old-fashioned, preferring CD where possible. If digital only, I'll go for a FLAC copy. Only once or twice did I have to settle for MP3.

    I rip the CD and usually listen to the OGG Vorbis file on the computer, but the CD does get used for the car and a home CD player. I also like liner notes and the artwork that comes with it.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 21:19:00
    Andeddu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Tue Jul 28 2020 09:01 am

    Buy an old T4XX series laptop, work over the case with a magic
    eraser, buy a new keyboard for $20 on eBay, and you've got a like-new
    laptop.

    When you have it opened up, blow the air out of the fan, and replace
    the thermal paste if you're feeling up to it.

    I have gotten 12+ years of use out of my Thinkpads that way, and they
    all looked at least 8/10 after all that use.

    If you're talking about the business laptops, they sell a ton of
    laptops with a 14" screen - all of the T4/L4 series laptops of late.

    I've heard old ThinkPads are tanks that go on working forever - never owned one though. I like the look of them and would consider one for recrational web-browsing, however I use my iPad for that now.

    I agree, compressed air and thermal paste are all you need to add years
    to your laptop's lifespan. I still have an old machine from 2005 that's still in good working order.

    I've got one Thinkpad that I bought second hand 2014, and its still going strong. Two previous ones did actually die on me. One had a faulty powersupply, and would very rapidly powercycle, which killed the CMOS. The second worked, but would lock up randomly, which I'm pretty sure was a hardware issue.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 05:39:10
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Jul 29 2020 10:36 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Jul 29 2020 04:40 pm

    I solely use IE when on a PC... this is because I don't exceed more than 30 mi
    per week browsing on my computer. I know it's not the best, it's gotten worse
    with Microsoft Edge; IE's replacement.

    I haven't used IE since maybe 2004 or so when Mozilla Firefox came out. I started
    use IE originally when it seemed most web sites were designed to work in IE, and wo
    work only in IE.. Not necessarily that IE was a great browser. I think Microsoft
    purposefully used to make IE behave slightly differently in order to leverage their
    marketshare and get web developers to develop their sites mainly for IE.

    I've never really been interested in using Edge since it came out..

    Nightfox


    Now they are bringing Edge to Linux, I find it interesting, because that would allow
    some corporative computers that need Edge yes or yes run native Linux.

    I think the whole place I work in has a single Windows computer which somebody in
    accounting uses for accesing a government website that only supports IE and Edge. *

    * Excluding some diagnostics machines that use WIndows EMbedded as firmware.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Warpslide@VERT/NRBBS to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 08:37:00
    On 29 Jul 2020, Nightfox said the following...

    I haven't used IE since maybe 2004 or so when Mozilla Firefox came out. I ed to use IE originally when it seemed most web sites were designed to wor E, and would work only in IE..

    I remember using IE 4 back in the day thinking it was so good & kept
    upgrading as they were released. Once tabs because a thing I switched over
    to FireFox and then eventually Chrome.

    I've never really been interested in using Edge since it came out..

    I tried it when it first came out, but didn't see the point. The new Edge based on Chrome isn't half bad but isn't good enough to make me switch.

    Jay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 08:50:40
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 05:41 am

    I used to be very much against digital game downloads when Steam first came out back in 2003. I eventually stopped caring and haven't purchased any physical copies of PC games since 2012. I have continued to purchase physical only PS4/XboxONE titles, however I wouldn't be surprised if the big publishers make a concerted attempt to move to the platform holder's digital store. I'll probably reluctantly move away from the physical medium in everything shortly, as they're trying so hard to push us down that road.

    I've been buying digital games on Steam for a while, and I don't really mind. A while ago, I found that Steam had a backup feature that let you save local backups of the games you've purchased on Steam - So you could move the backup to a USB drive, burn it to an optical disc, etc.. I think the backups were in a format that you could later use Steam to re-install the game from your backup rather than from Steam's servers. I don't know if Steam still has that feature now though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dennisk on Thursday, July 30, 2020 08:52:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:52 pm

    All the time! I noticed this when I switched to Linux, and was using a machine with 256M of RAM (which was a lot back then). In windows, if I started a program, then quit, then started it again, it would have to load again. But in Linux, if I was to quit a program, then restart it, it wouldn't use the disk. The binaries were already cached, so it was loading

    Back when I started out using MS-DOS, I learned a lot from my dad, who was always a computer guy. He had a disk cache driver/program for DOS that would basically do that - It would cache data & programs from the HD into RAM, and you could specify the size you wanted for the disk cache.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Thursday, July 30, 2020 08:53:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 05:39 am

    Now they are bringing Edge to Linux, I find it interesting, because that would allow some corporative computers that need Edge yes or yes run native Linux.

    I think the whole place I work in has a single Windows computer which somebody in accounting uses for accesing a government website that only supports IE and Edge. *

    * Excluding some diagnostics machines that use WIndows EMbedded as firmware.

    This may be a silly question, but does anyone really need Edge or IE anymore?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Warpslide on Thursday, July 30, 2020 08:55:54
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Warpslide to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:37 am

    I remember using IE 4 back in the day thinking it was so good & kept upgrading as they were released. Once tabs because a thing I switched over to FireFox and then eventually Chrome.

    When IE 4 came out in the 90s, I think I was still using Netscape Navigator. Netscape was the first browser I had started using, and I liked it and didn't really see the point in switching to another browser, even if it did come with Windows.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 08:04:00
    Andeddu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I've heard old ThinkPads are tanks that go on working forever - never owned one though. I like the look of them and would consider one for recrational web-browsing, however I use my iPad for that now.

    They're easy to work on, and parts are cheap - if you're handy and
    want to tinker, they're great.

    A 2 ghz single-core T43 with 2 GB of RAM and the 1400x1050 screen (I
    think that's the rez) is about as good as it gets with the old ones.
    The next step up is the dual-core T60, but the build quality isn't
    the same. That was about the time that Lenovo took over from IBM and
    started branding them as Lenovo.




    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 08:56:00
    Andeddu wrote to MRO <=-

    Around 12 years ago, I got to level 60 in WoW on an EEE PC 700 running Windows XP. It had a 7" screen, a crappy 1ghz processor and 512mb RAM.
    How times have changed!

    I remember when the first DOOM came out, around 1994 or so. A 486
    with a good graphics card could play decent full screen, but a couple
    of people had 386es with 8 MB of RAM and old 256mb VGA graphics, and
    they'd play with the screen shrunk down to about 5x7".


    ... What context would look right?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 12:40:35
    On 2020-07-30 11:52 a.m., Nightfox wrote:

    Back when I started out using MS-DOS, I learned a lot from my dad, who was always a computer guy. He had a disk cache driver/program for DOS that would basically do that - It would cache data & programs from the HD into RAM, and you could specify the size you wanted for the disk cache.

    Yeah, back then Ram disk where a thing, less today. But a few year ago
    for an io intensive process that was slow, the quick fix i suggessested
    was to simply use a ram disk. The younger ones didn't knew what it was :-D

    did the job !

    Yeah for ram cache

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Thursday, July 30, 2020 11:51:18
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 12:40 pm

    Back when I started out using MS-DOS, I learned a lot from my dad, who
    was always a computer guy. He had a disk cache driver/program for DOS
    that would basically do that - It would cache data & programs from the
    HD into RAM, and you could specify the size you wanted for the disk
    cache.

    Yeah, back then Ram disk where a thing, less today. But a few year ago for an io intensive process that was slow, the quick fix i suggessested was to simply use a ram disk. The younger ones didn't knew what it was :-D

    It wasn't a RAM disk - it didn't have a drive letter for stuff you could copy files into, it was just a cache. You'd set up how much RAM you wanted it to use, and it would work in the background to cache data which would speed things up a bit.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Thursday, July 30, 2020 16:28:37
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Wed Jul 29 2020 09:38 pm

    yeah if your video card sucks, they wont even let it run now.

    That's a small mercy. It wasn't a good experience by any means, I just did it out of curiosity.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 16:38:20
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Jul 29 2020 10:36 pm

    I haven't used IE since maybe 2004 or so when Mozilla Firefox came out. I started to use IE originally when it seemed most web sites were designed to work in IE, and would work only in IE.. Not necessarily that IE was a great browser. I think Microsoft purposefully used to make IE behave slightly differently in order to leverage their marketshare and get web developers to develop their sites mainly for IE.

    I've never really been interested in using Edge since it came out..

    I never really understood the hate for IE... it's fairly well optimsed, runs all web-pages well, the formatting is decent, etc... I did a lot of web-browsing back in 2010-2013 on an Alienware M11x laptop with a ultra low-voltage CPU and it was still fairly snappy, granted it was W7 I was using and not the crap that came out after. Since 2013 I've been a heavy tablet/phone user for recreational web-browsing... I have purchased 4 seperate iPads since then and 3 iPhones.

    Edge has a slighyly different layout than IE and messes with my muscle memory. I don't use it enough to build any sort of connection with it, so I don't think I'll ever grow to like it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 17:04:32
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Ogg on Wed Jul 29 2020 10:41 pm

    I wouldn't want to buy music in any lossy compressed format, no matter what bit rate. I'd rather buy music in a lossless format like FLAC or on CD.

    I am guilty of purchasing music on iTunes too. I have accepted that Apple is my phone/tablet company I am loyal to, so have placed all my eggs in that one basket. I've only ploughed around 150 dollars into music over the past 5-6 years and a further 150 dollars into other apps. If I want to jump ship, it won't be a massive problem - I'll just lose all my media.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Thursday, July 30, 2020 17:13:18
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:57 pm

    An IE user? A rare breed!

    I'll probably get a GT1080 for my next PC. Just have to justify it.
    Really, the only new games I want to play are Doom (2016) and Doom Eternal, apart from that, the current PC suffices. Spending 1.5K to play two games doesn't make much sense.

    I am totally vanilla when it comes to using computers. I have never tried Linux or anything like that. I just stick with whatever is packaged with Windows, which just happens to be IE.

    The GTX1080 is a very capable card. My current thin and light laptop has a GTX1080 and it cruises most games today. It's still a 1080p card though so I wouldn't be going above that resolution if you're wanting to maintain the highest graphical fidelity. I reckon the GTX1080 will be capable as an early next-generation card, it should run the new engines such as UE5 reasonably well. The PS5 and Xbox Series X will obviously crush a PC like that but they're running 4x the resolution, which is a waste of horse-power in my opinion!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 16:25:23
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:53 am

    This may be a silly question, but does anyone really need Edge or IE anymore?

    Yes - you need an easy way to get and install chrome or firefox on a new format ;)
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 17:16:02
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Thu Jul 30 2020 05:13 pm

    I am totally vanilla when it comes to using computers. I have never tried Linux or anything like that. I just stick with whatever is packaged with

    most linux guis are just trying to copy windows.
    there are some cool programs that make things pretty but i dont think you need to run linux.

    if you want to run a server, i highly recommend linux.
    regarding your browser, i use opera, firefox, chrome, and edge.

    edge does this thing now where it loads chrome plugins, which is cool.
    i love addons.
    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 17:57:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:53 am

    This may be a silly question, but does anyone really need Edge or IE anymore?

    Nightfox

    Yes.

