Don't you guys find it pathetic that there's a fucking ballon floating
in the usa and the military says they can't get it?

they've had skyhook since the 1950s. they couldn't grapple the thing and pull it into a cargo plane?

like since 1950 they have been able to pluck one dude off the ground into the air without stopping the plane.

a balloon or some planes crashing into buildings is impossible to stop.
---
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MRO wrote to All <=-

Don't you guys find it pathetic that there's a fucking ballon
floating in the usa and the military says they can't get it?

Yes, it is actually pretty pathetic.

they've had skyhook since the 1950s. they couldn't grapple the
thing and pull it into a cargo plane?

Well, no, for several reasons. One is that it is at 60,000 feet. What aircraft would you use to "grapple" it at that altitude? Also, it is
the size of three school buses. What cargo plane is going to carry
that?

like since 1950 they have been able to pluck one dude off the
ground into the air without stopping the plane.

Not even remotely the same thing.

a balloon or some planes crashing into buildings is impossible to
stop.

Maybe not impossible, but very close to it. Now, we could *easily*
obliterate the balloon, but they're worried about falling debris hitting people/property on the ground. Personally I think we should do that
(shoot it down).



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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to All on Fri Feb 03 2023 10:23 am

Don't you guys find it pathetic that there's a fucking ballon floating
in the usa and the military says they can't get it?

they've had skyhook since the 1950s. they couldn't grapple the thing and pu

like since 1950 they have been able to pluck one dude off the ground into th

a balloon or some planes crashing into buildings is impossible to stop.

Instead of shooting it down, the US gov't is playing a publicit game with China.

If China has all these high tech satellites, why are they relying on a spy balloon? The Chinese look like idiots when they claim it's a weather balloon flown off course.

All the military and missile bases can be viewed on civillian assets such as Google Earth. Makes one wonder about the reliability of their orbital observation.

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Feb 03 2023 07:07 pm

If China has all these high tech satellites, why are they relying on a spy balloon? The Chinese look like idiots when they claim it's a weather balloon flown off course.

china says it's civilian. i doubt that.
i think they are testing us.

"Asked about the balloon, the Chinese foreign ministry said on Friday: "The Chinese side regrets the unintended entry of the airship into US airspace . It is a civilian airship used for research, mainly meteorological, purposes . The airship deviated far from its planned course."

A later statement from China's foreign ministry claimed that some politicians and media in the US were taking advantage of the incident to "discredit" China."

there is now a 2nd balloon going over latin america.

i thought were were getting a missle defense system like israel has.
i guess we dont have jack shit.
---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Moondog on Fri Feb 03 2023 10:05 pm

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Feb 03 2023 07:07 pm

If China has all these high tech satellites, why are they relying on a sp balloon? The Chinese look like idiots when they claim it's a weather balloon flown off course.

china says it's civilian. i doubt that.
i think they are testing us.

"Asked about the balloon, the Chinese foreign ministry said on Friday: "The
from its planned course."

A later statement from China's foreign ministry claimed that some politician

there is now a 2nd balloon going over latin america.

i thought were were getting a missle defense system like israel has.
i guess we dont have jack shit.

We won't get an anti-missile system because of anti-nallistic missile
treaties signed in the Carter administration. 50 years ago the US began workin g on the basis of Patriot style systems, and the Russians response was they will send more missiles.

---
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they've had skyhook since the 1950s. they couldn't grapple the thing and pull
t into a cargo plane?

They were saying on the news that it was too high for an airplane to fly.
Some have suggested they could hit it with smaller munitions so that it
would fall slowly rather than crash, but to be accurate they probably have
to be fired from near-range.

But, yeah, I have wondered, just as I have wondered why they didn't shoot
it down while it was over uninhabited areas of Montana or the Dakotas.
Last I heard, it was too late now... it is over areas with denser
populations.


* SLMR 2.1a * This is a School-Free Drug Zone.

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Feb 04 2023 10:54 am

they've had skyhook since the 1950s. they couldn't grapple the thing and pull
t into a cargo plane?

They were saying on the news that it was too high for an airplane to fly. Some have suggested they could hit it with smaller munitions so that it would fall slowly rather than crash, but to be accurate they probably have to be fired from near-range.

