• Any Amateur Astronomers out there?

    From Chickenhead@VERT to All on Thursday, May 07, 2020 15:41:35
    So I decided to use the extra time I now have thanks to having to "work from home" thanks to the virus to clean up my old 11" SCT which has been gathering dust (and worse) for a good 10 years. The wife has an 8" Orion dobsonian that was in a bad need of a cleanup as well.

    Mine is a Celestron 11" CGE, a german equatorial go-to scope..I upgraded from my trusty 8" wedge-mount for astrophotography but I ended up drifting away from it all (probably thanks to meeting my wife). I've also got an "old" (hah) SBIG ST-2000XCM single-shot color camera. I had barely started using it when it failed and had to be sent back to California for repair...and I don't think I ever tested it out when I got it back.

    Well the time for that has come, as soon as the full moon goes away.

    Anyone else involved in the hobby? I'm quite enjoying being back into it again. Got some great views of M13 and the Ring Nebula with the wife's 8" the other night. Looking forward to pointing that SBIG camera at both.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Chickenhead on Thursday, May 07, 2020 16:24:10
    Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: Chickenhead to All on Thu May 07 2020 03:41 pm

    Anyone else involved in the hobby? I'm quite enjoying being back into it again. Got some great views of M13 and the Ring Nebula with the wife's 8" the other night. Looking forward to pointing that SBIG camera at both.

    I've got a no-frills 3" refractor with a couple of eyepieces that I have fun with. With a sky chart app for my phone it adds a whole new dimension to stargazing for me.

    The kids always get a kick out of looking at the planets.

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Chickenhead on Friday, May 08, 2020 02:49:00
    Chickenhead wrote to All <=-

    So I decided to use the extra time I now have thanks to having to "work from home" thanks to the virus to clean up my old 11" SCT which has
    been gathering dust (and worse) for a good 10 years. The wife has an
    8" Orion dobsonian that was in a bad need of a cleanup as well.

    Mine is a Celestron 11" CGE, a german equatorial go-to scope..I
    upgraded from my trusty 8" wedge-mount for astrophotography but I ended
    up drifting away from it all (probably thanks to meeting my wife).
    I've also got an "old" (hah) SBIG ST-2000XCM single-shot color camera.
    I had barely started using it when it failed and had to be sent back to California for repair...and I don't think I ever tested it out when I
    got it back.

    Well the time for that has come, as soon as the full moon goes away.

    Anyone else involved in the hobby? I'm quite enjoying being back into
    it again. Got some great views of M13 and the Ring Nebula with the
    wife's 8" the other night. Looking forward to pointing that SBIG
    camera at both.

    I always wanted to, and now that I'm in a comfortable income bracket, I still can't afford amateur astronomy due to my other big hobby - aviation. I won't be able to afford HAM, which has a strong pull.

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, May 08, 2020 02:50:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: Chickenhead to All on Thu May 07 2020 03:41 pm

    Anyone else involved in the hobby? I'm quite enjoying being back into it again. Got some great views of M13 and the Ring Nebula with the wife's 8" the other night. Looking forward to pointing that SBIG camera at both.

    I've got a no-frills 3" refractor with a couple of eyepieces that I
    have fun with. With a sky chart app for my phone it adds a whole new dimension to stargazing for me.

    The kids always get a kick out of looking at the planets.

    I can relate. My first time seeing Jupiter through a telescope, at 12, was a major event of my life.

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to calcmandan on Thursday, May 07, 2020 21:51:17
    Re: Any Amateur Astronomers o
    By: calcmandan to Chickenhead on Fri May 08 2020 02:49 am

    I always wanted to, and now that I'm in a comfortable income bracket, I still can't afford amateur astronomy due to my other big hobby - aviation. I won't be able to afford HAM, which has a strong pull.

    A long time ago, I thought about getting a pilot's license (for small single-engine or 2-engine prop planes), but it's very expensive. At the time (around 2005), I found the cost of training & licensing would be around $10,000 for such a pilot license.

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Friday, May 08, 2020 21:41:00
    On 05-07-20 15:41, Chickenhead wrote to All <=-

    Anyone else involved in the hobby? I'm quite enjoying being back into
    it again. Got some great views of M13 and the Ring Nebula with the
    wife's 8" the other night. Looking forward to pointing that SBIG
    camera at both.

    Cool, I have a 6" Newtonian, but haven't brought it out for stargazing for ages. Used to do a bit of astrophotography as well - planetary photos with a CCD astro camera.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Friday, May 08, 2020 21:42:00
    On 05-08-20 02:49, calcmandan wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    I always wanted to, and now that I'm in a comfortable income bracket, I still can't afford amateur astronomy due to my other big hobby -
    aviation. I won't be able to afford HAM, which has a strong pull.

    Yeah, aviation is rather expensive. Would love to learn to fly, but I can't see that happening. :/


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Friday, May 08, 2020 21:42:00
    On 05-08-20 02:50, calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I can relate. My first time seeing Jupiter through a telescope, at 12,
    was a major event of my life.

    Indeed, and taking photos, that caps it off. :)


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  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to Chickenhead on Friday, May 08, 2020 11:35:41
    On 07/05/2020 6:41 p.m., Chickenhead wrote:

    Anyone else involved in the hobby? I'm quite enjoying being back
    into it again. Got some great views of M13 and the Ring Nebula
    with the wife's 8" the other night. Looking forward to pointing
    that SBIG camera at both.

    Is it possible to see any of the equipment left on the moon?

    Someone dropped off a Bushnell Computerized Star Locator, w/NorthStar Model 78-7860.

    Is it worthwhile taking it out of the box?

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Friday, May 08, 2020 10:28:00
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to calcmandan on Fri May 08 2020 09:42 pm

    On 05-08-20 02:49, calcmandan wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    I always wanted to, and now that I'm in a comfortable income bracket, I still can't afford amateur astronomy due to my other big hobby - aviation. I won't be able to afford HAM, which has a strong pull.

    Yeah, aviation is rather expensive. Would love to learn to fly, but I can't see that happening. :/


    ... 100% of people who breathe, die.

    Inspections and maintenence can get pricey. A former co-worker bought a 1946 Piper Cub in pieces at an auction for $6000, but it took about $50k-$60k to make it air worthy. The canvas work had to be redone, and once assembled,
    the special UV resistant paint job cost at least $10k. outside the mechanic time, work had to be inspected during the build.

    Sounds pricey, but if he would've bought it ready to fly he could've spent twice as much.

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Friday, May 08, 2020 09:29:00
    Nightfox wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Any Amateur Astronomers o
    By: calcmandan to Chickenhead on Fri May 08 2020 02:49 am

    I always wanted to, and now that I'm in a comfortable income bracket, I still can't afford amateur astronomy due to my other big hobby - aviation. I won't be able to afford HAM, which has a strong pull.

    A long time ago, I thought about getting a pilot's license (for small single-engine or 2-engine prop planes), but it's very expensive. At
    the time (around 2005), I found the cost of training & licensing would
    be around $10,000 for such a pilot license.

    Yeah it's pricy but it's worth it.

    Daniel Lausevic

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Saturday, May 09, 2020 09:37:00
    On 05-08-20 10:28, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Inspections and maintenence can get pricey. A former co-worker bought
    a 1946 Piper Cub in pieces at an auction for $6000, but it took about $50k-$60k to make it air worthy. The canvas work had to be redone, and once assembled, the special UV resistant paint job cost at least $10k. outside the mechanic time, work had to be inspected during the build.

    Sounds pricey, but if he would've bought it ready to fly he could've
    spent twice as much.

    Yeah I can understand that. Seems most things involving aviation are expensive, because of the safety implications among other things. It's highly unlikely I'll get to fly a plane, not enough money or time these days.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Ogg on Saturday, May 09, 2020 11:35:00
    On 05-08-20 11:35, Ogg wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    Is it possible to see any of the equipment left on the moon?

    Not with a home telescope. Only photos of equipment left on the moon that I've seen are from an orbiting probe tens of km above the surface. You're basically trying to spot objects the size of a couple of SUVs parked side by side or slightly larger from 400,000 km away. Need a LOT of magnification to do that, and some pretty good optics (and probably an extremely stable atmosphere with turblence cancellation). :)

    Someone dropped off a Bushnell Computerized Star Locator, w/NorthStar Model 78-7860.

    Is it worthwhile taking it out of the box?

    Interesting, give it a try. :)


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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, May 09, 2020 06:34:00
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 05-08-20 02:49, calcmandan wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    I always wanted to, and now that I'm in a comfortable income bracket, I still can't afford amateur astronomy due to my other big hobby -
    aviation. I won't be able to afford HAM, which has a strong pull.

    Yeah, aviation is rather expensive. Would love to learn to fly, but I can't see that happening. :/

    I forgot who told me on mumble that ham is more expensive, then showed me an antenna to make his point.

    i would find myself divorced if i had 200ft antenna installed in the back yard.

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, May 09, 2020 06:35:00
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 05-08-20 02:50, calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I can relate. My first time seeing Jupiter through a telescope, at 12,
    was a major event of my life.

    Indeed, and taking photos, that caps it off. :)

    Ican only imagine. Just the cost of a high quality imager. do they still sell the ccd's? or do you just attach cameras now since they're all digital now?

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, May 09, 2020 06:38:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    On 05-07-20 15:41, Chickenhead wrote to All <=-

    Anyone else involved in the hobby? I'm quite enjoying being back into
    it again. Got some great views of M13 and the Ring Nebula with the
    wife's 8" the other night. Looking forward to pointing that SBIG
    camera at both.

    Cool, I have a 6" Newtonian, but haven't brought it out for stargazing
    for ages. Used to do a bit of astrophotography as well - planetary
    photos with a CCD astro camera.

    Share a link please

    Daniel Traechin
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Ogg on Saturday, May 09, 2020 06:41:00
    Ogg wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    Is it possible to see any of the equipment left on the moon?

    Not with ground based telescopes. But a low orbiting satellite at the moon took high res photos of the ground for a mapping mission for future missions and got high enough resolution imagery to get everything including all the footprints
    and tire tracks.

    So badass.

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, May 09, 2020 06:56:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Moondog <=-

    On 05-08-20 10:28, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Inspections and maintenence can get pricey. A former co-worker bought
    a 1946 Piper Cub in pieces at an auction for $6000, but it took about $50k-$60k to make it air worthy. The canvas work had to be redone, and once assembled, the special UV resistant paint job cost at least $10k. outside the mechanic time, work had to be inspected during the build.

    Sounds pricey, but if he would've bought it ready to fly he could've
    spent twice as much.

    Yeah I can understand that. Seems most things involving aviation are expensive, because of the safety implications among other things. It's highly unlikely I'll get to fly a plane, not enough money or time these days.

    It really comes down to perspective, in terms of cost. The plane I own was about the cost of a mid-range car, but performs higher than 95% of the planes in its price range. I consider it a piece of property. People will buy a vacation home, for instance, that requires a flight to visit. There's the taxes and associated utility bills, maintenance, etc.

    We all make our choices on how we want our leisure money spent. I wanted to fly not only for the freedom one achieves once pulling off the runway, but the
    many options available for a great day trip.

    I live in Sacramento, California. If I want to go to Fort Bragg, which is on the north coast, it's at least a five hour drive. It includes wavy one lane roads in mountains.. It's a three day trip. You have hotel stays for the two nights, and at least four meals if you don't pack your own food. Then the shopping. That's an expensive weekend. That area is not cheap by any stretch
    or the imagination.

    Next weekend I'll be flying there. From runway to runway it's 38 minutes. I can grab an uber or shuttle and be in town in less than five minutes. I can hit the beach, putz around town, grab a meal, do a bit of shopping, then be back
    in the air and home for dinner, or have dinner there and come home. Either way I'll be in my bed Saturday night. I may burn twenty gallons of fuel for the trip.
    That's about the amount my car would burn on a round trip and fuel cost
    is relatively the same. For that, it's far less expensive and, I will have all of Sunday to do whatever I want. And I'll be fully rested from that trip.

    If there's an anticipated soccer game being played in San Jose, it would be
    a four hour drive due to silicon valley traffic. I'd spend most the afternoon to
    get there. I'd have to park at the stadium and make my way to the stadium.. I'd get home past midnight. Seven to eight hours of driving, man that's plenty to be in a car in a day, to say nothing of the aggravation of driving in that area.

    Or I could takeoff an hour before the game, land and taxi/park 30 minutes later, Then walk across the street to watch the game. Yeah it's across the street
    from the general aviation ramp. Two crosswalks and five minutes tops. The airport won't charge me landing fees if I'm there less than four hours. Even
    if I were there for longer, it's ten dollars. If I bring friends with me,
    which I always do since I have plenty of soccer fan friends, then we split
    the fuel cost for the trip.

    I could stay and watch the whole game since I won't have to worrry about gridlock traffic on the departure. Many people begin leaving the games five minutes before extra time is called to get the gridlock started early.

    I can walk back across the street and be in the air and home in less than the time it takes for everyone to be out the parking lot, in some cases.

    My cousin lives up here near me. When my aunt fell and broke her hip, I was able to grab him and my mom and took them down where she lives, that evening. For him to get a last minute flight to Los Angeles would've been prohibitive in cost, then it would've been at least an hour uber drive to the hospital in Chino. My aunt got a surprise visit from us. The fuel cost to get there was nowhere near the cost of one tiket, to say nothing of three of us. We were able to spend three days there and came home when we decided to, instead of finding a cheap flight home. The drive from the airport to the hospital was less than ten minutes. Another cousin picked us up.

    So, for me the perspective comes down to convenience with respect to travel. Luckily for me, California weather in the valley is extremely stable and very conducive to flight.

    If I want to go to Mammoth Mountain to do some skiing, it may not be possible if the few roads leading to the Eastern Sierra are snowed in. If they're not, it's an easy eight hour drive. Airline flight? Forget it, they price it at luxury cost due to the location. I can be there in 25 minutes in my plane and land on a heated runway. I could be on the slopes within the time it takes to watch a movie at home.

    Last year I brought three bros with me, we flew to Napa airport for fuel, since they were cheapest at the time. Saw Elon Musk's jet when I taxiid. I bought fuel and waited while they fueld my plane. And we all got a free bottle of wine to take with us while waiting. Gave them a Wine Country tour flying low and slow
    up Napa Valley so they can enjoy the beauty of the rolling hills. They were amazed at how bad the traffic was as we flew over it. I hopped over the mountain
    range into the Sonoma side. After some flying, we landed in Mendocino for lunch for some really really good bbq. After we got back off the ground I took them east over to Clearlake and they got to see how beautiful it is over there, from the sky. Then, flew straight home. Probably logged 600 miles and gave them an experiene they'll never forget. We still talk about that day. Just when the wives
    were doing a baby shower, we did what we did. I think we had more fun, to be honest.

    So anyway, i'm done talking about it. I can go all day about what I love
    about aviation. I didn't even mention the pilot community. Wow, that's another long post. Probably comparable to the HAM community.

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Saturday, May 09, 2020 20:10:00
    On 05-09-20 06:34, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I forgot who told me on mumble that ham is more expensive, then showed
    me an antenna to make his point.

    It depends on how much you want to spend. You could spend $50 on a Baofeng and use the local repeater, or you can spend megabucks. :)

    i would find myself divorced if i had 200ft antenna installed in the
    back yard.

    Haha, my main challenges would actually be the city council and the landlord (and money LOL). :D


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Saturday, May 09, 2020 20:23:00
    On 05-09-20 06:35, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Ican only imagine. Just the cost of a high quality imager. do they
    still sell the ccd's? or do you just attach cameras now since they're
    all digital now?

    Both are used, but digital SLRs and astro CCDs (which are basically variants of a webcam) can serve different purposes, so in an ideal world, I'd use both. The SLR is best for capturing deep space objects like nebulae and distant galaxies. These objects are typically faint and the SLR can provide the long exposure times needed. They are often relatively large, so the colour CCD (which reduces resolution) isn't an impediment.

