• submarine

    From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to All on Thursday, June 22, 2023 09:02:58
    rip idiots on the titan submarine.
    i wouldn't get on something like that in a million years.

    a coworker who worked on a sub said they were probably choking on their own piss and shit before they ran out of oxygen.
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to MRO on Thursday, June 22, 2023 18:59:00
    MRO wrote to All <=-

    rip idiots on the titan submarine.
    i wouldn't get on something like that in a million years.

    You couldn't afford to.

    a coworker who worked on a sub said they were probably choking on
    their own piss and shit before they ran out of oxygen. ---

    They didn't run out of oxygen. They were crushed/splattered by a
    catastrophic implosion of the pressure hull, and likely never knew what happened. That event takes a small fraction of a second.



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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to MRO on Thursday, June 22, 2023 20:16:46
    Re: submarine
    By: MRO to All on Thu Jun 22 2023 09:02 am

    rip idiots on the titan submarine.
    i wouldn't get on something like that in a million years.

    a coworker who worked on a sub said they were probably choking on their own > ---
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    I have not been following the issue closely, but what I have been told is the sub collapsed under preassure. If true, I suspect they gor crushed quite quickly.

    This incident has reminded me of the John Edwards Jone incident in the Nutty Cave. This guy got in for some spelunking and took the wrong turn. He managed to get stuck in a tunnel too tight for anything to pass through, much less a man. He spent 27 or 28 hours stuck in the tunnel upside down unable to move an inch and the rescue team could not do a thing. The guy died there and in fact is still there.

    Dunno, maybe I am weird, but getting in such hostile claustrophobic places is the sort of thing miners do for a pay. It is not something I would do for a hobby.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Friday, June 23, 2023 10:13:26
    Re: submarine
    By: Arelor to MRO on Thu Jun 22 2023 08:16 pm

    Re: submarine
    By: MRO to All on Thu Jun 22 2023 09:02 am

    rip idiots on the titan submarine.
    i wouldn't get on something like that in a million years.

    a coworker who worked on a sub said they were probably choking on their own
    ---
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    I have not been following the issue closely, but what I have been told is the sub collapsed under preassure. If true, I suspect they gor crushed quite quickly.

    This incident has reminded me of the John Edwards Jone incident in the Nutty Cave. This guy got in for some spelunking and took the wrong turn. He managed to get stuck in a tunnel too tight for anything to pass through, much less a man. He spent 27 or 28 hours stuck in the tunnel upside down unable to move an inch and the rescue team could not do a thing. The guy died there and in fact is still there.

    Dunno, maybe I am weird, but getting in such hostile claustrophobic places is the sort of thing miners do for a pay. It is not something I would do for a hobby.


    being in a tight space where i cant breathe is like my worse nightmare. i had a 'friend' roll me up in a rug and put me under a house crawlspace. i didn't know what side was up or down.

    then i grew six inches over the summer and whooped his ass. since then i have carried a knife to cut myself out if needed be.
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  • From Weatherman@VERT/TLCBBS to Gamgee on Friday, June 23, 2023 09:48:20
    MRO wrote to All <=-

    rip idiots on the titan submarine.
    i wouldn't get on something like that in a million years.

    You couldn't afford to.

    a coworker who worked on a sub said they were probably choking on
    their own piss and shit before they ran out of oxygen. ---

    They didn't run out of oxygen. They were crushed/splattered by a catastrophic implosion of the pressure hull, and likely never knew what happened. That event takes a small fraction of a second.

    They were literally dead before they knew it. The implosion took about 2 milliseconds, it takes the human brain about 25 millisecond to recognize what happened....

    Regards,
    -==*>Weatherman<*==-

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Weatherman on Friday, June 23, 2023 17:00:00
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

    MRO wrote to All <=-

    rip idiots on the titan submarine.
    i wouldn't get on something like that in a million years.

    You couldn't afford to.

    a coworker who worked on a sub said they were probably choking on
    their own piss and shit before they ran out of oxygen. ---

    They didn't run out of oxygen. They were crushed/splattered by a catastrophic implosion of the pressure hull, and likely never knew what happened. That event takes a small fraction of a second.

    They were literally dead before they knew it. The implosion
    took about 2 milliseconds, it takes the human brain about 25
    millisecond to recognize what happened....

    Ummm, yeah, I think that's what I said there.



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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Weatherman on Saturday, June 24, 2023 08:48:00
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

    They were literally dead before they knew it. The implosion took
    about 2 milliseconds, it takes the human brain about 25 millisecond to recognize what happened....

    That presumes that the implosion occured before they ran out of air. Or started eating each other, etc.

    On one hand, I feel sorry for those people. That's not a good way to go since they would have been aware of their impending death for quite some time.

    On the other hand, trusting your life to a Woke company is really, really stupid.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Saturday, June 24, 2023 09:38:49
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dr. What to Weatherman on Sat Jun 24 2023 08:48 am


    That presumes that the implosion occured before they ran out of air. Or started eating each other, etc.

    would you eat a person if you didnt eat in 3 days?

    On one hand, I feel sorry for those people. That's not a good way to go since they would have been aware of their impending death for quite some time.

    On the other hand, trusting your life to a Woke company is really, really stupid.


    i feel sorry we have to waste resources to retrieve their bullshit in the ocean.
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  • From Weatherman@VERT/TLCBBS to Dr. What on Saturday, June 24, 2023 14:19:05
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

    They were literally dead before they knew it. The implosion took about 2 milliseconds, it takes the human brain about 25 millisecond to recognize what happened....

    That presumes that the implosion occured before they ran out of air. Or started eating each other, etc.

    On one hand, I feel sorry for those people. That's not a good way to go since they would have been aware of their impending death for quite some time.

    On the other hand, trusting your life to a Woke company is really, really stupid.


    According to the US Navy, they detected the sonar signatures of an implosion shortly after the time the submersible was put in the water, like an hour or so. Highly doubtful the crew and passengers would have resorted to cannibalism in that amount of time.


