• Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha

    From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Ogg on Monday, July 20, 2020 10:31:00
    Ogg wrote to All <=-

    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Friday 17.07.20 - 17:04, nightfox wrote to MRO:

    ...new Linux distribution that looks pretty much just like Windows 10:
    https://youtu.be/UEVM9W2H3ow

    normally i would shit on this, but i like some of the things i see in the
    video. i'm going to check it out in vm right now

    Yeah, I don't really think a Linux distro needs to look exactly like Windows, but some of the things there looked interesting.

    I think the strength and appeal of the linux distros is that their
    designs *are* fresh and innovative - and *can* be far removed from the "look" of Windows.

    Sure.. throw in a Windows background and use one of the distros that resembles Windows menuing if you really can't bear missing Windows.
    But why would you want to dumb-down the look and operations like that?

    My last foray into linux distros was an early Ubuntu when they offered them for free via mail. Ubuntu completely revitalized my then maxed-out WinME pc - and even performed better! The look n feel and operations
    were wonderful. Even the smaller ones like Puppy seemed amazing. That
    was over 15 years ago.

    A couple years ago, I had an opportunity to equip a friend's failed XP system with a linux distro. (The person had no budget for a new pc,
    but they needed to retain some legacy support with an existing printer
    and an all their photos.)

    When I started looking at the various distro offerings, I was amazed
    how far along the designs and operations had come. The choices between
    all the different desktops KDE Xfce LXLE MATE etc.. were wonderful to experience. So nice.

    I am looking at getting a new(er) laptop for the family, and my wife is a lifelong Apple user. The reality is that we don't specifically need a Mac, so the extra dollars it costs to get an equivalently powered machine that runs Mac OS isn't really justified, especially when you factor in the cost of keeping a current version of Mac OS running.
    The main programs run are just Firefox, Thunderbird and a photo viewer. But my wife would prefer a familiar interface, so Linux is an easier sell if it can operate the same way.

    This is probably the only scenario where mimicking an existing OS helps, when you want to use a better option but someone ELSE doesn't. For those who will move on their own accord, I think the fact that Linux offers something different is more appealing. It was for me. When I first started AfterStep and saw a new type of UI, very different to the taskbar/startmenu set up that GNOME had, I was quite impressed by the possibilities that were open, that I wasn't confined to a particular set up or vision.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dennisk on Monday, July 20, 2020 11:13:00
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dennisk to Ogg on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:31 am

    Ogg wrote to All <=-

    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Friday 17.07.20 - 17:04, nightfox wrote to MRO:

    ...new Linux distribution that looks pretty much just like Windows 10:
    https://youtu.be/UEVM9W2H3ow

    normally i would shit on this, but i like some of the things i see in
    video. i'm going to check it out in vm right now

    Yeah, I don't really think a Linux distro needs to look exactly like Windows, but some of the things there looked interesting.

    I think the strength and appeal of the linux distros is that their designs *are* fresh and innovative - and *can* be far removed from the "look" of Windows.

    Sure.. throw in a Windows background and use one of the distros that resembles Windows menuing if you really can't bear missing Windows.
    But why would you want to dumb-down the look and operations like that?

    My last foray into linux distros was an early Ubuntu when they offered them for free via mail. Ubuntu completely revitalized my then maxed-out WinME pc - and even performed better! The look n feel and operations were wonderful. Even the smaller ones like Puppy seemed amazing. That was over 15 years ago.

    A couple years ago, I had an opportunity to equip a friend's failed XP system with a linux distro. (The person had no budget for a new pc, but they needed to retain some legacy support with an existing printer and an all their photos.)

    When I started looking at the various distro offerings, I was amazed how far along the designs and operations had come. The choices between all the different desktops KDE Xfce LXLE MATE etc.. were wonderful to experience. So nice.

    I am looking at getting a new(er) laptop for the family, and my wife is a lifelong Apple user. The reality is that we don't specifically need a Mac, the extra dollars it costs to get an equivalently powered machine that runs OS isn't really justified, especially when you factor in the cost of keeping current version of Mac OS running.
    The main programs run are just Firefox, Thunderbird and a photo viewer. But wife would prefer a familiar interface, so Linux is an easier sell if it can operate the same way.

