• Bottom-posting etiquette

    From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to All on Monday, February 06, 2012 22:55:08
    Since I started using the internet, something that I've thought was interesting is peoples' attitudes toward bottom-posting vs. top-posting. On BBSs, it has always been customary to bottom-post, and that is also encouraged by the fact that BBS email software bottom-posts by default. This was also carried over to Usenet to some extent, but other internet messaging software (email, in particular) is usually made to top-post by default. Thus, when people reply to email, they usually top-post in their replies. And when such people go posting on Usenet (and sometimes on BBSs now), they top-post there, and flame wars ensue as people get annoyed.

    What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs & services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by default. So as many people argue with others not to top-post, many such top-posters don't realize it's bad at first because their software top-posts and they don't know any better. Also, as some software doesn't let you change how they post, it can be tiresome to bottom-post with them. Software that top-posts by default will insert a couple of blank lines at the top of the message and leave you at the top of the message, so you have to manually removing the first 2 lines they insert at the top of the message, then
    scroll all the way down to the bottom of the message in order to bottom-post.

    Another thing that I find strange, and a bit peculiar, is that the only places where it's even an issue is on BBSs and Usenet. When using internet email outside of the BBS realm, top-posting is the norm, and people don't make a fuss about it. Also, many news web sites allow people to post comments on articles, and many of them show the most recent comment first, akin to top-posting. That actually bugs me a little bit because when people reply to other comments, it's often hard to follow the conversations.

    I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it when someone does the opposite.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digdist.bbsindex.com
  • From art@VERT/FATCATS to Nightfox on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 07:53:51
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Nightfox to All on Mon Feb 06 2012 22:55:08

    Hey Nightfox,

    What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other
    people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame.

    +1. I use the "hybrid" method of quoting a few lines, then responding to that in context. And I have also seen my share of gripes about top/bottom/hybrid posting.

    I think it's a pretty stupid argument. Almost as stupid as someone mandating a single message client, or .sig syntax. If seeing a quote at the top/bottom/middle really annoys someone that much, I think they've got more serious issues... such as a general inability to be flexible.

    You wouldn't tell your grandma to fuck off for top/bottom posting, yet people seem to be more than happy to shout about it to strangers. Go figure. Definitely a double standard IMO.

    Kind regards,

    art@fatcatsbbsdotcom

    "Often-Wrong's got a broken heart .. can't even tell his boys apart."
    -- Lore in ST:TNG "Brothers"

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com
  • From Lord Time@VERT/TIME to Nightfox on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:22:00
    In a reply from Nightfox on 22:55 about Bottom-posting etiquette

    Since I started using the internet, something that I've thought was interesting is peoples' attitudes toward bottom-posting vs. top-posting. On BBSs, it has always been customary to bottom-post, and that is also encouraged by the fact that BBS email software bottom-posts by default.
    This was also carried over to Usenet to some extent, but other internet messaging software (email, in particular) is usually made to top-post by default. Thus, when people reply to email, they usually top-post in their replies. And when such people go posting on Usenet (and sometimes on BBSs now), they top-post there, and flame wars ensue as people get annoyed.

    What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs & services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by default.

    I have set into outlook expess (in settings) to use plane text not that html stuff, and a few web mail (other then sbbs - web side) I want plane text


    So as many people argue with
    others not to top-post, many such top-posters don't realize it's bad at first because their software top-posts and they don't know any better.
    Also, as some software doesn't let you change how they post, it can be tiresome to bottom-post with them. Software that top-posts by default will insert a couple of blank lines at the top of the message and leave you at the top of the message, so you have to manually removing the first 2 lines they insert at the top of the message, then scroll all the way down to the bottom of the message in order to bottom-post.

    I never got into top posting

    Another thing that I find strange, and a bit peculiar, is that the only places where it's even an issue is on BBSs and Usenet. When using internet email outside of the BBS realm, top-posting is the norm, and people don't make a fuss about it. Also, many news web sites allow people to post comments on articles, and many of them show the most recent comment first, akin to top-posting. That actually bugs me a little bit because when people reply to other comments, it's often hard to follow the conversations.