    Planets, OTOH are bright, and can be captured by video camera, like the astro CCDs. The astro CCDs are also monochrome, which means they have higher resolution, but to get colour images, you have to take 3 images, each through one of red, green and blue filters.

    The process of planetary photography involves taking multiple images (the CCD, being a video camera, is ideal), then combining them using software to filter out the atmospheric distortions.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Saturday, May 09, 2020 20:23:00
    On 05-09-20 06:38, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-


    Cool, I have a 6" Newtonian, but haven't brought it out for stargazing
    for ages. Used to do a bit of astrophotography as well - planetary
    photos with a CCD astro camera.

    Share a link please

    for...?


    ... Buy only cured hams, the sick ones are not good for you.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Saturday, May 09, 2020 20:47:00
    On 05-09-20 06:56, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    We all make our choices on how we want our leisure money spent. I
    wanted to fly not only for the freedom one achieves once pulling off
    the runway, but the many options available for a great day trip.

    Yeah I can understand that, though unlike ham radio, tere's a much higher minimum buy-in, no equivalent to the $50 Baofeng there. ;)

    I live in Sacramento, California. If I want to go to Fort Bragg, which
    is on the north coast, it's at least a five hour drive. It includes
    wavy one lane roads in mountains.. It's a three day trip. You have
    hotel stays for the two nights, and at least four meals if you don't
    pack your own food. Then the shopping. That's an expensive weekend.
    That area is not cheap by any stretch or the imagination.

    I'm spoilt by the fast, open roads here, I guess, though of course, a plane is going to be faster.

    Next weekend I'll be flying there. From runway to runway it's 38
    minutes. I can grab an uber or shuttle and be in town in less than five minutes. I can hit the beach, putz around town, grab a meal, do a bit

    Now that is neat, I can't argue with that, and there's your traffic to consider, something that is a non issue where I am, and even in Melbourne is nowhere near that bad. A 4 hour drive for me will literally get me 1/3 to halfway across the state - at least 350km in most directions, and if I head north, deep into NSW. :) It only takes me 15 minutes to get across town, and for the record, the local airport is 10 minutes away.

    So, for me the perspective comes down to convenience with respect to travel. Luckily for me, California weather in the valley is extremely stable and very conducive to flight.

    Weather here is similar, being in subtropical high pressure belt most of the time. Incidentally, gliding is pretty good around here, even in winter. A friend (now deceased :( ) took me up in a glider 2 years ago.

    If I want to go to Mammoth Mountain to do some skiing, it may not be possible if the few roads leading to the Eastern Sierra are snowed in.
    If they're not, it's an easy eight hour drive. Airline flight? Forget
    it, they price it at luxury cost due to the location. I can be there in
    25 minutes in my plane and land on a heated runway. I could be on the slopes within the time it takes to watch a movie at home.

    Nice!

    So anyway, i'm done talking about it. I can go all day about what I
    love about aviation. I didn't even mention the pilot community. Wow, that's another long post. Probably comparable to the HAM community.

    Yeah, you're not going to get any argument from me, I do have an interest in aviation.


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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to calcmandan on Saturday, May 09, 2020 08:10:47
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Vk3jed on Sat May 09 2020 06:34:00


    calcmandan> i would find myself divorced if i had 200ft antenna installed
    calcmandan> in the back yard.

    i think you misspelled "forty"... "back forty" ;)

    i wouldnt want a 200ft tower near any of my stuff unless it was at least 300ft away from buildings and vehicles to provide like a 100ft buffer zone...


    )\/(ark

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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to calcmandan on Saturday, May 09, 2020 08:21:47
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Vk3jed on Sat May 09 2020 06:35:00


    calcmandan> do they still sell the ccd's? or do you just attach cameras
    calcmandan> now since they're all digital now?

    a quick google for "telescope ccd" turns up a list for me ranging from $150US to $800US... the $150US being for a "ZWO ASI120MC Super Speed Color CMOS Telescope Camera"...


    Excellent for Planetary and Deep Space Imaging!
    Accessories Included for Easy and Quick Start.
    1.2 Megapixel CMOS Color Astronomy Camera.
    1280x960 Resolution.
    3.75 æm Pixels with No Fixed-pattern Noise.
    Fast USB 3.0 Transfer up to 60 fps at Maximum Resolution and 254 fps at Minimum Resolution.


    looks like you can mount it to the eyepiece on a telescope or directly to a mount for use as an all-sky camera...

    https://optcorp.com/products/zwo-asi120mc-s


    original search link:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=telescope+ccd


    )\/(ark

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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to calcmandan on Saturday, May 09, 2020 08:29:00
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Vk3jed on Sat May 09 2020 06:56:00


    calcmandan> I live in Sacramento, California. If I want to go to Fort
    calcmandan> Bragg, which is on the north coast, it's at least a five
    calcmandan> hour drive. It includes wavy one lane roads in mountains..
    calcmandan> It's a three day trip. You have hotel stays for [...]

    i had to read that several times... i'm in NC and only about an hour or so from Fort Bragg and Pope Air Force Base... then i realized there may be several "fort bragg" military installations... a little more digging showed me that your Fort Bragg, CA, is a town instead of a military installation :)


    )\/(ark

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  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to calcmandan on Saturday, May 09, 2020 04:33:03
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Vk3jed on Sat May 09 2020 06:56 am

    So anyway, i'm done talking about it. I can go all day about what I love about aviation. I didn't even mention the pilot community. Wow, that's another long post. Probably comparable to the HAM community.
    Daniel Traechin

    Everything you described there is awesome... I always thought about taking lessons; I was a skydiver for years and enjoyed the way we learned all aspects, and assumed it was even light compared to the attitude needed to get a pilots license.

    I'm 40 now, kinda figure its too late for me.. but man; your writing was awesome and I'm jealous... hell, where are you going this Saturday? Like my motorcycles, I'd want to go somewhere all the time... I heard right now that some airport in Death Valley is where they're parking all the 737s that aren't in use right now. Could be a once in a lifetime flight man....

    Thanks for sharing; I heard its about 10k to get a license, and 6 months to a year. Is this far off?

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, May 09, 2020 21:15:00
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 05-09-20 06:38, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-


    Cool, I have a 6" Newtonian, but haven't brought it out for stargazing
    for ages. Used to do a bit of astrophotography as well - planetary
    photos with a CCD astro camera.

    Share a link please

    for...?

    You said you have photos from before.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Rampage on Saturday, May 09, 2020 22:12:00
    Rampage wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Vk3jed on Sat May 09 2020 06:56:00


    calcmandan> I live in Sacramento, California. If I want to go to Fort
    calcmandan> Bragg, which is on the north coast, it's at least a five
    calcmandan> hour drive. It includes wavy one lane roads in mountains..
    calcmandan> It's a three day trip. You have hotel stays for [...]

    i had to read that several times... i'm in NC and only about an hour or
    so from Fort Bragg and Pope Air Force Base... then i realized there may
    be several "fort bragg" military installations... a little more digging showed me that your Fort Bragg, CA, is a town instead of a military installation :)

    It even confuses Californians who hear Ft Bragg in movies and such. It's a famous base. The town is one of my favorites on the North Coast.

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Paulie420 on Sunday, May 10, 2020 07:08:00
    Paulie420 wrote to calcmandan <=-

    So anyway, i'm done talking about it. I can go all day about what I love about aviation. I didn't even mention the pilot community. Wow, that's another long post. Probably comparable to the HAM community.

    Everything you described there is awesome... I always thought about
    taking lessons; I was a skydiver for years and enjoyed the way we
    learned all aspects, and assumed it was even light compared to the attitude needed to get a pilots license.

    The attitude and mindset come with training. Those who are seriously thinking about being a pilot won't make it far in training without adopting, for lack of a better term, a "pilot's lifestyle." It generally comes natural. I just now deleted about a two thousand word essay, I'll leave it at that.

    I'm 40 now, kinda figure its too late for me.. but man; your writing
    was awesome and I'm jealous... hell, where are you going this Saturday? Like my motorcycles, I'd want to go somewhere all the time... I heard right now that some airport in Death Valley is where they're parking
    all the 737s that aren't in use right now. Could be a once in a
    lifetime flight man....

    I got my license at forty-two. Last year a guy in his 90s got his license about an hour's drive from me, and the oldest to get a license was 102. You're in your prime dude, don't sell yourself short. Forty is the new thirty.

    Thanks for sharing; I heard its about 10k to get a license, and 6
    months to a year. Is this far off?

    It varies widely. Some 'gaurantee' a forty hour program in a week. But it'll cost you $18k upfront. I really don't know how on earth someone can start monday and end on friday ready for a checkflight. This includes the solo flights, the cross countries, the night flights, then the written test. I spent weeks preparing for the written and had stacks of flash cards like I was in college again.

    In the usual case, I don't go to flight schools because they'll drag on that training and milk your wallet as long as they can. Go to an independent flight instructor at your local general aviation airport who owns his own plane if available. Or, buy your own trainer aircraft and then hire him/her to get you up to speed in your own plane. Right now there's a shortage of instructrs due to demand, for some reason. When you get your license, sell the trainer for the same price you paid for it.

    I was paying through the nose at a flight school when magazine articles began to make me think that I was being raped. The owner of a brewery asked how my flight was one day and then introduced me to a flight instructor who happened to be sitting next to me. Needless to say, I was in his plane the next morning for a lesson. At the end it cost me about $9k. It could've been $8k but I went through a phase where I was losing confidence in my landings and, so, it dragged on for a bit longer. It also took about six months, but, he had just gotten hired at a regional airline, and so we had a month here or two weeks there without training due to his airline schedule. It could've been shorter because I was serious.

    But, if you're interested there's no need to commit to anything. Go to your local flight school or instructor and usually they'll provide a cheap first hour flight. It's called a 'discovery flight.' Everyone goes through it. They assess you during that hour and you get a taste of flight. You go over the basic manuevers one needs to master for the exam as well as a few takeoff and landings. When we took off on my discovery flight, the rush of takeoff got me yelling something like a whoot. Instructor was like 'yeah dude, I can see you being a pilot for sure.' Flying, at that point, was like crack.

    You already know because you used to jump so the concept isn't foreign to you. It's the discipline of flight you haven't been introduced to yet. So start with that. You might be out $100 for the discovery flight experience, but I guarantee it won't be one to forget. There are three flights I'll nver forget. My discovery, my first solo, and when my examiner shook my hands and said 'congratulations, you're a pilot. Follow me.' I followed him into his office where he revoked my student license and printed my temporary airman's card.

    Daniel Traechin


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Rampage on Sunday, May 10, 2020 17:22:00
    On 05-09-20 08:21, Rampage wrote to calcmandan <=-

    @VIA: VERT/SESTAR
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Vk3jed on Sat May 09 2020 06:35:00


    calcmandan> do they still sell the ccd's? or do you just attach
    cameras
    calcmandan> now since they're all digital now?

    a quick google for "telescope ccd" turns up a list for me ranging from $150US to $800US... the $150US being for a "ZWO ASI120MC Super Speed
    Color CMOS Telescope Camera"...

    Monochrome will give better resolution, because the entire CCD surface is active for all wavelengths (colour requires filtering or elements with sensitivity to different wavelengths at pizel level). The downside of monochrome is that to get a colour image, you need to take 3 exposures with different filters, then combine them electronically.

    So you're effectively trading off resolution against ease of use.


    looks like you can mount it to the eyepiece on a telescope or directly
    to a mount for use as an all-sky camera...

    The camera I have has no lens. It's mounted where the eyepiece goes and uses the primary mirror to focus the image. The size of the image is proportional to the focal length of the telescope. Long focal lengths (in the order of several metres) is best for planetary photography, because planets are relatively small objects.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Paulie420 on Sunday, May 10, 2020 17:26:00
    On 05-09-20 04:33, Paulie420 wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Everything you described there is awesome... I always thought about
    taking lessons; I was a skydiver for years and enjoyed the way we
    learned all aspects, and assumed it was even light compared to the attitude needed to get a pilots license.

    Yes, Daniel really does have a knack of getting one interested in aviation. :)

    I'm 40 now, kinda figure its too late for me.. but man; your writing
    was awesome and I'm jealous... hell, where are you going this Saturday? Like my motorcycles, I'd want to go somewhere all the time... I heard right now that some airport in Death Valley is where they're parking
    all the 737s that aren't in use right now. Could be a once in a
    lifetime flight man....

    Yeah when you're really into something, you definitely want to do it all the time. With me, while my air travel is merely as a passenger, it's what I do when I get to the other end that counts - my speed machine is my body, and my travel these days is mainly for track meets. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Sunday, May 10, 2020 18:34:00
    On 05-09-20 21:15, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    You said you have photos from before.

    I don't have any online, except maybe on Facebook.


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  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to calcmandan on Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:29:14
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Paulie420 on Sun May 10 2020 07:08 am

    Paulie420 wrote to calcmandan <=-

    The attitude and mindset come with training. Those who are seriously thinking about being a pilot won't make it far in training without adopting, for lack of a better term, a "pilot's lifestyle." It generally comes natural. I just now deleted about a two thousand word essay, I'll leave it at that.

    calcman, I understand you there too - about erasing a huge post and going with something else in the end.. Your words about attitude and mindset coming with training hit home for me; thats one of the reasons I was thinking 40 wasn't the time - that I'm set in my ways, both good and bad. Thanks for that, and... I guess I could see how being older might be... different than learning at 20. I wonder in my case if it is even better... I, also, always thought that you'd really have to click with the person training you... and was one reason why I never started. But just like my dropzone, you'll never find it if you don't start somewhere... hmmmm..

    I got my license at forty-two. Last year a guy in his 90s got his license about an hour's drive from me, and the oldest to get a license was 102. You're in your prime dude, don't sell yourself short. Forty is the new thirty.

    LOL - trust me, I know that... I feel the best in my life @ 40. And I appreciate the perspective that I can still shoot for flight school. Hmmm..

    It varies widely. Some 'gaurantee' a forty hour program in a week. But it'll cost you $18k upfront. I really don't know how on earth someone can start monday and end on friday ready for a checkflight. This includes the solo flights, the cross countries, the night flights, then the written test. I spent weeks preparing for the written and had stacks of flash cards like I was in college again.

    Hmmmm... so I don't mean to sound arrogant, but even 18k- isn't crazy IMO. Now I really wouldn't want to pay all up front... but maybe I need to start sniffing around and saving for a start. I would totally prefer 1k per month or something but... if I just get started saving while I locate a trainer I click with. Also, I think I might be leary of learning all of that data within a week. Or even a month... isn't rushed training, even if thorough, risky.... for the end pilot. I wouldn't want to do that, even if it were an option.

    In the usual case, I don't go to flight schools because they'll drag on that training and milk your wallet as long as they can. Go to an independent flight instructor at your local general aviation airport who owns his own plane if available. Or, buy your own trainer aircraft and then hire him/her to get you up to speed in your own plane. Right now there's a shortage of instructrs due to demand, for some reason. When you get your license, sell the trainer for the same price you paid for it.

    Thank you for that piece of advice; I know its stupid, but the farthest I ever got was going to beapilot.com and entering my details. Which only gets a response from local flight schools. I'm scared to jump in with a 50k (Or similar) purchase... but I hear you.

    I was paying through the nose at a flight school when magazine articles began to make me think that I was being raped. The owner of a brewery asked how my flight was one day and then introduced me to a flight instructor who happened to be sitting next to me. Needless to say, I was in his plane the next morning for a lesson. At the end it cost me about $9k. It could've been $8k but I went through a phase where I was losing confidence in my landings and, so, it dragged on for a bit longer. It also took about six months, but, he had just gotten hired at a regional airline, and so we had a month here or two weeks there without training due to his airline schedule. It could've been shorter because I was serious.

    I personally think 6 months would be right for me. Allow me to pay as I go.