But, yeah, I have wondered, just as I have wondered why they didn't shoot
it down while it was over uninhabited areas of Montana or the Dakotas.
Last I heard, it was too late now... it is over areas with denser populations.

well they say they shot it down and they collected valuable information from it. i think that's a half truth.
---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Feb 04 2023 10:54 am

they've had skyhook since the 1950s. they couldn't grapple the thing and t into a cargo plane?

They were saying on the news that it was too high for an airplane to fly. Some have suggested they could hit it with smaller munitions so that it would fall slowly rather than crash, but to be accurate they probably have to be fired from near-range.

But, yeah, I have wondered, just as I have wondered why they didn't shoot
it down while it was over uninhabited areas of Montana or the Dakotas.
Last I heard, it was too late now... it is over areas with denser populations.

* SLMR 2.1a * This is a School-Free Drug Zone.

It's been shot down now. The balloon probably had parachutes like a weather balloon would (even thought it isn't )

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Sun Feb 05 2023 11:09 am

It's been shot down now. The balloon probably had parachutes like a weather balloon would (even thought it isn't )

yeah it was not a weather balloon. it probably self destructed in some form when it went down.

the chinese must have been pissing their pants laughing at us.

This shit wouldn't have happened with trump.
---
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But, yeah, I have wondered, just as I have wondered why they didn't shoot it down while it was over uninhabited areas of Montana or the Dakotas. Last I heard, it was too late now... it is over areas with denser populations.

It's been shot down now. The balloon probably had parachutes like a weather balloon would (even thought it isn't )

After it had already finished crossing the US. If the intent were to stop
it transmitting data back to base, you'd not wait until it was finished
with its fly-over.

Now, if it was just to shoot it down to say you shot it down and to impress John Q. Public, that plan might work.


* SLMR 2.1a * Acid bath? You're soaking in it...

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Sun Feb 05 2023 06:04 pm

it transmitting data back to base, you'd not wait until it was finished
with its fly-over.

Now, if it was just to shoot it down to say you shot it down and to impress John Q. Public, that plan might work.

people are just so stupid.

some are convinced that shooting down the balloon was too hard.
some think it didn't collect any data because sattelites are better.
---
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Hello MRO!

...it probably self destructed in some form when it went
down.

That's an interesting thought.

the chinese must have been pissing their pants laughing at us.
This shit wouldn't have happened with trump.

The media is rpeorting that several of these incidents occurred
during Trumps' reign - as if to suggest that the same type of
thing didn't occur during any other president's reign. Instead,
this type of incident is probably very common, except that the
military doesn't make it public front-page news to the average
citizen.


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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Ogg to MRO on Mon Feb 06 2023 07:45 am

the chinese must have been pissing their pants laughing at us.
This shit wouldn't have happened with trump.

The media is rpeorting that several of these incidents occurred
during Trumps' reign - as if to suggest that the same type of
thing didn't occur during any other president's reign. Instead,

dude, if trump did a typo in a tweet it was front page news for a week. people were making tshirts and coffee mugs.

this type of incident is probably very common, except that the
military doesn't make it public front-page news to the average
citizen.

people sighted the balloon. all over the place. the military only announces something to calm people down.
---
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people are just so stupid.

some are convinced that shooting down the balloon was too hard.
some think it didn't collect any data because sattelites are better.

Some think that shooting it down might cause China to shoot down a plane.
I don't trust them, but I am sure even they know the difference between an unmanned balloon and a plane full of passengers when it comes to world
opinion.


* SLMR 2.1a * Aibohphobia, n. -- the fear of palindromes.

---
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the chinese must have been pissing their pants laughing at us.
This shit wouldn't have happened with trump.

The media is rpeorting that several of these incidents occurred
during Trumps' reign - as if to suggest that the same type of
thing didn't occur during any other president's reign. Instead,
this type of incident is probably very common, except that the
military doesn't make it public front-page news to the average
citizen.

I heard that, but then I also heard the source of that "it happened then"
info had to walk it back.

I do agree that we likely are not alerted to it, and only were this time because citizens saw it.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Bother," said Pooh, as he torched the forest.....

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Feb 06 2023 04:09 pm

people are just so stupid.

some are convinced that shooting down the balloon was too hard.
some think it didn't collect any data because sattelites are better.