    Regards,
    -==*>Weatherman<*==-

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  • From Weatherman@VERT/TLCBBS to Gamgee on Saturday, June 24, 2023 14:20:05
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-


    a coworker who worked on a sub said they were probably choking on their own piss and shit before they ran out of oxygen. ---

    They didn't run out of oxygen. They were crushed/splattered by a catastrophic implosion of the pressure hull, and likely never knew what happened. That event takes a small fraction of a second.

    They were literally dead before they knew it. The implosion
    took about 2 milliseconds, it takes the human brain about 25 millisecond to recognize what happened....

    Ummm, yeah, I think that's what I said there.


    Wasn't disputing what you said, just attempted to expand upon it to broaden the discussion....

    Regards,
    -==*>Weatherman<*==-

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Dr. What on Saturday, June 24, 2023 18:19:00
    Dr. What wrote to Weatherman <=-

    They were literally dead before they knew it. The implosion took
    about 2 milliseconds, it takes the human brain about 25 millisecond to recognize what happened....

    That presumes that the implosion occured before they ran out of
    air. Or started eating each other, etc.

    Ummm, we already know that the implosion happened on Sunday,
    approximately 1 hour and 45 minutes into the "mission". It was heard by SOSUS/monitoring equipment, although that fact wasn't made public until several days later.

    On one hand, I feel sorry for those people. That's not a good
    way to go since they would have been aware of their impending
    death for quite some time.

    Not necessarily. We don't know exactly what failed, or how. It could
    have been a complete surprise.

    On the other hand, trusting your life to a Woke company is
    really, really stupid.

    Well, leaving the politics out of it, what is really, really stupid is
    not adhering to established engineering practices, and not doing proper testing/certifications. The CEO thought that was a waste of time and
    money. Stupid, indeed.



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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Weatherman on Sunday, June 25, 2023 03:38:37
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Weatherman to Dr. What on Sat Jun 24 2023 02:19 pm

    According to the US Navy, they detected the sonar signatures of an implosion shortly after the time the submersible was put in the water, like an hour or


    and the implosion was so powerful it took out the transponder which had it's own pressure sealed system.


    so. Highly doubtful the crew and passengers would have resorted to cannibalism in that amount of time.


    one can only hope.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to MRO on Sunday, June 25, 2023 08:45:00
    MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

    That presumes that the implosion occured before they ran out of air. Or started eating each other, etc.

    would you eat a person if you didnt eat in 3 days?

    Do they have humor on your planet?

    On the other hand, trusting your life to a Woke company is really, really stupid.

    i feel sorry we have to waste resources to retrieve their bullshit in
    the ocean. ---

    We're in agreement there. We don't clean up the corpses from Mt. Everest. Why should we clean them up from the deep ocean?


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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Weatherman on Sunday, June 25, 2023 08:45:00
    Weatherman wrote to Dr. What <=-

    According to the US Navy, they detected the sonar signatures of an implosion shortly after the time the submersible was put in the water, like an hour or so. Highly doubtful the crew and passengers would have resorted to cannibalism in that amount of time.

    Are you from the same planet as MRO?


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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Gamgee on Sunday, June 25, 2023 08:51:00
    Gamgee wrote to Dr. What <=-

    On one hand, I feel sorry for those people. That's not a good
    way to go since they would have been aware of their impending
    death for quite some time.

    Not necessarily. We don't know exactly what failed, or how. It could have been a complete surprise.

    I'm basing my assumption on the idea that the pilot knew that they were done for early on when something broke. Also, since the dive went **way** beyond the stated timeframe, I assume that the passengers also knew (or at least felt that way).

    But you are strictly correct. We have know way of knowing exactly.

    Well, leaving the politics out of it,

    I wouldn't have bought politics into it except for the statements of the company owner.

    But you are correct in that:
    what is really, really stupid is
    not adhering to established engineering practices, and not doing proper testing/certifications.

    Sadly, this is what Woke does. It trades actual competence for "diversity" and the making of decisions based on things that have nothing to do with the topic.

    Which is how we get:
    The CEO thought that was a waste of time and
    money. Stupid, indeed.

    But I will argue that the people who trusted their lives to this Woke company were equally stupid.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Sunday, June 25, 2023 08:34:00
    On the other hand, trusting your life to a Woke company is really, really stupid.

    True, as is trusting any company who seems to shun safety as they did.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Mmmmmmm, Sloppy Joes....

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Sunday, June 25, 2023 08:35:00
    i feel sorry we have to waste resources to retrieve their bullshit in the
    cea

    Some of it made it to the ocean floor where it is pretty deep. I am
    wondering if they will even try to retrieve it or if it will just be left
    there as another grave site.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Sunday, June 25, 2023 11:31:06
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Sun Jun 25 2023 08:45 am

    i feel sorry we have to waste resources to retrieve their bullshit in the ocean. ---

    We're in agreement there. We don't clean up the corpses from Mt. Everest. Why should we clean them up from the deep ocean?


    they are fish food and there wont be much pollution.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Sunday, June 25, 2023 11:31:25
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dr. What to Weatherman on Sun Jun 25 2023 08:45 am

    Weatherman wrote to Dr. What <=-

    According to the US Navy, they detected the sonar signatures of an implosion shortly after the time the submersible was put in the water, like an hour or so. Highly doubtful the crew and passengers would have resorted to cannibalism in that amount of time.

    Are you from the same planet as MRO?


    i think perhaps your joke was not funny.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Sunday, June 25, 2023 12:12:09
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dumas Walker to DR. WHAT on Sun Jun 25 2023 08:34 am

    On the other hand, trusting your life to a Woke company is really, really stupid.

    True, as is trusting any company who seems to shun safety as they did.


    here is a simpsons writer who rode it 4x
    https://youtu.be/iahQMRrpWsc


    "'Simpsons' Writer Who Rode Titanic Sub Four Times Recalls Error That Happened 'Every Time'
    Mike Reiss said he thought that the glitch was just 'baked into the system' after completing several expeditions on the Titan submersible.
    AB Keith
    Jun. 23, 2023
    Mike Reiss
    Sefa Karacan/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images
    New York writer Mike Reiss was a four-time passenger on the OceanGate submersible that was reported missing on its route to view the Titanic wreckage. He recounted the vessel encountered the same error every single time-lost communication.