    But, if you're interested there's no need to commit to anything. Go to your local flight school or instructor and usually they'll provide a cheap first hour flight. It's called a 'discovery flight.' Everyone goes through it. They assess you during that hour and you get a taste of flight. You go over the basic manuevers one needs to master for the exam as well as a few takeoff and landings. When we took off on my discovery flight, the rush of takeoff got me yelling something like a whoot. Instructor was like 'yeah dude, I can see you being a pilot for sure.' Flying, at that point, was like crack.

    Thats what happened after my first tandem jump. It turned into like... 10 tandem jumps, before my favorite guy to doso with was like dude, just get in here and train for solo already...

    You already know because you used to jump so the concept isn't foreign to you. It's the discipline of flight you haven't been introduced to yet. So start with that. You might be out $100 for the discovery flight experience, but I guarantee it won't be one to forget. There are three flights I'll nver forget. My discovery, my first solo, and when my examiner shook my hands and said 'congratulations, you're a pilot. Follow me.' I followed him into his office where he revoked my student license and printed my temporary airman's card.

    calcman, thanks for writing all of this. In my 40s, I wondered if I could 'get' the 'discipline of flight'.. thats what I worry about being able to find... if and when I start the journey, I'll be sure to post here. Jeeez Louise.... it would be rad to get to that end point. I'm in a position where aircraft ownership could be a possibility - maybe 40 IS the time to start.

    I have children in Roseville, CA... I used to live there; I remember somewhere out past Marysville there is a small airport with homes right off the landing strips. People literally taxi to garages next to their house... yea, all of this is certainly something I'd be interested in.

    I simply appreciate your post. Thanks a ton.

    Daniel Traechin
    Paul Hughes

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to calcmandan on Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:39:28
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Sat May 09 2020 10:12 pm

    i had to read that several times... i'm in NC and only about an hour
    or so from Fort Bragg and Pope Air Force Base... then i realized
    there may be several "fort bragg" military installations... a little

    It even confuses Californians who hear Ft Bragg in movies and such. It's a famous base. The town is one of my favorites on the North Coast.

    I know someone who is originally from Fort Bragg, California, so the one in California is the one I think when I hear Fort Bragg. I didn't know there were others with that name.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:42:16
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Rampage on Sun May 10 2020 05:22 pm

    Monochrome will give better resolution, because the entire CCD surface is active for all wavelengths (colour requires filtering or elements with sensitivity to different wavelengths at pizel level). The downside of monochrome is that to get a colour image, you need to take 3 exposures with different filters, then combine them electronically.

    So you're effectively trading off resolution against ease of use.

    That's what I've heard. And when NASA releases photos of the earth and other things in space, I think some people get confused about the technology and process when they say the photos are edited and thus are fake, etc..

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:47:54
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Paulie420 on Sun May 10 2020 05:26 pm

    Yes, Daniel really does have a knack of getting one interested in aviation. :)

    I already had a bit of an interest in aviation. :) Around 2005, I had thought about getting a pilot's license (before I realized how expensive it would be). But long before that, I had always enjoyed playing flight simulator games on my PC (such as Microsoft Flight Simulator), and genrally I enjoy flying. However, lately when I fly somewhere on a commercial airline, I've become more nervous during dake-offs and landings in recent years. I'm not sure why it is, but lately during take-offs and landings (where there tends to be more turbulence), I've had more anxiety that something might go seriously wrong. I don't know why I feel that way lately, because I've been on many flights in my life, and I know pilots fly commercial jets all the time.

    This past November, I bought a copy of X-Plane 11 for my PC. I think it's a great flight simulator. I just wish the 3rd-party add-ons (custom aircrafts & scenery) didn't cost so much. Also, recently I heard that Microsoft is coming out with a new Flight Simulator 2020, which looks to have some great graphics, and I've heard it will use real-world map data, so the whole world's scenery will be available. That will require an internet connection though, in order to get data from Microsoft's Bing Maps servers.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 08:50:00
    On 05-10-20 12:42, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    That's what I've heard. And when NASA releases photos of the earth and other things in space, I think some people get confused about the technology and process when they say the photos are edited and thus are fake, etc..

    NASA does all sorts of things with their images, depending on the scientific needs. They can render them in true colours, but they often use false colours to highlight features of interest, for example. And NASA's true colour renderings are often done using muoltple exposures and filters, similar to what I meneioned last time around.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 08:56:00
    On 05-10-20 12:47, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I already had a bit of an interest in aviation. :) Around 2005, I had thought about getting a pilot's license (before I realized how

    I'd love to try flying, I just don't have the money. I have a good understanding of the basic principles like aerodynamics and meteorology, and other background aspects. Obviously, I need to learn the hands on aspects and make sure everything else is up to the required standards. :)

    expensive it would be). But long before that, I had always enjoyed playing flight simulator games on my PC (such as Microsoft Flight

    Yes, I had some goes on flight sims and found the process enjoyable. Most of the time, my issue with game controls and lack of feel, etc, weren't a problem while flying the sim, because it generally wasn't fast paced action - I had time to work with the computer.

    Simulator), and genrally I enjoy flying. However, lately when I fly somewhere on a commercial airline, I've become more nervous during dake-offs and landings in recent years. I'm not sure why it is, but lately during take-offs and landings (where there tends to be more turbulence), I've had more anxiety that something might go seriously wrong. I don't know why I feel that way lately, because I've been on
    many flights in my life, and I know pilots fly commercial jets all the time.

    That's interesing. I still love flying, especially the take off and landings, probably because I'm a vestibular sensory seeker, and those phases of flight are the most stimulating to that sense. And yes, I do love roller coasters and wild rides at musement parks too. :)

    This past November, I bought a copy of X-Plane 11 for my PC. I think
    it's a great flight simulator. I just wish the 3rd-party add-ons
    (custom aircrafts & scenery) didn't cost so much. Also, recently I
    heard that Microsoft is coming out with a new Flight Simulator 2020,
    which looks to have some great graphics, and I've heard it will use real-world map data, so the whole world's scenery will be available.
    That will require an internet connection though, in order to get data
    from Microsoft's Bing Maps servers.

    Hmm, might have to look into those. I don't get a lot of time for that sort of activity, but I think I could go a decent flight sim. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Paulie420 on Monday, May 11, 2020 09:36:00
    On 05-10-20 10:29, Paulie420 wrote to calcmandan <=-

    calcman, I understand you there too - about erasing a huge post and
    going with something else in the end.. Your words about attitude and

    Been there, done that. :)

    mindset coming with training hit home for me; thats one of the reasons
    I was thinking 40 wasn't the time - that I'm set in my ways, both good
    and bad. Thanks for that, and... I guess I could see how being older
    might be... different than learning at 20. I wonder in my case if it is even better... I, also, always thought that you'd really have to click with the person training you... and was one reason why I never started. But just like my dropzone, you'll never find it if you don't start somewhere... hmmmm..

    It's definitely not all bad. I found as I got into my 40s, and now 50s, I was able to be more methodical, and I could also bring more insight to my learning, which can help the process. I haven't studied for a pilots licence, but instead, I've turned my attention to physical performance, which requires a mindset and discipline of its own that is paying off big time. The saying "Life begins at 40" can be true if you let it (and put in the work to achieve whatever goals you set). :)

    LOL - trust me, I know that... I feel the best in my life @ 40. And I appreciate the perspective that I can still shoot for flight school. Hmmm..

    Haha 50 is the new 30 for me. :D

    Thats what happened after my first tandem jump. It turned into like...
    10 tandem jumps, before my favorite guy to doso with was like dude,
    just get in here and train for solo already...

    Cool. I haven't tried skydiving either, but I suspect there's a part of me that would get hooked on it. :)

    calcman, thanks for writing all of this. In my 40s, I wondered if I
    could 'get' the 'discipline of flight'.. thats what I worry about being able to find... if and when I start the journey, I'll be sure to post here. Jeeez Louise.... it would be rad to get to that end point. I'm in
    a position where aircraft ownership could be a possibility - maybe 40
    IS the time to start.

    40 is an age where you really can develop discipline and focus on activities requiring discipline, so it might be the right time to start. You're also going to be in a better position to get the "seriousness" of it all.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 10, 2020 17:20:57
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon May 11 2020 08:56 am

    Simulator), and genrally I enjoy flying. However, lately when I fly
    somewhere on a commercial airline, I've become more nervous during
    dake-offs and landings in recent years. I'm not sure why it is, but

    That's interesing. I still love flying, especially the take off and landings, probably because I'm a vestibular sensory seeker, and those phases of flight are the most stimulating to that sense. And yes, I do love roller coasters and wild rides at musement parks too. :)

    Thinking about uneven weight distributions on rides & such makes me nervous too.. It's mostly on spinning rides like chair spinners (and other rides that spin multiple people around), tilt-a-whirl, Scrambler, and things like that which spin people around where the weight is probably not totally evenly distributed (especially on things like a tilt-a-whirl where the weight is all on one side).

    One time I was also flying on a 2-propellar passenger plane that held about 50 passengers, and it was at low capacity (maybe only 20 people on board). Many of the passengers gathered toward the back of the plane, and the captain asked us to spread out in the cabin to distribute our weight more evenly.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 10, 2020 21:22:56
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Paulie420 on Mon May 11 2020 09:36 am

    calcman, thanks for writing all of this. In my 40s, I wondered if I
    could 'get' the 'discipline of flight'.. thats what I worry about
    being able to find... if and when I start the journey, I'll be sure
    to post here. Jeeez Louise.... it would be rad to get to that end
    point. I'm in a position where aircraft ownership could be a
    possibility - maybe 40 IS the time to start.

    40 is an age where you really can develop discipline and focus on activities requiring discipline, so it might be the right time to start. You're also going to be in a better position to get the "seriousness" of it all.

    I started looking into what it takes to take pilot lessons when I was 25. I think I would have had the discipline back then (and if you really want to do something, you're usually motivated to do it). I just turned 40 a couple months ago, and I imagine I probably could still do it if I had the money (and also the time).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 10, 2020 23:29:20
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon May 11 2020 08:50 am

    On 05-10-20 12:42, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    That's what I've heard. And when NASA releases photos of the earth and other things in space, I think some people get confused about the technology and process when they say the photos are edited and thus are fake, etc..

    NASA does all sorts of things with their images, depending on the scientific needs. They can render them in true colours, but they often use false colou to highlight features of interest, for example. And NASA's true colour renderings are often done using muoltple exposures and filters, similar to w I meneioned last time around.




    yes, their 'pictures' are fake as hell.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sunday, May 10, 2020 23:12:13
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 2020 11:29 pm

    NASA does all sorts of things with their images, depending on the
    scientific needs. They can render them in true colours, but they
    often use false colou to highlight features of interest, for example.
    And NASA's true colour renderings are often done using muoltple
    exposures and filters, similar to w I meneioned last time around.

    yes, their 'pictures' are fake as hell.

    I don't think what they do invalidates their photos. They probably need the higher resolution from the black & white sensors.
    "Fake" - You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means (in this context).

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 06:38:00
    Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Rampage on Sun May 10 2020 05:22 pm

    Monochrome will give better resolution, because the entire CCD surface is active for all wavelengths (colour requires filtering or elements with sensitivity to different wavelengths at pizel level). The downside of monochrome is that to get a colour image, you need to take 3 exposures with different filters, then combine them electronically.

    So you're effectively trading off resolution against ease of use.

    That's what I've heard. And when NASA releases photos of the earth and other things in space, I think some people get confused about the technology and process when they say the photos are edited and thus are fake, etc..

    I don't really think they go that far on the 'rationale.'

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Paulie420 on Monday, May 11, 2020 08:12:00
    Paulie420 wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Pa> calcman, I understand you there too - about erasing a huge post and
    going with something else in the end.. Your words about attitude and mindset coming with training hit home for me; thats one of the reasons
    I was thinking 40 wasn't the time - that I'm set in my ways, both good
    and bad. Thanks for that, and... I guess I could see how being older
    might be... different than learning at 20. I wonder in my case if it is even better... I, also, always thought that you'd really have to click with the person training you... and was one reason why I never started. But just like my dropzone, you'll never find it if you don't start somewhere... hmmmm..

    LOL - trust me, I know that... I feel the best in my life @ 40. And I appreciate the perspective that I can still shoot for flight school. Hmmm..

    Of course you can.

    Hmmmm... so I don't mean to sound arrogant, but even 18k- isn't crazy
    IMO. Now I really wouldn't want to pay all up front... but maybe I need
    to start sniffing around and saving for a start. I would totally prefer
    1k per month or something but... if I just get started saving while I locate a trainer I click with. Also, I think I might be leary of
    learning all of that data within a week. Or even a month... isn't
    rushed training, even if thorough, risky.... for the end pilot. I
    wouldn't want to do that, even if it were an option.

    I paid by the lesson. If it was two hours of flight and an hour of ground, then there was the ground rate, his flight instruction, and then the plane. My budget dictated how many hours I could do a month. I gave myself a four month deadline that stretched due to his airline schedule and getting unrusty from breaks.

    Thank you for that piece of advice; I know its stupid, but the farthest
    I ever got was going to beapilot.com and entering my details. Which
    only gets a response from local flight schools. I'm scared to jump in
    with a 50k (Or similar) purchase... but I hear you.

    Call your local airport's operations person and inquire. Or visit their website and find their CFI listing. I'd stay away from referral services who're sending you to a school that paid for the referral. Hell, go to the airport and ask around. It's a tight community. You'd be surprised how many pilots are licensed instructors and a chance meeting with one at the airport could initiate your training.

    I personally think 6 months would be right for me. Allow me to pay as I go.

    Again, you really wouldn't know until you start and get a handle of all the requirements. Stay away from 'pilot kits' that they'll try to sell. It's usually a box full of books, a logbook, flight calculators, etc. Usually in the range of $400 for the kit. The books are all printed versions of free FAA PDF guides. You can print them yourself or read them off a tablet. The flight computers are easy to get online, as well other stuff like a kneeboard. All-in-all I could get those items for about $30 with some searching on various websites including amazon.

    The flight safety institute has gobs of training vids on youtube. That site is an invaluable tool.

    Thats what happened after my first tandem jump. It turned into like...
    10 tandem jumps, before my favorite guy to doso with was like dude,
    just get in here and train for solo already...

    You get it.

    calcman, thanks for writing all of this. In my 40s, I wondered if I
    could 'get' the 'discipline of flight'.. thats what I worry about being able to find... if and when I start the journey, I'll be sure to post here. Jeeez Louise.... it would be rad to get to that end point. I'm in
    a position where aircraft ownership could be a possibility - maybe 40
    IS the time to start.

    You can get it if you want it. No one goes into flying with a death wish. It's a serious discipline that can lead to a ilfetime of rewarding memories.

    I have children in Roseville, CA... I used to live there; I remember somewhere out past Marysville there is a small airport with homes right off the landing strips. People literally taxi to garages next to their house... yea, all of this is certainly something I'd be interested in.

    I'm twenty minutes from Roseville.

    Speaking of airparks, my instructor's plane is in the driveway of a guy's house in Cameron Air Park. I parked my car on the taxiway/street and would taxi to the gate to get me into the airfield. So yeah most of my training was out of an airpark.

    When I posted my few vids during training I'd usually hear 'is taht a garage door I'm seeing?' 'Is that a car I'm seeing?' Yup.

    I simply appreciate your post. Thanks a ton.

    No problem. It's not hard for me to get lost on a post about aviation and that's especially true when people show interest.

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 16:25:00
    On 05-10-20 17:20, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Thinking about uneven weight distributions on rides & such makes me nervous too.. It's mostly on spinning rides like chair spinners (and other rides that spin multiple people around), tilt-a-whirl, Scrambler,

    Yeah weight distribution is always an issue too.

    One time I was also flying on a 2-propellar passenger plane that held about 50 passengers, and it was at low capacity (maybe only 20 people
    on board). Many of the passengers gathered toward the back of the
    plane, and the captain asked us to spread out in the cabin to
    distribute our weight more evenly.

    Yeah that makes sense. I haven't been on a plane that size, they've been smaller (2-6 seat) or larger (100+). But I know there's a lot of work done to make sure the weight distribution is suitable for the aircraft.