    I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it when someone does the opposite.

    yep

    ---
    Rob Starr
    Lord Time SysOp of Time Warp of the Future BBS
    telnet://time.synchro.net:24
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to art on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 12:48:04
    You wouldn't tell your grandma to fuck off for top/bottom posting, yet people seem to be more than happy to shout about it to strangers. Go
    figure. Definitely a double standard IMO.

    That's very true. I think people get too uptight about things like this sometimes.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digdist.bbsindex.com
  • From Access Denied@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 16:52:05
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Nightfox to All on Mon Feb 06 2012 10:55 pm

    What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs & services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by default. So as many people argue with

    The software defintely can take a partial blame to that as well. That said, some people are just lazy and don't change their settings even though they're the first people to pipe up when someone else doesn't follow "protocol". heh

    I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs
    and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it
    when someone does the opposite.

    It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I bottom post on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read that way.

    I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting AND plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email, along with the
    other html garble. :)

    --
    Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
    http://pharcyde.org

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ >> telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Access Denied on Tuesday, February 07, 2012 18:38:01
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Access Denied to Nightfox on Tue Feb 07 2012 16:52:05

    The software defintely can take a partial blame to that as well. That said, some people are just lazy and don't change their settings even though they'r the first people to pipe up when someone else doesn't follow "protocol". heh

    That's true.. But I'm not sure there is always a setting in the software. I've been using web-based email for quite a while (Gmail and Hotmail), and I don't recall seeing a setting in their preferences to toggle top-posting vs. bottom-posting when replying to emails.

    Also, if one person changes that, it may lead to very confusing emails - In a long thread, your reply would be on the bottom of text where everyone else had replied on top. Continuity would then be inconsistent.

    It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I bottom po on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read that way.

    Yep. I tend to follow the "when in Rome" rule when emailing people - If they bottom-post (or vice-versa), then I'll do so as well, to keep the flow consistent and less confusing. However, if I'm emailing someone on a BBS or from the BBS scene, I tend to always bottom-post because that's the norm in the BBS world.

    I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting AND plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email, along with other html garble. :)

    :) I used Thunderbird for a long time too. If you set it to plain email, do you still see a bunch of HTML tags in your emails, or does Thunderbird filter those out? I would tend to leave the HTML setting turned on, otherwise I'd get a bunch of HTML tags in my emails, which would make my email very difficult to read.

    I pretty much stopped using Thunderbird though, when I decided to stop using my ISP's email account and use Gmail as my primary email service. I know Thunderbird can connect to Gmail, but I decided to just use their web interface for consistency (I don't always check my Gmail account on my home computer).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digdist.bbsindex.com
  • From art@VERT/FATCATS to Nightfox on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 06:51:00
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Nightfox to art on Tue Feb 07 2012 12:48:04

    Hey NF,

    You wouldn't tell your grandma to fuck off for top/bottom posting, yet people seem to be more than happy to shout about it to strangers. Go figure. Definitely a double standard IMO.
    That's very true. I think people get too uptight about things like this sometimes.

    Aye, I consider a post/e-mail on the merits of the communication within, not the order of the quotations. Personally, I could care less whether it's top/mid/bottom. I do care that it's got a coherent, logical flow.

    I tend to find people who complain about top/bottom posting are generally using it as an excuse to start a flame war or other argument as a tangent.

    Regards,

    art@fatcatsbbsdotcom

    "What is it that you think that you're rescuing me from? My shipmates
    and I have all taken wives. A few even have children. You can't rescue
    a man from a place that he calls his home."
    -- Ramsey in ST:TNG "Angel One"

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com
  • From The Millionaire@VERT/PARKAVE to art on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 13:39:33
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: art to Nightfox on Wed Feb 08 2012 06:51 am

    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Nightfox to art on Tue Feb 07 2012 12:48:04

    Hey NF,

    You wouldn't tell your grandma to fuck off for top/bottom posting, yet people seem to be more than happy to shout about it to strangers. Go figure. Definitely a double standard IMO.
    That's very true. I think people get too uptight about things like this sometimes.