    Some Spaniard sites from the government whose use is mandatory for big chunks of the
    population support IE/Edge only.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 17:26:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Moondog on Wed Jul 29 2020 05:17 pm



    Apologies, I made a mistake... I checked the box with the retired machine inside and found that it's actually the EEE PC 900... the 9" model with a stonking 20GB SSD.

    Lol, that's a unique use for your old machine... I had to Google half of wha you said in your last paragraph because it made little sense to me, a Brit. don't really have access to guns/ammunition!

    I think it's called Satterly testing, where you increas the powder charge by
    a few grains for each round up to the point where pressure signs may show,
    and instead of being a linear increase in velocity, you will notice spots
    where the velocity increases in smaller increments. These are called
    harmonic nodes, and the precision of the rounds put on paper tends to be tighter as well. When a node is detected on a graph, you can load to finer increments to find exactly where the center of that node sits. Any slight variations in loading or other assembly factors doesn't result in major
    changes downrange. The chronograph sit about 3 meters in front of the rifle, and the bullet flies over two optical sensors and calculates the velocity in feet per second. The maker of the Chrony sells an external display and a
    tiney thermal printer which records result, but I seen online where it's
    plain serial traffic and crafted a USB to serial cable with a 3.5mm stereo
    plug that goes in the Chrony. I can also send console commands to the Chrony and pull strings of 10, and average velocities of the 10 shot strings.

    ---
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  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Thursday, July 30, 2020 20:22:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Thursday 30.07.20 - 12:04, andeddu wrote to Nightfox:

    I am guilty of purchasing music on iTunes too. I have accepted that
    Apple is my phone/tablet company I am loyal to, so have placed all my
    eggs in that one basket. I've only ploughed around 150 dollars into
    music over the past 5-6 years and a further 150 dollars into other apps.
    If I want to jump ship, it won't be a massive problem - I'll just lose
    all my media.


    There are ways to convert the files so that you can play them any way you like.

    I have used TuneBite (now called Audials) from day one.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 01:29:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:50 am

    I've been buying digital games on Steam for a while, and I don't really mind. A while ago, I found that Steam had a backup feature that let you save local backups of the games you've purchased on Steam - So you could move the backup to a USB drive, burn it to an optical disc, etc.. I think the backups were in a format that you could later use Steam to re-install the game from your backup rather than from Steam's servers. I don't know if Steam still has that feature now though.

    That's a nice feature I didn't know existed. If you had the Steam client offline and you were able to re-install these games from a backup drive, that's fairly pro-consumer.

    ---
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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, July 31, 2020 01:35:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:56 am

    I remember when the first DOOM came out, around 1994 or so. A 486
    with a good graphics card could play decent full screen, but a couple
    of people had 386es with 8 MB of RAM and old 256mb VGA graphics, and
    they'd play with the screen shrunk down to about 5x7".

    The 486DX2 my dad had was solid enough to play DooM 1 and 2 on a full screen however I had to shrink the window whenever playing Duke Nukem 3D... that game kicked the system's ass!

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 22:13:27
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 01:29 am


    That's a nice feature I didn't know existed. If you had the Steam client offline and you were able to re-install these games from a backup drive, that's fairly pro-consumer.


    i dont think they have that now.
    it would be a great way for piracy. you can trick it to think it's connecting to a server.
    ---
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  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 18:21:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Makes sense, but how often do you need that? Also, one thing that's always important to know is how much RAM is available to run other applications. If all your RAM is being used, it can be hard to know if some of that is just buffers and cached data that could be used for something else. Also, large amouts of used RAM can be a sign of a
    memory leak somewhere.

    I believe Windows reports how much RAM is cached program data in the performance panel of Task Manager. Linux will report this as well in the terminal, for instance 'free', 'top', 'htop', etc.

    For Task Manager, off the top of my head, I don't believe "used" memory includes the cache. Cached data will be dumped if Windows needs the
    memory for more immediate tasks like loading programs.



    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Thursday, July 30, 2020 18:36:00
    Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I haven't used IE since maybe 2004 or so when Mozilla Firefox came out.
    I started to use IE originally when it seemed most web sites were designed to work in IE, and would work only in IE.. Not necessarily
    that IE was a great browser. I think Microsoft purposefully used to
    make IE behave slightly differently in order to leverage their
    marketshare and get web developers to develop their sites mainly for
    IE.

    Yep, that's pretty much it.

    It's becoming history, now. The JavaScript book in my classes when I first started teaching still taught students browser detection with IE workarounds, but I don't bother with that anymore. Developers got very annoyed with not having a standard. I'm sure Microsoft came to appreciate web standards, including JavaScript standards, when they began developing their cloud
    systems.

    When they released Edge, they included a brand new JavaScript engine and
    tried to stay close to the standards. However, it's not easy to start from scratch, so they pretty much gave up and adopted Chromium.

    I've never really been interested in using Edge since it came out..

    The "new Edge" isn't bad at all. If you're a Google Chrome user, you'll
    hardly notice the difference, and you have access to the same web apps. I
    put it through the paces beginning early this year up until I dumped
    Windows, and I never felt the need to go back to Chrome. That's after using Chrome since it debuted.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 21:13:10
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 04:38 pm

    necessarily that IE was a great browser. I think Microsoft
    purposefully used to make IE behave slightly differently in order to
    leverage their marketshare and get web developers to develop their
    sites mainly for IE.

    I never really understood the hate for IE... it's fairly well optimsed, runs all web-pages well, the formatting is decent, etc... I did a lot of

    IE6 in particular was criticized for having non-standard behavior, displaying some HTML elements incorrectly or differently, etc. Web developers had to take extra steps to ensure their web pages & sites worked properly with IE because it was just different. In other words, IE was a pain in the ass. But some web sites were made to only work in IE, when IE had a large percentage of usage share. As I had stated above, I think Microsoft purposefully made IE6 behave that way to use their (Microsoft's) market dominance to sort of force people to use IE rather than another web browser.

    The whole IE fiasco made me distrust Microsoft's web browser.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 21:22:29
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 05:04 pm

    I am guilty of purchasing music on iTunes too. I have accepted that Apple is my phone/tablet company I am loyal to, so have placed all my eggs in that one basket. I've only ploughed around 150 dollars into music over the past 5-6 years and a further 150 dollars into other apps. If I want to jump ship, it won't be a massive problem - I'll just lose all my media.

    I'm sure there are probably ways to convert your media to a different format without any digital rights management. With some conversions, you may lose a little bit of quality, but at least you'd still be able to play them.

    At the very least, if you really had to, you could probably play your music through a line-in cable and record the tracks in a different format on another device (though that wouldn't really be ideal). Alternately, I know at least on Windows, in an audio record app, you can usually select system audio as a recording source and record any audio playing on Windows (though that also isn't as ideal as directly converting an audio file from one format to another).

    I thought I had heard Apple dropped the digital rights a while ago, too. I wonder if you could re-download your media without digital rights management?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dreamer on Thursday, July 30, 2020 21:25:11
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 06:36 pm

    The "new Edge" isn't bad at all. If you're a Google Chrome user, you'll hardly notice the difference, and you have access to the same web apps. I put it through the paces beginning early this year up until I dumped Windows, and I never felt the need to go back to Chrome. That's after using Chrome since it debuted.

    If you're a Chrome user, why bother switching to Edge? One downside is that Edge only runs on Windows, while Google Chrome is made for Windows, Mac, and I believe Linux too..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Thursday, July 30, 2020 21:38:48
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Jul 31 2020 01:35 am

    The 486DX2 my dad had was solid enough to play DooM 1 and 2 on a full screen however I had to shrink the window whenever playing Duke Nukem 3D... that game kicked the system's ass!

    The first PC I ever built from scratch (with my first paycheck or 2 from my first job), in 1996, had an AMD "5x86" processor, which was a 486DX4-133. Duke Nukem 3D ran fairly well on that PC.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thursday, July 30, 2020 21:40:49
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 10:13 pm

    That's a nice feature I didn't know existed. If you had the Steam
    client offline and you were able to re-install these games from a
    backup drive, that's fairly pro-consumer.

    i dont think they have that now.
    it would be a great way for piracy. you can trick it to think it's connecting to a server.

    I just checked my Steam client on Windows, and with my library, there's an option in the "Steam" menu that says "Backup and Restore Games". So it seems that feature is still there.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to MRO on Thursday, July 30, 2020 23:47:43
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 10:13 pm

    That's a nice feature I didn't know existed. If you had the Steam
    client offline and you were able to re-install these games from a
    i dont think they have that now.
    it would be a great way for piracy. you can trick it to think it's connecting to a server. ---

    They most certainly do still have offline caching available and for re-install, but Steam's copy protection still requires an online connection to Steam to actually start the applications.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
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    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Underminer on Friday, July 31, 2020 01:29:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 04:25 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:53 am

    This may be a silly question, but does anyone really need Edge or IE anymore?

    Yes - you need an easy way to get and install chrome or firefox on a new for

    In order to view security camera feeds remotely from a DVR from a non-profit club I belong to the viewer app needs Edge or IE. I can enter the IP of the device, and it prompts for the username and password. Once in, an applet has
    to be cliked on, and it only works in IE or Edge. Firefox and Chrome try to run it with no success.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Friday, July 31, 2020 01:39:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 05:16 pm



    most linux guis are just trying to copy windows.
    there are some cool programs that make things pretty but i dont think you ne


    Some linux distros try to come close to the Windows gui, but that is more or less to help with standardization and commonality of feature locations than anything else. My favorite gui (gnome) looks more like OSX, where the task ba r is on top and the buttons to expland, close and minimize are up in the left corner. The unity scheme also works well with a launch bar on the left side.
    The bottom panel shows which apps are open ,plus allow access to multiple desktop tabs. This feature had been around in linux for nearly two decades, and just became a feature in Win10

    ---
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  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 19:57:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:52 pm

    All the time! I noticed this when I switched to Linux, and was using a machine with 256M of RAM (which was a lot back then). In windows, if I started a program, then quit, then started it again, it would have to load again. But in Linux, if I was to quit a program, then restart it, it wouldn't use the disk. The binaries were already cached, so it was loading

    Back when I started out using MS-DOS, I learned a lot from my dad, who
    was always a computer guy. He had a disk cache driver/program for DOS that would basically do that - It would cache data & programs from the
    HD into RAM, and you could specify the size you wanted for the disk
    cache.

    Nightfox

    A ramdisk? Or was it SMARTDRV?

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 31, 2020 19:59:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:57 pm

    An IE user? A rare breed!

    I'll probably get a GT1080 for my next PC. Just have to justify it.
    Really, the only new games I want to play are Doom (2016) and Doom Eternal, apart from that, the current PC suffices. Spending 1.5K to play two games doesn't make much sense.

    I am totally vanilla when it comes to using computers. I have never
    tried Linux or anything like that. I just stick with whatever is
    packaged with Windows, which just happens to be IE.

    The GTX1080 is a very capable card. My current thin and light laptop
    has a GTX1080 and it cruises most games today. It's still a 1080p card though so I wouldn't be going above that resolution if you're wanting
    to maintain the highest graphical fidelity. I reckon the GTX1080 will
    be capable as an early next-generation card, it should run the new
    engines such as UE5 reasonably well. The PS5 and Xbox Series X will obviously crush a PC like that but they're running 4x the resolution, which is a waste of horse-power in my opinion!