    This is probably the only scenario where mimicking an existing OS helps, whe you want to use a better option but someone ELSE doesn't. For those who wil move on their own accord, I think the fact that Linux offers something different is more appealing. It was for me. When I first started AfterStep and saw a new type of UI, very different to the taskbar/startmenu set up tha GNOME had, I was quite impressed by the possibilities that were open, that I wasn't confined to a particular set up or vision.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    Gnome is very silmilar to the OSX gui.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Moondog on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:05:00
    Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dennisk to Ogg on Mon Jul 20 2020 10:31 am

    Ogg wrote to All <=-

    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Friday 17.07.20 - 17:04, nightfox wrote to MRO:

    ...new Linux distribution that looks pretty much just like Windows 10:
    https://youtu.be/UEVM9W2H3ow

    normally i would shit on this, but i like some of the things i see in
    video. i'm going to check it out in vm right now

    Yeah, I don't really think a Linux distro needs to look exactly like Windows, but some of the things there looked interesting.

    I think the strength and appeal of the linux distros is that their designs *are* fresh and innovative - and *can* be far removed from the "look" of Windows.

    Sure.. throw in a Windows background and use one of the distros that resembles Windows menuing if you really can't bear missing Windows.
    But why would you want to dumb-down the look and operations like that?

    My last foray into linux distros was an early Ubuntu when they offered them for free via mail. Ubuntu completely revitalized my then maxed-out WinME pc - and even performed better! The look n feel and operations were wonderful. Even the smaller ones like Puppy seemed amazing. That was over 15 years ago.

    A couple years ago, I had an opportunity to equip a friend's failed XP system with a linux distro. (The person had no budget for a new pc, but they needed to retain some legacy support with an existing printer and an all their photos.)

    When I started looking at the various distro offerings, I was amazed how far along the designs and operations had come. The choices between all the different desktops KDE Xfce LXLE MATE etc.. were wonderful to experience. So nice.

    I am looking at getting a new(er) laptop for the family, and my wife is a lifelong Apple user. The reality is that we don't specifically need a Mac, the extra dollars it costs to get an equivalently powered machine that runs OS isn't really justified, especially when you factor in the cost of keeping current version of Mac OS running.
    The main programs run are just Firefox, Thunderbird and a photo viewer. But wife would prefer a familiar interface, so Linux is an easier sell if it can operate the same way.

    This is probably the only scenario where mimicking an existing OS helps, whe you want to use a better option but someone ELSE doesn't. For those who wil move on their own accord, I think the fact that Linux offers something different is more appealing. It was for me. When I first started AfterStep and saw a new type of UI, very different to the taskbar/startmenu set up tha GNOME had, I was quite impressed by the possibilities that were open, that I wasn't confined to a particular set up or vision.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    Gnome is very silmilar to the OSX gui.

    Kind of. I've used OS X at work for a few years, but I never got the GNOME 3 GUI. I tried it, but found it convoluted. Maybe with the OS X experience I'll give Gnome another try, but I can't see myself liking it. Gnome is dead to me.

    If you want something Mac like, you'd probably choose elementary OS.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Dennisk on Monday, July 20, 2020 19:51:00
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Jul 21 2020 10:05 am

    Kind of. I've used OS X at work for a few years, but I never got the GNOME 3 GUI. I tried it, but found it convoluted. Maybe with the OS X experience I'll give Gnome another try, but I can't see myself liking it. Gnome is dead to me.
    If you want something Mac like, you'd probably choose elementary OS.

    I've never been a big fan of Gnome. I understand why some like it, but it just seems like a lot more work to truly customize it than something like xfce.

    XFCE with the right window decorations, theme, and dock, can be made to feel like just about anything. My main desktop has an OSX inspired look, but cleaner and with proper multi-display setup.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 09:08:00
    Hello Dennisk!

    ** On Monday 20.07.20 - 11:31, dennisk wrote to Ogg:

    When I started looking at the various distro offerings, I was amazed
    how far along the designs and operations had come. The choices
    between all the different desktops KDE Xfce LXLE MATE etc.. were
    wonderful to experience. So nice.

    I am looking at getting a new(er) laptop for the family, and my wife
    is a lifelong Apple user. The reality is that we don't specifically
    need a Mac, so the extra dollars it costs to get an equivalently
    powered machine that runs Mac OS isn't really justified,

    One thing that impressed with the Mac approach was that the OS and
    upgrades to the next version were practically free. The admission cost to play with it was/is buying specific hardware.


    especially when you factor in the cost of keeping a current version of
    Mac OS running. The main programs run are just Firefox, Thunderbird
    and a photo viewer. But my wife would prefer a familiar interface, so Linux is an easier sell if it can operate the same way.