    ... I was in Chicago once. Blew me away.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 16:29:00
    On 05-10-20 21:22, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I started looking into what it takes to take pilot lessons when I was
    25. I think I would have had the discipline back then (and if you
    really want to do something, you're usually motivated to do it). I
    just turned 40 a couple months ago, and I imagine I probably could
    still do it if I had the money (and also the time).

    If I had the time and money, I know I could study and train to get my pilots licence. The last 5 years, in particular, has shown what discipline I can muster, when I focus on a goal. In that case, sporting goals, but the principle is the same.

    Over the past 10 years, I've also dealt with life and death situations when I rejoined the fire brigade. Just like aviation, you have to do everything properly and by the book, otherwise bad things happen.


    ... Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 22:17:17
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 2020 12:47 pm

    I already had a bit of an interest in aviation. :) Around 2005, I had thought about getting a pilot's license (before I realized how expensive it would be). But long before that, I had always enjoyed playing flight

    genrally I enjoy flying. However, lately when I fly somewhere on a commercial airline, I've become more nervous during dake-offs and landings in recent years. I'm not sure why it is, but lately during take-offs and

    So early in my 40's I did a lot of flying - I have 80 or so hrs, but I havent flown for about 10 years :( (Found a wife and had kids.) I am keen to get back into it when time permits.

    I travel a lot for work - internationally and I too was a bit jittery with travel early in my working life - especially when there was turbulence. This nothing more freaky than being at 40,000 feet, seeing mountains and feeling the wind pushing you sideways, over China... (Or hiting clear air turbulance in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on the way home to AU.)

    But, when I started flying, only ever going to 10,000 feet - its actually helped me a lot with flying as a passenger. I am no longer gittery and I've been in quite a few rough flights. Even not long after going solo, I've had a couple of very bumpy rides - and being in control of the flight keeps you busy so you dont have time to worry :)

    One thing experience helps you with, is you recognise and get used to the bumps - just like you used to freak out whenever you felt anything uneven in the road when you first started driving. Now, you probably dont notice it.

    This past November, I bought a copy of X-Plane 11 for my PC. I think it's

    Flightsim is great too - but it lacks that "6th sense" you get when you are out there :)
    ...ëîå*

    ... The best audience is intelligent, well-educated and a little drunk.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 08:21:30
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 2020 12:47 pm

    This past November, I bought a copy of X-Plane 11 for my PC. I think it's a great flight simulator. I just wish the 3rd-party add-ons (custom aircrafts & scenery) didn't cost so much. Also, recently I heard that Microsoft is coming out with a new Flight Simulator 2020, which looks to have some great graphics, and I've heard it will use real-world map data, so the whole world's scenery will be available. That will require an internet connection though, in order to get data from Microsoft's Bing Maps servers.
    Nightfox

    I just saw a Youtube video about the new Microsoft one, and yea that looks flipping rad man. I never liked them using a standard keyboard and mouse... like, they would be so neat with the cockpit controls... but yea, I would still checkout MSFS2020 - and, lol, we're BBS guys... I thought we'd still be downloading this things not paying...... nevermind.

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 08:26:04
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 2020 09:22 pm

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Paulie420 on Mon May 11 2020 09:36 am

    calcman, thanks for writing all of this. In my 40s, I wondered if I
    could 'get' the 'discipline of flight'.. thats what I worry about
    being able to find... if and when I start the journey, I'll be sure
    to post here. Jeeez Louise.... it would be rad to get to that end
    point. I'm in a position where aircraft ownership could be a
    possibility - maybe 40 IS the time to start.

    40 is an age where you really can develop discipline and focus on
    activities requiring discipline, so it might be the right time to
    start. You're also going to be in a better position to get the
    "seriousness" of it all.

    I started looking into what it takes to take pilot lessons when I was 25. I think I would have had the discipline back then (and if you really want to do something, you're usually motivated to do it). I just turned 40 a couple months ago, and I imagine I probably could still do it if I had the money (and also the time).

    Nightfox

    Gosh, all this talk really does make me want to look for a flight instructer. That was the big hangup when I looked into it (consisting of one trip to an airport with training.. not a lot.)... I didn't think I clicked with the much older instructer and knew I'd be with him for a long time.

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to calcmandan on Monday, May 11, 2020 08:34:34
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Paulie420 on Mon May 11 2020 08:12 am

    Call your local airport's operations person and inquire. Or visit their website and find their CFI listing. I'd stay away from referral services who're sending you to a school that paid for the referral. Hell, go to the airport and ask around. It's a tight community. You'd be surprised how many pilots are licensed instructors and a chance meeting with one at the airport could initiate your training.

    Currently I'm living in Portland, OR... and like I said I've always been interested in this so I already know that theres Stark's Twin Oaks Airpark out here... that has instructors and - I don't know if its a place you describe as pricey - but they are there... at least to goto and poke around.

    Again, you really wouldn't know until you start and get a handle of all the requirements. Stay away from 'pilot kits' that they'll try to sell. It's usually a box full of books, a logbook, flight calculators, etc. Usually in the range of $400 for the kit. The books are all printed versions of free FAA PDF guides. You can print them yourself or read them off a tablet. The flight computers are easy to get online, as well other stuff like a kneeboard. All-in-all I could get those items for about $30 with some searching on various websites including amazon.

    Thanks for that bit of info - you must know me, cause yea... I usually take these sorts of things just to show THEM that I'm really interested. However just stating and doing what you described here would most likely do the same thing. :P Thanks.

    The flight safety institute has gobs of training vids on youtube. That site is an invaluable tool.

    Freaking Youtube these days... I literally learned how to ski from YT. :P I paid $300 for a lesson the day of and... I could have just skipped it; start with a hot cocoa in the lobby & your iPhone. $5 < $300

    You can get it if you want it. No one goes into flying with a death wish. It's a serious discipline that can lead to a ilfetime of rewarding memories.

    Per our discussion, I looked up rental costs. $89 - $280 wet... I can flipping do this. :P Damnit.

    I'm twenty minutes from Roseville.

    I still go back a couple times a year to visit my kids... and who knows, its a city on my radar to live in again sometime. As my kids become of age, I think I'll wanna be there again.

    No problem. It's not hard for me to get lost on a post about aviation and that's especially true when people show interest.

    Well I'm appreciative. I daydream about being able to fly... so yea. Right on. If I do take the plunge, or have any questions when I inquire about services, I'll be sure to ask away on Dove-Net... woot woot.

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to alterego on Monday, May 11, 2020 08:37:22
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: alterego to Nightfox on Mon May 11 2020 10:17 pm

    So early in my 40's I did a lot of flying - I have 80 or so hrs, but I havent flown for about 10 years :( (Found a wife and had kids.) I am keen to get back into it when time permits.

    So you have a pilots license, yea? If you take time off, do you need to retrain or... just take your own time to get reaquinted with the whole ordeal?

    Thats one thing I'd be interested in hearing... like with my skydiving, I haven't done so since I lived in California, and if I was gonna jump again I'd.... well, I wouldn't go signup for lessons again but I'd call one of my jumper friends and ask them to go over things with me and accompany me on a jump up...

    With aviation, if you take 10 years off, is there a process to get back in the air?

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Paulie420 on Monday, May 11, 2020 14:46:19
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Paulie420 to Nightfox on Mon May 11 2020 08:21 am

    it's a great flight simulator. I just wish the 3rd-party add-ons
    (custom aircrafts & scenery) didn't cost so much. Also, recently I
    heard that Microsoft is coming out with a new Flight Simulator 2020,

    I just saw a Youtube video about the new Microsoft one, and yea that looks flipping rad man. I never liked them using a standard keyboard and mouse... like, they would be so neat with the cockpit controls... but yea,

    I've often played with a PC joystick, and sometimes keyboard controls. I've never had a full cockpit control setup for my PC though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Paulie420 on Monday, May 11, 2020 14:47:58
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Paulie420 to calcmandan on Mon May 11 2020 08:34 am

    Currently I'm living in Portland, OR...

    You're not far from me. :P

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to Paulie420 on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 07:52:56
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Paulie420 to alterego on Mon May 11 2020 08:37 am

    So you have a pilots license, yea? If you take time off, do you need to retrain or... just take your own time to get reaquinted with the whole ordeal?

    I dont believe I need to do the whole thing again, but I do need to be "checked".

    I'm not fully licensed, I am restricted to 15 hrs solo, rechecked every 90 days. Plus to take passengers, I need to have done 3 take offs and landings in the previous 30 days.

    So when I get back into it, I'll do a couple of sessions with an instructor (and then when they are happy with me, they'll approve me for solo opertaions again within the constraints of my license).

    I hope when I get back into it, I can change to full PPL - which means the 15hrs/90 days gets lifted, and changed to every 2 years. But the passenger rule still applies. (I've done all the theory work, just need to do the flight test.)
    ...ëîå*

    ... Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to alterego on Monday, May 11, 2020 23:23:00
    alterego wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 2020 12:47 pm

    I already had a bit of an interest in aviation. :) Around 2005, I had thought about getting a pilot's license (before I realized how expensive it would be). But long before that, I had always enjoyed playing flight

    genrally I enjoy flying. However, lately when I fly somewhere on a commercial airline, I've become more nervous during dake-offs and landings in recent years. I'm not sure why it is, but lately during take-offs and

    So early in my 40's I did a lot of flying - I have 80 or so hrs, but I havent flown for about 10 years :( (Found a wife and had kids.) I am
    keen to get back into it when time permits.

    What coutnry are you in?

    I travel a lot for work - internationally and I too was a bit jittery
    with travel early in my working life - especially when there was turbulence. This nothing more freaky than being at 40,000 feet, seeing mountains and feeling the wind pushing you sideways, over China... (Or hiting clear air turbulance in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on the
    way home to AU.)

    But, when I started flying, only ever going to 10,000 feet - its
    actually helped me a lot with flying as a passenger. I am no longer gittery and I've been in quite a few rough flights. Even not long after going solo, I've had a couple of very bumpy rides - and being in
    control of the flight keeps you busy so you dont have time to worry :)

    Bumpy rides never bugged me, and especially so when I learned what causes those bumps. Actually, whenever we got bumps, my stomach would drop and I'd make a noise and my CFI would say 'it's good for you' then wink at me. WHen I later got my high performance and complex ratings, my other CFI would make a noise and i'd say 'it's good for you.'

    One thing experience helps you with, is you recognise and get used to
    the bumps - just like you used to freak out whenever you felt anything uneven in the road when you first started driving. Now, you probably
    dont notice it.

    This past November, I bought a copy of X-Plane 11 for my PC. I think it's

    Flightsim is great too - but it lacks that "6th sense" you get when you are out there :) ...¢E¢*

    Sims are extremely limiting to me. It's not really possible for me to do actual pattern work due to the fact that I don't have wraparound screens to eyeball the runway and such. I've seen people use VR, but a keyboard is no substitute with an actual throttle or yoke.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to calcmandan on Monday, May 11, 2020 17:13:19
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Mon May 11 2020 11:23 pm

    Sims are extremely limiting to me. It's not really possible for me to do actual pattern work due to the fact that I don't have wraparound screens to eyeball the runway and such. I've seen people use VR, but a keyboard is no substitute with an actual throttle or yoke.

    I've seen fairly elaborate flight controls connected to a PC, so you aren't limited to just a keyboard. I've seen people share photos of their setups, like this one:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/f2/c3/42f2c36844fc14828b10323289ec3037.jpg

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to calcmandan on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 10:27:35
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Mon May 11 2020 11:23 pm

    What coutnry are you in?

    Australia.

    Flightsim is great too - but it lacks that "6th sense" you get when
    you are out there :)

    Sims are extremely limiting to me. It's not really possible for me to do actual pattern work due to the fact that I don't have wraparound screens to eyeball the runway and such. I've seen people use VR, but a keyboard is no substitute with an actual throttle or yoke.

    That's the 6th sense I'm talking about.

    You also dont feel youself falling or floating when you approach the runaway - where you need to play with the RPMs a wee bit.

    I learnt at Moorabbin (YMML) and on approach to 17L there is a small lake on a golf course on short final. Sometimes on hot days you would feel going over the lake - a small dip, which if you werent ready for would mess up your approach ;)
    ...ëîå*

    ... I'm going to make a prediction - it could go either way.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Paulie420 on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 02:18:00
    Paulie420 wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 2020 09:22 pm

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Paulie420 on Mon May 11 2020 09:36 am

    calcman, thanks for writing all of this. In my 40s, I wondered if I
    could 'get' the 'discipline of flight'.. thats what I worry about
    being able to find... if and when I start the journey, I'll be sure
    to post here. Jeeez Louise.... it would be rad to get to that end
    point. I'm in a position where aircraft ownership could be a
    possibility - maybe 40 IS the time to start.

    40 is an age where you really can develop discipline and focus on
    activities requiring discipline, so it might be the right time to
    start. You're also going to be in a better position to get the
    "seriousness" of it all.

    I started looking into what it takes to take pilot lessons when I was 25. I think I would have had the discipline back then (and if you really want to do something, you're usually motivated to do it). I just turned 40 a couple months ago, and I imagine I probably could still do it if I had the money (and also the time).

    Nightfox

    Gosh, all this talk really does make me want to look for a flight instructer. That was the big hangup when I looked into it (consisting
    of one trip to an airport with training.. not a lot.)... I didn't think
    I clicked with the much older instructer and knew I'd be with him for a long time.

    You'll never know until you jump into that cockpit with him. If you don't click with him, your hours still count. You don't start all over because you have a new instructor. I went through three instructors with my first school and my final instructor to finish my training. All those hours added up to meet my minimum requirements.

    The discipline I mentioned in a previous post, and the seriousness you have to have, are necessary not just for being a good safe pilot, but it's also there for you to obtain the knowledge during the four hour exam with the FAA examiner. He's watching your body language, bmobarding you with all matter of questions, studying your logbook, trying to trick you. He'll be asking you regulation questions while conducting a stall recovery, for instance. These peple are entrusted by the FAA to approve your license. The guy who examined me has an INTENSE history. From military fighter pilot, to combat helo pilot, to airline/cargo pilot, test pilot. He was a veritable dictionary of knowledge and he deemed me safe as a pilot. My CFI never would have endorsed my logbook for a checkride if he wasn't sure I was ready. He has to maintain an 80% passing rate of students to maintain his license to teach. This stuff is serious.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Paulie420 on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 02:21:00
    Paulie420 wrote to alterego <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: alterego to Nightfox on Mon May 11 2020 10:17 pm

    So early in my 40's I did a lot of flying - I have 80 or so hrs, but I havent flown for about 10 years :( (Found a wife and had kids.) I am keen to get back into it when time permits.

    So you have a pilots license, yea? If you take time off, do you need to retrain or... just take your own time to get reaquinted with the whole ordeal?

    When a pilot takes time off, provided he or she is still current they can fly. I don't know any pilots who'll do that without a copilot or an instructor for some refresher training. We have a bi-annual flight review that keeps us current. To carry passengers, you need to have had conducted three take-off and landings in the previous ninety days. If you plan on flying someone, do three takeoff and landings before they hop onboard.

    Thats one thing I'd be interested in hearing... like with my skydiving,
    I haven't done so since I lived in California, and if I was gonna jump again I'd.... well, I wouldn't go signup for lessons again but I'd call one of my jumper friends and ask them to go over things with me and accompany me on a jump up...

    Same thing. We also do something called 'chair flying.' You sit in a chair and mime your procedures as if you're in the cockpit.

    With aviation, if you take 10 years off, is there a process to get back
    in the air?

    Do your bi-annual flight review with an instructor and get your medical certificate and you're legal. The license is for life.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to alterego on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 02:23:00
    alterego wrote to Paulie420 <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Paulie420 to alterego on Mon May 11 2020 08:37 am

    So you have a pilots license, yea? If you take time off, do you need to retrain or... just take your own time to get reaquinted with the whole ordeal?

    I dont believe I need to do the whole thing again, but I do need to be "checked".