Some think that shooting it down might cause China to shoot down a plane.
I don't trust them, but I am sure even they know the difference between an unmanned balloon and a plane full of passengers when it comes to world opinion.

i dont think they would give a shit if we shot down one of their balloons.
if something goes in a country's airspace that's free game.
---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Sun Feb 05 2023 06:04 pm

But, yeah, I have wondered, just as I have wondered why they didn't sho it down while it was over uninhabited areas of Montana or the Dakotas. Last I heard, it was too late now... it is over areas with denser populations.

It's been shot down now. The balloon probably had parachutes like a weath balloon would (even thought it isn't )

After it had already finished crossing the US. If the intent were to stop it transmitting data back to base, you'd not wait until it was finished
with its fly-over.

Now, if it was just to shoot it down to say you shot it down and to impress John Q. Public, that plan might work.

* SLMR 2.1a * Acid bath? You're soaking in it...

They wanted to listen and learn from the balloon. That is why they waited so long. All of it's tranmissions were intercepted.

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Mon Feb 06 2023 12:18 am

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Sun Feb 05 2023 06:04 pm

it transmitting data back to base, you'd not wait until it was finished with its fly-over.

Now, if it was just to shoot it down to say you shot it down and to impre John Q. Public, that plan might work.

people are just so stupid.

some are convinced that shooting down the balloon was too hard.
some think it didn't collect any data because sattelites are better.

Wethe public do not know how long the US govt were aware of the balloon or
it's transmissions. If it was spotted early they could park planes in
hangars and re-schedule troops training around the flight pattern of the balloon. The skunkworks had a flight test plan based on sattellite patterns.
The same could be done around the flight of a balloon the length of two
school buses.

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Mon Feb 06 2023 05:54 pm

They wanted to listen and learn from the balloon. That is why they waited so long. All of it's tranmissions were intercepted.

They could have took it down before it entered out airspace and examined the unit.

how were the transmissions intercepted?
why do you think that?
---
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MRO wrote to Moondog <=-

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Mon Feb 06 2023 05:54 pm

They wanted to listen and learn from the balloon. That is why they waited so long. All of it's tranmissions were intercepted.

They could have took it down before it entered out airspace and
examined the unit.

If it's not in our airspace we'd have no right to take it down.
Dumbass.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Moondog on Tue Feb 07 2023 02:10 am

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Mon Feb 06 2023 05:54 pm

They wanted to listen and learn from the balloon. That is why they waite so long. All of it's tranmissions were intercepted.

They could have took it down before it entered out airspace and examined the

how were the transmissions intercepted?
why do you think that?

The equipment under the ballon broadcast radio frequencies. I'm not an RF guy but if a signal is broadcast, it can be picked up. Agencies such as the CIA and NSA could scan the entire RF spectrum and detect what is being broadcast.
The CIA has the crypto abilities to crack any encryption

Any time something foreign comes close to the US, the CIA is going to want to analyze how it works and what it reports back. During the cold war the Soviets would tail the US fleets with fishing trawlers covered in antennas. The US knew they were tailing them, and listened to anything they
broadcasted. While the ballon is in the air, the CIA had the ability to liste n to it.

---
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people are just so stupid.

some are convinced that shooting down the balloon was too hard.
some think it didn't collect any data because sattelites are better.

Some think that shooting it down might cause China to shoot down a plane. I don't trust them, but I am sure even they know the difference between an unmanned balloon and a plane full of passengers when it comes to world opinion.

i dont think they would give a shit if we shot down one of their balloons.
if something goes in a country's airspace that's free game.

Same, just noting that is one of the excuses that has been floated about...


* SLMR 2.1a * MilliHelen: Amount of beauty needed to launch one ship.

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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Feb 07 2023 02:48 pm

broadcast.
The CIA has the crypto abilities to crack any encryption

Any time something foreign comes close to the US, the CIA is going to want to analyze how it works and what it reports back. During the cold war the Soviets would tail the US fleets with fishing trawlers covered in antennas. The US knew they were tailing them, and listened to anything they broadcasted. While the ballon is in the air, the CIA had the ability to liste n to it.

yeah but the balloon was floating coast to coast with and i don't think there were people in cars following it. and it would have been better to take it down and make sure it got no info period.
---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Feb 07 2023 02:48 pm

The equipment under the ballon broadcast radio frequencies. I'm not an RF guy but if a signal is broadcast, it can be picked up. Agencies such as the CIA and NSA could scan the entire RF spectrum and detect what is being broadcast.