    I think you will have fun and success with that. The distros and desktop environment choices out there are so nice. The plank menu thing would be
    the primary presentation. Then, considering that pretty much everything
    else computer-wise only needs a browser, email and a photo manager, Linux
    is probably fine for most people. An added bonus: much less heartache regarding malware and security fixes.


    This is probably the only scenario where mimicking an existing OS
    helps, when you want to use a better option but someone ELSE doesn't.

    And.. if the person who is crying for aMac (but hasn't really worked with
    a Mac) keeps insisting on a Mac, then you can show them something really close to Mac-like ..and they can probably adapt to it quite nicely.


    For those who will move on their own accord, I think the fact that
    Linux offers something different is more appealing. It was for me.
    When I first started AfterStep and saw a new type of UI, very
    different to the taskbar/startmenu set up that GNOME had, I was quite impressed by the possibilities that were open, that I wasn't confined
    to a particular set up or vision.

    Never heard of AfterStep. I'm not exposed to that circle of unix things.
    But I like what I see! "Shows to go you" that if I (and I am not averse
    to exploring new computer things) can miss developments like AfterStep and even some of the fine new Linux distro rollouts, a vast number of other people who simply need a browser, email, and photomanager - are missing
    out on being unshackled from the Windows mindset.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Underminer on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 09:42:00
    Underminer wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Jul 21 2020 10:05 am

    Kind of. I've used OS X at work for a few years, but I never got the GNOME 3 GUI. I tried it, but found it convoluted. Maybe with the OS X experience I'll give Gnome another try, but I can't see myself liking it. Gnome is dead to me.
    If you want something Mac like, you'd probably choose elementary OS.

    I've never been a big fan of Gnome. I understand why some like it, but
    it just seems like a lot more work to truly customize it than something like xfce.

    XFCE with the right window decorations, theme, and dock, can be made to feel like just about anything. My main desktop has an OSX inspired
    look, but cleaner and with proper multi-display setup. ---
    Underminer

    XFCE is pretty good, I used to use it for a while on my laptop, as it was more like the good Gnome that Gnome 3 was. Gnome 3 is braindead, I was shocked that you had to install some extensions to get BASIC customisation options. That and their arrogant attitude really put me off. Shame, because I liked Gnome 1.

    FVWM is my Window Manager of choice, far more customisable (though more difficult to customize) than any other I've used. The most underrated of them all.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Ogg on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 09:55:00
    Ogg wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Hello Dennisk!

    ** On Monday 20.07.20 - 11:31, dennisk wrote to Ogg:

    When I started looking at the various distro offerings, I was amazed
    how far along the designs and operations had come. The choices
    between all the different desktops KDE Xfce LXLE MATE etc.. were
    wonderful to experience. So nice.

    I am looking at getting a new(er) laptop for the family, and my wife
    is a lifelong Apple user. The reality is that we don't specifically
    need a Mac, so the extra dollars it costs to get an equivalently
    powered machine that runs Mac OS isn't really justified,

    One thing that impressed with the Mac approach was that the OS and upgrades to the next version were practically free. The admission cost
    to play with it was/is buying specific hardware.

    I'm open to getting a Mac, but my wife uses Apple products and finds herself in a position now and then that what she wants to do is no longer supported. Whether it is iTunes syncing with the phone, or whatever. Maybe its just a matter of updating the OS, but we don't keep the hardware up to date. She is relunctant to update the OS because it slows things down.

    I don't have that problem with Linux, which is why I'm leaning towards that. Despite the fact my desktop is 10 years old, the software is still bleeding edge. And if your hardware is a little older, you can just move to a lighter DE like XFCE, which does make a difference.

    However, I wasn't really aware that updating Mac OS X was next to free, that does indeed change things.

    especially when you factor in the cost of keeping a current version of
    Mac OS running. The main programs run are just Firefox, Thunderbird
    and a photo viewer. But my wife would prefer a familiar interface, so Linux is an easier sell if it can operate the same way.

    I think you will have fun and success with that. The distros and
    desktop environment choices out there are so nice. The plank menu
    thing would be the primary presentation. Then, considering that pretty much everything else computer-wise only needs a browser, email and a
    photo manager, Linux is probably fine for most people. An added bonus: much less heartache regarding malware and security fixes.