    I'm not fully licensed, I am restricted to 15 hrs solo, rechecked every
    90 days. Plus to take passengers, I need to have done 3 take offs and landings in the previous 30 days.

    What's your license?

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Monday, May 11, 2020 23:09:01
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun May 10 2020 11:12 pm

    exposures and filters, similar to w I meneioned last time around.

    yes, their 'pictures' are fake as hell.

    I don't think what they do invalidates their photos. They probably need the higher resolution from the black & white sensors.
    "Fake" - You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means (in this context).


    they take white dots and color them and draw swirls and other bullshit.
    ---
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 02:29:00
    Nightfox wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Mon May 11 2020 11:23 pm

    Sims are extremely limiting to me. It's not really possible for me to do actual pattern work due to the fact that I don't have wraparound screens to eyeball the runway and such. I've seen people use VR, but a keyboard is no substitute with an actual throttle or yoke.

    I've seen fairly elaborate flight controls connected to a PC, so you aren't limited to just a keyboard. I've seen people share photos of
    their setups, like this one: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/f2/c3/42f2c36844fc14828b10323289ec3037 .jpg

    I've seen them all but I can't imagine spending all that money on a fake cockpit when I have a real one in a plane to fly in. Nothing is a substitute for real flight. Even instrument training is allowed some hours to be done in simulators because it's partially about learning how to read the instruments. But, most of it is in the cockpit.

    Airline pilots use simulators to practice their emergency procedures becasue it's far cheaper than doing it in a real jet. And also, you walk away from them.

    It's cool to have a simulator as a pilot, not saying it isn't. But I could guarantee you that is far different than the real thing.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to alterego on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 02:32:00
    alterego wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Mon May 11 2020 11:23 pm

    What coutnry are you in?

    Australia.

    Ahh yes okay. Not sure about any other country's requirements.

    Flightsim is great too - but it lacks that "6th sense" you get when
    you are out there :)

    Sims are extremely limiting to me. It's not really possible for me to do actual pattern work due to the fact that I don't have wraparound screens to eyeball the runway and such. I've seen people use VR, but a keyboard is no substitute with an actual throttle or yoke.

    That's the 6th sense I'm talking about.

    Yeah I was concurring.

    You also dont feel youself falling or floating when you approach the runaway - where you need to play with the RPMs a wee bit.

    I generally set my landing RPM on the downwind as I pass the numbers. Speed control is relatively a non-issue once I lower my gear. I'll land oftentimes without flaps. But I will use flaps sometimes just because.

    I learnt at Moorabbin (YMML) and on approach to 17L there is a small
    lake on a golf course on short final. Sometimes on hot days you would
    feel going over the lake - a small dip, which if you werent ready for would mess up your approach ;) ...¢E¢*

    Yeah no thermals over water.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to calcmandan on Monday, May 11, 2020 21:52:18
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Tue May 12 2020 02:29 am

    I've seen fairly elaborate flight controls connected to a PC, so you
    aren't limited to just a keyboard. I've seen people share photos of
    their setups, like this one:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/f2/c3/42f2c36844fc14828b10323289ec
    3037
    .jpg

    I've seen them all but I can't imagine spending all that money on a fake cockpit when I have a real one in a plane to fly in. Nothing is a substitute for real flight. Even instrument training is allowed some hours to be done in simulators because it's partially about learning how to read the instruments. But, most of it is in the cockpit.

    Airline pilots use simulators to practice their emergency procedures becasue it's far cheaper than doing it in a real jet. And also, you walk away from them.

    It's cool to have a simulator as a pilot, not saying it isn't. But I could guarantee you that is far different than the real thing.

    True, though it's like driving/racing games - I have a car that I drive, but I still like plaing racing games on my PC sometimes. I've never flown a plane, but what if it's 11:00PM on a Saturday or something and it's not really convenient to drive out to the local airport and rent a Cessna? I know it's not exactly like the real thing, and in a way it's not really supposed to be, but I think it's still fun. And even if you do have a pilot's license, there might still be things you could do in a flight simulator that you maybe wouldn't do in real life. How about flying an SR-71? Or flying from a different airport than where you live. Or what have you. Sometimes there's some funny stuff available for flight simulators too - They usually allow custom aircrafts, and I've seen people make things like the USS Enterprise from Star Trek, or the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars, as an aircraft for a flight simulator. It's fun stuff like that.

    I also think things like flight simulators for a PC can also be a showcase for things like realistic graphics, etc.. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 seems particularly interesting because it will be using live map data from Microsoft's Bing Map servers to show actual scenery from the whole world, rather than generated generic scenery and scenery packs you have to install individually for certain locations.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to calcmandan on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 15:51:06
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue May 12 2020 02:23 am

    What's your license?

    The licensing has changed since I started - my license is "GFPT" (General Flying Progress Test".

    It means I'm restricted to single engine aircraft using VFR, can fly solo and take passengers, but I must return to the same field that I depart from, and I cannot fly further than 10 miles without approval.

    I also have to be checked every 15hrs, or 90 days, whichever occurs first.

    The next step is PPL (Private Pilot) - which I did all the theory and passed, I just have to do the fligt test. Once you have, you can sign the morning aircraft check, fly anywhere and only need to be checked every 2 years. But still must have completed 3 take offs in 30 days to take passengers.
    ...ëîå*

    ... Real Programmers do List Processing in FORTRAN.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 06:45:00
    Nightfox wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Tue May 12 2020 02:29 am

    I've seen fairly elaborate flight controls connected to a PC, so you
    aren't limited to just a keyboard. I've seen people share photos of
    their setups, like this one:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/f2/c3/42f2c36844fc14828b10323289ec
    3037
    .jpg

    I've seen them all but I can't imagine spending all that money on a fake cockpit when I have a real one in a plane to fly in. Nothing is a substitute for real flight. Even instrument training is allowed some hours to be done in simulators because it's partially about learning how to read the instruments. But, most of it is in the cockpit.

    Airline pilots use simulators to practice their emergency procedures becasue it's far cheaper than doing it in a real jet. And also, you walk away from them.

    It's cool to have a simulator as a pilot, not saying it isn't. But I could guarantee you that is far different than the real thing.

    True, though it's like driving/racing games - I have a car that I
    drive, but I still like plaing racing games on my PC sometimes. I've never flown a plane, but what if it's 11:00PM on a Saturday or
    something and it's not really convenient to drive out to the local
    airport and rent a Cessna? I know it's not exactly like the real
    thing, and in a way it's not really supposed to be, but I think it's
    still fun. And even if you do have a pilot's license, there might
    still be things you could do in a flight simulator that you maybe
    wouldn't do in real life. How about flying an SR-71? Or flying from a different airport than where you live. Or what have you. Sometimes there's some funny stuff available for flight simulators too - They usually allow custom aircrafts, and I've seen people make things like
    the USS Enterprise from Star Trek, or the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars, as an aircraft for a flight simulator. It's fun stuff like that.

    OH i understand that man. I spent years with flight sims, partially because I thought you had to have 20/20 vision to fly. Found out that isn't necessary at all. I also thought it was for the rich. found out that wasn't true either. Once i realized I could be a pilot I jumped at it.

    And lucky that I wasn't married when I bought the plane. No one told me I couldn't.

    Anyway, yeah.

    I also think things like flight simulators for a PC can also be a
    showcase for things like realistic graphics, etc.. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 seems particularly interesting because it will be using live map data from Microsoft's Bing Map servers to show actual scenery from the whole world, rather than generated generic scenery and scenery packs you have to install individually for certain locations.

    We've been waiting for 2020 to come out for some time, ever since MS flaunted a demo during last year's airventure. What we're really waiting on are the physics engine. A simulator that can emulate real stalling conditions, cross winds that are realistic, etc. Earlier sims were really lacking in that department.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to alterego on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 06:46:00
    alterego wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue May 12 2020 02:23 am

    What's your license?

    The licensing has changed since I started - my license is "GFPT"
    (General Flying Progress Test".

    It means I'm restricted to single engine aircraft using VFR, can fly
    solo and take passengers, but I must return to the same field that I depart from, and I cannot fly further than 10 miles without approval.

    I also have to be checked every 15hrs, or 90 days, whichever occurs
    first.

    The next step is PPL (Private Pilot) - which I did all the theory and passed, I just have to do the fligt test. Once you have, you can sign
    the morning aircraft check, fly anywhere and only need to be checked
    every 2 years. But still must have completed 3 take offs in 30 days to take passengers. ...¢E¢*

    Which country do you live?

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 07:24:30
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon May 11 2020 23:09:01


    Nightfox>>>> exposures and filters, similar to w I meneioned last time
    Nightfox>>>> around.

    yes, their 'pictures' are fake as hell.

    Nightfox>> I don't think what they do invalidates their photos. They
    Nightfox>> probably need the higher resolution from the black & white
    Nightfox>> sensors. "Fake" - You keep using that word. I don't think
    Nightfox>> it means what you think it means (in this context).

    they take white dots and color them and draw swirls and other
    bullshit.

    you really don't understand how it works, then, if that's all you think is being done... they certainly do not "draw swirls and other bullshit"...

    the key is the use of filters which allow only certain light frequencies to be recorded on the black and white film in shades... so you get a photo of only oxygen, or only nitrogen, or only some other gas you are filtering for... then they apply a chosen color to each so that, for example, the oxygen photo is shades of blue on color film... maybe yellow for nitrogen shades and maybe red for carbon dioxide shades... so now you have three color photos, each one is of only the selected gas reflected light frequency... they are then aligned and overlaid so they are combined into one color picture and there it is...

    sometimes they may take stacks of each filtered black and white and stack them to bring out more of the gas light frequencies... then they do the same as above and you come out with a more brillant colored photo of that area of space...

    the reason for the stacking is because each of the pixels comes out stronger because stacking is an additive process... so if you have pixels in one photo of a specific area that are range 50 to 100 and pixels in another photo of the same area that are 75 to 125, they are added together so the stacked range is 50 to 225... remember, these are all taken through one filter so what has been done is to enhance/brighten the stuff you might not see because it was dim... but now that you've stacked the images, they're added together and they're brighter in the image...

    this is exactly how you do photography so you can see what might not be visible to the naked eye... it is certainly not "fake" or "drawn swirls and other bullshit"...


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to calcmandan on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 07:56:20
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Tue May 12 2020 06:45:00


    calcmandan> What we're really waiting on are the physics engine.

    this already exists... JSBSim is a FDM (Flight Dynamics Model)... it can be used in numerous apps that need flight physics calculated... one only need supply the necessary numbers to calculate the desired results...

    http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/


    calcmandan> A simulator that can emulate real stalling conditions,

    this is available now with proper modeling numerics... wind tunnel numbers are important and when they are fed into a numerical processor like JSBSim that has the right functions defined, then you get very realistic stalls,
    spins, and other flight characteristics... almost anything can be modeled... even water/gas flow...

    calcmandan> cross winds that are realistic, etc.

    this is the hard part... where are you going to get this information from? METAR is available but it carries a small subset of what is needed... you can extrapolate between METARs from different locations and get something
    that is close but you likely will not see rain (for example) outside your window when the similator is showing rain at your location...

    calcmandan> Earlier sims were really lacking in that department.

    yes, very much so... but those were also mainly games and not simulators even though they may have had "simulator" in their name ;)


    full disclosure: i've been working with flightgear for some 5 years or so... it is a 20 year old project originally created to have better graphics than what m$ flight simulator and other available sims provided at the time... there are numerous companies using FG for their flight simulations and training scenarios... recently there's a project by a group working with the military to simulate and test the detection and tracking of objects like other craft, missiles in flight, and other stuff related to spatial awareness in one's surrounding area...

    there are also numerous folks building their own cockpits to use for their similators... at least one uses a huge curved mylar screen mounted on a wood frame and kept taut by vaccuum... the scenery is projected on it for a full 3D surround image... some of these guys are cutting their panels out of metal sheet... some are using plastic sheet... some are building entire panels using 3D printing... it is all pretty cool watching their progress and how they are solving problems like having dozens of inputs by using (for example) several arduinos reading input matrixes and outputting that data to the cockpit guages...

    one of our very own sysops and sbbs operators owns an actual F-15 cockpit that he's working into a fully operational simulator with flightgear ;)

    https://www.f15sim.com/

    amazing the stuff that comes out of washington state :)


    )\/(ark

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 21:54:00
    On 05-11-20 21:52, Nightfox wrote to calcmandan <=-

    True, though it's like driving/racing games - I have a car that I
    drive, but I still like plaing racing games on my PC sometimes. I've

    I can't play driving/racing games, no feel, which I rely on in a real car.

    I also think things like flight simulators for a PC can also be a
    showcase for things like realistic graphics, etc.. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 seems particularly interesting because it will be using live map data from Microsoft's Bing Map servers to show actual scenery from the whole world, rather than generated generic scenery and scenery packs you have to install individually for certain locations.

    With me, it's the vestinular sensations when moving that have more impact than the visuals - you can't get those in a PC game. :/

    Probably one reason I love sprints (as well as the fact I'm built for speed).
    D


    ... Boy, I'm tellin you fer yer own good, I studied them things.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Jon Justvig@VERT/STEPPING to Nightfox on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 10:40:16
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 2020 09:22 pm

    Hi Nightfox,

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Paulie420 on Mon May 11 2020 09:36 am
    I started looking into what it takes to take pilot lessons when I was 25. I think I would have had the discipline back then (and if you really want to do something, you're usually motivated to do it). I just turned 40 a couple months ago, and I imagine I probably could still do it if I had the money (and also the time).

    If you're getting your pilot's license, bring your chopper around here, k? We could cruise through the neighborhood with the bright beam on and see what people are doing. ;)

    -cr1mson

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Stepping Stone BBS -- steppingstonebbs.com
  • From Jon Justvig@VERT/STEPPING to Nightfox on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 10:52:08
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Paulie420 on Mon May 11 2020 02:47 pm

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Paulie420 to calcmandan on Mon May 11 2020 08:34 am

    Currently I'm living in Portland, OR...

    You're not far from me. :P

    Where are your where-abouts these days? Dorothy might disagree, but I'm still here in Wichita, KS. Dorothy was a character in a movie called Wizard of Oz. She originally said, 'Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.' Toto being her friend (a dog). Kansas is just a city to me. Not much to do here... being in Kansas any everything. They're starting to open things up at a slow pace here to ensure safety.

    -cr1mson

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Stepping Stone BBS -- steppingstonebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jon Justvig on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 10:51:52
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Jon Justvig to Nightfox on Tue May 12 2020 10:52 am

    Currently I'm living in Portland, OR...

    You're not far from me. :P

    Where are your where-abouts these days?

    Hillsboro, OR

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to Nightfox on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 07:11:54
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Paulie420 on Mon May 11 2020 02:47 pm

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Paulie420 to calcmandan on Mon May 11 2020 08:34 am

    Currently I'm living in Portland, OR...
    You're not far from me. :P
    Nightfox

    Yea, I get thru Hillsboro a couple times a week. Well, under normal circumstances anyhow... I pray that things will look normal again anytime soon. Ugh.

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
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  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to alterego on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 07:13:51
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: alterego to Paulie420 on Tue May 12 2020 07:52 am

    I dont believe I need to do the whole thing again, but I do need to be "checked".

    I'm not fully licensed, I am restricted to 15 hrs solo, rechecked every 90 days. Plus to take passengers, I need to have done 3 take offs and landings in the previous 30 days.

    So when I get back into it, I'll do a couple of sessions with an instructor (and then when they are happy with me, they'll approve me for solo opertaions again within the constraints of my license).

    I hope when I get back into it, I can change to full PPL - which means the 15hrs/90 days gets lifted, and changed to every 2 years. But the passenger rule still applies. (I've done all the theory work, just need to do the flight test.) ...ëîå*

    Thanks for those details also; I'm just amazed and interested in how it all works.. and yea, I'm 40... I really do think I'm going to get my ass in there and give it a whirl. You're only a shitty 40 if you accept a shitty 40.

    I'm going to go create the Paulie's a pilot 40!