    The former Simpsons writer revealed in an interview with ABC News:

    "Every time they lost communication. That seems to be just something baked into the system."
    "I don't blame OceanGate, but I think I blame deep water for that."
    Reiss also shared as a passenger aboard the Titan, he was required to sign a waiver each voyage with alarming terminology.

    "There is a long release you sign, a waiver, that mentions death three times on the first page."
    One of Reiss' journeys aboard the sub was to the site of the Titanic.

    Though the voyage was successful, he revealed they encountered "communication problems" when they were about 500 yards from the wreckage.

    "We knew it was there, but our compass was acting up, and we didn't know in what direction it was."
    It took them about three hours to locate the site."
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Dr. What on Sunday, June 25, 2023 14:45:00
    Dr. What wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Gamgee wrote to Dr. What <=-

    On one hand, I feel sorry for those people. That's not a good
    way to go since they would have been aware of their impending
    death for quite some time.

    Not necessarily. We don't know exactly what failed, or how. It could have been a complete surprise.

    I'm basing my assumption on the idea that the pilot knew that
    they were done for early on when something broke. Also, since
    the dive went **way** beyond the stated timeframe, I assume that
    the passengers also knew (or at least felt that way).

    I don't think you have all the information, or are not understanding it.
    The sounds of the implosion happend about 1 hour and 45 minutes after submerging. They were dead a few milliseconds later. The dive did NOT
    go way beyond the stated timeframe, it lasted only 1:45 and was
    effectively over. I doubt any of them knew it was coming at all.


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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Dr. What on Sunday, June 25, 2023 14:52:00
    Dr. What wrote to MRO <=-

    i feel sorry we have to waste resources to retrieve their bullshit in
    the ocean.

    We're in agreement there. We don't clean up the corpses from Mt.
    Everest. Why should we clean them up from the deep ocean?

    There aren't any corpses to clean up. They are crushed and/or
    vaporized, and effectively gone.



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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Gamgee on Sunday, June 25, 2023 13:51:00
    Hello Gamgee!

    Well, leaving the politics out of it, what is really, really stupid is
    not adhering to established engineering practices, and not doing proper testing/certifications. The CEO thought that was a waste of time and money. Stupid, indeed.

    Apparently the sub made three other dives to the titanic
    before, and a few similar deep dives in the Bahamas. And it
    spent "test" time in laboratory test chambers. But meanwhile,
    it went thru "modifications" as well. The real questions are
    at what points during that time were "concerns" ignored.


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Sunday, June 25, 2023 15:02:00
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Weatherman on Sun Jun 25 2023 03:38 am

    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Weatherman to Dr. What on Sat Jun 24 2023 02:19 pm

    According to the US Navy, they detected the sonar signatures of an implos shortly after the time the submersible was put in the water, like an hour


    and the implosion was so powerful it took out the transponder which had it's


    so. Highly doubtful the crew and passengers would have resorted to cannibalism in that amount of time.


    one can only hope.

    People can go days without water. Weeks without food. They would've ran out of breathable air before resorting to cannibalism.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Monday, June 26, 2023 03:12:31
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Jun 25 2023 03:02 pm


    so. Highly doubtful the crew and passengers would have resorted to cannibalism in that amount of time.


    one can only hope.

    People can go days without water. Weeks without food. They would've ran out of breathable air before resorting to cannibalism.

    what if it's one of those fat guys who thinks he's only fat because he has a high metabolism? then he starts looking at the other passengers like they are a plucked turkey like in a woody woodpecker cartoon.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Dumas Walker on Monday, June 26, 2023 07:18:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-

    On the other hand, trusting your life to a Woke company is really, really stupid.

    True, as is trusting any company who seems to shun safety as they did.

    Woke and incompetance (which usually shuns safety - 'cuz they know better, you know) usually go hand-in-hand.


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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Gamgee on Monday, June 26, 2023 07:28:00
    Gamgee wrote to Dr. What <=-

    I don't think you have all the information, or are not understanding
    it. The sounds of the implosion happend about 1 hour and 45 minutes
    after submerging. They were dead a few milliseconds later. The dive
    did NOT go way beyond the stated timeframe, it lasted only 1:45 and was effectively over. I doubt any of them knew it was coming at all.

    Interesting. All the articles that I've read made it sound like they were
    down much longer than expected.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Dumas Walker on Monday, June 26, 2023 08:11:20
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Jun 25 2023 08:35 am

    i feel sorry we have to waste resources to retrieve their bullshit in the
    cea

    Some of it made it to the ocean floor where it is pretty deep. I am wondering if they will even try to retrieve it or if it will just be left there as another grave site.


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    I am gonna burn in Hell for this, but there it goes:

    Why retrieve the Titan when there are so many business oportunities?

    "Get a ticket to vist the Titanic Wreck, and for a 20% supplement you can visitthe Titan Wreck too!"

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  • From Hustler@VERT/REALITY to Ogg on Monday, June 26, 2023 10:23:37
    Re: submarine
    By: Ogg to Gamgee on Sun Jun 25 2023 01:51 pm

    Apparently the sub made three other dives to the titanic
    before, and a few similar deep dives in the Bahamas. And it
    spent "test" time in laboratory test chambers. But meanwhile,
    it went thru "modifications" as well. The real questions are
    at what points during that time were "concerns" ignored.

    Because there are no standards established there is no EOL on these subs. An aircraft can only fly x amount of hours and then it's retired. Even if it's a perfectly good airplane. It's reached it's EOL and retired. Apparently this dive was one dive too many. I wonder if this will be the last of composit submarines? I'm unsure as to what the benefit of using this material is over using steel or aluminum? Price? They (the media) said a lot of shortcuts were taken building this thing. Let's hope this never happens again.


    |12HusTler
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Monday, June 26, 2023 15:44:00
    New York writer Mike Reiss was a four-time passenger on the OceanGate
    ubmersib
    e that was reported missing on its route to view the Titanic wreckage. He
    ecou
    ted the vessel encountered the same error every single time-lost
    ommunication.
    [...snip...]
    "We knew it was there, but our compass was acting up, and we didn't know in
    ha
    direction it was."
    It took them about three hours to locate the site."