    Aye, I consider a post/e-mail on the merits of the communication within, not the order of the quotations. Personally, I could care less whether it's top/mid/bottom. I do care that it's got a coherent, logical flow.

    I tend to find people who complain about top/bottom posting are generally us it as an excuse to start a flame war or other argument as a tangent.

    Regards,

    art@fatcatsbbsdotcom

    "What is it that you think that you're rescuing me from? My shipmates
    and I have all taken wives. A few even have children. You can't rescue
    a man from a place that he calls his home."
    -- Ramsey in ST:TNG "Angel One"

    If I find an interesting topic to write about or add to a conversational
    thread then I'm game for it. I love talking to people who have a lot of intelligence and knowledge under their belt like me. I don't especially like losers who just get off on pissing someone off. It's not my cup of tea personally.

    $ The Millionaire $
    Park Avenue Place
    Surrey, B.C., Canada Û  Û


    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Park Avenue Place - parkave.synchro.net
  • From Access Denied@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 16:38:03
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Nightfox to Access Denied on Tue Feb 07 2012 06:38 pm

    That's true.. But I'm not sure there is always a setting in the software. I've been using web-based email for quite a while (Gmail and Hotmail), and
    I don't recall seeing a setting in their preferences to toggle top-posting vs. bottom-posting when replying to emails.

    I'm sure it's not common throughout different softwares or web-based email. It's one of those things that's added sporatically, and even if added, usually isn't the default setting.

    Also, if one person changes that, it may lead to very confusing emails - In a long thread, your reply would be on the bottom of text where everyone
    else had replied on top. Continuity would then be inconsistent.

    I've never had any complaints yet. Granted, when you reply to someone like this
    message for example, and you reply to segments of their original post, it let's
    them know what they hell you're replying to.

    The few times I have top posted.. by the time it got back to me I had forgotten
    everything the original message was about. So I just stick to my norm. :)

    Yep. I tend to follow the "when in Rome" rule when emailing people - If they bottom-post (or vice-versa), then I'll do so as well, to keep the flow consistent and less confusing. However, if I'm emailing someone on a BBS
    or from the BBS scene, I tend to always bottom-post because that's the norm in the BBS world.

    Meh, any time I top post it becomes more confusing. Just differs from the way I've always done it, I guess. I'm not going to change my ways to make anyone happy.. at least when it comes to something as minor as email. :)

    :) I used Thunderbird for a long time too. If you set it to plain email, do you still see a bunch of HTML tags in your emails, or does Thunderbird filter those out? I would tend to leave the HTML setting turned on, otherwise I'd get a bunch of HTML tags in my emails, which would make my email very difficult to read.

    It filters all of that out, and even adds >'s and >>'s (etc) to what you're replying to. Damn near exactly like a BBS.

    I pretty much stopped using Thunderbird though, when I decided to stop
    using my ISP's email account and use Gmail as my primary email service. I know Thunderbird can connect to Gmail, but I decided to just use their web interface for consistency (I don't always check my Gmail account on my home computer).

    You're not the only one. I know quite a few people that only use web-based email. I like having all of my addresses accessible through Thunderbird at one time. Though, from anywhere else, I could access any web-based email I wanted to as well.. which I usually don't, since I'm not around computers all day while at work, and when we're out and about, computers are one of my least concerns.

    --
    Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
    http://pharcyde.org

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ >> telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Access Denied@VERT/PHARCYDE to art on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 16:39:18
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: art to Nightfox on Wed Feb 08 2012 06:51 am

    I tend to find people who complain about top/bottom posting are generally using it as an excuse to start a flame war or other argument as a tangent.

    That and the fact that some people just have absolutely nothing better to do.

    --
    Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
    http://pharcyde.org

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ >> telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Owl@VERT/NIGHT to Access Denied on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 18:45:00
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Access Denied to Nightfox on Tue Feb 07 2012 04:52 pm

    I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it when someone does the opposite.

    It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I bottom po on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read that way.

    I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting AND plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email, along with other html garble. :)

    --
    Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
    http://pharcyde.org

    My wife loves bottom posting...whoops, wrong net.......