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to calcmandan on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 07:18:28
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Paulie420 on Tue May 12 2020 02:18 am

    You'll never know until you jump into that cockpit with him. If you don't click with him, your hours still count. You don't start all over because you have a new instructor. I went through three instructors with my first school and my final instructor to finish my training. All those hours added up to meet my minimum requirements.

    The discipline I mentioned in a previous post, and the seriousness you have to have, are necessary not just for being a good safe pilot, but it's also there for you to obtain the knowledge during the four hour exam with the FAA examiner. He's watching your body language, bmobarding you with all matter of questions, studying your logbook, trying to trick you. He'll be asking you regulation questions while conducting a stall recovery, for instance. These peple are entrusted by the FAA to approve your license. The guy who examined me has an INTENSE history. From military fighter pilot, to combat helo pilot, to airline/cargo pilot, test pilot. He was a veritable dictionary of knowledge and he deemed me safe as a pilot. My CFI never would have endorsed my logbook for a checkride if he wasn't sure I was ready. He has to maintain an 80% passing rate of students to maintain his license to teach. This stuff is serious.

    It might be a moment, because of corona... but I will let you know when I make my first contact with the flight school. Like I said, I know the one place here.. Stark's Twin Oaks Airpark... and I'm just gonna pull on in there man. I really have interest, money and a body.. I wanna be the best 40 I can be. :P

    Daniel Traechin
    Paul Hughes

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 18:40:50
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Tue May 12 2020 07:24 am

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon May 11 2020 23:09:01


    Nightfox>>>> exposures and filters, similar to w I meneioned last time
    Nightfox>>>> around.

    yes, their 'pictures' are fake as hell.

    Nightfox>> I don't think what they do invalidates their photos. They
    Nightfox>> probably need the higher resolution from the black & white
    Nightfox>> sensors. "Fake" - You keep using that word. I don't think
    Nightfox>> it means what you think it means (in this context).

    they take white dots and color them and draw swirls and other bullshit.

    you really don't understand how it works, then, if that's all you think is being done... they certainly do not "draw swirls and other bullshit"...

    the key is the use of filters which allow only certain light frequencies to recorded on the black and white film in shades... so you get a photo of only oxygen, or only nitrogen, or only some other gas you are filtering for... th they apply a chosen color to each so that, for example, the oxygen photo is shades of blue on color film... maybe yellow for nitrogen shades and maybe r for carbon dioxide shades... so now you have three color photos, each one is only the selected gas reflected light frequency... they are then aligned and overlaid so they are combined into one color picture and there it is...

    sometimes they may take stacks of each filtered black and white and stack th to bring out more of the gas light frequencies... then they do the same as above and you come out with a more brillant colored photo of that area of space...

    the reason for the stacking is because each of the pixels comes out stronger because stacking is an additive process... so if you have pixels in one phot of a specific area that are range 50 to 100 and pixels in another photo of t same area that are 75 to 125, they are added together so the stacked range i 50 to 225... remember, these are all taken through one filter so what has be done is to enhance/brighten the stuff you might not see because it was dim.. but now that you've stacked the images, they're added together and they're brighter in the image...

    this is exactly how you do photography so you can see what might not be visi to the naked eye... it is certainly not "fake" or "drawn swirls and other bullshit"...


    they are artists renderings. boy i wish this was facebook so i can do my laugh emoji
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Paulie420 on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 17:51:27
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Paulie420 to Nightfox on Tue May 12 2020 07:11 am

    Yea, I get thru Hillsboro a couple times a week. Well, under normal circumstances anyhow... I pray that things will look normal again anytime soon. Ugh.

    Yep, me too.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Rampage on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 00:47:00
    Rampage wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Tue May 12 2020 06:45:00


    calcmandan> What we're really waiting on are the physics engine.

    this already exists... JSBSim is a FDM (Flight Dynamics Model)... it
    can be used in numerous apps that need flight physics calculated... one only need supply the necessary numbers to calculate the desired
    results...

    Have you seen the demo that MS put out for airventure? Real world raelism is what they seemed to have obtained.

    http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/


    calcmandan> A simulator that can emulate real stalling conditions,

    this is available now with proper modeling numerics... wind tunnel
    numbers are important and when they are fed into a numerical processor like JSBSim that has the right functions defined, then you get very realistic stalls, spins, and other flight characteristics... almost anything can be modeled... even water/gas flow...

    Cool

    calcmandan> cross winds that are realistic, etc.

    this is the hard part... where are you going to get this information
    from? METAR is available but it carries a small subset of what is needed... you can extrapolate between METARs from different locations
    and get something that is close but you likely will not see rain (for example) outside your window when the similator is showing rain at your location...

    I think what matters is a simulator's ability to react to a crosswind, as you would during flight. Or even turbulence.

    calcmandan> Earlier sims were really lacking in that department.

    yes, very much so... but those were also mainly games and not
    simulators even though they may have had "simulator" in their name ;)

    I'm talking about flight simulator, mostly. I've used fg but mostly for military. I used to host a multiplayer carrier on a separate laptop and planned cruises for people to conduct 'military' ops with. My favorite plane was/is the a6 intruder.

    full disclosure: i've been working with flightgear for some 5 years or so... it is a 20 year old project originally created to have better graphics than what m$ flight simulator and other available sims
    provided at the time... there are numerous companies using FG for their flight simulations and training scenarios... recently there's a project
    by a group working with the military to simulate and test the detection and tracking of objects like other craft, missiles in flight, and other stuff related to spatial awareness in one's surrounding area...

    there are also numerous folks building their own cockpits to use for
    their similators... at least one uses a huge curved mylar screen
    mounted on a wood frame and kept taut by vaccuum... the scenery is projected on it for a full 3D surround image... some of these guys are cutting their panels out of metal sheet... some are using plastic
    sheet... some are building entire panels using 3D printing... it is all pretty cool watching their progress and how they are solving problems
    like having dozens of inputs by using (for example) several arduinos reading input matrixes and outputting that data to the cockpit
    guages...

    one of our very own sysops and sbbs operators owns an actual F-15
    cockpit that he's working into a fully operational simulator with flightgear ;)

    https://www.f15sim.com/

    amazing the stuff that comes out of washington state :)

    sweet

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Paulie420 on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 00:50:00
    It might be a moment, because of corona... but I will let you know when
    I make my first contact with the flight school. Like I said, I know the one place here.. Stark's Twin Oaks Airpark... and I'm just gonna pull
    on in there man. I really have interest, money and a body.. I wanna be
    the best 40 I can be. :P

    Do shop around. Craigslist is a good place to start. Not saying all schools rip you off, but they've earned a reputation and I also speak from experience.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Jon Justvig on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 01:44:00
    Jon Justvig wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 2020 09:22 pm

    Hi Nightfox,

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Paulie420 on Mon May 11 2020 09:36 am
    I started looking into what it takes to take pilot lessons when I was 25. I think I would have had the discipline back then (and if you really want to do something, you're usually motivated to do it). I just turned 40 a couple months ago, and I imagine I probably could still do it if I had the money (and also the time).

    If you're getting your pilot's license, bring your chopper around here,
    k? We could cruise through the neighborhood with the bright beam on
    and see what people are doing. ;)

    When I was a wee lad, probably forty years ago, I flashed a police chopper with a cluster of headlights that my older brother rigged with a battery charger. They were about two miles away and I recall that the light was strong enough to partially illuminating that chopper. I shut the light off and seconds later it turned and flew my direction. It flew over my house and kept going. It never circled around and I heard it fly off in the distance.

    I hindsight, they were just heading back to their base airport. But, while it was flying over, I was about to pinch a loaf in my underoos.

    Daniel Traechin


    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Rampage on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 01:45:00
    Rampage wrote to MRO <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon May 11 2020 23:09:01


    Nightfox>>>> exposures and filters, similar to w I meneioned last time
    Nightfox>>>> around.

    yes, their 'pictures' are fake as hell.

    Nightfox>> I don't think what they do invalidates their photos. They
    Nightfox>> probably need the higher resolution from the black & white
    Nightfox>> sensors. "Fake" - You keep using that word. I don't think
    Nightfox>> it means what you think it means (in this context).

    they take white dots and color them and draw swirls and other
    bullshit.

    you really don't understand how it works, then, if that's all you think
    is being done... they certainly do not "draw swirls and other
    bullshit"...

    Don't feed him.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 07:40:35
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Tue May 12 2020 18:40:50


    Rampage>> this is exactly how you do photography so you can see what
    Rampage>> might not be visible to the naked eye... it is certainly not
    Rampage>> "fake" or "drawn swirls and other bullshit"...

    they are artists renderings. boy i wish this was facebook so i can do my laugh emoji

    *SOME* are artist renderings but certainly not all of them... there's hundreds of thousands of actual photos vs several thousand artist renderings :smh:


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to calcmandan on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 07:50:54
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Wed May 13 2020 01:45:00


    you really don't understand how it works, then, if that's all you
    think is being done... they certainly do not "draw swirls and other
    bullshit"...

    calcmandan> Don't feed him.

    i'm not feeding him... he's playing ignorant and carrying on about artist renderings as if they are the only NASA/space pictures there are ;)

    artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands and thousands of other real photos are the real awe inspiring stuff...


    )\/(ark

    ---
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  • From Paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to calcmandan on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 01:38:42
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Paulie420 on Wed May 13 2020 12:50 am

    Do shop around. Craigslist is a good place to start. Not saying all schools rip you off, but they've earned a reputation and I also speak from experience.
    Daniel Traechin

    Ah ha - ok I understand... try to find a private teacher. Derp, I heard you in the other post but... got it. Thanks kindly.

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 14:58:57
    Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Chickenhead on Thu May 07 2020 04:24 pm

    I've got a no-frills 3" refractor with a couple of eyepieces that I have fun with. With a sky chart app for my phone it adds a whole new dimension to stargazing for me.

    The kids always get a kick out of looking at the planets.


    I started out years ago with a 3" Mead ETX maksutov. It may be small but it is amazing what you can find even with a small aperture. I remember how thriled I was to locate the Ring Nebula just by star hopping around.

    You need to get up pretty early in the morning right now to see the planets. Venus is out at sunset but it's pretty dull compared to Jupiter and Saturn. Saturn never fails to get a "wow" out of anyone I let look through my scope.
    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

    ---
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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to calcmandan on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 15:11:20
    Re: Any Amateur Astronomers o
    By: calcmandan to Chickenhead on Fri May 08 2020 02:49 am

    I always wanted to, and now that I'm in a comfortable income bracket, I still can't afford amateur astronomy due to my other big hobby - aviation. I won't be able to afford HAM, which has a strong pull.

    Daniel Traechin


    I've been wanting to get my HAM license for way too long...was actually going to start studying for it when I got sick last fall and that whole fiasco ended up taking most of my concentration.

    Astrophotography always feels like a black art to me. I've done it using an old Pentax K-1000 with the shutter held open for 15 minutes with me at the eyepiece self-guiding, and I've done it with a couple different astro CCD cameras. Manual guiding with a camera is certainly the least technical, but can be...well, long, and hard on the neck. Plus with actual film going the way of the dodo...I doubt I'll be trying that anymore.

    And yet CCD astrophotography is intensely technical, at least with the SBIG cameras (never tried any others). Finally got out last night with my ST-2000XCM and spent most of the time fiddling with the software. Once the camera is on, focusing can be maddening. And then there's all the mount calibration tweaking and whatnot.

    But at any rate I'll share the fruits of my first attempt in decades...the globular cluster M13 in Hercules:

    http://www.maplecroft.ca/astro/m13-05-13-2020.jpg

    I'd say it's still a bit out of focus. That's only a five-minute exposure, I usually do longer than that. I think I'll try the Ring next.

    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to Vk3jed on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 15:14:45
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: Vk3jed to Chickenhead on Fri May 08 2020 09:41 pm

    Cool, I have a 6" Newtonian, but haven't brought it out for stargazing for ages. Used to do a bit of astrophotography as well - planetary photos with a CCD astro camera.


    Oddly enough I never did ANY planetary photos in the past. I was primarily obsessed with deep sky. No longer...I can't wait to get Jupiter in focus.

    The wife has her own 8" dobsonian from years back she hasn't used in a very long while. I cleaned that one up too..still gets some nice views. Takes only seconds to set up, unlike my 11" CGE.

    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

    ---
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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to Ogg on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 15:18:53
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: Ogg to Chickenhead on Fri May 08 2020 11:35 am

    Is it possible to see any of the equipment left on the moon?

    Someone dropped off a Bushnell Computerized Star Locator, w/NorthStar Model 78-7860.

    Is it worthwhile taking it out of the box?


    Hah, not with small terrestrial scopes. Or even large ones. The stuff they left up there is really tiny compared to everything else. I've heard rumors that Hubble might be able to do it...they denied Hubble could even look at the moon and then suddenly changed their mind about that several years back.

    You can bounce a laser off the mirror they left there though.

    I don't know a thing about the bushnell locator though...sorry.

    Hmm junk on the moon..that just triggered a memory. Anyone remember "Salvage-1" from the late 70's or early 80's? I think it had Andy Griffith in it.

    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

    ---
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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to calcmandan on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 15:23:57
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Vk3jed on Sat May 09 2020 06:35 am

    Ican only imagine. Just the cost of a high quality imager. do they still sell the ccd's? or do you just attach cameras now since they're all digital now?

    Daniel Traechin


    Well SBIG is sort-of still around. They sold themselves to some Canadian company years ago but the SBIG camera line is still being sold. Starlight Xpress is still around as well. They were the first to do the single-shot color cameras, which I love. I despise the color filter wheel thing.

    You can just stick a webcam in front of an eyepiece...not sure if you can do deep exposures that way. I put my Android phone over the eyepiece and got some great moon shots.

    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:52:00
    On 05-13-20 15:14, Chickenhead wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: Vk3jed to Chickenhead on Fri May 08 2020 09:41 pm

    Cool, I have a 6" Newtonian, but haven't brought it out for stargazing for ages. Used to do a bit of astrophotography as well - planetary photos with a CCD astro camera.


    Oddly enough I never did ANY planetary photos in the past. I was primarily obsessed with deep sky. No longer...I can't wait to get Jupiter in focus.

    I started with planetary, because it was still marginally cheaper than deep space when one doesn't already have a DSLR camera, and besides I was always fascinated with the planets as a kid.

    The wife has her own 8" dobsonian from years back she hasn't used in a very long while. I cleaned that one up too..still gets some nice
    views. Takes only seconds to set up, unlike my 11" CGE.

    Nice. They sound perfect for deep space work. Do you know the focal length of those telescopes?

    Deep space usually needs a wider aperture and shorter focal length than planetary imaging. That's because DSOs like nebulae and clusters are often both fainter (needing more light collected) and larger in terms of angular width (meaning less magnification needed).


    ... Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Rampage on Thursday, May 14, 2020 00:08:00
    Rampage wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Wed May 13 2020 01:45:00


    you really don't understand how it works, then, if that's all you
    think is being done... they certainly do not "draw swirls and other
    bullshit"...

    calcmandan> Don't feed him.

    i'm not feeding him... he's playing ignorant and carrying on about
    artist renderings as if they are the only NASA/space pictures there are
    ;)

    artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands and thousands of other real photos are the real awe inspiring stuff...

    I know they're real but does it matter what game he's playing if the end result is trollery? When he threatened to kick my ass one day, which gave me a healthy belly laugh, I realized that he's one to be ignored.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... s
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Rampage on Thursday, May 14, 2020 14:16:00
    On 05-13-20 07:40, Rampage wrote to MRO <=-

    *SOME* are artist renderings but certainly not all of them... there's hundreds of thousands of actual photos vs several thousand artist renderings :smh:

    And NASA do label artists' renderings as such. These are generally used to provide visuals for people for objects which we're not able to view in sufficient detail (e.g. exoplanets or even stars, or objects not yet visited). Artist drawings are also used to depict imagined future events like a manned landing on Mars or crewed spacecradt travelling through the Solar System or to the stars, since these have obviously not happened yet.