    There are a lot of things he said that don't fill me with confidence.
    These two are particularly not good.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Monday, June 26, 2023 15:45:00
    I am gonna burn in Hell for this, but there it goes:

    Why retrieve the Titan when there are so many business oportunities?

    "Get a ticket to vist the Titanic Wreck, and for a 20% supplement you can
    isi
    he Titan Wreck too!"

    "And eventually you can visit the wreckage of this ship, too!!!"


    * SLMR 2.1a * "And there she was, like double-cherry pie..."

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to GAMGEE on Monday, June 26, 2023 16:22:00
    i feel sorry we have to waste resources to retrieve their bullshit in the ocean.

    We're in agreement there. We don't clean up the corpses from Mt. Everest. Why should we clean them up from the deep ocean?

    There aren't any corpses to clean up. They are crushed and/or
    vaporized, and effectively gone.

    But there are missions to retreive something related to the dive from the ocean. I figure it is small parts of the ship. I think they are probably
    not going to tell us much that we don't already know so they should just
    leave it there.

    Then again, they probably need something to show someone so someone else
    can get sued.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Monday, June 26, 2023 16:03:00
    I don't think you have all the information, or are not understanding
    it. The sounds of the implosion happend about 1 hour and 45 minutes after submerging. They were dead a few milliseconds later. The dive did NOT go way beyond the stated timeframe, it lasted only 1:45 and was effectively over. I doubt any of them knew it was coming at all.

    Interesting. All the articles that I've read made it sound like they were down much longer than expected.

    For whatever reason... either they didn't want to reveal it or maybe they
    were not sure... they did indeed make it sound like they were down much
    longer than expected. The information that the implosion was picked up on monitoring devices after a very short time was only made public more
    recently.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Mmmmmmmm.....bacon..."

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Dr. What on Monday, June 26, 2023 17:07:00
    Dr. What wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I don't think you have all the information, or are not understanding
    it. The sounds of the implosion happend about 1 hour and 45 minutes
    after submerging. They were dead a few milliseconds later. The dive
    did NOT go way beyond the stated timeframe, it lasted only 1:45 and was effectively over. I doubt any of them knew it was coming at all.

    Interesting. All the articles that I've read made it sound like
    they were down much longer than expected.

    Well..... they were. But they were dead after being down only 1:45.
    They're still down there.

    What the *MEDIA* was showing was just killing time until they could
    confirm the debris on the ocean floor. Pretty sure the families were
    notified on Sunday that it was likely all over, and then the rest of us
    had to wait until Thursday to find that out.



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Dumas Walker on Monday, June 26, 2023 20:40:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

    i feel sorry we have to waste resources to retrieve their bullshit in the ocean.

    We're in agreement there. We don't clean up the corpses from Mt. Everest. Why should we clean them up from the deep ocean?

    There aren't any corpses to clean up. They are crushed and/or
    vaporized, and effectively gone.

    But there are missions to retreive something related to the dive
    from the ocean. I figure it is small parts of the ship. I think
    they are probably not going to tell us much that we don't already
    know so they should just leave it there.

    100% agree that that is likely what they're going to try and recover,
    and that we will learn nothing from the pieces. Waste of time and
    money, and dangerous.

    Then again, they probably need something to show someone so
    someone else can get sued.

    Quite likely.


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Monday, June 26, 2023 22:34:00
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jun 26 2023 03:12 am

    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Jun 25 2023 03:02 pm


    so. Highly doubtful the crew and passengers would have resorted to cannibalism in that amount of time.


    one can only hope.

    People can go days without water. Weeks without food. They would've ran out of breathable air before resorting to cannibalism.

    what if it's one of those fat guys who thinks he's only fat because he has a

    The guy would run out of endurance before defeating someone more fit than
    him. Besides, the fat person has more fat to burn. his body will feast
    on it's own fat. Each pound will be the equivalent to a 4000 calorie meal.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Dumas Walker on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 07:47:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-

    For whatever reason... either they didn't want to reveal it or maybe
    they were not sure... they did indeed make it sound like they were down much longer than expected. The information that the implosion was
    picked up on monitoring devices after a very short time was only made public more recently.

    This is a good example of how the news is reported impacts how people understand what happened.


    ... I'd love to, but I'm teaching my ferret to yodel.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Dumas Walker on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 07:48:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to ARELOR <=-

    "And eventually you can visit the wreckage of this ship, too!!!"

    Ha! Good one.

    I might have to take that trip. But I'll put my trust in an old white dude who used to be in the Navy to take me there.


    ... You are in a maze of UUCP connections, all alike.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 11:02:16
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Jun 26 2023 10:34 pm

    what if it's one of those fat guys who thinks he's only fat because he has a

    The guy would run out of endurance before defeating someone more fit than him. Besides, the fat person has more fat to burn. his body will feast
    on it's own fat. Each pound will be the equivalent to a 4000 calorie meal.

    yeah but if it's a fat person who eats a lot of carbs that means he will be hungry quicker than everyone else. it's not like the body wants to burn reserves instead of getting new food, also.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 11:06:09
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Tue Jun 27 2023 07:48 am

    Dumas Walker wrote to ARELOR <=-

    "And eventually you can visit the wreckage of this ship, too!!!"

    Ha! Good one.

    I might have to take that trip. But I'll put my trust in an old white dude who used to be in the Navy to take me there.


    they made multiple trips in the vessel.
    somehow it became unsound.
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 15:11:00
    For whatever reason... either they didn't want to reveal it or maybe they were not sure... they did indeed make it sound like they were down much longer than expected. The information that the implosion was picked up on monitoring devices after a very short time was only made public more recently.

    This is a good example of how the news is reported impacts how people understand what happened.

    Indeed it is. For many, who were not following closely or who quit
    following after several days after they announced the implosion, their impression would be that the sub was down there a long time.

    If you happened not to be following it real close but just happened to
    catch a mention of it on your local news one morning (that the implosion happened soon after the sub launched), you have a completely different perspective.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Get out & take your Sacagawea dollars with you!" - Moe

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  • From Mickey@VERT/INTERSPY to Dumas Walker on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 19:39:52
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Jun 25 2023 08:35 am

    Some of it made it to the ocean floor where it is pretty deep. I am wondering if they will even try to retrieve it or if it will just be left there as another grave site.