This is true, it's not that difficult to figure out what frequency something is broadcasting on if you know its actual location, and its intended destination (satellites, probably).

The CIA has the crypto abilities to crack any encryption

Right, and the president has a direct line to the military that guards the giant ice wall at the edge of the ---

wait, you're being serious, aren't you?

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH

No, the CIA does not have the ability to crack "any encryption".

DaiTengu

...Among economists, the real world is considered to be a special case.

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Feb 07 2023 02:48 pm

The CIA has the crypto abilities to crack any encryption

Any time something foreign comes close to the US, the CIA is going to want to analyze how it works and what it reports back. During the cold war the Soviets would tail the US fleets with fishing trawlers covered in antennas. The US knew they were tailing them, and listened to anything they broadcasted. While the ballon is in the air, the CIA had the ability to liste n to it.

Oh yeah, and I forgot one other thing -

The CIA isn't authorized to operate independently on US soil. It would likely be the FBI, or US military that was "listening in"

DaiTengu

...Never try to out-stubborn a cat.

---
þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com

Quoting Dumas Walker to Mro <=-

plane. I don't trust them, but I am sure even they know the difference between an unmanned balloon and a plane full of passengers when it
comes to world opinion.

Famous last words...

Cougar

... Unsolicited advice answers unasked questions

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

---
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Quoting Moondog to Dumas Walker <=-

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Sun Feb 05 2023 06:04 pm

They wanted to listen and learn from the balloon. That is why they
waited so long. All of it's tranmissions were intercepted.

Ever the optimist! :)

Military intelligence...

Cougar

... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

---
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Quoting Daitengu to Moondog <=-

No, the CIA does not have the ability to crack "any encryption".

Wait, you mean we've been lied to? It makes me question everything
we've heard or read...

Hah!

Cougar

... BEWARE - Tagline Thief in this echo

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to Moondog on Tue Feb 07 2023 06:10 pm

wait, you're being serious, aren't you?

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH

No, the CIA does not have the ability to crack "any encryption".

i'm pretty sure most decryption they do now is via backdoors in the protocols that they are given by the developers.
---
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MRO wrote to DaiTengu <=-

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to Moondog on Tue Feb 07 2023 06:10 pm

wait, you're being serious, aren't you?
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH
No, the CIA does not have the ability to crack "any encryption".

The above statement is true.

i'm pretty sure most decryption they do now is via backdoors in
the protocols that they are given by the developers.

I'm not sure a person could *BE* any more clueless.


... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to DaiTengu on Tue Feb 07 2023 10:24 pm

i'm pretty sure most decryption they do now is via backdoors in the protocols that they are given by the developers.

the vast majority of encryption protocols in use these days are open source, so a backdoor would have been spotted a long, long time ago.

DaiTengu

...Ignorance is no excuse-it's the real thing.

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Cougar428 to DAITENGU on Tue Feb 07 2023 11:01 pm

No, the CIA does not have the ability to crack "any encryption".

Wait, you mean we've been lied to? It makes me question everything
we've heard or read...

Hah!

who told you the CIA could crack any encryption? the CIA/FBI/etc. certainly wouldn't make that claim.

Heck, even if they COULD crack some kind of popular encryption, they'd probably keep themselves extremely tight-lipped about it so that people didn't move to something they couldn't exploit.

DaiTengu

...Dead people are cool

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to MRO on Wed Feb 08 2023 08:35 am

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to DaiTengu on Tue Feb 07 2023 10:24 pm

i'm pretty sure most decryption they do now is via backdoors in the protocols that they are given by the developers.

the vast majority of encryption protocols in use these days are open source

DaiTengu

...Ignorance is no excuse-it's the real thing.