    But images of the planets these days are almost all, if not all, actual photographs, since NASA has a huge number from their robotic missions.


    ... If Apple made cars, would it have Windows?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Thursday, May 14, 2020 14:18:00
    On 05-13-20 14:58, Chickenhead wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    You need to get up pretty early in the morning right now to see the planets. Venus is out at sunset but it's pretty dull compared to
    Jupiter and Saturn. Saturn never fails to get a "wow" out of anyone I
    let look through my scope. The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we
    feel like it.

    Nothing really beats Saturn, it is always spectacular through a telescope. Jupiter's not bad either, especially when its larger moons get into the act. :)


    ... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Thursday, May 14, 2020 14:27:00
    On 05-13-20 15:11, Chickenhead wrote to calcmandan <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    Re: Any Amateur Astronomers o
    By: calcmandan to Chickenhead on Fri May 08 2020 02:49 am

    I always wanted to, and now that I'm in a comfortable income bracket, I still can't afford amateur astronomy due to my other big hobby - aviation. I won't be able to afford HAM, which has a strong pull.

    Daniel Traechin


    I've been wanting to get my HAM license for way too long...was actually going to start studying for it when I got sick last fall and that whole fiasco ended up taking most of my concentration.

    Maybe time to get back into it.

    Astrophotography always feels like a black art to me. I've done it
    using an old Pentax K-1000 with the shutter held open for 15 minutes
    with me at the eyepiece self-guiding, and I've done it with a couple different astro CCD cameras. Manual guiding with a camera is certainly the least technical, but can be...well, long, and hard on the neck.
    Plus with actual film going the way of the dodo...I doubt I'll be
    trying that anymore.

    You can do the same with a modern DSLR, in pretty much the same ways. The camera body is much the same, and it uses the same attachments to the telescope. The only difference is the CCD sensor replaces film.

    And yet CCD astrophotography is intensely technical, at least with the SBIG cameras (never tried any others). Finally got out last night with
    my ST-2000XCM and spent most of the time fiddling with the software.
    Once the camera is on, focusing can be maddening. And then there's all the mount calibration tweaking and whatnot.

    There is a lot too it, that's for sure.

    But at any rate I'll share the fruits of my first attempt in
    decades...the globular cluster M13 in Hercules:

    http://www.maplecroft.ca/astro/m13-05-13-2020.jpg

    Not bad! :)


    ... Quiet, don't type so hard, I've got a headache!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thursday, May 14, 2020 06:31:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    On 05-13-20 14:58, Chickenhead wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    You need to get up pretty early in the morning right now to see the planets. Venus is out at sunset but it's pretty dull compared to
    Jupiter and Saturn. Saturn never fails to get a "wow" out of anyone I
    let look through my scope. The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we
    feel like it.

    Nothing really beats Saturn, it is always spectacular through a
    telescope. Jupiter's not bad either, especially when its larger moons
    get into the act. :)

    It would be hella if Io ever eclipsed the red spot, smack in the middle.

    Then caught on Hubble.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to calcmandan on Thursday, May 14, 2020 05:16:38
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 00:08:00


    artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands and
    thousands of other real photos are the real awe inspiring stuff...

    calcmandan> I know they're real

    yeah... that wasn't really directed at you, though... it was just a conclusion to the previous...

    calcmandan> but does it matter what game he's playing if the end result
    calcmandan> is trollery?

    i'm of two minds on this...

    1. don't feed the trolls
    2. don't allow false statements to live

    which brings forth the following...

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
    is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

    calcmandan> When he threatened to kick my ass one day, which gave me a
    calcmandan> healthy belly laugh, I realized that he's one to be ignored.

    :)


    )\/(ark

    ---
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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Vk3jed on Thursday, May 14, 2020 05:22:03
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 14:16:00


    *SOME* are artist renderings but certainly not all of them...
    there's hundreds of thousands of actual photos vs several thousand
    artist renderings :smh:

    Vk3jed> And NASA do label artists' renderings as such. These are
    Vk3jed> generally used to provide visuals for people for objects which
    Vk3jed> we're not able to view in sufficient detail (e.g. exoplanets or
    Vk3jed> even stars, or objects not yet visited). Artist drawings are
    Vk3jed> also used to depict imagined future events like a manned landing
    Vk3jed> on Mars or crewed spacecradt travelling through the Solar System
    Vk3jed> or to the stars, since these have obviously not happened yet.

    Vk3jed> But images of the planets these days are almost all, if not all,
    Vk3jed> actual photographs, since NASA has a huge number from their
    Vk3jed> robotic missions.

    exactly... and anyone espousing anything else about them is displaying their ignorance, being a troll, or both...


    )\/(ark

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    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Thursday, May 14, 2020 20:26:00
    On 05-14-20 06:31, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Nothing really beats Saturn, it is always spectacular through a
    telescope. Jupiter's not bad either, especially when its larger moons
    get into the act. :)

    It would be hella if Io ever eclipsed the red spot, smack in the
    middle.

    That would be a great shot! :)

    I've seen one with the ISS transiting the moon, taken by an amateur astronomer.


    ... Bugs are sons of glitches
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Rampage on Thursday, May 14, 2020 20:27:00
    On 05-14-20 05:22, Rampage wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Vk3jed> But images of the planets these days are almost all, if not
    all,
    Vk3jed> actual photographs, since NASA has a huge number from their
    Vk3jed> robotic missions.

    exactly... and anyone espousing anything else about them is displaying their ignorance, being a troll, or both...

    Yep. :)


    ... !Who! wal!ked acc!ross this ta!glin!e wit!h muddy fee!t!!
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to calcmandan on Thursday, May 14, 2020 18:32:16
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Wed May 13 2020 01:45 am

    Don't feed him.

    Daniel Traechin


    okay enjoy my twitlist, new guy.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Thursday, May 14, 2020 18:32:56
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Wed May 13 2020 07:40 am

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Tue May 12 2020 18:40:50


    Rampage>> this is exactly how you do photography so you can see what
    Rampage>> might not be visible to the naked eye... it is certainly not
    Rampage>> "fake" or "drawn swirls and other bullshit"...

    they are artists renderings. boy i wish this was facebook so i can do laugh emoji

    *SOME* are artist renderings but certainly not all of them... there's hundre of thousands of actual photos vs several thousand artist renderings :smh:



    you keep believing that.
    so where do you draw the line? they take a white dot and add all kinds of bullshit to it. when does it stop being an actual photograph?
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Thursday, May 14, 2020 18:33:43
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to calcmandan on Wed May 13 2020 07:50 am

    artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands and thousand of other real photos are the real awe inspiring stuff...


    the real stuff is not awe inspiring. it's quite boring and bland.
    that's why they have artists draw them instead.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to all on Thursday, May 14, 2020 18:35:34
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 12:08 am


    I know they're real but does it matter what game he's playing if the end res is trollery? When he threatened to kick my ass one day, which gave me a heal belly laugh, I realized that he's one to be ignored.


    now that time i was actually trolling you because you were so stupid and you couldnt catch on to what we were talking about.

    glad you had a belly laugh.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Thursday, May 14, 2020 18:38:37
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 08:27 pm


    exactly... and anyone espousing anything else about them is displaying their ignorance, being a troll, or both...

    Yep. :)


    call me a crazy or an idiot or a troll. i dont give a fuck.

    but when you take a little white dot and color in things that MIGHT/SHOULD be there but they arent visible to the eye or maybe they are visible.

    that stops being an original photograph and it's an artist's rendering.

    and in nasa's case they push it so far it's not even a photograph anymore.
    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 12:21:00
    On 05-14-20 18:38, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    call me a crazy or an idiot or a troll. i dont give a fuck.

    but when you take a little white dot and color in things that
    MIGHT/SHOULD be there but they arent visible to the eye or maybe they
    are visible.

    References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.


    ... Now there's a beetle in my soup. Sorry, sir, we're out of flies today.
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Rampage on Friday, May 15, 2020 01:09:00
    Rampage wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 00:08:00


    artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands and
    thousands of other real photos are the real awe inspiring stuff...

    calcmandan> I know they're real

    yeah... that wasn't really directed at you, though... it was just a conclusion to the previous...

    calcmandan> but does it matter what game he's playing if the end
    result
    calcmandan> is trollery?

    i'm of two minds on this...

    1. don't feed the trolls
    2. don't allow false statements to live

    Valid point. Except, I don't believe the audience would be steered the other way over one troll's behavior. We're not talking about a bunch of impressionable teenagers in here. And even then, most of them wouldn't believe him anyway. They're smarter than that.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Friday, May 15, 2020 01:10:00
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 05-14-20 06:31, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Nothing really beats Saturn, it is always spectacular through a
    telescope. Jupiter's not bad either, especially when its larger moons
    get into the act. :)

    It would be hella if Io ever eclipsed the red spot, smack in the
    middle.

    That would be a great shot! :)

    I've seen one with the ISS transiting the moon, taken by an amateur astronomer.

    I've seen a few of the ISS, the Shuttle, the Shuttle & ISS before meeting. Great stuff.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 01:25:00
    MRO wrote to Rampage <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to calcmandan on Wed May 13 2020 07:50 am

    artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands and thousand of other real photos are the real awe inspiring stuff...


    the real stuff is not awe inspiring. it's quite boring and bland.
    that's why they have artists draw them instead.

    That's your opinion. If seeing deep sky images from Hubble are simply boring to you, then claiming that it's fake because it's less boring follows illogically.

    Daniel traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 01:27:00
    MRO wrote to all <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 12:08 am


    I know they're real but does it matter what game he's playing if the end res is trollery? When he threatened to kick my ass one day, which gave me a heal belly laugh, I realized that he's one to be ignored.


    now that time i was actually trolling you because you were so stupid
    and you couldnt catch on to what we were talking about.

    glad you had a belly laugh.

    I brought the subject up and knew exactly what the conversation was. It doesn't really matter that you were 'trolling' me on then or now. But it was still quite funny.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Friday, May 15, 2020 01:48:24
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri May 15 2020 12:21 pm

    On 05-14-20 18:38, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    call me a crazy or an idiot or a troll. i dont give a fuck.

    but when you take a little white dot and color in things that MIGHT/SHOULD be there but they arent visible to the eye or maybe they are visible.

    References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    just going by what i've seen from nasa over the years.
    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.
    ---
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  • From ryan@VERT/MONTEREY to Vk3jed on Friday, May 15, 2020 01:39:00
    References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    You'll find none. It runs counter to his narrative. Expect some kind of bullying remark instead of an informed response, btw.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Linux/64)
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  • From ryan@VERT/MONTEREY to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 01:42:00
    just going by what i've seen from nasa over the years.
    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.

    THIS I'd love to see. Please, make a wikipedia article and link it. Watch how fast it exists when scrutinized by the masses of informed people wondering where your sources are. I give it minutes, at best.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Linux/64)
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Friday, May 15, 2020 18:51:00
    On 05-15-20 01:10, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've seen one with the ISS transiting the moon, taken by an amateur astronomer.

    I've seen a few of the ISS, the Shuttle, the Shuttle & ISS before
    meeting. Great stuff.

    Yes, always good to see that sort of photography.


    ... Klingon vessel uncloaking....or is it Odo?
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 18:52:00
    On 05-15-20 01:48, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    just going by what i've seen from nasa over the years.

    That's opinion, not fact.

    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.

    Cite your references, otherwise they'll delete it.


    ... "I went insane trying to take a close up picture of the horizon!"
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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 08:14:00
    MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri May 15 2020 12:21 pm

    On 05-14-20 18:38, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    call me a crazy or an idiot or a troll. i dont give a fuck.

    but when you take a little white dot and color in things that MIGHT/SHOULD be there but they arent visible to the eye or maybe they are visible.

    References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    just going by what i've seen from nasa over the years.
    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.

    The challenge will be in publishing pseudoscience as fact and making it stick.

    Daniel Traechin
    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 08:12:18
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 18:32:56


    Rampage>> *SOME* are artist renderings but certainly not all of them...
    Rampage>> there's hundreds of thousands of actual photos vs several
    Rampage>> thousand artist renderings :smh:

    you keep believing that.

    i'm not in the believing business...

    so where do you draw the line? they take a white dot and add all
    kinds of bullshit to it.

    please post a link to an example of this...

    when does it stop being an actual photograph?

    that depends on what you are talking about... personally, i'm not aware of any official images that were originally a photo and someone painted over it to add stuff... if you are, please post a link to it/them...


    )\/(ark

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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 08:15:33
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 18:33:43


    Rampage>> artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands
    Rampage>> and thousand of other real photos are the real awe inspiring
    Rampage>> stuff...

    the real stuff is not awe inspiring. it's quite boring and bland.

    the live views i've seen of mars, jupiter, and saturn in my and other's telescopes are quite awe inspiring...

    that's why they have artists draw them instead.

    that's a bullshit statement... i repeat, *SOME* images are artists renderings but not all...


    )\/(ark

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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 08:21:48
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Thu May 14 2020 18:38:37


    but when you take a little white dot and color in things that MIGHT/SHOULD be there but they arent visible to the eye or
    maybe they are visible.

    no one is doing this in any official images... when you see stuff like this, you are seeing a stack of images taken with different filters... each filter allows only a certain wave length to be imaged... they take a lot of pictures with different filters and combine them into one image... each wavelength is assigned a certain color so when you see the final stacked image, you see the colorful ones instead of the black and white ones...

    some images are long exposure which gathers more of the wavelength the filter is letting through... this makes those particles appear brighter and allows thinner areas to be more easily seen... when stacked, you get an additive view... this isn't rocket science...


    )\/(ark

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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 09:43:30
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Fri May 15 2020 01:48:24


    but when you take a little white dot and color in things that
    MIGHT/SHOULD be there but they arent visible to the eye or maybe
    they are visible.

    Vk3jed>> References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    just going by what i've seen from nasa over the years.
    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.

    how about, right here in this topic, you drop links to official sources/images that support your claim(s)? that would go a lot further than some wiki article you might whip up... not to mention that they would likely last longer than a whipped up wiki article which could be removed before you even get the link to it pasted somewhere...


    )\/(ark

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 06:56:00
    MRO wrote to Rampage <=-

    the real stuff is not awe inspiring. it's quite boring and bland.
    that's why they have artists draw them instead.

    That's our problem, not theirs. I remember being in awe seeing the photos Pioneer sent back from Jupiter - black and white photos with artifacts and scan lines.

    Boring? no. Bland? Maybe. Just the sheer fact that we're seeing it up close with the equivalent of a Nokia candy bar phone with a dish antenna, sensors, and a plutonium battery traveling at 20,000 miles an hour is pretty freaking awesome.




    ... What do you hope to find, anyway?
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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to VK3JED on Friday, May 15, 2020 11:50:00
    but when you take a little white dot and color in things that MIGHT/SHOULD be there but they arent visible to the eye or maybe they are visible.

    References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    It is a fairly regular occurance to read an article about something that NASA/ESA/others have "seen" in the sky only to read the caption below the pictures to find out they are not real photos, or are photos that have been enhanced.

    Some are simply enhanced by using a different filter to take the photo. In
    my opinion, that is still a photo. Others are artist renderings that are
    just guesses at what it might look like.

    They are neat to look at but you have to keep in mind that they are only renderings. Unfortunately, as those "photos" get republished, or show up
    in search engines, the text mentioning that they are not actual photos is
    not included.

    Some actual photos are pretty boring, but others (like the Hubble DST
    photos) are pretty amazing.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Never draw fire, it irritates everyone around you.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, May 15, 2020 12:15:11
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Fri May 15 2020 06:56 am

    Boring? no. Bland? Maybe. Just the sheer fact that we're seeing it up close with the equivalent of a Nokia candy bar phone with a dish antenna, sensors, and a plutonium battery traveling at 20,000 miles an hour is pretty freaking awesome.

    Sometimes I wonder how they can get such a clear & sharp picture when it's traveling that fast, unless there isn't much relative motion between it and the object it's taking a picture of.