    I've gone for NVIDIA cards only because in the past the drivers were better for Linux, even though they were proprietary. What is their main competition like now?

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Friday, July 31, 2020 20:16:00
    Andeddu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 08:56 am

    I remember when the first DOOM came out, around 1994 or so. A 486
    with a good graphics card could play decent full screen, but a couple
    of people had 386es with 8 MB of RAM and old 256mb VGA graphics, and
    they'd play with the screen shrunk down to about 5x7".

    The 486DX2 my dad had was solid enough to play DooM 1 and 2 on a full screen however I had to shrink the window whenever playing Duke Nukem 3D... that game kicked the system's ass!

    When Doom came out, I had a 386 DX/20, with 4M of ram anda 65M hard drive (with double space intially). It BARELY run in low detail mode, quite chuggy, and with an Adlib card, I only had music and PC sound effects. But I persisted.

    One interesting thing I noted recently, was the video card makes a huge difference. I put a slow VGA card in a 486 DX2/66, and Doom didn't run at full speed, despite the CPU power.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Andeddu on Friday, July 31, 2020 20:32:00
    On 07-30-20 17:04, Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I am guilty of purchasing music on iTunes too. I have accepted that
    Apple is my phone/tablet company I am loyal to, so have placed all my
    eggs in that one basket. I've only ploughed around 150 dollars into
    music over the past 5-6 years and a further 150 dollars into other
    apps. If I want to jump ship, it won't be a massive problem - I'll just lose all my media.

    Hmm, why? They're just .m4a or .aac files and will play on anything (no DRM) that supports the format. I currently have a heap of iTunes purchases happily playing on my Android phone. You just have to manually copy the files from your iTunes folders or the Apple device to the phone. But I think I used an app to do the migration from Apple to Android, to save some tedious work. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 20:50:00
    On 07-30-20 21:13, Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

    IE6 in particular was criticized for having non-standard behavior, displaying some HTML elements incorrectly or differently, etc. Web developers had to take extra steps to ensure their web pages & sites worked properly with IE because it was just different. In other words,
    IE was a pain in the ass. But some web sites were made to only work in

    IE6 certainly had a reputation, with memes and all sorts of things going around about how most of a web app's development time was "getting the darned thing to work in IE". :D In the early 2000s, a number of government sites here only worked on IE, but these days, browser dependency is pretty much gone, and sites generally ask for a recent browser, and if they specify a particular browser, usualy Chrome, Firefox and Safari are at the top of the list, and Edge is usually on it. There's also a greater chance that an unsupported browser will actually work these days - seems everyone's sticking more to standards nowadays. :)

    IE, when IE had a large percentage of usage share. As I had stated
    above, I think Microsoft purposefully made IE6 behave that way to use their (Microsoft's) market dominance to sort of force people to use IE rather than another web browser.

    They called it "Embrace and extend" - embrace a standard, then extend it in a way that's incompatible with everything else.

    The whole IE fiasco made me distrust Microsoft's web browser.

    IE6 also had some very annoying bugs. One, which you'd only see in a corporate environment with domain controllers is that IE6 wouldn't accept proxy settings from Group Policy. It was a big Microsoft never fixed in IE6, but they did fix it in IE7. I had to run some startup script written in VBScriot to change the proxy settings, and as a back stop, I had any unproxied web requests redirected to a web server on the firewall with instructions of how to setup the proxy. It was an annoying issue that Microsoft never fixed in IE6. They just fixed IE7 instead. Problem is we had to run a lot of PCs with IE6 for some reason.

    The main reason we ran a proxy was so that the web quota system would count student traffic. When they ran out of credit, web browsing would be blockd, until they topped up. That system was quite good. The accounting was done by a software package running on one of the domain controllers. The quotas would be enforced by membership in a special group that was allowed Internet access, and running out of quota would cause that user to be removed from the group.

    The interesting thing is the actual proxy ran Squid on Linux. This was far superior and seamless, compared to the Windows solution they were using earlier. Samba was setup on the proxy server using WinBind to get AD account information, and the Squid proxy could directly query AD (via WinBind) in real time to see whether a user was allowed Internet access or not. The system could automatically create shell accouts and Samba shares for every user it knew. A Perl script ran periodically, looking for new users in AD that didn't have a local home directory on Linux, then created that directory, and populated it with .profile, etc. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 20:54:00
    On 07-30-20 21:22, Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

    I'm sure there are probably ways to convert your media to a different format without any digital rights management. With some conversions,
    you may lose a little bit of quality, but at least you'd still be able
    to play them.

    Apple hasn't had DRM encryption on music files for many years. They do have some sort of watermarking that they can use to track down the original purchaser, I'm led to believe. That, I can't verify.

    I thought I had heard Apple dropped the digital rights a while ago,
    too. I wonder if you could re-download your media without digital
    rights management?

    I didn't start buying from iTunes until Apple dropped DRM, so all of my Apple music files play perfectly well on my Android and the PCs.


    ... My karma just ran over your dogma.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Warpslide@VERT/NRBBS to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 09:07:00
    On 30 Jul 2020, Nightfox said the following...

    I thought I had heard Apple dropped the digital rights a while ago, too. er if you could re-download your media without digital rights management?

    Music yes, movies no.

    Jay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 09:48:00
    Nightfox wrote to Dreamer <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 06:36 pm

    The "new Edge" isn't bad at all. If you're a Google Chrome user, you'll hardly notice the difference, and you have access to the same web apps. I put it through the paces beginning early this year up until I dumped Windows, and I never felt the need to go back to Chrome. That's after using Chrome since it debuted.

    If you're a Chrome user, why bother switching to Edge? One downside is that Edge only runs on Windows, while Google Chrome is made for
    Windows, Mac, and I believe Linux too..

    That's the point. There's no need to switch browsers anymore. If you install
    a new Windows installation, the only reason I can think of to install Google Chrome is to be able to sign in to Google Chrome. I went ahead and imported
    all my Google Chrome settings, bookmarks, saved passwords, and so on, to
    Edge. It's just a personal choice for me; for anyone else, I can only state that functionally the two are very much similar, and I couldn't really recommend one over the other.

    Microsoft should be releasing a Linux port of Edge soon, and I think they've already released their Mac version. I'm currently using Google Chrome on
    Linux. As soon as Microsoft releases the Linux version, I plan on testing
    it, and if it functions as well as Edge on Windows, I'll probably stick with it.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dennisk on Friday, July 31, 2020 08:59:14
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 07:57 pm

    Back when I started out using MS-DOS, I learned a lot from my dad,
    who was always a computer guy. He had a disk cache driver/program
    for DOS that would basically do that - It would cache data &
    programs from the HD into RAM, and you could specify the size you
    wanted for the disk cache.

    A ramdisk? Or was it SMARTDRV?

    It wasn't a ramdisk (as there wasn't another drive you could copy stuff to). I had used smartdrv, but I remember using a 3rd-party disk cache too.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Friday, July 31, 2020 09:05:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 08:50 pm

    IE6 certainly had a reputation, with memes and all sorts of things going around about how most of a web app's development time was "getting the darned thing to work in IE". :D In the early 2000s, a number of government sites here only worked on IE, but these days, browser dependency is pretty much gone, and sites generally ask for a recent browser, and if they specify a particular browser, usualy Chrome, Firefox and Safari are at the top of the list, and Edge is usually on it. There's also a greater chance that an unsupported browser will actually work these days - seems everyone's sticking more to standards nowadays. :)

    Having standards to stick to was one of the main ideas of the web from the start. :) These days I've gotten to like Vivaldi (web browser), but still it seems that Google Chrome is the best for speed.

    They called it "Embrace and extend" - embrace a standard, then extend it in a way that's incompatible with everything else.

    Yep.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Friday, July 31, 2020 09:07:48
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 08:54 pm

    I thought I had heard Apple dropped the digital rights a while ago,
    too. I wonder if you could re-download your media without digital
    rights management?

    I didn't start buying from iTunes until Apple dropped DRM, so all of my Apple music files play perfectly well on my Android and the PCs.

    That's cool. I've mainly avoided buying digital download music for a long time, and have only bought maybe 2 songs from Apple (in 2004 or so); I've also bought a Mark Knopfler album direct from his web site that was in FLAC format (Mark Knopfler was the main guy behind the band Dire Straits; several years ago I went to see a Mark Knopfler concert, and they had recorded most of their shows on the tour and you could buy a music album from a specific show).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Warpslide on Friday, July 31, 2020 09:08:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Warpslide to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 09:07 am

    I thought I had heard Apple dropped the digital rights a while ago,
    too. er if you could re-download your media without digital rights
    management?

    Music yes, movies no.

    Ah, I see.
    One reason I still like to buy movies on optical media is that I can rip it myself and play it anywhere..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Underminer on Friday, July 31, 2020 11:36:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 2020 16:25:23


    This may be a silly question, but does anyone really need Edge or
    IE anymore?

    Underminer> Yes - you need an easy way to get and install chrome or
    Underminer> firefox on a new format ;)

    used to be pretty easy once you knew the majikal inkantashun...

    ftp ftp://blah.invalid/public/firefox/firefox-latest.zip
    unzip firefox-latest.zip
    install.exe

    the trick was knowing where to find the file and how to get it without using a browser ;)


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Friday, July 31, 2020 12:08:06
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Jul 31 2020 01:39 am

    Some linux distros try to come close to the Windows gui, but that is more or less to help with standardization and commonality of feature locations than anything else. My favorite gui (gnome) looks more like OSX, where the task ba r is on top and the buttons to expland, close and minimize are up in the left corner. The unity scheme also works well with a launch bar on the left side.

    I thought the Unity UI looked more like a tablet interface, which is why I don't like using Unity.. I don't think a tablet-like interface works very well on a desktop PC. I've heard some people say other Linux UIs "look like" Windows, and I suppose that's true to an extent, if you consider the taskbar & the main button on the left being similar to Windows.. Though as far as window appearance, etc., I don't really think they look like Windows.

    Currently my favorite Linux GUI is probably Cinnamon, which comes from the Mint Linux distro. I also think xfce is fairly decent (and is more lightweight compared to Cinnamon).

    In the early 2000s, I remember reading that KDE was designed to be like Windows and Gnome was a bit different, even though Gnome back then had the bottom taskbar with a main activity button.. I used Gnome for a long time until they changed the UI in Gnome 3.

    The bottom panel shows which apps are open ,plus allow access to multiple desktop tabs. This feature had been around in linux for nearly two decades, and just became a feature in Win10

    I think you can configure where the panels are & thigns too.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Friday, July 31, 2020 12:11:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Andeddu on Fri Jul 31 2020 08:32 pm

    Hmm, why? They're just .m4a or .aac files and will play on anything (no DRM) that supports the format. I currently have a heap of iTunes purchases happily playing on my Android phone. You just have to manually copy the files from your iTunes folders or the Apple device to the phone. But I think I used an app to do the migration from Apple to Android, to save some tedious work. :)

    Yeah, when I had an iPod Touch, I remember browsing it in my file explorer, and I found all the MP3 files had mangled names and were organized in folders with mangled names - at least, the names were mangled to me. I'm sure the names meant something to iOS and iTunes. But you basically have to use iTunes to manage your music on an iOS device. One thing I like about Android is that you can just copy the files to the device and and can organize it the way you want, so you don't have to go through any software like iTunes etc..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Dennisk on Friday, July 31, 2020 17:14:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Jul 31 2020 07:59 pm

    I've gone for NVIDIA cards only because in the past the drivers were better for Linux, even though they were proprietary. What is their main competition like now?