    I'm more familiar with it, so if anything needs to be done, I'll know what to do. While my wife is more familiar with the Mac interface, she doesn't really know how the OS works, so any OS updates and software installs and troubleshooting I'll have to do anyway.

    This is probably the only scenario where mimicking an existing OS
    helps, when you want to use a better option but someone ELSE doesn't.

    And.. if the person who is crying for aMac (but hasn't really worked
    with a Mac) keeps insisting on a Mac, then you can show them something really close to Mac-like ..and they can probably adapt to it quite nicely.


    For those who will move on their own accord, I think the fact that
    Linux offers something different is more appealing. It was for me.
    When I first started AfterStep and saw a new type of UI, very
    different to the taskbar/startmenu set up that GNOME had, I was quite impressed by the possibilities that were open, that I wasn't confined
    to a particular set up or vision.

    Never heard of AfterStep. I'm not exposed to that circle of unix
    things. But I like what I see! "Shows to go you" that if I (and I am
    not averse to exploring new computer things) can miss developments like AfterStep and even some of the fine new Linux distro rollouts, a vast number of other people who simply need a browser, email, and
    photomanager - are missing out on being unshackled from the Windows mindset.

    AfterStep is old now, but it was cool back then because I had only ever really used Win 3.1 and Windows 95/NT, so seeing that you could have a different GUI completely, on the SAME OS was quite interesting. Up until then I was used to an OS having a fixed, standard GUI. When I first used Linux I used GNOME, thinking "OK, this is the Linux GUI", but then I saw you could choose a different environment, I tried out and, and saw a new GUI style, in the same OS, without even having to reboot or reconfigure.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 21:36:00
    Hello Dennisk!

    ** On Wednesday 22.07.20 - 10:55, dennisk wrote to Ogg:

    One thing that impressed with the Mac approach was that the OS and
    upgrades to the next version were practically free. The admission cost Og>> to play with it was/is buying specific hardware.

    I'm open to getting a Mac, but my wife uses Apple products and finds herself in a position now and then that what she wants to do is no
    longer supported. Whether it is iTunes syncing with the phone, or
    whatever. Maybe its just a matter of updating the OS, but we don't
    keep the hardware up to date. She is relunctant to update the OS
    because it slows things down.

    Regarding slowing things down, is there room to add more ram?

    I think iTunes is the only game in town if you absolutely need to sync
    with an Apple device. Do you still need the ability to purchase your
    music from iTunes too? I think I ran into some difficulty getting a linux distro to work with the windows version of iTunes. Wine was/is the only
    way, but I had different results depending on the core distro. I even considered the commercial CrossOver as a last resort (but it is 32bit
    only)


    I don't have that problem with Linux, which is why I'm leaning towards that. Despite the fact my desktop is 10 years old, the software is
    still bleeding edge. And if your hardware is a little older, you can
    just move to a lighter DE like XFCE, which does make a difference.

    The was part of the fun I was having trying to find the best distro to
    match the modest hardware I was working with. I really liked all the
    choices and their different desktop environments.


    However, I wasn't really aware that updating Mac OS X was next to
    free, that does indeed change things.

    Yes.. OS downloads are free. The only concern is that the upgrade/new OS version is supported with the existing hardware. There is a point where
    the latest version would nolonger be possible on some hardware. At that point Apple would be very pleased with your next hardware purchase! LOL


    I'm more familiar with it, so if anything needs to be done, I'll know
    what to do. While my wife is more familiar with the Mac interface,
    she doesn't really know how the OS works, so any OS updates and
    software installs and troubleshooting I'll have to do anyway.

    If you can get Wine or CrossOver to cooperate with iTunes, 90% of reaching that familiary will be accomplished!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Dennisk on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 20:28:42
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dennisk to Underminer on Wed Jul 22 2020 09:42 am

    FVWM is my Window Manager of choice, far more customisable (though more difficult to customize) than any other I've used. The most underrated of them all.

    Interesting. I hadn't heard of it, and may have to check it out. That said, I haven't found anything that you can't customize about xfce, though some things take more effort than others.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to Ogg on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 17:26:59
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Ogg to Dennisk on Tue Jul 21 2020 09:36 pm

    Yes.. OS downloads are free. The only concern is that the upgrade/new OS version is supported with the existing hardware. There is a point where the latest version would nolonger be possible on some hardware. At that point Apple would be very pleased with your next hardware purchase! LOL

    This hasnt impacted me.