---
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I am more concerned for software/hardware backdoors than cipher flaws at this point.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to MRO on Wed Feb 08 2023 08:35 am

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to DaiTengu on Tue Feb 07 2023 10:24 pm

i'm pretty sure most decryption they do now is via backdoors in the protocols that they are given by the developers.

the vast majority of encryption protocols in use these days are open source, so a backdoor would have been spotted a long, long time ago.

well that's even worse then. in these cases they can work with the source to figure out a way.

when i wrote that i was thinking about stuff like this https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/20/encryption-backdoor-bill-dangerous-lofgren/ ---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Moondog on Tue Feb 07 2023 07:37 pm

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Feb 07 2023 02:48 pm

broadcast.
The CIA has the crypto abilities to crack any encryption

Any time something foreign comes close to the US, the CIA is going to wan to analyze how it works and what it reports back. During the cold war t Soviets would tail the US fleets with fishing trawlers covered in antenna The US knew they were tailing them, and listened to anything they broadcasted. While the ballon is in the air, the CIA had the ability to liste n to it.

yeah but the balloon was floating coast to coast with and i don't think ther

You don't have to follow it with a car. The balloon will fly within range of
statinary listening posts. If they were sending data back to China, the
sgnal would be easy to pick up once it was identified.

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to Moondog on Tue Feb 07 2023 06:10 pm

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Feb 07 2023 02:48 pm

The equipment under the ballon broadcast radio frequencies. I'm not an guy but if a signal is broadcast, it can be picked up. Agencies such as the CIA and NSA could scan the entire RF spectrum and detect what is be broadcast.

This is true, it's not that difficult to figure out what frequency somethi

The CIA has the crypto abilities to crack any encryption

Right, and the president has a direct line to the military that guards the

wait, you're being serious, aren't you?

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH

No, the CIA does not have the ability to crack "any encryption".

DaiTengu

...Among economists, the real world is considered to be a special case.

They CIA can't decrypt any encryption real time, but they can crack whatever China is using within a matter of days. once a signal is recorded, you an
run through it several times

---
þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to Moondog on Tue Feb 07 2023 06:18 pm

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Feb 07 2023 02:48 pm

The CIA has the crypto abilities to crack any encryption

Any time something foreign comes close to the US, the CIA is going to w to analyze how it works and what it reports back. During the cold war t Soviets would tail the US fleets with fishing trawlers covered in antennas. The US knew they were tailing them, and listened to anything they broadcasted. While the ballon is in the air, the CIA had the abili to liste n to it.

Oh yeah, and I forgot one other thing -

The CIA isn't authorized to operate independently on US soil. It would lik

DaiTengu

...Never try to out-stubborn a cat.

The ballon wasn't on US soil. It was 12.5 miles above the US. It is communication with peopel outside the US, so it would CIA and NSA territory (outside the US and foriegn tranmissions.)

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Cougar428 to MOONDOG on Tue Feb 07 2023 10:56 pm

Quoting Moondog to Dumas Walker <=-

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Sun Feb 05 2023 06:04 pm

They wanted to listen and learn from the balloon. That is why they waited so long. All of it's tranmissions were intercepted.

Ever the optimist! :)

Military intelligence...

Cougar

... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

There was no reason to drag ass so long and not shoot it down unless you want to observe or listen in on it.

---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed Feb 08 2023 02:19 pm

You don't have to follow it with a car. The balloon will fly within range of
statinary listening posts. If they were sending data back to China, the sgnal would be easy to pick up once it was identified.

yeah, ok
---
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Moondog to DaiTengu on Wed Feb 08 2023 02:32 pm

The ballon wasn't on US soil. It was 12.5 miles above the US. It is communication with peopel outside the US, so it would CIA and NSA territory (outside the US and foriegn tranmissions.)

that's our airspace.
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Quoting Daitengu to Cougar428 <=-

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Cougar428 to DAITENGU on Tue Feb 07 2023 11:01 pm

No, the CIA does not have the ability to crack "any encryption".

Wait, you mean we've been lied to? It makes me question everything
we've heard or read...

Hah!

who told you the CIA could crack any encryption? the CIA/FBI/etc. certainly wouldn't make that claim.

I'm sure you realize I was kidding, it seemed in line with your
reply...

Heck, even if they COULD crack some kind of popular encryption, they'd probably keep themselves extremely tight-lipped about it so that
people didn't move to something they couldn't exploit.

Agreed. Intelligent way of handling things.

Cougar


___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to MRO on Wed Feb 08 2023 08:35 am

the vast majority of encryption
protocols in use these days are open
source, so a backdoor would have bee
spotted a long, long time ago.

Most of that stuff these days uses
pubilc/private key pairs. You very much
could make an algorithm with a "master
key" that is undetectable just looking
at the code.

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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to Cougar428 on Wed Feb 08 2023 08:38 am

who told you the CIA could crack any encryption? the CIA/FBI/etc. certainly wouldn't make that claim.