    Depends largely on use case. Arguably team green's drivers are still better on *nix, but team red's work just fine as long as you're not reliant on niche tweaking options. Though on the other side of that same equation, team green locks out the ability to pass through some cards to guest vms, where they work just fine for team red.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Saturday, August 01, 2020 00:35:50
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 05:16 pm

    most linux guis are just trying to copy windows.
    there are some cool programs that make things pretty but i dont think you need to run linux.

    if you want to run a server, i highly recommend linux.
    regarding your browser, i use opera, firefox, chrome, and edge.

    edge does this thing now where it loads chrome plugins, which is cool.
    i love addons.

    I have never used Linux because I have never NEEDED to use my computer for anything other than web-browsing, word-processing, instant-messengers and games. I am one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guys.

    If I still used web-browsers I'd look at some alternatives... but Edge is fine as it is. The pages load up quickly, it's smooth and the formatting is perfect. I guess that's all I can ask. I didn't like it to begin with because it's a minor change from IE which I had been using since '98.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Saturday, August 01, 2020 00:55:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 10:13 pm

    i dont think they have that now.
    it would be a great way for piracy. you can trick it to think it's connecting to a server.

    That's true... probably why they did away with it!

    I am an OG Steam user from 2003 and I have over 170 games attached to my account... if I lost it, my entire collection would disappear into the digital abyss.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 01:03:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 09:13 pm

    IE6 in particular was criticized for having non-standard behavior, displaying some HTML elements incorrectly or differently, etc. Web developers had to take extra steps to ensure their web pages & sites worked properly with IE because it was just different. In other words, IE was a pain in the ass. But some web sites were made to only work in IE, when IE had a large percentage of usage share. As I had stated above, I think Microsoft purposefully made IE6 behave that way to use their (Microsoft's) market dominance to sort of force people to use IE rather than another web browser.

    The whole IE fiasco made me distrust Microsoft's web browser.

    As a user only, I was never aware it was difficult to develop for. I saw people using Firefox, Chrome along with other less well known alternative browsers and always wondered why they bothered.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 01:22:32
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 09:22 pm

    I'm sure there are probably ways to convert your media to a different format without any digital rights management. With some conversions, you may lose a little bit of quality, but at least you'd still be able to play them.

    At the very least, if you really had to, you could probably play your music through a line-in cable and record the tracks in a different format on another device (though that wouldn't really be ideal). Alternately, I know at least on Windows, in an audio record app, you can usually select system audio as a recording source and record any audio playing on Windows (though that also isn't as ideal as directly converting an audio file from one format to another).

    I thought I had heard Apple dropped the digital rights a while ago, too. I wonder if you could re-download your media without digital rights management?

    I looked it up quickly and it does seem possible. I'd have to hook up the iPhone to my PC with iTunes installed (something I've never done before) and move my collection to the PC. From there you can hook up your Android phone and use another file management program to accept files from File Explorer.

    Seems a little convoluted, but at least it can be done!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 01:29:19
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 09:38 pm

    The first PC I ever built from scratch (with my first paycheck or 2 from my first job), in 1996, had an AMD "5x86" processor, which was a 486DX4-133. Duke Nukem 3D ran fairly well on that PC.

    I think it was probably the most advanced game of it's time... up until Quake was released. If I can recall correctly, games such as Rise of the Triad, Descent and Dark Forces, ran fine on my Dad's old system.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Dennisk on Saturday, August 01, 2020 01:44:08
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Jul 31 2020 07:59 pm

    I've gone for NVIDIA cards only because in the past the drivers were better for Linux, even though they were proprietary. What is their main competition like now?

    nVidia still dominate the high end gaming market. AMD have quite a few mid-level cards such as the RX5700-XT. It's apparently a halfway house between an nVidia GTX2050 Super and GTX2070. The card will still cost around 400 dollars alone which is still pretty steep when you compare the power of the upcoming consoles in relation to PCs.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 22:01:40
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 09:13 pm

    think Microsoft purposefully made IE6 behave that way to use their (Microsoft's) market dominance to sort of force people to use IE rather than another web browser.

    The whole IE fiasco made me distrust Microsoft's web browser.


    that was almost 20 years ago. now microsoft is the good guy and google wants to sell your info and so does facebook.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 22:04:29
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Dreamer on Thu Jul 30 2020 09:25 pm


    If you're a Chrome user, why bother switching to Edge? One downside is that Edge only runs on Windows, while Google Chrome is made for Windows, Mac, and I believe Linux too..


    chrome is a bloated piece of shit.

    ms edge runs on windows, macos, ios, android
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Friday, July 31, 2020 22:06:47
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Jul 30 2020 09:40 pm

    connecting to a server.

    I just checked my Steam client on Windows, and with my library, there's an option in the "Steam" menu that says "Backup and Restore Games". So it seems that feature is still there.


    see if it actually will let you do everything offline. i dont think it will. ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Friday, July 31, 2020 23:36:34
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 01:03 am

    The whole IE fiasco made me distrust Microsoft's web browser.

    As a user only, I was never aware it was difficult to develop for. I saw people using Firefox, Chrome along with other less well known alternative browsers and always wondered why they bothered.

    Even as a user, I was sometimes frustrated that some web sites only worked well in IE and didn't display well in other browsers.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Friday, July 31, 2020 23:38:50
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 01:22 am

    I looked it up quickly and it does seem possible. I'd have to hook up the iPhone to my PC with iTunes installed (something I've never done before) and move my collection to the PC. From there you can hook up your Android phone and use another file management program to accept files from File Explorer.

    With an Android phone, you shouldn't need any extra software. You can browse the filesystem of an Android device with the OS's native file explorer and just copy music files over to it.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Friday, July 31, 2020 23:39:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 01:29 am

    I think it was probably the most advanced game of it's time... up until Quake was released. If I can recall correctly, games such as Rise of the Triad, Descent and Dark Forces, ran fine on my Dad's old system.

    Descent was one of my favorite games. I liked Rise of the Triad too. I haven't heard of Dark Forces.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Friday, July 31, 2020 23:47:37
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Sat Aug 01 2020 12:35 am

    I have never used Linux because I have never NEEDED to use my computer for anything other than web-browsing, word-processing, instant-messengers and games. I am one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guys.

    You can do that with Linux too.. You don't need to use Linux for other types of stuff if you don't want to. I've seen some computers come with Linux pre-installed..

    If I still used web-browsers I'd look at some alternatives... but Edge is fine as it is. The pages load up quickly, it's smooth and the formatting

    Edge is a web browser.. What do you mean by "if I still used web browsers"?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, July 31, 2020 23:48:53
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 10:01 pm

    The whole IE fiasco made me distrust Microsoft's web browser.

    that was almost 20 years ago. now microsoft is the good guy and google wants to sell your info and so does facebook.

    I'm not sure if I fully trust any of them, Microsoft included.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to MRO on Saturday, August 01, 2020 01:58:49
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 10:01 pm

    that was almost 20 years ago. now microsoft is the good guy and google wants to sell your info and so does facebook. ---

    Nah, Microsoft wants a piece of that too, and they desperately want to move to forced subscription models on everything.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Andeddu on Saturday, August 01, 2020 19:13:00
    Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Jul 31 2020 07:59 pm

    I've gone for NVIDIA cards only because in the past the drivers were better for Linux, even though they were proprietary. What is their main competition like now?

    nVidia still dominate the high end gaming market. AMD have quite a few mid-level cards such as the RX5700-XT. It's apparently a halfway house between an nVidia GTX2050 Super and GTX2070. The card will still cost around 400 dollars alone which is still pretty steep when you compare
    the power of the upcoming consoles in relation to PCs.

    NVIDIA it is then. It's always worked for me, and I'm a creature of habit.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 19:17:00
    On 07-31-20 09:05, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Having standards to stick to was one of the main ideas of the web from
    the start. :) These days I've gotten to like Vivaldi (web browser),
    but still it seems that Google Chrome is the best for speed.

    I've settled on Firefox, because of its strong cross platform support.


    ... Genius is one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration. --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 19:21:00
    On 07-31-20 09:07, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I didn't start buying from iTunes until Apple dropped DRM, so all of my Apple music files play perfectly well on my Android and the PCs.

    That's cool. I've mainly avoided buying digital download music for a
    long time, and have only bought maybe 2 songs from Apple (in 2004 or
    so); I've also bought a Mark Knopfler album direct from his web site
    that was in FLAC format (Mark Knopfler was the main guy behind the band Dire Straits; several years ago I went to see a Mark Knopfler concert,
    and they had recorded most of their shows on the tour and you could buy
    a music album from a specific show).

    Hmm, I was a teenager in the 80s, so I knew a lot of the major bands then. Loved Dire Straits. I also remember they released one of the first rock CD albums (Brothers in Arms, IIRC), and I remember having a good listen to it at a hifi show in Melbourne. :)


    ... I am what I am - and that's not bad!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 19:23:00
    On 07-31-20 12:11, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, when I had an iPod Touch, I remember browsing it in my file explorer, and I found all the MP3 files had mangled names and were organized in folders with mangled names - at least, the names were

    Interesting, because iTunes uses something like Artist\Album\Song in its internal layout.

    mangled to me. I'm sure the names meant something to iOS and iTunes.
    But you basically have to use iTunes to manage your music on an iOS device. One thing I like about Android is that you can just copy the files to the device and and can organize it the way you want, so you
    don't have to go through any software like iTunes etc..

    Yes, Android is much nicer for organising music collections.


    ... Did the aliens forget to remove your anal probe?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From atroxi@VERT/CONCHAOS to Andeddu on Saturday, August 01, 2020 04:53:27
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Sun Jul 12 2020 07:02 pm


    I have a machine with a Voodoo 2 graphics card, and that graphic card has a composite out. I hooked that up to the monochrome monitor, and it worked! Well, not that well, the picture
    was distorted due to the differing refresh rate and resolution, but I was able to see Doom run on that green monochrome monitor, which is an interesting site to behold.

    Wow, I remember that 3dfx card back when in my school days. My friend had a Voodoo 2 3DFX card which he used on games like the original Half-Life, he was the envy of my small tech loving
    geek group until my dad purchased a monster Pentium III with a Geforce graphics card. Ah, seems like you're onto plums with your old case - such a shame!

    I agree, I feel more focused using this old machine. It's just one post at a time, no distractions. No constant adverts popping up, videos appearing in the corner of the screen or audacious
    banners - just rows and rows of lovely text. The internet's hayday was probably back in the early 2000s when broadband was widely available but web pages were largely unadulterated by
    corporate advertising & data collection programmes. This is probably why I am addicted to BBSing right now - it's like being transported back to a much happier pre-Facebook, Amazon and
    Google period in time.