    I'm happily running Catalina (the current OSX) on my 2013 iMac, and as much as I would love to upgrade to something newer, I just cannot justify the spend. My iMac works really well still..

    My son is using my old 2012 Macbook Air, and the only reason he got it is because my work gave me an Macbook Pro. It too is running Catalina just fine.

    ...ëîåï

    ... I got some powdered water, but I don't know what to add.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Ogg on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 21:11:00
    Ogg wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Hello Dennisk!

    ** On Wednesday 22.07.20 - 10:55, dennisk wrote to Ogg:

    One thing that impressed with the Mac approach was that the OS and
    upgrades to the next version were practically free. The admission cost
    to play with it was/is buying specific hardware.

    I'm open to getting a Mac, but my wife uses Apple products and finds herself in a position now and then that what she wants to do is no
    longer supported. Whether it is iTunes syncing with the phone, or whatever. Maybe its just a matter of updating the OS, but we don't
    keep the hardware up to date. She is relunctant to update the OS
    because it slows things down.

    Regarding slowing things down, is there room to add more ram?

    I think iTunes is the only game in town if you absolutely need to sync with an Apple device. Do you still need the ability to purchase your music from iTunes too? I think I ran into some difficulty getting a
    linux distro to work with the windows version of iTunes. Wine was/is
    the only way, but I had different results depending on the core distro.
    I even considered the commercial CrossOver as a last resort (but it is 32bit only)

    There might be an opportunity to do that. It is a 2.4GHz CPU, or something close to that. Not speedy, but enough. We can always keep the Macbook for light use anyway.

    I don't have that problem with Linux, which is why I'm leaning towards that. Despite the fact my desktop is 10 years old, the software is
    still bleeding edge. And if your hardware is a little older, you can
    just move to a lighter DE like XFCE, which does make a difference.

    The was part of the fun I was having trying to find the best distro to match the modest hardware I was working with. I really liked all the choices and their different desktop environments.

    Puppy Linux is great for modest hardware. Easy to use, well thought out.

    However, I wasn't really aware that updating Mac OS X was next to
    free, that does indeed change things.

    Yes.. OS downloads are free. The only concern is that the upgrade/new
    OS version is supported with the existing hardware. There is a point where the latest version would nolonger be possible on some hardware.
    At that point Apple would be very pleased with your next hardware purchase! LOL

    That is indeed the main reason why I'm looking at Linux. That doesn't seem to be an issue there.

    I'm more familiar with it, so if anything needs to be done, I'll know
    what to do. While my wife is more familiar with the Mac interface,
    she doesn't really know how the OS works, so any OS updates and
    software installs and troubleshooting I'll have to do anyway.

    If you can get Wine or CrossOver to cooperate with iTunes, 90% of
    reaching that familiary will be accomplished!

    As mentioned, we can always keep the Macbook as a spare machine, just in case we do specifically need an Apple machine.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Dennisk@VERT/EOTLBBS to Underminer on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 21:18:00
    Underminer wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dennisk to Underminer on Wed Jul 22 2020 09:42 am

    FVWM is my Window Manager of choice, far more customisable (though more difficult to customize) than any other I've used. The most underrated of them all.

    Interesting. I hadn't heard of it, and may have to check it out. That said, I haven't found anything that you can't customize about xfce,
    though some things take more effort than others. ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    = Synchronet = The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

    FVWM was the original Linux windows manager. With FVWM, you can lay out buttons and objects on the screen as you wish, create forms that can take input and run commands based on that input, hook in your own scripts to buttons and window menus, create FVWM scripts to build your own GUI dialogues and basic programs. You can build buttons that within them, run an X program.

    It at times feels like you are using a GUI toolkit instead of just a window manager, and in some ways it really is more a framework to build a GUI than a set window manager. Of course, such configuration is not easy, you don't have a nice Control Panel, but its powerful enough that you can pretty much build your own GUI. You can start with someones configuration that you like, and go from there.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 09:11:01
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dennisk to Ogg on Wed Jul 22 2020 09:55 am

    However, I wasn't really aware that updating Mac OS X was next to free, that does indeed change things.

    Not next to free, it IS free, as far as I know, as long as you have purchased a Mac.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to All on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 17:32:00
    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Wednesday 22.07.20 - 12:11, nightfox wrote to Dennisk:

    However, I wasn't really aware that updating Mac OS X was next to
    free, that does indeed change things.