    They'll be nothing left down there but 'squish'


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    Central Ontario Remote BBS
    centralontarioremote.com:2323

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  • From Mickey@VERT/INTERSPY to MRO on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 19:43:37
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jun 26 2023 03:12 am

    what if it's one of those fat guys who thinks he's only fat because he has a high metabolism? then he starts looking at the other passengers like they are a plucked turkey like in a woody woodpecker cartoon.

    ha ha ha HA ha..... :-)


    ------------
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    Central Ontario Remote BBS
    centralontarioremote.com:2323

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to MRO on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 22:38:07
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Dr. What on Sat Jun 24 2023 09:38:49

    would you eat a person if you didnt eat in 3 days?

    Most people can go 2-5 weeks without food. And for that matter, most hunger pains subside after about 2-3 days without any caloric intake.


    --
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to MRO on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 22:52:05
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jun 26 2023 03:12:31

    what if it's one of those fat guys who thinks he's only fat because he has a high metabolism? then he starts looking at the other passengers like they are a plucked turkey like in a woody woodpecker cartoon.

    Most obese people have a comparatively low metabolism for their size. The fat guy has also, likely gone through a number of really restrictive diets and least likely to resort to cannibalism. My bet would be on the socker mom that has two venti coffees from starbucks before noon.


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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 22:59:17
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Jun 26 2023 22:34:00

    The guy would run out of endurance before defeating someone more fit than him. Besides, the fat person has more fat to burn. his body will feast
    on it's own fat. Each pound will be the equivalent to a 4000 calorie meal.

    I know a lot of people tend to lose between a half a pound to a pound a day water+electrolyte fasting. A healthy person can usually do 2-5 weeks of fasting without issue. A fat guy can pretty much do it (assuming water, minerals and electrolyte supplements) for about as long as there's fat to use. I know a couple people that have done 6-9 months (hundreds of pounds lost), and iirc the longest recorded human fast was just over a year.


    --
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to MRO on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 07:20:00
    MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

    somehow it became unsound.

    The "unsound" is the implosion that the Navy heard.


    ... You are confused; but this is your normal state.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 09:45:44
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Tue Jun 27 2023 10:38 pm

    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Dr. What on Sat Jun 24 2023 09:38:49

    would you eat a person if you didnt eat in 3 days?

    Most people can go 2-5 weeks without food. And for that matter, most hunger pains subside after about 2-3 days without any caloric intake.


    i cant go 2 hrs without food.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 09:47:32
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Tue Jun 27 2023 10:52 pm

    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Jun 26 2023 03:12:31

    what if it's one of those fat guys who thinks he's only fat because he has a high metabolism? then he starts looking at the other passengers like they are a plucked turkey like in a woody woodpecker cartoon.

    Most obese people have a comparatively low metabolism for their size. The fat guy has also, likely gone through a number of really restrictive diets and least likely to resort to cannibalism. My bet would be on the socker mom that has two venti coffees from starbucks before noon.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com


    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/served-archaeologist-considers-nutritional-value-humans

    https://tinyurl.com/preview/275q32eh
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 09:48:29
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Tue Jun 27 2023 10:59 pm

    minerals and electrolyte supplements) for about as long as there's fat to use. I know a couple people that have done 6-9 months (hundreds of pounds lost), and iirc the longest recorded human fast was just over a year.


    that's got to be horrible on the body though.
    i could imagine them dropping dead in a short time after doing that.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 09:48:53
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Wed Jun 28 2023 07:20 am

    MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

    somehow it became unsound.

    The "unsound" is the implosion that the Navy heard.


    see, this is what i mean about you not being funny.
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to MRO on Wednesday, June 28, 2023 20:31:00
    MRO wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    would you eat a person if you didnt eat in 3 days?

    Most people can go 2-5 weeks without food. And for that matter, most hunger pains subside after about 2-3 days without any caloric intake.

    i cant go 2 hrs without food.

    Do you reckon there's any relation between that statement and the fact
    that you're morbidly obese?



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Gamgee on Monday, June 26, 2023 06:46:00
    Gamgee wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Well, leaving the politics out of it, what is really, really stupid is
    not adhering to established engineering practices, and not doing proper testing/certifications. The CEO thought that was a waste of time and money. Stupid, indeed.

    There are times when a visionary can disrupt the status quo of an
    incumbent industry. This was NOT one of those times.



    ... It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it plays out for 'em...
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dr. What on Monday, June 26, 2023 06:48:00
    Dr. What wrote to MRO <=-

    We're in agreement there. We don't clean up the corpses from Mt.
    Everest. Why should we clean them up from the deep ocean?

    Maybe some entrepreneur will design a sub and arrange an expedition to
    the remains of the first entrepreneur's expedition?



    ... It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it plays out for 'em...
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, June 30, 2023 13:50:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Well, leaving the politics out of it, what is really, really stupid is
    not adhering to established engineering practices, and not doing proper testing/certifications. The CEO thought that was a waste of time and money. Stupid, indeed.

    There are times when a visionary can disrupt the status quo of an incumbent industry. This was NOT one of those times.

    Absolutely right on both statements. Those occasions when that kind of thinking is actually good are *VERY* infrequent in the space and
    deep-sea exploration industries, especially. There simply is no room
    for error due to the completely unforgiving nature of the working
    environments for both.

    I feel sorry for those poor souls and their families, but at the same time..... not so much.





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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to GAMGEE on Saturday, July 01, 2023 09:34:00
    Absolutely right on both statements. Those occasions when that kind of thinking is actually good are *VERY* infrequent in the space and
    deep-sea exploration industries, especially. There simply is no room
    for error due to the completely unforgiving nature of the working environments for both.

    I would argue that it has been good for *unmanned* space exploration. They have been able to decrease the size and weight of satellites and landers
    over the years, for example, by thinking a little outside the box.

    Some of these do fail, but so did their larger cousins.


    * SLMR 2.1a * This message brought to you by JAMMITIN (tm)!!

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Dumas Walker on Saturday, July 01, 2023 19:03:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

    Absolutely right on both statements. Those occasions when that kind of thinking is actually good are *VERY* infrequent in the space and
    deep-sea exploration industries, especially. There simply is no room
    for error due to the completely unforgiving nature of the working environments for both.