    NIGHTOWL BBS
    __________-------____ ____-------__________
    \------____-------___--__---------__--___-------____------/
    \//////// / / / / / \ _-------_ / \ \ \ \ \ \\\\\\\\/
    \////-/-/------/_/_| /___ ___\ |_\_\------\-\-\\\\/
    --//// / / / //|| (O)\ /(O) ||\\ \ \ \ \\\\--
    ---__/ // /| \_ /V\ _/ |\ \\ \__---
    -// / /\_ ------- _/\ \ \\-
    \_/_/ /\---------/\ \_\_/
    ----\ | /----
    | -|- |
    / | \
    ---- \___|
    night.synchro.net

    .

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ NightOwl BBS - night.synchro.net
  • From Dreamer@VERT to Nightfox on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 20:36:00
    Nightfox wrote to All <=-

    Since I started using the internet, something that I've thought was interesting is peoples' attitudes toward bottom-posting vs.
    top-posting. On BBSs, it has always been customary to bottom-post, and that is also encouraged by the fact that BBS email software
    bottom-posts by default. This was also carried over to Usenet to some extent, but other internet messaging software (email, in particular) is usually made to top-post by default. Thus, when people reply to email, they usually top-post in their replies. And when such people go
    posting on Usenet (and sometimes on BBSs now), they top-post there, and flame wars ensue as people get annoyed.

    I think it's mostly a result of technology moving along. In the early
    days, modems were slow, and some people might take a couple weeks or
    more before calling some systems, so it was just helpful to read the
    pertinent quote BEFORE the reply. Especially true for Fidonet
    messaging where it would take three days to a week for the
    conversation to make its rounds.

    Now, with people typically checking at least once a day, oftentimes
    more, and simple scrollbars on fast web browsers (not to mention pages
    long unthreaded discussions), the quotes have been de-prioritized to
    the bottom as mere reference.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From The Millionaire@VERT/PARKAVE to Access Denied on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 19:16:53
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Access Denied to Nightfox on Wed Feb 08 2012 04:38 pm

    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Nightfox to Access Denied on Tue Feb 07 2012 06:38 pm

    That's true.. But I'm not sure there is always a setting in the software I've been using web-based email for quite a while (Gmail and Hotmail), an I don't recall seeing a setting in their preferences to toggle top-postin vs. bottom-posting when replying to emails.

    I'm sure it's not common throughout different softwares or web-based email. It's one of those things that's added sporatically, and even if added, usual isn't the default setting.

    Also, if one person changes that, it may lead to very confusing emails - a long thread, your reply would be on the bottom of text where everyone else had replied on top. Continuity would then be inconsistent.

    I've never had any complaints yet. Granted, when you reply to someone like t message for example, and you reply to segments of their original post, it le them know what they hell you're replying to.

    The few times I have top posted.. by the time it got back to me I had forgot everything the original message was about. So I just stick to my norm. :)

    Yep. I tend to follow the "when in Rome" rule when emailing people - If they bottom-post (or vice-versa), then I'll do so as well, to keep the fl consistent and less confusing. However, if I'm emailing someone on a BBS or from the BBS scene, I tend to always bottom-post because that's the no in the BBS world.

    Meh, any time I top post it becomes more confusing. Just differs from the wa I've always done it, I guess. I'm not going to change my ways to make anyone happy.. at least when it comes to something as minor as email. :)

    :) I used Thunderbird for a long time too. If you set it to plain email do you still see a bunch of HTML tags in your emails, or does Thunderbird filter those out? I would tend to leave the HTML setting turned on, otherwise I'd get a bunch of HTML tags in my emails, which would make my email very difficult to read.

    It filters all of that out, and even adds >'s and >>'s (etc) to what you're replying to. Damn near exactly like a BBS.

    I pretty much stopped using Thunderbird though, when I decided to stop using my ISP's email account and use Gmail as my primary email service. know Thunderbird can connect to Gmail, but I decided to just use their we interface for consistency (I don't always check my Gmail account on my ho computer).