    Not next to free, it IS free, as far as I know, as long as you have
    purchased a Mac.

    Just to clarify my original statement "practically free".. I meant the
    there *is* the cost of accessing the internet.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to alterego on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 14:57:00
    I'm happily running Catalina (the current OSX) on my 2013 iMac, and as much as I would love to upgrade to something newer, I just cannot
    justify the spend. My i Mac works really well still..
    ...ëîåï

    I don't mean to jump into ya'll convo... but I, also, use Apple machines and
    am quite happy with the current OS. I *have* ran into a couple software
    issues, where I couldn't run the older 32bit apps. Most were specialty things that I REALLY wanted to use, too as they were for project I was doing on a Raspi Pi or other things. Where there wasn't a linux version - so it sucks
    that with software that isn't upgraded in 2020 that Catalina stops me in
    those tracks...

    However, I have a big ole 27" iMac, Apple TVs and iPhones... everything 'pretty' I use my Apple stuff.. and the handoff features are great; so I can share files, or send maps, contacts, text messages etc etc easily whether I'm at home, on the road or just away from the computers. I love Apples
    ecosystem, however its either all-in or nothing.. so for ME, my cell phones, TVs and 'pretty things' computer are all Apple.

    But I mainly use Linux as my daily driver, project OS, BBS os and the
    hammer... when I need it to run without fail, I load some linux, FreeBSD or *IX.

    Unlike most linux people, I'm not willing to let go of my Apple experience. Because nothing looks or feels as good as my 5k Apple iMac... to me. And another reason; they freaking GOT ME... I've been on iPhone for so long, own
    so many movies and content on Apple; they hooked me just like they wanted
    too, and I'd lose functionality if I DID stop using Apple products...

    70% linux, 30% Apple... works for me.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
    |08.........
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to paulie420 on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 19:53:40
    Unlike most linux people, I'm not willing to let go of my Apple experience. Because nothing looks or feels as good as my 5k Apple iMac... to me. And another reason; they freaking GOT ME... I've been on iPhone for so long, own so many movies and content on Apple; they hooked me just like they wanted too, and I'd lose functionality if I DID stop using Apple products...

    Yeah.. I have to admit that I a member of the same club. My stuff are
    mostly apple too. It's the comfort and that everything work together seamlessly.

    Hello my name is Ennev and I'm an apple addict.

    p.s. and with parallel I run windows 10 and Linux all at the same time
    on the same screen. Comfy !

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to Dennisk on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 14:32:00
    Dennisk wrote to Ogg <=-

    The was part of the fun I was having trying to find the best distro to match the modest hardware I was working with. I really liked all the choices and their different desktop environments.

    Puppy Linux is great for modest hardware. Easy to use, well thought
    out.

    Good to see others out there are aware of Puppy Linux. I used it for a few years, and almost went with a derivitive this time that has 64-bit support.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 21:29:45
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Ennev to paulie420 on Wed Jul 22 2020 07:53 pm

    Unlike most linux people, I'm not willing to let go of my Apple
    experience. Because nothing looks or feels as good as my 5k Apple
    iMac... to me. And another reason; they freaking GOT ME... I've been

    Yeah.. I have to admit that I a member of the same club. My stuff are mostly apple too. It's the comfort and that everything work together seamlessly.

    Hello my name is Ennev and I'm an apple addict.

    p.s. and with parallel I run windows 10 and Linux all at the same time
    on the same screen. Comfy !

    I think Apple makes good products. But for me, they're just not what I'd choose right now.. I've been a long-time PC/DOS/Windows user, but from about 2006 to about 2012, I had several Apple products: An iPod Touch (which I actually used quite a bit for music & mobile games & such), a couple of Mac Minis, which I bought mainly to get more experience with OS X, and later, a 17" MacBook Pro. But the Apple stuff never really caught on with me. I had software I was used to using for Windows, and I also occasionally like PC gaming, and most PC games are made for Windows. I eventually sold all of my Apple stuff, even the iPod Touch once I got a smartphone (I have been an Android user since then).