    I would argue that it has been good for *unmanned* space
    exploration. They have been able to decrease the size and weight
    of satellites and landers over the years, for example, by
    thinking a little outside the box.

    Sure, completely agree with the "unmanned" part. Pretty standard
    practice in those fields, actually. A great example is the "Artemis"
    moon project currently underway.



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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, July 03, 2023 08:33:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dr. What <=-

    We're in agreement there. We don't clean up the corpses from Mt.
    Everest. Why should we clean them up from the deep ocean?

    Maybe some entrepreneur will design a sub and arrange an expedition to
    the remains of the first entrepreneur's expedition?

    When we take the ferry to Mackinac Island, they have some times where they take the boat under the Mackinac Bridge.

    So it would be like that. "We see the Titanic every Saturday, but on the first Saturday of the month, we stop by the other sub."


    ... If you want her to show emotion, cut up her credit cards.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, July 03, 2023 08:36:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

    There are times when a visionary can disrupt the status quo of an incumbent industry. This was NOT one of those times.

    He disrupted the aquatic life of the ocean a bit when the sub imploded. 8)


    ... My other computer is a TRS-80 Pocket Computer 2.
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  • From Hustler@VERT/REALITY to Dr. What on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 05:04:01
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dr. What to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 03 2023 08:33 am

    Maybe some entrepreneur will design a sub and arrange an expedition to
    the remains of the first entrepreneur's expedition?

    When we take the ferry to Mackinac Island, they have some times where they t the boat under the Mackinac Bridge.

    I just say a documentary about the Mackinac Bridge.


    |12HusTler
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dr. What on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 09:53:00
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dr. What to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 03 2023 08:33 am

    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dr. What <=-

    We're in agreement there. We don't clean up the corpses from Mt. Everest. Why should we clean them up from the deep ocean?

    Maybe some entrepreneur will design a sub and arrange an expedition to the remains of the first entrepreneur's expedition?

    When we take the ferry to Mackinac Island, they have some times where they t the boat under the Mackinac Bridge.

    So it would be like that. "We see the Titanic every Saturday, but on the fi Saturday of the month, we stop by the other sub."


    ... If you want her to show emotion, cut up her credit cards.

    I haven't made a trip up to Mackinac Island yet. A cousin visited the Grand Hotel and got to see where they filmed Somewhere in Time.

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to MRO on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 13:49:40
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Wed Jun 28 2023 09:45:44

    Most people can go 2-5 weeks without food. And for that matter, most
    hunger pains subside after about 2-3 days without any caloric intake.

    i cant go 2 hrs without food.

    You'd be surprised... if you're seriously having trouble with not eating every few hours, would start by cutting soda and snacks, drink all the water you like, and start by eating until you are almost uncomfortably full at your first meal. Try to keep at least half the volume and 2/3 of the calories from the first meal to meat and/or eggs. It gets much easier to wait between meals that way.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to MRO on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 14:07:22
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Wed Jun 28 2023 09:48:29

    minerals and electrolyte supplements) for about as long as there's fat
    to use. I know a couple people that have done 6-9 months (hundreds of
    pounds lost), and iirc the longest recorded human fast was just over a
    year.

    that's got to be horrible on the body though.
    i could imagine them dropping dead in a short time after doing that.

    No, it actually lengthens life, generally speaking. Most people would live slightly longer and reduce cancer risk, just by fasting 3 days a couple times a year. As far as the longer fast, that's what body fat is made for.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to MRO on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 14:09:44
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Wed Jun 28 2023 09:48:29

    minerals and electrolyte supplements) for about as long as there's fat
    to use. I know a couple people that have done 6-9 months (hundreds of
    pounds lost), and iirc the longest recorded human fast was just over a
    year.

    that's got to be horrible on the body though.
    i could imagine them dropping dead in a short time after doing that.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8932957/

    https://longevity.technology/lifestyle/intermittent-vs-prolonged-fasting-which- is-better-for-weight-loss/


    --
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Tracker1 on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 18:48:19
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Tue Jul 04 2023 01:49 pm

    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Wed Jun 28 2023 09:45:44

    Most people can go 2-5 weeks without food. And for that matter, most
    hunger pains subside after about 2-3 days without any caloric intake.

    i cant go 2 hrs without food.

    You'd be surprised... if you're seriously having trouble with not eating every few hours, would start by cutting soda and snacks, drink all the water

    i'm just joking.
    i can go all day without food if i'm busy.

    what i need to stop doing is snacking like i'm doing now at the computer.
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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Moondog on Tuesday, July 04, 2023 21:06:00
    On 04 Jul 2023, Moondog said the following...

    I haven't made a trip up to Mackinac Island yet. A cousin visited the Grand Hotel and got to see where they filmed Somewhere in Time.

    my dad and uncle both worked at the grand hotel as teenagers in the summer, yet somehow i've never managed to get out there. apparently them and the rest of the staff would finish off the unfinished drinks toward the end of the shift to get the party started early lol. definitely different times

    we go to drummond island instead further north but now that's starting to feel too modern with internet and improved cellular coverage

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Wednesday, July 05, 2023 08:12:00
    When we take the ferry to Mackinac Island, they have some times where they
    ak
    the boat under the Mackinac Bridge.

    So it would be like that. "We see the Titanic every Saturday, but on the
    irs
    Saturday of the month, we stop by the other sub."

    The one difference I see is that the bridge is an engineering marvel, while
    the sub certainly was not. ;)


    * SLMR 2.1a * If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice!

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Tracker1 on Wednesday, July 05, 2023 09:42:00
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Tue Jul 04 2023 01:49 pm

    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Wed Jun 28 2023 09:45:44

    Most people can go 2-5 weeks without food. And for that matter, most
    hunger pains subside after about 2-3 days without any caloric intake.

    i cant go 2 hrs without food.

    You'd be surprised... if you're seriously having trouble with not eating eve t least half the volume and 2/3 of the calories from the first meal to meat


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com


    I have a friend that tried Nutri-system and he lost 20 pounds in the trial per iod. Part of it was switching from 3 larger meals to 6 smaller snacking type meals a day. As mentioned, I think part of it working was keeping away the hunger by spreading out the intake of food.