    These old-school machines give you a much more raw and direct experience, it's like whenever Jeremy Clarkson gets into an 80s sports car, he always speaks of the lack of ABS,
    power-streetring and traction control enhancing his drive, it's a 1:1 man to machine interface with nothing in between.


    Certainly, I'm a 00s kid and I've certainly never have had the chance to experience BBSes in their heyday, I pretty much got introduced straight into the internet around 2007-2008. I do think that there's a certain charm in BBSes, it's more "raw" presentation as compared to the highly graphic filled, attention-grabbing, internet of today.

    Still getting my grips into the whole thing but so far I'm enjoying it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Seek mundanity's cure | conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS
  • From atroxi@VERT/CONCHAOS to calcmandan on Saturday, August 01, 2020 05:03:41
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: calcmandan to paulie420 on Mon Jul 13 2020 06:40 am

    These days I run Arch, usually with a flavor of KDE - but don't even boot into x. I find myself running startx less and less and less. :P

    Me too. What are your daily tools?

    For me it's tmux, emacs, fpc, emacs gnus, alpine, wordgrinder, fbi, fbgs, mplayer, lynx, links2, youtube-dl

    Wow, I've also been leaning lately towards the same way. I find myself in the terminal most of the time. Which is why I've been using a tiling window manager as it keeps everything as simple as possible.

    Since my work usually involve text-editing, I just mostly use vim and latex. I tried emacs before but I feel like I'm being sucked into the emacs black hole, where my current tools gets slowly replaced by emacs alternatives, but I do find emacs so easy to port especially when you configure your config in org mode as compared to vim.

    Hrm, choices... choices...

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Seek mundanity's cure | conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS
  • From atroxi@VERT/CONCHAOS to Ogg on Saturday, August 01, 2020 05:13:41
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Fri Jul 17 2020 09:16 pm

    Most of it is mindless crap such as TicToc, and short video chats. :(

    I very much agree to this, I find the current internet very uninspiring. It's as if, everything has been distilled to their bare "consumable" essentials. There are no meat or soul left in everything. I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old but I cherish the time that I just sit though a forum (I'm a bit young for BBSes :-)) and just read through the discussions about stuff and hopefully learn something new over of the course of doing so or witness a massive flame war.

    Now everything is just either endless scrolling down disconnected and detached posts and occassionally reading some outrage post or "liking" a slightly funny 5 second soundbyte of some dude doing something stupid.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Seek mundanity's cure | conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Saturday, August 01, 2020 09:10:00
    Hello Vk3jed!

    ** On Saturday 01.08.20 - 05:23, vk3jed wrote to Nightfox:

    On 07-31-20 12:11, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, when I had an iPod Touch, I remember browsing it in my file
    explorer, and I found all the MP3 files had mangled names and were
    organized in folders with mangled names - at least, the names were

    Interesting, because iTunes uses something like Artist\Album\Song in
    its internal layout.

    Yes.. the iTunes program stores files that way locally, on a pc. But once the files are copied/synced to a device, they are not designed to be
    copied back to the pc. :(

    The files on my iPod device are stored like this:

    /RawFileSytem/iTunesControl/Music/F00/ABTQ.m4a ..etc.

    I can use something like iFunBox to access the files and move things
    around, but the music file storage on the device looks like this:

    http://pics.rsh.ru/img/ipod-music-storage_7z8ayzff.jpg


    mangled to me. I'm sure the names meant something to iOS and iTunes.
    But you basically have to use iTunes to manage your music on an iOS
    device. One thing I like about Android is that you can just copy the
    files to the device and and can organize it the way you want, so you
    don't have to go through any software like iTunes etc..

    iTunes is actually a very feature rich music manager. But the program is designed to be "the master in control".


    Yes, Android is much nicer for organising music collections.

    I wouldn't know.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 12:14:23
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Jul 31 2020 11:38 pm


    With an Android phone, you shouldn't need any extra software. You can browse the filesystem of an Android device with the OS's native file explorer and just copy music files over to it.


    i'm not sure we have an OS native file browser. every phone i got had a different default file browser/explorer.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 12:15:32
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Jul 31 2020 11:48 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 10:01 pm

    The whole IE fiasco made me distrust Microsoft's web browser.

    that was almost 20 years ago. now microsoft is the good guy and
    google wants to sell your info and so does facebook.

    I'm not sure if I fully trust any of them, Microsoft included.



    well microsoft wants to sell TO you, not sell YOU.
    so in that, i trust.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Underminer on Saturday, August 01, 2020 12:16:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to MRO on Sat Aug 01 2020 01:58 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 10:01 pm

    that was almost 20 years ago. now microsoft is the good guy and
    google wants to sell your info and so does facebook. ---

    Nah, Microsoft wants a piece of that too, and they desperately want to move to forced subscription models on everything.


    they want to do subscription models because they want that money to keep rolling in. some of these cheap ass companies are running 20 year or older shit and still expecting support for it.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, August 01, 2020 11:56:01
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 07:17 pm

    Having standards to stick to was one of the main ideas of the web
    from the start. :) These days I've gotten to like Vivaldi (web
    browser), but still it seems that Google Chrome is the best for
    speed.

    I've settled on Firefox, because of its strong cross platform support.

    I used to use Firefox, and I liked it until they started changing its GUI to look more like Google Chrome. I later found Pale Moon, which is based on a fork of an earlier version of Firefox (3.x maybe?), so its UI is like earlier Firefox but they continued development on its own. These days I've been using Vivaldi more often though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, August 01, 2020 11:58:06
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 07:21 pm

    Hmm, I was a teenager in the 80s, so I knew a lot of the major bands then. Loved Dire Straits. I also remember they released one of the first rock CD albums (Brothers in Arms, IIRC), and I remember having a good listen to it at a hifi show in Melbourne. :)

    :) That's cool. I heard Brothers In Arms was one of the first CD albums that was recorded and mastered digitally in the studio. I read somewhere that they used some analog equipment in the process, for mixing or something. But I think the digital master makes a difference. Dire Straits' first album (from 1978) is one of my favorites, and when I listen to that one, I can hear some hiss in the quieter parts of the album. Brothers In Arms doesn't have any significant hiss to me.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, August 01, 2020 11:59:04
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 07:23 pm

    Yeah, when I had an iPod Touch, I remember browsing it in my file
    explorer, and I found all the MP3 files had mangled names and were
    organized in folders with mangled names - at least, the names were

    Interesting, because iTunes uses something like Artist\Album\Song in its internal layout.

    Yes, internally it organizes music like that. I imagine iTunes and iOS devices probably use some kind of internal database to map the filenames to artist/album/song based on the tags in the music files.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Saturday, August 01, 2020 12:00:32
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 12:14 pm

    With an Android phone, you shouldn't need any extra software. You
    can browse the filesystem of an Android device with the OS's native
    file explorer and just copy music files over to it.

    i'm not sure we have an OS native file browser. every phone i got had a different default file browser/explorer.

    I'm talking about the file browser on the computer you'd plug it into. When you plug an Android phone into a Windows PC, you can browse the Android device's filesystem with Windows Explorer on the PC. And you can copy MP3s to anywhere you want on the Android device and play the music with an app of your choice on the Android device.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to MRO on Saturday, August 01, 2020 20:56:02
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 10:06 pm

    see if it actually will let you do everything offline. i dont think it will.

    Someone has said that you have to be online when re-activating your games otherwise it's blocked by DRM... which kind of defeats the purpose.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 21:06:29
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Jul 31 2020 11:39 pm

    Descent was one of my favorite games. I liked Rise of the Triad too. I haven't heard of Dark Forces.

    Nightfox

    Dark Forces is the Star Wars game which spawned the iconic Jedi Knight series.

    Decent was very difficult, I don't think I got very far in it due to the controls... I had a mouse and keyboard, perhaps it would have been more amenable using a joystick or a joypad style input.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Andeddu on Saturday, August 01, 2020 16:17:12
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 09:06 pm

    Dark Forces is the Star Wars game which spawned the iconic Jedi Knight series.

    Ah, I think I had played Jedi Knight.

    Decent was very difficult, I don't think I got very far in it due to the controls... I had a mouse and keyboard, perhaps it would have been more amenable using a joystick or a joypad style input.

    I had often played Descent with just a keyboard. For a while, I had a joystick I used with Descent and got fairly good with the joystick, but for some reason I ended up going back to the keyboard. I haven't tried a mouse with Descent.

    Several years ago, I found out that the Descent engine was made open-source, and there's a project called DXX-Rebirth where someone has ported Descent and Descent 2 to modern operating systems. You can copy all the old levels from the original Descent & Descent 2 CD-ROMs and play those on modern operating systems. I was playing through Descent & Descent 2 on Windows 10 for a while.
    https://www.dxx-rebirth.com

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Andeddu on Saturday, August 01, 2020 17:54:40
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Sat Aug 01 2020 08:56 pm

    Someone has said that you have to be online when re-activating your games otherwise it's blocked by DRM... which kind of defeats the purpose.

    Not at all. The purpose isn't archive, it's to avoid needing network bandwidth to pull the whole install down for metered or slow connections. For that, it works exactly as intended.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Nightfox on Saturday, August 01, 2020 18:03:09
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Aug 01 2020 04:17 pm

    Several years ago, I found out that the Descent engine was made open-source, and there's a project called DXX-Rebirth where someone has ported Descent and Descent 2 to modern operating systems. You can copy all 2 on Windows 10 for a while. https://www.dxx-rebirth.com

    NIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCEEEE.... .Totally going to play around with this.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Andeddu on Saturday, August 01, 2020 21:21:24
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Sat Aug 01 2020 08:56 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 10:06 pm

    see if it actually will let you do everything offline. i dont think
    it will.

    Someone has said that you have to be online when re-activating your games otherwise it's blocked by DRM... which kind of defeats the purpose.

    yeah that's not something i would really want. i really dont like steam. and i dont like the validation shit i get sometimes when i login with what they think is a different computer. it's very annoying.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Underminer on Saturday, August 01, 2020 21:23:46
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to Andeddu on Sat Aug 01 2020 05:54 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to MRO on Sat Aug 01 2020 08:56 pm

    Someone has said that you have to be online when re-activating your
    games otherwise it's blocked by DRM... which kind of defeats the
    purpose.

    Not at all. The purpose isn't archive, it's to avoid needing network bandwidth to pull the whole install down for metered or slow connections. For that, it works exactly as intended.


    most of us have decent internet speeds so downloading a big game doesnt really take long, though.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Vk3jed on Sunday, August 02, 2020 12:37:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Nightfox <=-

    On 07-31-20 09:05, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Having standards to stick to was one of the main ideas of the web from
    the start. :) These days I've gotten to like Vivaldi (web browser),
    but still it seems that Google Chrome is the best for speed.

    I've settled on Firefox, because of its strong cross platform support.