Yeah..WHO???

|07 HusTler

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Hello Phigan!

** On Friday 10.02.23 - 15:55, Phigan wrote to DaiTengu:

the vast majority of encryption
protocols in use these days are open
source, so a backdoor would have bee
spotted a long, long time ago.

Most of that stuff these days uses
pubilc/private key pairs. You very much
could make an algorithm with a "master
key" that is undetectable just looking
at the code.

But I would imaging that it is hard to hide the functionality
of "master key" in open-source code.

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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Ogg to Phigan on Sat Feb 11 2023 08:41 am

key" that is undetectable just looking
at the code.

But I would imaging that it is hard to hide the functionality
of "master key" in open-source code.

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open source.

heartbleed
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Ogg on Sat Feb 11 2023 04:53 pm

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Ogg to Phigan on Sat Feb 11 2023 08:41 am

key" that is undetectable just looking
at the code.

But I would imaging that it is hard to hide the functionality
of "master key" in open-source code.

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open source.

heartbleed

Open source is *more* secure than closed. The Heartbleed vulnerability was discovered and fixed *because* it was open source.

Open source doesn't mean *anyone* can make changes (e.g. adding bugs or intentional vulnerabilities) - but it does mean that *anyone* can thoroughly analyze the source code and report issues and even suggest fixes.
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #5:
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Feb 11 2023 04:06 pm

But I would imaging that it is hard to hide the functionality
of "master key" in open-source code.

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open source.

heartbleed

Open source is *more* secure than closed. The Heartbleed vulnerability was discovered and fixed *because* it was open source.

Open source doesn't mean *anyone* can make changes (e.g. adding bugs or intentional vulnerabilities) - but it does mean that *anyone* can thoroughly analyze the source code and report issues and even suggest fixes.

heartbleed was introduced in the openssl lib in 2012. it was discovered and fixed in 2014. there's still unpatched systems on the internet.

is that any better than closed source? I'm sure closed sourced programs have their exploits fixed in a comparable time.
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Ogg on Sat Feb 11 2023 04:53 pm

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open source.

heartbleed

Open-source developers are also human and make mistakes sometimes. Open-source software can have bugs and vulnerabilities, just like any other piece of software. I don't think it's any more of a security risk than software that isn't open-source. But open-source has the advantage that a lot more people can look at it and possibly catch issues. And it's probably more likely that many of those people don't have a vested interest in purposefully putting backdoors or other vulerabilities in there.

Nightfox

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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Feb 11 2023 06:34 pm

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open source.

heartbleed

Open source is *more* secure than closed. The Heartbleed vulnerability was discovered and fixed *because* it was open source.

Open source doesn't mean *anyone* can make changes (e.g. adding bugs or intentional vulnerabilities) - but it does mean that *anyone* can thoroughly analyze the source code and report issues and even suggest fixes.

heartbleed was introduced in the openssl lib in 2012. it was discovered and fixed in 2014. there's still unpatched systems on the internet.

is that any better than closed source?

Yes. There are many more eyes and tools being used to validate that code than an most closed source projects.

I'm sure closed sourced programs have
their exploits fixed in a comparable time.

Or they don't get fixed because they're not disclosed. There's really no way to know for sure. But with open source, you can know for sure.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #59:
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Feb 11 2023 06:44 pm

Or they don't get fixed because they're not disclosed. There's really no way to know for sure. But with open source, you can know for sure.

You only know for sure if someone catches it. And in the past that's been demonstrated to be years. 2 years is a long time (in heartbleed's case).

Heartbleed was known about for 2 years and exploited by the NSA.
I'm just using heartbleed as an example because that's the only one i followed because it affected me because I was running server software.

The best way to hide something is out in the open. With any opensource project someone can add dangerous code and it can be overlooked. Even with extensive apparent oversight it's happened.
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Feb 11 2023 09:24 pm

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Feb 11 2023 06:44 pm

Or they don't get fixed because they're not disclosed. There's really no way to know for sure. But with open source, you can know for sure.

You only know for sure if someone catches it. And in the past that's been demonstrated to be years. 2 years is a long time (in heartbleed's case).

Heartbleed was known about for 2 years and exploited by the NSA.
I'm just using heartbleed as an example because that's the only one i followed because it affected me because I was running server software.