    You're not the only one. I know quite a few people that only use web-based email. I like having all of my addresses accessible through Thunderbird at o time. Though, from anywhere else, I could access any web-based email I wante to as well.. which I usually don't, since I'm not around computers all day while at work, and when we're out and about, computers are one of my least concerns.

    --
    Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
    http://pharcyde.org

    Yeah I think in my opinion Gmail is #1 for email. They make things nice and simple. Very clean interfacing as well. A smooth transition to Gmail and I
    was set up within 30 mins. :-)

    $ The Millionaire $
    Park Avenue Place
    Surrey, B.C., Canada Û  Û


    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Park Avenue Place - parkave.synchro.net
  • From The Millionaire@VERT/PARKAVE to Owl on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 19:17:58
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Owl to Access Denied on Wed Feb 08 2012 06:45 pm

    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Access Denied to Nightfox on Tue Feb 07 2012 04:52 pm

    I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BB and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywher else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about i when someone does the opposite.

    It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I bottom on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read that way.

    I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting A plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email, along wi other html garble. :)

    --
    Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
    http://pharcyde.org

    My wife loves bottom posting...whoops, wrong net.......


    NIGHTOWL BBS
    __________-------____ ____-------__________
    \------____-------___--__---------__--___-------____------/
    \//////// / / / / / \ _-------_ / \ \ \ \ \ \\\\\\\\/
    \////-/-/------/_/_| /___ ___\ |_\_\------\-\-\\\\/
    --//// / / / //|| (O)\ /(O) ||\\ \ \ \ \\\\--
    ---__/ // /| \_ /V\ _/ |\ \\ \__---
    -// / /\_ ------- _/\ \ \\-
    \_/_/ /\---------/\ \_\_/
    ----\ | /----
    | -|- |
    / | \
    ---- \___|
    night.synchro.net

    .

    LOL! :-P She's a bottom lover?

    $ The Millionaire $
    Park Avenue Place
    Surrey, B.C., Canada Û  Û


    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Park Avenue Place - parkave.synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Access Denied on Wednesday, February 08, 2012 22:25:40
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Access Denied to Nightfox on Wed Feb 08 2012 16:38:03

    You're not the only one. I know quite a few people that only use web-based email. I like having all of my addresses accessible through Thunderbird at o time.

    That's true, I liked that about Thunderbird when I was using it. But now, my primary email addresses are through Gmail and Hotmail, and since Thunderbird is incompatible with Hotmail (at least it was the last time I checked), I figure I might as well just use the web interfaces, so it's consistent wherever I go. :)

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digdist.bbsindex.com
  • From art@VERT/FATCATS to Access Denied on Thursday, February 09, 2012 06:46:22
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Access Denied to art on Wed Feb 08 2012 16:39:18

    Hey AccessD,

    I tend to find people who complain about top/bottom posting are generally using it as an excuse to start a flame war or other argument as a
    tangent.
    That and the fact that some people just have absolutely nothing better to do.

    Yep, agreed. Although...

    Remember when BBSes had "flame wars" subs? Sysop would actively encourage this kind of behavior, back in the day. Some people actually enjoy it. Strange.

    Regards,

    art@fatcatsbbsdotcom

    "You're outmanned, you're outgunned, you're outequipped. What else
    have you got?"
    "Guile."
    "Join me."
    "The honor is to serve."
    -- Riker and Worf in ST:TNG "Peak Performance"

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to art on Thursday, February 09, 2012 10:58:44
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: art to Access Denied on Thu Feb 09 2012 06:46:22

    Remember when BBSes had "flame wars" subs? Sysop would actively encourage th kind of behavior, back in the day. Some people actually enjoy it. Strange.

    What's so strange about it, asshole? I enjoy it, you fucking jerk.

    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From art@VERT/FATCATS to echicken on Thursday, February 09, 2012 17:01:02
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: echicken to art on Thu Feb 09 2012 10:58:44

    What's so strange about it, asshole? I enjoy it, you fucking jerk.

    I'll c u in da FLAME sub, bitch!