    I've been using Brave and am quite happy with it.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to MRO on Sunday, August 02, 2020 00:38:36
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Underminer on Sat Aug 01 2020 09:23 pm

    most of us have decent internet speeds so downloading a big game doesnt really take long, though. ---

    Yes, most of us do, but that feature is there for those who don't :)
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sunday, August 02, 2020 01:04:14
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Andeddu on Sat Aug 01 2020 09:21 pm

    yeah that's not something i would really want. i really dont like steam. and i dont like the validation shit i get sometimes when i login with what they think is a different computer. it's very annoying.

    What is it about Steam that you wouldn't really want it? I think Steam can be fairly handy for what it is. I've bought several games from Steam, and it's convenient to be able to download the games rather than having to go out to a store and buy it (though sometimes I do miss buying PC games in a store). Also, Steam has done some significnat work in bringing PC gaming to Linux.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sunday, August 02, 2020 01:06:05
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Underminer on Sat Aug 01 2020 09:23 pm

    most of us have decent internet speeds so downloading a big game doesnt really take long, though.

    Some games can be fairly large. One of the games I've bought from Steam is currently using about 93GB on my PC. That can still take a bit of time to download with a broadband internet connection.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sunday, August 02, 2020 21:22:00
    On 08-01-20 11:56, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I used to use Firefox, and I liked it until they started changing its
    GUI to look more like Google Chrome. I later found Pale Moon, which is based on a fork of an earlier version of Firefox (3.x maybe?), so its
    UI is like earlier Firefox but they continued development on its own. These days I've been using Vivaldi more often though.

    As long as I can actually use it, the UI isn't that big a deal with me. :)


    ... Alert: Scanner shows Sysop in the area. Look innocent!!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sunday, August 02, 2020 21:28:00
    On 08-01-20 11:58, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    :) That's cool. I heard Brothers In Arms was one of the first CD
    albums that was recorded and mastered digitally in the studio. I read somewhere that they used some analog equipment in the process, for

    That rings a bell, and I'm sure it was a reason this particular CD was used at the hifi show. I remember enjoying the crisp and clean sound from the CD. I'm not one of those vinyl sound fans, I'm too sensitive to the IMD (several percent) on that medium, that many people are insensitive to.

    mixing or something. But I think the digital master makes a
    difference. Dire Straits' first album (from 1978) is one of my
    favorites, and when I listen to that one, I can hear some hiss in the quieter parts of the album. Brothers In Arms doesn't have any
    significant hiss to me.

    Yes, the digital master would certainly help. Analog mixers can be very transparent, compared to a recording and playback system. One only had to look at the specs of a typical turntable of the day, compared to an amplifier. The CD player's specs looked more like those of a typical amp. Professional tape decks were a bit better than domextic equipment, but still closer to the turntable than the CD player.


    ... And then there was the guy who stuffed Corn Flakes in the serial port.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sunday, August 02, 2020 21:30:00
    On 08-01-20 11:59, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yes, internally it organizes music like that. I imagine iTunes and iOS devices probably use some kind of internal database to map the
    filenames to artist/album/song based on the tags in the music files.

    Yes, iTunes does seem to use metadata tags to organise its collection.


    ... The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dennisk on Sunday, August 02, 2020 21:30:00
    On 08-02-20 12:37, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've been using Brave and am quite happy with it.

    There's a few browsers around that I've never heard of these days.


    ... Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Sunday, August 02, 2020 08:38:46
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 12:15 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Jul 31 2020 11:48 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 10:01 pm

    The whole IE fiasco made me distrust Microsoft's web browser.

    that was almost 20 years ago. now microsoft is the good guy and
    google wants to sell your info and so does facebook.

    I'm not sure if I fully trust any of them, Microsoft included.



    well microsoft wants to sell TO you, not sell YOU.
    so in that, i trust.

    That used to be the case, but I doubt it is the case anymore. Since Windows 10 they have been switching their business model quite a bit when it comes to domestic users.

    And to enterprises, since they are marketing lots of Linux based stuff, but that is a different subject :-P

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Sunday, August 02, 2020 10:45:13
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 12:55 am

    i think windows normally uses disk for caching. way too often in my opinion.

    I think you mean "uses disk for swapping (virtual memory)". The idea of "caching" is to temporarily store something in a faster medium. Disk is the generally the slowest medium on a computer, so about the only thing you could "cache" to disk would be data from an even *slower* medium, like optical media.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #56:
    PETSCII = PET Standard Code of Information Interchange (a.k.a. CBM ASCII) Norco, CA WX: 88.4øF, 36.0% humidity, 1 mph NW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sunday, August 02, 2020 12:28:25
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Thu Jul 30 2020 09:13 pm


    IE6 in particular was criticized for having non-standard behavior, displaying some HTML elements incorrectly or differently, etc. Web developers had to take extra steps to ensure their web pages & sites


    but back then, nobody really followed standards.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sunday, August 02, 2020 10:57:07
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun Aug 02 2020 09:30 pm

    Yes, internally it organizes music like that. I imagine iTunes and
    iOS devices probably use some kind of internal database to map the
    filenames to artist/album/song based on the tags in the music files.

    Yes, iTunes does seem to use metadata tags to organise its collection.

    I think Android media player apps tend to use metadata tags too. When I browse my music with my Android media player, it lets you browse by artist, album, etc., just like iTunes/iOS. The difference is that Android devices don't muck up the filenames. :)

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Sunday, August 02, 2020 12:46:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Underminer on Sat Aug 01 2020 12:16 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Underminer to MRO on Sat Aug 01 2020 01:58 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Jul 31 2020 10:01 pm

    that was almost 20 years ago. now microsoft is the good guy and
    google wants to sell your info and so does facebook. ---

    Nah, Microsoft wants a piece of that too, and they desperately want to move to forced subscription models on everything.


    they want to do subscription models because they want that money to keep rol

    It's also harder to crack a license and distribute copies when there's no physcical media.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Andeddu on Sunday, August 02, 2020 12:58:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 01 2020 09:06 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Jul 31 2020 11:39 pm

    Descent was one of my favorite games. I liked Rise of the Triad too. I haven't heard of Dark Forces.

    Nightfox

    Dark Forces is the Star Wars game which spawned the iconic Jedi Knight serie

    Decent was very difficult, I don't think I got very far in it due to the controls... I had a mouse and keyboard, perhaps it would have been more amenable using a joystick or a joypad style input.


    Dark Forces was a first person shooter similar to the engine used by Duke
    Nukem 3d.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Sunday, August 02, 2020 15:11:17
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Aug 02 2020 12:46 pm

    It's also harder to crack a license and distribute copies when there's no physcical media.

    Why would no physical media make a difference for cracking? A piece of software could still potentially be cracked, and people can distribute it any way they want - BitTorrent, hosting on a file server, giving a copy on a USB flash drive, etc..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Sunday, August 02, 2020 12:08:00
    Hello atroxi!

    ** On Saturday 01.08.20 - 04:53, atroxi wrote to Andeddu:

    Certainly, I'm a 00s kid and I've certainly never have had the chance
    to experience BBSes in their heyday, I pretty much got introduced
    straight into the internet around 2007-2008. I do think that there's a certain charm in BBSes, it's more "raw" presentation as compared to
    the highly graphic filled, attention-grabbing, internet of today.

    Some BBSes have very prominent graphic destinations. Have you visited
    Danger Bay?

    Some BBSes have ansi art galleries.


    Still getting my grips into the whole thing but so far I'm enjoying
    it.

    Good! As a youngun, what do you perceive to be the strengths and
    weaknesses of today's BBS scene? What would like to see happen?

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Sunday, August 02, 2020 19:54:00
    Hello Dennisk!

    ** On Monday 27.07.20 - 22:35, dennisk wrote to Nightfox:

    I don't know, most smartphone users I know have a love-hate
    relationship with their phones. They hate them because they work like
    crap but they love them because they can have social media with them
    everywhere.

    It's the candy-crush attraction of the cute and colorful icons and the
    shine of the touch screen design that mesmerizes the user into reaching
    for that device. It's the magic and convenience of a cordless phone and instant access to online resources that gives the sense of power which is hard to resist. ;)


    I don't think a smartphone should work like crap. My main
    frustration with smartphones is the virtual keyboard. I type much
    faster and more accurately on a real keyboard.

    Sounds like you might like to try the devices that feature a built-in keyboard. My BB Q10 keyboard feel amazing. I rarely miss a letter. But
    there is no way I would type something like *this* message with it.

    My BB Q10 replies are usually, just: OK, DONE, Thank you. Got it. or.. a smiley.


    One thing I used to like about ICQ was that you could fill out a
    small user profile and search for a random chat partner anywhere in
    the world using ICQ. I met some interesting people that way and
    talked to them online. Sometimes I feel like it's a bummer that I've
    lost contact with all of them. I remember talking to people in
    various countries with it but now I can't remember their names. :/
    We make social connections many ways these days..

    It is a shame you can't find and reconnect with those same people you
    enjoyed conversing with. I wonder if there is a facebook page of ICQ
    numbers that might have the name that you might recall. But then, there
    is also the possibility that those same people are not around anymore.


    Despite Facebook being a much larger audience, it doesn't seem to
    result in conversations.

    It has become an all about me culture. It's a one way flow of data. More
    and more younger people probably think that's all there is.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ogg on Sunday, August 02, 2020 19:57:44
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 02 2020 07:54 pm

    I don't think a smartphone should work like crap. My main
    frustration with smartphones is the virtual keyboard. I type much
    faster and more accurately on a real keyboard.

    Sounds like you might like to try the devices that feature a built-in keyboard. My BB Q10 keyboard feel amazing. I rarely miss a letter. But there is no way I would type something like *this* message with it.

    Around 2013, I had a smartphone with a buit-in keyboard. The screen would slide to the side to reveal the keyboard. I could type more accurately on it, but it was still nothing like typing on a real keyboard on a computer. I had a touch-typing class in 8th grade, and since then I've been able to type fairly fast on a real keyboard. Even if a smartphone has a real keyboard, it's much too small to touch-type on.

    Also, I haven't seen any smartphones with a real keyboard since then.. So it seems there aren't any options these days.

    One thing I used to like about ICQ was that you could fill out a
    small user profile and search for a random chat partner anywhere in
    the world using ICQ. I met some interesting people that way and
    talked to them online. Sometimes I feel like it's a bummer that
    I've lost contact with all of them. I remember talking to people in
    various countries with it but now I can't remember their names. :/
    We make social connections many ways these days..

    It is a shame you can't find and reconnect with those same people you enjoyed conversing with. I wonder if there is a facebook page of ICQ numbers that might have the name that you might recall. But then, there is also the possibility that those same people are not around anymore.

    Unfortunately, it has been so long that I don't remember most of their names. And even if they were still around somewhere, I'm not sure if they'd remember be or not. "I'm that guy in Oregon (USA) who you used to talk to." :P

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Atroxi@VERT to Ogg on Sunday, August 02, 2020 20:45:26
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 02 2020 12:08 pm

    Hi Ogg!

    Hello atroxi!

    ** On Saturday 01.08.20 - 04:53, atroxi wrote to Andeddu:

    Certainly, I'm a 00s kid and I've certainly never have had the chance
    to experience BBSes in their heyday, I pretty much got introduced straight into the internet around 2007-2008. I do think that there's a certain charm in BBSes, it's more "raw" presentation as compared to
    the highly graphic filled, attention-grabbing, internet of today.