The best way to hide something is out in the open. With any opensource project someone can add dangerous code and it can be overlooked. Even with extensive apparent oversight it's happened.

And someone can not add dangerous code that's overlooked to close source code? Of course they can, except you have a lot fewer eyes and tools to can find and fix the issues.
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #26:
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Feb 11 2023 08:57 pm

The best way to hide something is out in the open. With any opensource project someone can add dangerous code and it can be overlooked. Even with extensive apparent oversight it's happened.

And someone can not add dangerous code that's overlooked to close source code? Of course they can, except you have a lot fewer eyes and tools to can

find and fix the issues.

my point is there's a false sense of security in open source software.
I think in the end, it's a wash. I think closed source and open source might be on the same level. Possibly, even closed source is safer.
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Feb 11 2023 11:21 pm

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Feb 11 2023 08:57 pm

The best way to hide something is out in the open. With any opensource project someone can add dangerous code and it can be overlooked. Even with extensive apparent oversight it's happened.

And someone can not add dangerous code that's overlooked to close source code? Of course they can, except you have a lot fewer eyes and tools to can
find and fix the issues.

my point is there's a false sense of security in open source software.

That's true of all software.

I think in the end, it's a wash. I think closed source and open source might be on the same level. Possibly, even closed source is safer.

There are ton of published researched articles on the web supporting the argument that open source software is generally more secure. The opposite claim isn't easy to find. I trust software more when I know it's had a lot of eyeballs on it and I think most engineers and corporations in the know feel the same.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #25:
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is that any better than closed source? I'm sure closed sourced programs have t
ir exploits fixed in a comparable time.

Maybe but, with fewer eyes on it, potentially exploitable code can languish
in a project for years before someone finds the hole and takes advantage.


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my point is there's a false sense of security in open source software.

If you believe it is 100% safe then, yes, that is correct and, yes, I have
met some people who think that is true.


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MRO wrote to Ogg <=-

key" that is undetectable just looking
at the code.

But I would imaging that it is hard to hide the functionality
of "master key" in open-source code.

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open
source.

Another demonstration of how clueless a person can be. HAR!


... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Feb 12 2023 09:09 am

But I would imaging that it is hard to hide the functionality
of "master key" in open-source code.

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open
source.

Years ago, I was looking for a job and I had a job interview at one company where the interviewer asked what I thought about Linux. I've always had a mostly positive view of Linux. He said he thought Linux was basically inherently something you couldn't trust because, since it's open-source, he thought anyone could go in and put malware in it. And he said he trusted Windows more because Windows is made by a small group of people who are paid to develop it, so they have a vested interest in making sure it works well and is secure.

Nightfox

---
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dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open
source.

it's open-source, he thought anyone could go in and put malware in it. And he said he trusted Windows more because Windows is made by a small group of people who are paid to develop it, so they have a vested
interest in making sure it works well and is secure.

ok, you guys think its so easy to upload a virus to a linux distro,
then go ahead and upload one...

John H. Guillory
call sign KF5QEO
URL: kf5qeo.servebbs.net
KF5QEO's Shack BBS

... This virus requires Microsoft Windows 3.x

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: kf5qeo's Shack

Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Feb 12 2023 09:59 am

is that any better than closed source? I'm sure closed sourced programs have t
ir exploits fixed in a comparable time.

Maybe but, with fewer eyes on it, potentially exploitable code can languish in a project for years before someone finds the hole and takes advantage.

yeah but it's been proven that code in the public eye went undetected for years and was exploited.

I think opensource is either as safe as commercial code or maybe even less.
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Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: John Guillory to Nightfox on Sun Feb 12 2023 02:16 pm

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open
source.

it's open-source, he thought anyone could go in and put malware in it. And he said he trusted Windows more because Windows is made by a small group of people who are paid to develop it, so they have a vested interest in making sure it works well and is secure.

ok, you guys think its so easy to upload a virus to a linux distro,
then go ahead and upload one...

John H. Guillory
call sign KF5QEO
URL: kf5qeo.servebbs.net
KF5QEO's Shack BBS

you're safe because you don't even know how to forward a port in your router. security through stupidity.

i do see your tacky default ubuntu html page though

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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Feb 12 2023 10:06 am

my point is there's a false sense of security in open source software.

If you believe it is 100% safe then, yes, that is correct and, yes, I have met some people who think that is true.