    Regards,

    art@fatcatsbbsdotcom

    "It must give you great pleasure."
    "No, sir. It does not. I do not feel pleasure. I am only an android."
    -- Kivas Fajo and Data in ST:TNG "The Most Toys"

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to art on Thursday, February 09, 2012 14:36:11
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: art to echicken on Thu Feb 09 2012 17:01:02

    I'll c u in da FLAME sub, bitch!
    Regards,

    In the immortal words of "Serious" Phil Taylor:

    WHY DO YOU COME OVER MY HOUSE YOU CHICKEN SHIT AND I KICK FUCKING ASS AND YOU CAN STOP HIDDING FROM YOUR OP PRIVELAGES!

    Best wishes,

    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Owl@VERT/NIGHT to The Millionaire on Thursday, February 09, 2012 17:12:00
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: The Millionaire to Owl on Wed Feb 08 2012 07:17 pm

    LOL! :-P She's a bottom lover?

    $ The Millionaire $
    Park Avenue Place
    Surrey, B.C., Canada Û  Û

    or I am.....


    NIGHTOWL BBS
    __________-------____ ____-------__________
    \------____-------___--__---------__--___-------____------/
    \//////// / / / / / \ _-------_ / \ \ \ \ \ \\\\\\\\/
    \////-/-/------/_/_| /___ ___\ |_\_\------\-\-\\\\/
    --//// / / / //|| (O)\ /(O) ||\\ \ \ \ \\\\--
    ---__/ // /| \_ /V\ _/ |\ \\ \__---
    -// / /\_ ------- _/\ \ \\-
    \_/_/ /\---------/\ \_\_/
    ----\ | /----
    | -|- |
    / | \
    ---- \___|
    night.synchro.net

    .

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ NightOwl BBS - night.synchro.net
  • From Bbsing.Bbs@VERT/DARKSANC to Access Denied on Thursday, February 09, 2012 11:09:00
    Access Denied wrote to Nightfox <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PHARCYDE
    @MSGID: <4F31AB15.1053.dove-int@pharcyde.org>
    @REPLY: <4F30CACC.1474.dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Nightfox to All on Mon Feb 06 2012 10:55 pm

    What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs & services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by default. So as many people argue with

    The software defintely can take a partial blame to that as well. That said, some people are just lazy and don't change their settings even though they're the first people to pipe up when someone else doesn't follow "protocol". heh

    I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs
    and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it
    when someone does the opposite.

    It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I
    bottom post on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read
    that way.

    I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting AND plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email,
    along with the other html garble. :)


    Try bottom posting useing a Blackberry or an IPOD or something like that. Its really not easy and I think its impossible on a Blackberry.

    People get goofy about it for sure.

    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Dark Sanctuary darksanctuary.servebbs.com
  • From Ajk@VERT/NORBERTB to Nightfox on Friday, February 10, 2012 22:45:12
    Hmm...

    To be honest I've never really thought about it much and have always
    accepted that it is best to top post on emails and selectively bottom
    post on BBS/Fido type networks. This is the first time I have ever sent
    a top post on BBS/Fido type networks so I am ready for the flames!

    My theory on why people have migrated from selective bottom posting to
    top posting is that data transfer is now inexpensive and it is easier to
    have a complete email trail that save loads of email messages.

    At work I find it a lot easier to keep the latest version of an email
    trial (knowing that the history is below) than try and keep 6 different
    email messages. However I still need to check that people in the thread
    have not chopped, edited or forked the mail history...

    At work I also do something weird by combining my Outlook inbox & sent
    items. My colleagues think I am mad but it makes a lot of sense.

    I have a macro configured to automatically move new sent items messages
    back to my inbox. I then change the inbox view to include both sender
    and recipient name (this works well with my wide screen laptop). Thus
    all my email threads are in one place and it makes it a lot easier to
    manage.


    Alex.

    On 07/02/2012 06:55, Nightfox wrote:
    Since I started using the internet, something that I've thought was interesting
    is peoples' attitudes toward bottom-posting vs. top-posting. On BBSs, it has always been customary to bottom-post, and that is also encouraged by the fact that BBS email software bottom-posts by default. This was also carried over to
    Usenet to some extent, but other internet messaging software (email, in particular) is usually made to top-post by default. Thus, when people reply to
    email, they usually top-post in their replies. And when such people go posting
    on Usenet (and sometimes on BBSs now), they top-post there, and flame wars ensue as people get annoyed.