    He didn't stick with the program, though. He did it out of sympathy for his wife, who was actually the one trying it out. He was doing it out of support for her. She quit because she had only lost 5 or so pounds. I heard the program was less effective for women, and the bigger you were, the easier it was to lose weight.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Tracker1 on Wednesday, July 05, 2023 09:45:00
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Tracker1 to MRO on Tue Jul 04 2023 02:07 pm

    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Tracker1 on Wed Jun 28 2023 09:48:29

    minerals and electrolyte supplements) for about as long as there's fat
    to use. I know a couple people that have done 6-9 months (hundreds of
    pounds lost), and iirc the longest recorded human fast was just over a
    year.

    that's got to be horrible on the body though.
    i could imagine them dropping dead in a short time after doing that.

    No, it actually lengthens life, generally speaking. Most people would live


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

    My concern is maintaining metabolism. Fasting or skipping meals may confuse the body's energy consumption/ energy savings modes. It may be worse if you have low metabolism.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to fusion on Wednesday, July 05, 2023 09:51:00
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: fusion to Moondog on Tue Jul 04 2023 09:06 pm

    On 04 Jul 2023, Moondog said the following...

    I haven't made a trip up to Mackinac Island yet. A cousin visited the Grand Hotel and got to see where they filmed Somewhere in Time.

    my dad and uncle both worked at the grand hotel as teenagers in the summer, rted early lol. definitely different times

    we go to drummond island instead further north but now that's starting to fe

    I live in the lower southwest corner of the state, in Berrien County. Unless you're into wine, beaches, and Illinois tourists, everything is somewhere
    else.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Wednesday, July 05, 2023 22:35:01
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 05 2023 09:42 am

    He didn't stick with the program, though. He did it out of sympathy for his wife, who was actually the one trying it out. He was doing it out of support for her. She quit because she had only lost 5 or so pounds. I heard the program was less effective for women, and the bigger you were, the easier it was to lose weight.

    she was probably cheating.

    looks like nutrisystem is real expensive and has lots of processed foods.
    and they are bringing back jenny craig.
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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Dumas Walker on Thursday, July 06, 2023 07:11:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-

    The one difference I see is that the bridge is an engineering marvel, while the sub certainly was not. ;)

    I will point out that people wanting to see the Titanic aren't interested in seeing successes anyway. ;)


    ... When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Thursday, July 06, 2023 08:50:03
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dr. What to Dumas Walker on Thu Jul 06 2023 07:11 am

    Dumas Walker wrote to DR. WHAT <=-

    The one difference I see is that the bridge is an engineering marvel, while the sub certainly was not. ;)

    I will point out that people wanting to see the Titanic aren't interested in seeing successes anyway. ;)



    that sub made multiple trips to that location, though. so it was an engineering marvel.
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Thursday, July 06, 2023 12:35:00
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: MRO to Moondog on Wed Jul 05 2023 10:35 pm

    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 05 2023 09:42 am

    He didn't stick with the program, though. He did it out of sympathy for wife, who was actually the one trying it out. He was doing it out of supp for her. She quit because she had only lost 5 or so pounds. I heard the program was less effective for women, and the bigger you were, the easier was to lose weight.

    she was probably cheating.

    looks like nutrisystem is real expensive and has lots of processed foods. and they are bringing back jenny craig.

    I get the impression that the price of food supplied is supposed to work as incentive to not cheat and stick with the program. Then again, people spend b ig money for gym memberships, then go once or twice. I was on the board of directors ofr a private shooting range, and when we would run yearly reports around renewal time, there is amazingly a number of members who paid for a membership, then went only once or not at all. I had a buddy comlain about membership dues, then I pointed out if he used the range once a month, a session would cost less than a meal at a fast food place.

    My friend's wife found another way to lose weight. For extra income they bought an apartment complex and she's been remodeling rooms as as older
    tenants leave. She has no time to sit idle or snack.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DR. WHAT on Thursday, July 06, 2023 15:23:00
    The one difference I see is that the bridge is an engineering marvel, while the sub certainly was not. ;)

    I will point out that people wanting to see the Titanic aren't interested in seeing successes anyway. ;)

    Yeah, I would rather see the bridge (again). :) There are plenty of shipwrecks one can see near the shores off the shores of Michigan, too.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "I didn't know chicks in videos wore underpants!"- Beavis

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Friday, July 07, 2023 10:57:00
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Dumas Walker to DR. WHAT on Thu Jul 06 2023 03:23 pm

    The one difference I see is that the bridge is an engineering marvel, while the sub certainly was not. ;)

    I will point out that people wanting to see the Titanic aren't interested seeing successes anyway. ;)

    Yeah, I would rather see the bridge (again). :) There are plenty of shipwrecks one can see near the shores off the shores of Michigan, too.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "I didn't know chicks in videos wore underpants!"- Beavis


    During WWII two ships were converted into carrier decks for pilots training at
    Great Lakes NAS to practice carrier landings and takeoffs. Pilots who landed
    late in the evening were supposed to stay overnight on the carrier. Turned o ut several students packed their dress uniforms in airtight bags, then swam
    to the shore. They would party all night in Chicago, then swim back to the carrier before wakeup time.

    ---
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MOONDOG on Friday, July 07, 2023 18:48:00
    During WWII two ships were converted into carrier decks for pilots training
    t
    Great Lakes NAS to practice carrier landings and takeoffs. Pilots who
    anded
    late in the evening were supposed to stay overnight on the carrier. Turned

    ut several students packed their dress uniforms in airtight bags, then swam to the shore. They would party all night in Chicago, then swim back to the carrier before wakeup time.

    There is a model, made of Legos, of one of those ships at one of the
    lighthouse museums near Traverse City. At least one of the ships was an
    old paddle wheeler. They chose to train on Lake Michigan because it is the only one of the Great Lakes that is completely in US territory.

    They also experimented with remote control aircraft during that training exercise. The person flying might be on a larger craft, trying to fly the fighter craft using cameras and tv screens. A lot of those planes crashed
    into northern Lake Michigan.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Oooo, Better run, Mr. Wino!!!