    Some BBSes have very prominent graphic destinations. Have you visited Danger Bay?

    Some BBSes have ansi art galleries.


    Oh wow, I haven't looked into that. I should check that out. But I think I was being a sour grape when I typed that and was meaning to sneer at how webpages nowadays seem to have more whitespace rather than actual text or whatnot placed into them. I was just thinking right now how websites, especially news sites around 2009-2011, used to be really efficient with their front pages. But now it's all just big text, big pictures that would require you to play with their weird, slow and animated menus to even find what you want to see. (And most of then even killed their atom feed!)


    Still getting my grips into the whole thing but so far I'm enjoying
    it.

    Good! As a youngun, what do you perceive to be the strengths and
    weaknesses of today's BBS scene? What would like to see happen?


    That's a difficult question you've thrown me, haha! Right now I feel as if I haven't even scratched 10% of what BBSes can do. But if I'm going with what I currently know and have experienced. I think BBSes today gives me that feeling of reading through forums around 2009-2010 before Facebook took over. Specifically it's giving me a sense of persistence and community. That I'm able to have substantial, long conversations with other people and it's a good thing I think. With regards to weaknesses, I think it's just a matter of me figuring out how things work. Though even at that front, certain BBSes have been quite helpful in helping me understand the certain nooks and crannies that are, at first, quite eccentric such as message threading or downloading files.

    I haven't even played any games yet! But that will come for sure.

    What I would like to see happen? Who knows? The fact that something like this still exists today gives me a sense of venturing towards the great unknown where anything can happen and I think such a thing would be exciting. :-)

    Cheers,
    Atroxi

    ---
    "I hate this story, men that are about to face their demise frantically search for a meaning in their existence."
    -*- a small site: atroxi.neocities.org -*-
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Atroxi on Monday, August 03, 2020 19:28:00
    Atroxi wrote to Ogg <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 02 2020 12:08 pm

    Hi Ogg!

    Hello atroxi!

    ** On Saturday 01.08.20 - 04:53, atroxi wrote to Andeddu:

    Certainly, I'm a 00s kid and I've certainly never have had the chance
    to experience BBSes in their heyday, I pretty much got introduced straight into the internet around 2007-2008. I do think that there's a
    ce
    rtain charm in BBSes, it's more "raw" presentation as compared to
    the highly graphic filled, attention-grabbing, internet of today.

    Some BBSes have very prominent graphic destinations. Have you visited Danger Bay?

    Some BBSes have ansi art galleries.


    Oh wow, I haven't looked into that. I should check that out. But I
    think I was being a sour grape when I typed that and was meaning to
    sneer at how webpages nowadays seem to have more whitespace rather than actual text or whatnot placed into them. I was just thinking right now
    how websites, especially news sites around 2009-2011, used to be really efficient with their front pages. But now it's all just big text, big pictures that would require you to play with their weird, slow and animated menus to even find what you want to see. (And most of then
    even killed their atom feed!)


    Still getting my grips into the whole thing but so far I'm enjoying
    it.

    Good! As a youngun, what do you perceive to be the strengths and
    weaknesses of today's BBS scene? What would like to see happen?


    That's a difficult question you've thrown me, haha! Right now I feel as
    if I haven't even scratched 10% of what BBSes can do. But if I'm going with what I currently know and have experienced. I think BBSes today
    gives me that feeling of reading through forums around 2009-2010 before Facebook took over. Specifically it's giving me a sense of persistence
    and community. That I'm able to have substantial, long conversations
    with other people and it's a good thing I think. With regards to weaknesses, I think it's just a matter of me figuring out how things
    work. Though even at that front, certain BBSes have been quite helpful
    in helping me understand the certain nooks and crannies that are, at first, quite eccentric such as message threading or downloading files.

    I haven't even played any games yet! But that will come for sure.

    What I would like to see happen? Who knows? The fact that something
    like this still exists today gives me a sense of venturing towards the great unknown where anything can happen and I think such a thing would
    be exciting. :-)

    Cheers,
    Atroxi

    Hi Atroxi,

    Definately look into an offline QWK reader. Even if you remain online while you read and reply, its better because you can use your own selected text editor.

    I don't get the excessive white space in website either. Might have to do with people having widescreen monitors, and web pages looking awkward if the text was to fill it from side to side.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Monday, August 03, 2020 18:56:00
    On 08-02-20 10:57, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I think Android media player apps tend to use metadata tags too. When
    I browse my music with my Android media player, it lets you browse by artist, album, etc., just like iTunes/iOS. The difference is that
    Android devices don't muck up the filenames. :)

    Yes, Android seems even more dependent on metadata. Songs that had an artist in iTunes (presumably deduced from the filename), come up on my Android phone as "Unknown Artist" for the artist.


    ... Ambition is the last refuge of the failure.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Digital Man on Monday, August 03, 2020 20:12:00
    On 08-02-20 10:45, Digital Man wrote to MRO <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 22 2020 12:55 am

    i think windows normally uses disk for caching. way too often in my opinion.

    I think you mean "uses disk for swapping (virtual memory)". The idea of "caching" is to temporarily store something in a faster medium. Disk is the generally the slowest medium on a computer, so about the only thing you could "cache" to disk would be data from an even *slower* medium,
    like optical media.

    Or for for writing to live cloud storage (i.e. not using syncing). Latency and WebDAV often make cloud storage much slower than local disk, so a disk based cache makes sense here.


    ... You're sick, sick, sick. How can you continue to write such drivel?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Atroxi@VERT to Dennisk on Monday, August 03, 2020 03:57:59
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Atroxi on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:28 pm

    Hi Dennisk,

    Hi Atroxi,

    Definately look into an offline QWK reader. Even if you remain online while you read and reply, its better because you can use
    your own selected text editor.


    This sounds neat, I would love to have my trusty vim instead of a sort-of nano style screen editor that's being provided by default. :-)

    I don't get the excessive white space in website either. Might have to do with people having widescreen monitors, and web pages
    looking awkward if the text was to fill it from side to side.

    Yeah, I think "whitespace" isn't the right choice of words for me there. I'm mostly pointing out at how modern webpages nowadays tend to waste screen space by making things unecessarily bigger and complicated than they should be. So I guess it's more "cluttered"?

    I was thinking earlier of modern news websites, though certainly not limited to, where they seem to have replaced the simple text blocks and simple <img> tags with huge text fonts and fancy website elements in their pages. Simple hyperlink menus for categories are replaced with fiddly, slow, animated menus that can't stay put for longer than 3 seconds. That language design, in my opinion, just makes the browsing experience visually cluttered, cumbersome and downright painful.

    I don't know, maybe I just like websites that are mostly text with simple pictures and plain hyperlinks.


    Cheers,
    Atroxi

    ---
    "Whatever happens, happens."
    |--------------------------------------|
    -+- a small site: atroxi.neocities.org -+-
    |--------------------------------------|
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Atroxi on Monday, August 03, 2020 21:50:00
    Atroxi wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Atroxi on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:28 pm

    Hi Dennisk,

    Hi Atroxi,

    Definately look into an offline QWK reader. Even if you remain online while
    you read and reply, its better because you can use
    your own selected text editor.


    This sounds neat, I would love to have my trusty vim instead of a
    sort-of nano style screen editor that's being provided by default. :-)

    I use Multimail, and you can configure your own editor. I use Emacs myself, but it is simply a matter of changing the "editor" field in multimails configuration file to use whatever editor you like.

    I don't get the excessive white space in website either. Might have to do
    wi
    th people having widescreen monitors, and web pages
    looking awkward if the text was to fill it from side to side.

    Yeah, I think "whitespace" isn't the right choice of words for me
    there. I'm mostly pointing out at how modern webpages nowadays tend to waste screen space by making things unecessarily bigger and complicated than they should be. So I guess it's more "cluttered"?

    I was thinking earlier of modern news websites, though certainly not limited to, where they seem to have replaced the simple text blocks and simple <img> tags with huge text fonts and fancy website elements in
    their pages. Simple hyperlink menus for categories are replaced with fiddly, slow, animated menus that can't stay put for longer than 3 seconds. That language design, in my opinion, just makes the browsing experience visually cluttered, cumbersome and downright painful.

    I don't know, maybe I just like websites that are mostly text with
    simple pictures and plain hyperlinks.

    I do too prefer simpler websites. Many newer modern sites have a "minimal" design, but they are not fast and there is still a lot of underlying code and everything is animated, scrolls, its annoying. It is a far more complex way of doing what really should be simple. Autoplaying videos, eeessh!! Popups again??? Yes, I will accept cookies! No, I don't want you to know my location!
    Another pop up, floating widget?


    The early to late 2000's had good website design, and even some of the late 90's webpages are nice to read, though often the fonts looked a bit ugly and webpages were sometimes too busy with many popups. Actually, come to think of it, a lot of the bad practices of the early internet have come back again.

    Check this site out

    http://userinyerface.com

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Warpslide@VERT/NRBBS to Dennisk on Monday, August 03, 2020 09:25:00
    On 03 Aug 2020, Dennisk said the following...

    http://userinyerface.com

    Well that was horrible. I hope my eye stops twitching soon...

    Jay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON
  • From Atroxi@VERT to Dennisk on Monday, August 03, 2020 06:44:54
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Atroxi on Mon Aug 03 2020 09:50 pm

    I use Multimail, and you can configure your own editor. I use Emacs myself, but it is simply a matter of changing the "editor"
    field in multimails configuration file to use whatever editor you like.

    Yeah, I stumbled upon this too as well. I just compiled myself a copy of a while ago. I'll test it out later. :-)

    I do too prefer simpler websites. Many newer modern sites have a "minimal" design, but they are not fast and there is still a
    lot
    of underlying code and everything is animated, scrolls, its annoying. It is a far more complex way of doing what really should
    be simple.

    I think this is the crux of it all. I firmly believe that good minimal design is when you have nothing but the necessary elements present. But instead modern sites try to be minimal by adding more stuff in.

    Another pop up, floating widget?
    The early to late 2000's had good website design, and even some of the late 90's webpages are nice to read, though often the
    fonts
    looked a bit ugly and webpages were sometimes too busy with many popups. Actually, come to think of it, a lot of the bad
    practices
    of the early internet have come back again.

    I think so too as well. I really like the straightforwardness of late 2000s websites. It might not "wow" people that much with fancy graphics stuff, but it's functional, fast and it does what it's supposed to do.

    Check this site out

    http://userinyerface.com

    Thanks! Will check this out.

    ---
    "Whatever happens, happens."
    |--------------------------------------|
    -+- a small site: atroxi.neocities.org -+-
    |--------------------------------------|
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Monday, August 03, 2020 09:13:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 06:56 pm

    I think Android media player apps tend to use metadata tags too.
    When I browse my music with my Android media player, it lets you
    browse by artist, album, etc., just like iTunes/iOS. The difference
    is that Android devices don't muck up the filenames. :)

    Yes, Android seems even more dependent on metadata. Songs that had an artist in iTunes (presumably deduced from the filename), come up on my Android phone as "Unknown Artist" for the artist.