    What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs& services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla
    Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by
    default. So as many people argue with others not to top-post, many such top-posters don't realize it's bad at first because their software top-posts and they don't know any better. Also, as some software doesn't let you change
    how they post, it can be tiresome to bottom-post with them. Software that top-posts by default will insert a couple of blank lines at the top of the message and leave you at the top of the message, so you have to manually removing the first 2 lines they insert at the top of the message, then
    scroll all the way down to the bottom of the message in order to bottom-post.

    Another thing that I find strange, and a bit peculiar, is that the only places
    where it's even an issue is on BBSs and Usenet. When using internet email outside of the BBS realm, top-posting is the norm, and people don't make a fuss
    about it. Also, many news web sites allow people to post comments on articles,
    and many of them show the most recent comment first, akin to top-posting. That
    actually bugs me a little bit because when people reply to other comments, it's
    often hard to follow the conversations.

    I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it when someone does the opposite.

    Nightfox

    ---
    � Synchronet � Digital Distortion BBS - digdist.bbsindex.com


    --
    Cheers,
    Alex Kemp (ajk) telnet://norbertbbs.org

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ norbertbbs.org
  • From thinktank@VERT/INLANDUT to echicken on Friday, February 10, 2012 11:30:12
    Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: echicken to art on Thu Feb 09 2012 02:36 pm

    In the immortal words of "Serious" Phil Taylor:
    WHY DO YOU COME OVER MY HOUSE YOU CHICKEN SHIT AND I KICK FUCKING ASS AND YO CAN STOP HIDDING FROM YOUR OP PRIVELAGES!
    was that the freaky dude that made Digital Man pissed?
    Matt Munson ~ Ontario California ~ http://www.inlandutopia.com

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Inland Utopia - inlandutopia.etowns.org
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Ajk on Friday, February 10, 2012 19:31:41
    Re: Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
    By: Ajk to Nightfox on Fri Feb 10 2012 10:45 pm

    Hmm...

    To be honest I've never really thought about it much and have always accepted that it is best to top post on emails and selectively bottom
    post on BBS/Fido type networks. This is the first time I have ever sent
    a top post on BBS/Fido type networks so I am ready for the flames!

    My theory on why people have migrated from selective bottom posting to
    top posting is that data transfer is now inexpensive and it is easier to have a complete email trail that save loads of email messages.

    I've noticed as HTML emails have been more prevalent, so has top-posting, and think that's because it's hard to insert replies into a quoted HTML message and
    identify the responses (some people use color-coding for this). It's definitely
    not fun to hunt through an old top-posted email with several quoted replies and
    try to follow the thread that way, but I have to do it often (at work). I go back and forth between top and bottom posting seemlessly and automatically and don't even really think about it (sort of like going between cmd.exe and bash, or SyncTerm and putty, or IE or Firefox, KindleFire or iPad, etc.). :-)

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #34:
    The irc.synchro.net network has more servers than users.
    Norco, CA WX: 58.0øF, 70.0% humidity, 3 mph WNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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  • From Bbsing.Bbs@VERT/DARKSANC to Ajk on Saturday, February 11, 2012 09:50:00
    My theory on why people have migrated from selective bottom posting to
    top posting is that data transfer is now inexpensive and it is easier
    to have a complete email trail that save loads of email messages.
    I can't agree with that. Before the wide spread of high speed microsoft mail readers were by default set to top post. Speeds at 28k to 56k bps to me are slow.


    email messages. However I still need to check that people in the thread have not chopped, edited or forked the mail history...
    Logically it makes sense to bottom post on the message this way you don't have to figure out what the hell is going on with all the top postings that become out of order.

    I have a macro configured to automatically move new sent items messages back to my inbox. I then change the inbox view to include both sender
    and recipient name (this works well with my wide screen laptop). Thus
    all my email threads are in one place and it makes it a lot easier to manage.
    I like that idea I'm going to do that!


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Dark Sanctuary darksanctuary.servebbs.com