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Sunday, July 09, 2023 13:25:42
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 05 2023 09:42:00

    I have a friend that tried Nutri-system and he lost 20 pounds in the trial per iod. Part of it was switching from 3 larger meals to 6 smaller snacking type meals a day. As mentioned, I think part of it working was keeping away the hunger by spreading out the intake of food.

    Generally speaking, you need a calorie deficit to lose weight. Some techniques are more successful than others, personalities and psychology will play a lot into how/what works better. The multiple/smaller meals can work for some, and intermittent fasting with largert meals for others. Also worth mentioning that different macros and food contents will play a very large role in Ghrelin (hunger hormone) responses over time (following 2 days), with glucose/insulin response taking a large role over the following hours.

    I've personally found that avoiding almost all carbs works best for me. Sticking most closely to eggs/meat and green veg. Generally getting about 1-2g fat per 2g protein (keto). Also, staying closer to whole/unprocessed foods. I often find that I'm not hungry more than once or twice a day when I eat this way, as long as I eat enough to feel sated at meals. The harder part is the social aspects, just having other things around.

    He didn't stick with the program, though. He did it out of sympathy for his wife, who was actually the one trying it out. He was doing it out of support for her. She quit because she had only lost 5 or so pounds. I heard the program was less effective for women, and the bigger you were, the easier it was to lose weight.

    The bigger you are, assuming you haven't lost/gained a lot of weight before, it's usually easier to get started. And it's easy to lose motivation over time when you don't see early and frequent success. If you're less overweight (say under 50# to lose) it's better to eat for health than weight loss with some moderate activity and regular weight training. Doing that consistently is better for forming habbits than something more restrictive for weight loss alone.

    NutraSystems and the like are really low calorie and the food is not at all satisfying. It's very hard to stick to. If you're running more than around a 10-15% calorie deficit, and not doing Keto, the hormone response working against you can be particularly difficult. Another issue is that "last 10(20) pounds" mindset, where your body may not be meant to stand there. Most people aren't ment to be very lean all year. Bodies are meant to have some cycles where food is more or less abundant and you eat more or less as a result.

    Aside, I'm also a strong proponent of a longer fast (3+ days) a couple times a year just for general health. It helps signal to your cells to recycle the damaged cells and reduces cancer risk as a result.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Sunday, July 09, 2023 13:46:36
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 05 2023 09:45:00

    No, it actually lengthens life, generally speaking. Most people would
    live

    My concern is maintaining metabolism. Fasting or skipping meals may confuse the body's energy consumption/ energy savings modes. It may be worse if you have low metabolism.

    It depends on the approach, eating very low calories is less effective than outright fasting. Dr. Fung has several books (mostly available in audio as well) on the effects of fasting. There are other documentaries as well.

    Most people should have at least 10-12 hours of fasting cycle per day. This helps with hormone control, it also helps to actually space out meals and expressly not snack between meals. If you have metabolic issues, most people do better by limiting carbs than by the "many small meals" approach. The hormone response is much more impactful.

    More generally speaking, most people have too much refined sugar, this is accompanied by about half being fructose. Simple carbs tend to break down as easily as sugar. This results in a faster intake of glucose, which causes an insulin response from the pancrease and and early on, increased levels of insulin which is an overriding hormone. This load/response will cause some damage over time, and cells will then be less responsive to insulin meaning your body will use more and more insulin leading to higher sustained insulin levels. These higher sustained/basal insulin levels are problematic as this is an overriding hormone to other functions. The body will then start signaling for more hunger, while unable to properly respond. This is where you start seeing "pre-diabetic" levels of glucose (long after the damage is already started).... which is why people should get a baseline glucose test every year, not just an A1C (which only starts showing after the damage is started, often after a decade or more).

    All said, about 1/2 to 2/3 of what people consume is simple for energy. The body can use two mainline sources of fuel, glucose and ketones. Glucose coming from carbs (or gluconeogenesis) and ketones from fat. The body is meant to have times where you are using one or the other and cycling between them. Most people in western culture are not regularly cycling out. Daily fasting for 10+ hours will lead to some ketosis, especially in healthy, athletic people. With frequent meals, over longer parts of the day and combined with excessive carb intake, the more natural cycles aren't working.

    On Fructose; fructose is only able to be metabolized by the liver. It does pretty much everything bad to the body that alcohol does without the negative reinforcement of a hang over. The breakdown of fructose takes a load on the liver and releases a disproportionate amount of free radicals and damaging enzymes into the body that take more effort to remove from the body. An adult, human male should have around 35-40g of sugars per day, generally this will mean about half of that being fructose. If you're consuming excess sugar, it's problematic. If you're consuming excess soda or fruit juice it's even more problematic. Combined with excess weight it's indicative of fatty liver accumulation and can be particular troubling.

    This accumulation of fat in and around the liver, as well as excess stress on the kidneys leaves more problematic compounds in the body for longer periods of time. This leads to both general inflammation, which is dealt with by cholesterol. The issue is that it also leads to glycated (damaged) cholesterol, which will lead to plaquing and build up in the arteries. AKA heart disease (this also effects build up around the brain over time as well). This is what causes both heart disease as well as mental health issues later in life. The worst parts are that the effects on your system in terms of inflammation may not always be reflected in terms of weight gain. Weight gain generally starts building up in excess as a secondary effect of too much consumption, not just unbalanced consumption.

    ...

    Sorry, I've gone way off on a tangent here... It's just an area I've spent an excess amount of time reading/studying about and have followed a fair amount of research data (not just junk assumptions based on poor quality surveys). If you ever really want to go off the deep end, look into agri-business (like General Mills) and the ties to both "Lifestyle Medicine" and the Seventh Day Adventist church along with representation in charge of the USDA. It's kind of sickening.


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Sunday, July 09, 2023 13:53:34
    Re: Re: submarine
    By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Sun Jul 09 2023 13:46:36

    respond. This is where you start seeing "pre-diabetic" levels of glucose (long after the damage is already started).... which is why people should get a baseline glucose test every year, not just an A1C (which only starts showing after the damage is started, often after a decade or more).

    Correction, baseline insulin test every year (a1c is a baseline glucose test that most already get in regular bloodwork).


    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

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