    I'm not sure where iTunes would be getting the information from other than the metadata in the MP3s (or other format they might be in).. It would have to be the same metadata read on Android devices.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Monday, August 03, 2020 10:59:00
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sun Aug 02 2020 03:11 pm

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Aug 02 2020 12:46 pm

    It's also harder to crack a license and distribute copies when there's physcical media.

    Why would no physical media make a difference for cracking? A piece of soft

    Nightfox

    If activation relies on an installer, lack of authorization may prevent the software from being downloaded. "Live" software such as Office 365 exists
    only on the cloud, and requires a sign-in. Downloaded components
    such as Office 2016 are licensed controlled through your account. Any
    future activations will require previous installs to be released from your cloud account.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Monday, August 03, 2020 13:17:12
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 10:59 am

    Why would no physical media make a difference for cracking? A piece
    of soft

    If activation relies on an installer, lack of authorization may prevent the software from being downloaded. "Live" software such as Office 365 exists only on the cloud, and requires a sign-in. Downloaded components such as Office 2016 are licensed controlled through your account. Any future activations will require previous installs to be released from your cloud account.

    Ah.. I was assuming you'd already have the full installer downloaded to your PC.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Atroxi on Tuesday, August 04, 2020 00:49:00
    Atroxi wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dennisk to Atroxi on Mon Aug 03 2020 09:50 pm

    I use Multimail, and you can configure your own editor. I use Emacs
    myself,
    but it is simply a matter of changing the "editor"
    field in multimails configuration file to use whatever editor you like.

    Yeah, I stumbled upon this too as well. I just compiled myself a copy
    of a while ago. I'll test it out later. :-)

    I do too prefer simpler websites. Many newer modern sites have a "minimal"
    d
    esign, but they are not fast and there is still a
    lot
    of underlying code and everything is animated, scrolls, its annoying. It is
    a far more complex way of doing what really should
    be simple.

    I think this is the crux of it all. I firmly believe that good minimal design is when you have nothing but the necessary elements present. But instead modern sites try to be minimal by adding more stuff in.

    Another pop up, floating widget?
    The early to late 2000's had good website design, and even some of the late
    9
    0's webpages are nice to read, though often the
    fonts
    looked a bit ugly and webpages were sometimes too busy with many popups.
    Actu
    ally, come to think of it, a lot of the bad
    practices
    of the early internet have come back again.

    I think so too as well. I really like the straightforwardness of late 2000s websites. It might not "wow" people that much with fancy graphics stuff, but it's functional, fast and it does what it's supposed to do.

    Check this site out

    http://userinyerface.com

    Thanks! Will check this out.

    The simpler design was no doubt more to do with the comparitive lack of power, and simpler frameworks, than a conscious decision. As computers got more powerful, and more technology was added to browsers, people wanted to exploit it, unecessarily.



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tuesday, August 04, 2020 20:39:00
    On 08-03-20 09:13, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'm not sure where iTunes would be getting the information from other
    than the metadata in the MP3s (or other format they might be in).. It would have to be the same metadata read on Android devices.

    I believe there is a filename format that if done right, some software recognises as containing the metadata.


    ... Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Tuesday, August 04, 2020 08:59:49
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Tue Aug 04 2020 08:39 pm

    I'm not sure where iTunes would be getting the information from
    other than the metadata in the MP3s (or other format they might be
    in).. It would have to be the same metadata read on Android
    devices.

    I believe there is a filename format that if done right, some software recognises as containing the metadata.

    The filename shouldn't matter.. The metadata is stored inside the file.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Tuesday, August 04, 2020 17:30:08
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:44 am

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 01:13 am

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved

    Windows still does that, as far as I know.

    Of course it does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_memory

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #80:
    TLS = Transport Layer Security (successor to SSL)
    Norco, CA WX: 80.3øF, 58.0% humidity, 12 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wednesday, August 05, 2020 15:27:00
    On 08-04-20 08:59, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    The filename shouldn't matter.. The metadata is stored inside the
    file.

    The filename is like a backup for some software, if the metadata isn't present (i.e. whoever encoded the file didn't add the metadata).


    ... I wrote my own benchmark. My machine is now 500GHz.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Wednesday, August 05, 2020 20:02:00
    Hello Andeddu!

    ** On Thursday 30.07.20 - 11:38, andeddu wrote to Nightfox:

    I never really understood the hate for IE... it's fairly well
    optimsed, runs all web-pages well, the formatting is decent, etc... I
    did a lot of web-browsing back in 2010-2013...

    IE had some glaring security issues. Malicious sites took advantage of
    IE's vulnerabilities.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, August 07, 2020 00:00:36
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:45 am

    Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I remember back in the days when Windows needed a "swap file" on the hard drive to act as additional memory. Some performance problesm were solved by d isbaling that feature, deleting the swap file, then re-enabling it. I recall a company sold a ram disk card that could be configured to act as storage of the swap file.

    Oh, the things we did when memory was measured in megabytes. ISA
    memory cards barely faster than disk, RAM disks in EMS memory...

    Megabytes?!? Heck.. kilobytes! But yeah, ramdisk.sys and smartdrv.sys were my friends.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #110:
    Weedpuller "Girl Upstairs" http://youtu.be/SVulVxkgNTo
    Norco, CA WX: 61.5øF, 86.0% humidity, 0 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to atroxi on Thursday, August 06, 2020 18:03:00
    atroxi wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: calcmandan to paulie420 on Mon Jul 13 2020 06:40 am

    These days I run Arch, usually with a flavor of KDE - but don't even boot into x. I find myself running startx less and less and less. :P

    Me too. What are your daily tools?

    For me it's tmux, emacs, fpc, emacs gnus, alpine, wordgrinder, fbi, fbgs,
    mpl
    ayer, lynx, links2, youtube-dl

    Wow, I've also been leaning lately towards the same way. I find myself
    in the terminal most of the time. Which is why I've been using a tiling window manager as it keeps everything as simple as possible.

    Since my work usually involve text-editing, I just mostly use vim and latex. I tried emacs before but I feel like I'm being sucked into the emacs black hole, where my current tools gets slowly replaced by emacs alternatives, but I do find emacs so easy to port especially when you configure your config in org mode as compared to vim.

    Yeah I made my bed long ago with emacs. Decided not to engage in the religious debate of emacs vs vim.

    Daniel Traechin
    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Atroxi@VERT to calcmandan on Saturday, August 08, 2020 12:39:00
    calcmandan wrote to atroxi <=-

    atroxi wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: calcmandan to paulie420 on Mon Jul 13 2020 06:40 am

    These days I run Arch, usually with a flavor of KDE - but don't even boot into x. I find myself running startx less and less and less. :P

    Me too. What are your daily tools?

    For me it's tmux, emacs, fpc, emacs gnus, alpine, wordgrinder, fbi, fbgs,
    mpl
    ayer, lynx, links2, youtube-dl

    Wow, I've also been leaning lately towards the same way. I find myself
    in the terminal most of the time. Which is why I've been using a tiling window manager as it keeps everything as simple as possible.

    Since my work usually involve text-editing, I just mostly use vim and latex. I tried emacs before but I feel like I'm being sucked into the emacs black hole, where my current tools gets slowly replaced by emacs alternatives, but I do find emacs so easy to port especially when you configure your config in org mode as compared to vim.

    Yeah I made my bed long ago with emacs. Decided not to engage in the religious debate of emacs vs vim.

    Daniel Traechin
    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world

    Yeah, that... religious war can be pretty rough sometimes. I also prefer not to get myself involved in any zealotry when it comes to text editors. I always take the stance that: "I use what works for me!" and leave it at that.

    ... 300 baud makes you wanna get out and shoot it.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Atroxi on Thursday, August 13, 2020 06:04:00
    Atroxi wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Yeah, that... religious war can be pretty rough sometimes. I also
    prefer not to get myself involved in any zealotry when it comes to text editors. I always take the stance that: "I use what works for me!" and leave it at that.

    Yeah. Surprisingly, there was never a similar debate on wysiwyg editors in the html web days. I suppose those days didn't last long enough.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Dreamer on Thursday, August 13, 2020 18:37:45
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Dreamer to Moondog on Thu Jul 23 2020 02:42 pm

    Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-

    Desktops nowadays tend to be used for specific purposes. Unless you have a docking station for a laptop (which for most intents turns the mobile laptop into a non-mobile desktop device) a desktop allows for usage of multiple dispays and other devices that are better off being stationary.

    A cheap docking solution is to simply plug in a keyboard, mouse, and the external monitor. They also sell docking adapters where you only plug in one or two wires and you get a complete set of docked ports (video, audio, network, keyboard, mouse, etc).

    You no longer need a proprietary docking solution.

    Especially now with USB-C: you can get power, video, USB, memory card I/O, all in one little dongle.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #13:
    Nigel Tufnel: You can't really dust for vomit.
    Norco, CA WX: 90.3øF, 19.0% humidity, 7 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Digital Man on Monday, August 17, 2020 03:15:54
    On 8/13/2020 6:37 PM, Digital Man wrote:

    Especially now with USB-C: you can get power, video, USB, memory card I/O, all in one little dongle.

    Haven't had much luck with the USB-C based docks at work. Sometimes
    video locks up, and have to open the laptop and see that it just hung on
    the dock... sometimes power charging doesn't work and the laptop just dies.

    At home, I have the charger directly a usb + hdmi through my kvm at my
    desk, which does good enough. I'm using a single large monitor so it
    works well enough for my use lately.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Monday, August 17, 2020 16:56:05
    Re: Re: This strange world
    By: Tracker1 to Digital Man on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:15 am


    At home, I have the charger directly a usb + hdmi through my kvm at my desk, which does good enough. I'm using a single large monitor so it works well enough for my use lately.


    so you have a huge display right? i was going to do that but i was leary.

    what specs do i need to look for so i can do desktop computing and gaming.
    i want everything clear like a smaller display
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  • From Atroxi@VERT to calcmandan on Thursday, August 13, 2020 20:57:00
    calcmandan wrote to Atroxi <=-

    Atroxi wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Yeah, that... religious war can be pretty rough sometimes. I also
    prefer not to get myself involved in any zealotry when it comes to text editors. I always take the stance that: "I use what works for me!" and leave it at that.

    Yeah. Surprisingly, there was never a similar debate on wysiwyg editors
    in the html web days. I suppose those days didn't last long enough.

    Daniel Traechin

    Yup, probably. Imagine some emacs and vim guys have been duking it out since the 80s, that's intergenerational warfare I tell you. Haha!

    ... Perhaps not so happy.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Atroxi on Saturday, August 22, 2020 18:25:00
    Atroxi wrote to calcmandan <=-

    calcmandan wrote to Atroxi <=-

    Atroxi wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Yeah, that... religious war can be pretty rough sometimes. I also
    prefer not to get myself involved in any zealotry when it comes to text editors. I always take the stance that: "I use what works for me!" and leave it at that.

    Yeah. Surprisingly, there was never a similar debate on wysiwyg editors
    in the html web days. I suppose those days didn't last long enough.

    Daniel Traechin

    Yup, probably. Imagine some emacs and vim guys have been duking it out since the 80s, that's intergenerational warfare I tell you. Haha!

    It's the crusades of the computer world. Just imagine if there was a competitor to the abacus.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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