    These days, I always feel like Apple doesn't make anything quite what I'd want. Apple doesn't make a 17" laptop anymore. And this is perhaps a silly point, but they also dropped the optical drives from their laptops long ago (though admittedly I don't use optical discs as much as I used to). Also, sometimes I like to play a blu-ray or DVD movie, but their Apple TV device lacks an optical drive. Just little things like that for me tend to keep me away from Apple.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ennev on Thursday, July 23, 2020 07:51:00
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Ennev to paulie420 on Wed Jul 22 2020 07:53 pm

    Hello my name is Ennev and I'm an apple addict.

    I'll take your experience as a warning, and avoid linking my music and movies to distribution platforms. Thanks!

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Arelor on Thursday, July 23, 2020 10:44:45
    I'll take your experience as a warning, and avoid linking my music and movies to distribution platforms. Thanks!

    Oh no no no, I have my music and movies backup on non drm format thanks.
    I'm still able to watch on all my devices trough my nas. I don't like to
    see the stuff I like dissapering because of censorship or a contract
    deal ending or changing with a particular platform.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:47:35
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Arelor to Ennev on Thu Jul 23 2020 07:51 am

    Hello my name is Ennev and I'm an apple addict.

    I'll take your experience as a warning, and avoid linking my music and movies to distribution platforms. Thanks!

    I've avoided buying movies & music from certain platforms for that reason. It's one reason I still like to buy movies & music on blu-ray or CD. Sometimes I'll buy downloadable in FLAC format, or maybe MP3 if no other format is available, as long as there's no DRM.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:50:20
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Ennev to Arelor on Thu Jul 23 2020 10:44 am

    Oh no no no, I have my music and movies backup on non drm format thanks. I'm still able to watch on all my devices trough my nas. I don't like to see the stuff I like dissapering because of censorship or a contract
    deal ending or changing with a particular platform.

    We never had to deal with that kind of thing before streaming platforms came around. It's one reason I often still like to buy my movies & music on blu-ray & CD. I can play it any time I want, and I can also rip it if I want and put it on my own media server.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Dreamer on Thursday, July 23, 2020 08:43:16
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dreamer to Dennisk on Wed Jul 22 2020 02:32 pm

    The was part of the fun I was having trying to find the best distro

    Puppy Linux is great for modest hardware. Easy to use, well thought
    out.

    Good to see others out there are aware of Puppy Linux. I used it for a few years, and almost went with a derivitive this time that has 64-bit support.


    My personal choice is Lubuntu. But that's just me. ;-)

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Ennev@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Thursday, July 23, 2020 13:07:59
    We never had to deal with that kind of thing before streaming platforms came around. It's one reason I often still like to buy my movies & music on blu-ray & CD. I can play it any time I want, and I can also rip it if I want and put it on my own media server.

    I think that eventually streaming will bite us in the ......

    I do have a streaming service, help me to learn about new stuff etc. But
    stuff I really care about I own. I do pay a 25$ a year or something for Apple(tm) iTunes Match, which enable me to cloud my music, make it conveniently available on my gadgets, but it still sit in backuped
    drives at home. let's enjoy the cloud while it last :-D

    But streaming, you're at the mercy of lot of factors

    It certainly reduced piracy but sales too.

    It's the one ring to rule them all.

    now I read they want to kill broadcast AM ( and FM eventually ) because
    you can stream radio nowadays !!! Well broadcast radio don't track you (
    o.k. o.k. radio using superheterodyne circuit can but you get me )

    Find it sad too when country closes theirs transmitters on shortwave,
    because we offer it in streaming! What about country who block theirs internet? Was a bit more costly and less effective to censor stations
    over airwaves.

    find it weird that technology wise we put all our eggs in one basket
    (TCP/IP). Everything is coming into only one pipe, convenient and
    fragile. So so so much easier to censor.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thursday, July 23, 2020 18:49:00
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Nightfox to Ennev on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:50 am

    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Ennev to Arelor on Thu Jul 23 2020 10:44 am

    Oh no no no, I have my music and movies backup on non drm format thanks I'm still able to watch on all my devices trough my nas. I don't like t see the stuff I like dissapering because of censorship or a contract deal ending or changing with a particular platform.

    We never had to deal with that kind of thing before streaming platforms came server.

    Nightfox

    Years ago i heard watchdog groups warning about streaming media and content which requires the application to "call home" occasionally to be played. imagine what it would be like in the future to pull out an media format and player that's no longer in use, and it won't work because the server it
    checks in with is no longer active? The same applies to video games. If
    your games will not run offline and a service such as steam no longer exists, theyre' pretty much locked on the old system they were installed on.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dreamer@VERT/BMTSOFT to HusTler on Thursday, July 23, 2020 14:27:00
    HusTler wrote to Dreamer <=-

    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dreamer to Dennisk on Wed Jul 22 2020 02:32 pm

    The was part of the fun I was having trying to find the best distro

    Puppy Linux is great for modest hardware. Easy to use, well thought
    out.