I think a large amount of people who say they like opensource because it's so secure due to public scrutiny believe it's 100% safe deep down.

Like I said, the easiest place to hide something is out in the open.
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Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Nightfox to Gamgee on Sun Feb 12 2023 10:09 am

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open
source.

Years ago, I was looking for a job and I had a job interview at one company where the interviewer asked what I thought about Linux. I've always had a mostly positive view of Linux. He said he thought Linux was basically inherently something you couldn't trust because, since it's open-source, he thought anyone could go in and put malware in it.

He probably read that in DATAMATION magazine, had his gal clip the article and sent it through interoffice mail to his managers.

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Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Feb 12 2023 09:09 am

But I would imaging that it is hard to hide the functionality
of "master key" in open-source code.

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open
source.

Years ago, I was looking for a job and I had a job interview at
one company where the interviewer asked what I thought about
Linux. I've always had a mostly positive view of Linux. He said
he thought Linux was basically inherently something you couldn't
trust because, since it's open-source, he thought anyone could go
in and put malware in it. And he said he trusted Windows more
because Windows is made by a small group of people who are paid
to develop it, so they have a vested interest in making sure it
works well and is secure.

<GRIN>

I'm thinking (hoping?) that maybe you didn't take that job... ;-)



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MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

I think a large amount of people who say they like opensource
because it's so secure due to public scrutiny believe it's 100%
safe deep down.

Like I said, the easiest place to hide something is out in the
open.

Yeah, we all see you keep on saying stupid shit, right out in the open.

<CHORTLE>



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: John Guillory to Nightfox on Sun Feb 12 2023 02:16 pm

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open
source.

it's open-source, he thought anyone could go in and put malware in
it. And he said he trusted Windows more because Windows is made by a
small group of people who are paid to develop it, so they have a
vested interest in making sure it works well and is secure.

ok, you guys think its so easy to upload a virus to a linux distro,
then go ahead and upload one...

I wasn't saying it was - I was talking about someone who interviewed me for a job once. I disagree with that.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Sun Feb 12 2023 05:33 pm

Years ago, I was looking for a job and I had a job interview at
one company where the interviewer asked what I thought about
Linux. I've always had a mostly positive view of Linux. He said
he thought Linux was basically inherently something you couldn't
trust because, since it's open-source, he thought anyone could go
in and put malware in it. And he said he trusted Windows more
because Windows is made by a small group of people who are paid
to develop it, so they have a vested interest in making sure it
works well and is secure.

<GRIN>

I'm thinking (hoping?) that maybe you didn't take that job... ;-)

From what I remember, I wasn't chosen for a job offer from them.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Nightfox to John Guillory on Sun Feb 12 2023 06:12 pm

ok, you guys think its so easy to upload a virus to a linux distro, then go ahead and upload one...

I wasn't saying it was - I was talking about someone who interviewed me for a job once. I disagree with that.

john has the best security. he's not connectable. go nmap him.
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Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Nightfox to Gamgee on Sun Feb 12 2023 10:09 am

dude, opensource has been a security risk since it's been open
source.

Years ago, I was looking for a job and I had a job interview at one company where the interviewer asked what I thought about Linux. I've always had a mostly positive view of Linux. He said he thought Linux was basically inherently something you couldn't trust because, since it's open-source, he thought anyone could go in and put malware in it. And he said he trusted Windows more because Windows is made by a small group of people who are paid to develop it, so they have a vested interest in making sure it works well and is secure.

It turns out, MRO was that interviewer.

DaiTengu

...Spaceballs: The Tagline

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Re: Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Mon Feb 13 2023 07:59 am

group of people who are paid to develop it, so they have a vested interest in making sure it works well and is secure.

It turns out, MRO was that interviewer.

DaiTengu

dont be a fucking retard. i gave an example of how opensource is not safe, and was wideopen and even exploited by the nsa for 2 years.
There were plenty of contributers there stroking eachother's dicks but it took that long to catch it.

that is a fact.

There people that blindly believe something and then there's facts.
open source not safer than closed source if you look at the big picture.
it's not safe if people don't do their part as contributers and members of the community.
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Re: fucking chinese balloon
By: Ogg to Phigan on Sat Feb 11 2023 08:41 am

But I would imaging that it is hard
hide the functionality
of "master key" in open-source code.

There's nothing to hide. With a master
key, it would just act as the correct
private key.

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