    Good to see others out there are aware of Puppy Linux. I used it for a few years, and almost went with a derivitive this time that has 64-bit support.


    My personal choice is Lubuntu. But that's just me. ;-)

    Same here. I stumbled across Zorin OS for this install, which is another light OS based on Ubuntu. The theme was OK, but by the time I finished with my usual customizations, I'm pretty sure I ended up with the same look and feel I get from Lubuntu. It's mostly the same packages, plus I think, a one-click Wine install.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Beaumont Software Dev - bbs.beaumont.software
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ennev on Thursday, July 23, 2020 20:38:45
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 01:07 pm

    now I read they want to kill broadcast AM ( and FM eventually ) because you can stream radio nowadays !!! Well broadcast radio don't track you ( o.k. o.k. radio using superheterodyne circuit can but you get me )

    Yeah, I still like having broadcast over-the-air radio..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Thursday, July 23, 2020 20:40:47
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 06:49 pm

    Years ago i heard watchdog groups warning about streaming media and content which requires the application to "call home" occasionally to be played. imagine what it would be like in the future to pull out an media format and player that's no longer in use, and it won't work because the server it checks in with is no longer active? The same applies to video games. If your games will not run offline and a service such as steam no longer exists, theyre' pretty much locked on the old system they were installed on.

    True. I don't know if all the games on Steam have to check online in order to run, but that would be bad if it worked that way.

    I have a Logitech Squeezebox, which is a stand-alone device that looks like a radio but streams online. I turned it on not too long ago and found that many of my favorited stations on there no longer work because apparently they changed their stream format or something. :/

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Ennev on Thursday, July 23, 2020 23:13:06
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Nightfox to Ennev on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:38 pm

    because you can stream radio nowadays !!! Well broadcast radio don't
    track you ( o.k. o.k. radio using superheterodyne circuit can but

    Superheterodyne circuitry has nothing to do with tracking, and has been the standard for decoding broadcasts since the 1920s.
    ---
    Underminer
    The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
    Fidonet: 1:342/17
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to HusTler on Saturday, July 25, 2020 04:21:18
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: HusTler to Dreamer on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:43 am

    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Dreamer to Dennisk on Wed Jul 22 2020 02:32 pm

    The was part of the fun I was having trying to find the best distro

    Puppy Linux is great for modest hardware. Easy to use, well thought
    out.

    Good to see others out there are aware of Puppy Linux. I used it for a years, and almost went with a derivitive this time that has 64-bit support.


    My personal choice is Lubuntu. But that's just me. ;-)

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23


    I think that depends on how you define "modest hardware".

    I have been deploying Tiny Core Linux at work for trash-bin hardware. It does not get much more barebones than that. The thing has the barely necessary components to have a graphical session without much I/O. Anything you add on top of that is your business.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ennev on Saturday, July 25, 2020 04:29:11
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Jul 23 2020 01:07 pm

    now I read they want to kill broadcast AM ( and FM eventually ) because
    you can stream radio nowadays !!! Well broadcast radio don't track you ( o.k. o.k. radio using superheterodyne circuit can but you get me )

    I don't know, at least in Spain, AM/FM is an extremely popular way of consuming news and music while driving and working. It works well in many areas where there are no solid Internet connections so I don't see it going away anytime soon. Besides, the government makes a big load of money selling radio station licensing.

    Also, they get to control who gets a radio station license and who does not, which is important for them XD

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Saturday, July 25, 2020 11:05:21
    Re: Re: LinuxFX - A Linux tha
    By: Arelor to Ennev on Sat Jul 25 2020 04:29 am

    I don't know, at least in Spain, AM/FM is an extremely popular way of consuming news and music while driving and working. It works well in many areas where there are no solid Internet connections so I don't see it going away anytime soon. Besides, the government makes a big load of money selling radio station licensing.

    I often listen to FM news radio in my car (and sometimes music on FM radio in my car). I think it's easier than fiddling with getting my phone connected and streaming my phone through my car stereo. Also when driving, there are sometimes spots of low cell signal and I'd rather it not cut out.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com