    On a similar note - As fast as the earth is rotating and moving through space, sometimes I'm surprised the stars appear to be motionless when we glance up at them.

    Nightfox

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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to Vk3jed on Friday, May 15, 2020 17:39:43
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: Vk3jed to Chickenhead on Thu May 14 2020 10:52 am

    Nice. They sound perfect for deep space work. Do you know the focal length of those telescopes?

    Deep space usually needs a wider aperture and shorter focal length than planetary imaging. That's because DSOs like nebulae and clusters are often both fainter (needing more light collected) and larger in terms of angular width (meaning less magnification needed).


    Both are F/10 but I've got an F/6 and F/3 focal reducer for my SCT. I don't think I even used the F/3 one. Come to think of it the Dobs could probably fit those focal reducers as well.

    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to Vk3jed on Friday, May 15, 2020 17:43:03
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: Vk3jed to Chickenhead on Thu May 14 2020 02:18 pm

    Nothing really beats Saturn, it is always spectacular through a telescope. Jupiter's not bad either, especially when its larger moons get into the act. :)

    I prefer the outer planets for my observing. Venus is just a tiny version of the Moon for my scope, although I've heard of very persistent amateur astronomers actually getting faint images of the cloud structure.


    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to Vk3jed on Friday, May 15, 2020 17:44:54
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronomers o
    By: Vk3jed to Chickenhead on Thu May 14 2020 02:27 pm

    http://www.maplecroft.ca/astro/m13-05-13-2020.jpg

    Not bad! :)


    Well I'm going to make myself a Hartmann mask this weekend for easier focusing.

    I think my favorite summer object is the Lagoon Nebula, although I'll have to wait until August for that one. Plenty of other things to image in the mean time...

    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to MRO on Friday, May 15, 2020 18:03:59
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 06:33 pm

    the real stuff is not awe inspiring. it's quite boring and bland.
    that's why they have artists draw them instead.

    Even through a really good telescope most objects can only be observed using "averted vision," as in using your peripheral vision...not directly. Some nice exceptions are globular clusters and the planets. Even then it's all monochrome....which is why I got into astrophotography to begin with.


    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Friday, May 15, 2020 20:21:11
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri May 15 2020 06:52 pm


    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.

    Cite your references, otherwise they'll delete it.

    i just make up references. works every time.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Friday, May 15, 2020 20:22:04
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Fri May 15 2020 08:12 am

    when does it stop being an actual photograph?

    that depends on what you are talking about... personally, i'm not aware of a official images that were originally a photo and someone painted over it to stuff... if you are, please post a link to it/them...



    you must be blind then. i've seen it hundreds of times.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Friday, May 15, 2020 20:23:00
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Fri May 15 2020 09:43 am

    Vk3jed>> References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    just going by what i've seen from nasa over the years.
    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.

    how about, right here in this topic, you drop links to official sources/imag that support your claim(s)? that would go a lot further than some wiki artic

    i just dont care enough to.
    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dumas Walker on Saturday, May 16, 2020 09:28:00
    On 05-15-20 11:50, Dumas Walker wrote to VK3JED <=-

    @VIA: VERT/CAPCITY2
    but when you take a little white dot and color in things that MIGHT/SHOULD be there but they arent visible to the eye or maybe they are visible.

    References. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    It is a fairly regular occurance to read an article about something
    that NASA/ESA/others have "seen" in the sky only to read the caption
    below the pictures to find out they are not real photos, or are photos that have been enhanced.

    Yes, but there's no conspiracy there. Those images are clearly labelled as "Artist's rendering", and the aim is to stimulate the viewer's imagination with something visual.

    Some are simply enhanced by using a different filter to take the photo.
    In my opinion, that is still a photo. Others are artist renderings

    I agree. Such false colour photos are often done to highlight features for scientific purposes.

    that are just guesses at what it might look like.

    Yes, but they are generally labelled as such.

    They are neat to look at but you have to keep in mind that they are
    only renderings. Unfortunately, as those "photos" get republished, or show up in search engines, the text mentioning that they are not actual photos is not included.

    That's not NASA's fault, so there's no conspiracy here. It's just uneducated masses on the Internet not reading the fine print. ;)

    Some actual photos are pretty boring, but others (like the Hubble DST photos) are pretty amazing.

    Yes, I find a lot of the space probe imagery quite spectacular.


    ... An instantaneous power-supply crowbar circuit will operate too late.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Saturday, May 16, 2020 09:45:00
    On 05-15-20 06:56, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to MRO <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    MRO wrote to Rampage <=-

    the real stuff is not awe inspiring. it's quite boring and bland.
    that's why they have artists draw them instead.

    That's our problem, not theirs. I remember being in awe seeing the
    photos Pioneer sent back from Jupiter - black and white photos with artifacts and scan lines.

    I didn't see a lot of Pioneer, bu the Voyager photos were simply amazing back in the day, and also the Viking photos from the surgace of Mars were quite interesting

    Boring? no. Bland? Maybe. Just the sheer fact that we're seeing it up close with the equivalent of a Nokia candy bar phone with a dish
    antenna, sensors, and a plutonium battery traveling at 20,000 miles an hour is pretty freaking awesome.

    I think Yoyager wasn't even that, mayby a high end 1980s calculator, and it's still working now!


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Saturday, May 16, 2020 09:48:00
    On 05-15-20 12:15, Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Sometimes I wonder how they can get such a clear & sharp picture when
    it's traveling that fast, unless there isn't much relative motion
    between it and the object it's taking a picture of.

    Distances are vast, though for long exposures, the camera may need to be moved slightly during the exposure, to keep the target in the same place. And there's also software that can "stack" frames and combine them with correlation algorithms. I've used such software in astrophotography to minimise the effects of atmospheric turbulence on planetary images.

    On a similar note - As fast as the earth is rotating and moving through space, sometimes I'm surprised the stars appear to be motionless when
    we glance up at them.


    Again, the large scale, but try looking through a telescope at high magnification! :)


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  • From Thumper@VERT/REALITY to calcmandan on Friday, May 15, 2020 22:34:56
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 12:08 am

    Rampage wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Wed May 13 2020 01:45:00


    you really don't understand how it works, then, if that's all you
    think is being done... they certainly do not "draw swirls and other
    bullshit"...

    calcmandan> Don't feed him.

    i'm not feeding him... he's playing ignorant and carrying on about artist renderings as if they are the only NASA/space pictures there are ;)

    artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands and thousands of other real photos are the real awe inspiring stuff...

    I know they're real but does it matter what game he's playing if the end res is trollery? When he threatened to kick my ass one day, which gave me a heal belly laugh, I realized that he's one to be ignored.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... s

    The silver lining to all of this is all of the facinating facts that have come out of all of the replys. I really enjoyed hearing about how the photos were taken and how they were layered back together. I for one enjoyed the discussion even if the guy is a troll or otherwise. Though I would have to agree that there needs to be a limit to the feedback. Now that he has been pointed out, we all know him for what he is. And the fact that he would treaten anyone speaks volumes alone about his character.

    So in short, thanks for all of the great information folks. :-)

    ---
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  • From Thumper@VERT/REALITY to Rampage on Friday, May 15, 2020 22:39:42
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to calcmandan on Thu May 14 2020 05:16 am

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Thu May 14 2020 00:08:00


    artist renderings are one thing but the thousands and thousands and
    thousands of other real photos are the real awe inspiring stuff...

    calcmandan> I know they're real

    yeah... that wasn't really directed at you, though... it was just a conclusi to the previous...

    calcmandan> but does it matter what game he's playing if the end result
    calcmandan> is trollery?

    i'm of two minds on this...

    1. don't feed the trolls
    2. don't allow false statements to live

    which brings forth the following...

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
    is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

    calcmandan> When he threatened to kick my ass one day, which gave me a
    calcmandan> healthy belly laugh, I realized that he's one to be ignored.

    :)


    )\/(ark

    Well stated. Whilst he may have an agenda, one should not merely stand by. At least within reason.

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Saturday, May 16, 2020 14:53:00
    On 05-15-20 17:39, Chickenhead wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Both are F/10 but I've got an F/6 and F/3 focal reducer for my SCT. I don't think I even used the F/3 one. Come to think of it the Dobs
    could probably fit those focal reducers as well.

    My telescope has a focal length of 750mm, which is really a bit short for planets. Something around 5x that would be a better starting point. I have used a Barlow lens to effectively increase the focal length, at the cost of some image resolution.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Saturday, May 16, 2020 15:02:00
    On 05-15-20 17:43, Chickenhead wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I prefer the outer planets for my observing. Venus is just a tiny
    version of the Moon for my scope, although I've heard of very
    persistent amateur astronomers actually getting faint images of the
    cloud structure.

    Venus can be a bit more interesting when it's closer. It's also a crescent at that time as well, but you're right, the outer planets are more interesting, especially Jupiter and Saturn.

    I have seen Uranus as a green dot, and tried to view Neptune, but that was under poor viewing conditions (too close to sunset and low in the western sky).


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Saturday, May 16, 2020 15:11:00
    On 05-15-20 17:44, Chickenhead wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Well I'm going to make myself a Hartmann mask this weekend for easier focusing.

    I'm not familiar with those.

    I think my favorite summer object is the Lagoon Nebula, although I'll
    have to wait until August for that one. Plenty of other things to
    image in the mean time...

    Looking forward to seeing what images you capture in a few months time.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Saturday, May 16, 2020 15:12:00
    On 05-15-20 20:21, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/BBSESINF
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri May 15 2020 06:52 pm


    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.

    Cite your references, otherwise they'll delete it.

    i just make up references. works every time.

    Not here it won't.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Friday, May 15, 2020 23:05:54
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat May 16 2020 09:48 am

    Sometimes I wonder how they can get such a clear & sharp picture
    when it's traveling that fast, unless there isn't much relative
    motion between it and the object it's taking a picture of.

    Distances are vast, though for long exposures, the camera may need to be moved slightly during the exposure, to keep the target in the same place. And there's also software that can "stack" frames and combine them with correlation algorithms. I've used such software in astrophotography to minimise the effects of atmospheric turbulence on planetary images.

    I'd think moving the camera during a long exposure could cause blur. But then, as you say, distances are vast and maybe it works.

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Saturday, May 16, 2020 18:10:00
    On 05-15-20 23:05, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'd think moving the camera during a long exposure could cause blur.
    But then, as you say, distances are vast and maybe it works.

    Not if the movement is setup to compensate for the movement of the spacecraft relative ro the planet.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Friday, May 15, 2020 19:45:00
    That's our problem, not theirs. I remember being in awe seeing the photos Pioneer sent back from Jupiter - black and white photos with artifacts and scan lines.

    I sometimes believe that Voyager, Pioneer, and the Mercury/Apollo programs
    were the zenith of human scientific accomplishment, and most of what else
    we've done since has just been crap in comparison.

    OK, I might throw Hubble in there, too.


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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Saturday, May 16, 2020 08:50:37
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Fri May 15 2020 20:22:04


    when does it stop being an actual photograph?

    Rampage>> that depends on what you are talking about... personally, i'm
    Rampage>> not aware of a official images that were originally a photo
    Rampage>> and someone painted over it to stuff... if you are, please
    Rampage>> post a link to it/them...

    you must be blind then. i've seen it hundreds of times.

    then post some links! if you can't/won't do that, then you're obviously lying...


    )\/(ark

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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Saturday, May 16, 2020 08:52:09
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Fri May 15 2020 20:23:00


    just going by what i've seen from nasa over the years.
    if you want i can make a wikipedia article and link it.

    Rampage>> how about, right here in this topic, you drop links to official
    Rampage>> sources/imag that support your claim(s)? that would go a lot
    Rampage>> further than some wiki artic

    i just dont care enough to.

    but you apparently care enough to continue posting about it this topic? mmmhummm...


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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Nightfox on Saturday, May 16, 2020 09:47:17
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Fri May 15 2020 23:05:54


    Distances are vast, though for long exposures, the camera may need
    to be moved slightly during the exposure, to keep the target in the
    same place. And there's also software that can "stack" frames and
    combine them with correlation algorithms. I've used such software in astrophotography to minimise the effects of atmospheric turbulence
    on planetary images.

    Nightfox> I'd think moving the camera during a long exposure could cause
    Nightfox> blur.

    it could/can... that's why you see stars as streaks when tracking a satellite which stays as a singular light source...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f76ETkcW8I

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJfA-UsEAdc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWOwaxLrRWc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sclc5iDyWjE


    or why you see satellites as streaks when you're tracking the stars...

    https://skyandtelescope.org/wp-content/uploads/Satellite-ISS-Big-Dipper-July-28_2017_ST.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXGMUwtCnU0

    https://www.cloudynights.com/uploads/monthly_06_2019/post-217561-0-09769600-1559437042.jpg

    http://www.starpointing.com/images/about/imageprocessing/satellites_large.jpg


    Nightfox> But then, as you say, distances are vast and maybe it works.

    it also depends on how you are moving the camera/scope... stepper motors are great... especially those that can do half and quarter steps ;)


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Saturday, May 16, 2020 06:33:00
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Boring? no. Bland? Maybe. Just the sheer fact that we're seeing it up close with the equivalent of a Nokia candy bar phone with a dish antenna, sensors, and a plutonium battery traveling at 20,000 miles an hour is pretty freaking awesome.

    Sometimes I wonder how they can get such a clear & sharp picture when
    it's traveling that fast, unless there isn't much relative motion
    between it and the object it's taking a picture of.

    On a similar note - As fast as the earth is rotating and moving through space, sometimes I'm surprised the stars appear to be motionless when
    we glance up at them.

    Scale, man... scale.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dumas Walker on Saturday, May 16, 2020 06:34:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    I sometimes believe that Voyager, Pioneer, and the Mercury/Apollo
    programs were the zenith of human scientific accomplishment, and most
    of what else we've done since has just been crap in comparison.

    New Horizons was pretty awesome, and it set a Solar system speed record!


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Saturday, May 16, 2020 12:29:00
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat May 16 2020 06:10 pm

    I'd think moving the camera during a long exposure could cause blur.
    But then, as you say, distances are vast and maybe it works.

    Not if the movement is setup to compensate for the movement of the spacecraft relative ro the planet.

    The movement of picking up the camera, moving it, and setting it back down would change the perspective just slightly and would cause some blur, I'd think. If you needed to move the camera to compensate for movement of a spacecraft, I'd think the best way would be to have the camera on a movable platform and have it be able to track the spacecraft somehow and move the camera exactly as needed.

    Nightfox

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  • From ryan@VERT/MONTEREY to MRO on Saturday, May 16, 2020 13:57:00
    Cite your references, otherwise they'll delete it.

    i just make up references. works every time.

    You've never made a wikipedia page, nor have you made bogus reference on a wikipedia page.

    If you have, prove it. Paste a link here.

    You have /not/ done this, your understanding of wikipedia and quality control is zero, and you're just bloviating as usual.

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Saturday, May 16, 2020 21:03:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    That's our problem, not theirs. I remember being in awe seeing the photos Pioneer sent back from Jupiter - black and white photos with artifacts and scan lines.

    I sometimes believe that Voyager, Pioneer, and the Mercury/Apollo
    programs were the zenith of human scientific accomplishment, and most
    of what else we've done since has just been crap in comparison.

    OK, I might throw Hubble in there, too.

    Your comment left me breathless. Either the press isn't covering these discoveries or they happen so often that people have grown blase about it.

    I'll list just a few probes that have provided continuously stunning results:

    Opportunity - The SUV on mars with a nuclear reactor. The chemistry it has been able to conduct on the sand, rock, atmosphere far exceeds any previously. They confirmed the existence of gypsum, among many other minerals. Gypsum is deposited by water. Of course, we can't forget the high resolution imagery and the fact that it navigated itself through a crater. It's delivery on Mars was unique in the way they used a hovering rocket and pulley system to lower it to the ground. Amazing!
    https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/

    Cassini-Huygens - The imagery captured by Cassini is still being studied today years after they were received. Huygens landed on Titan and gave us the first pictures from the surface of another planet's moon with a dense atmosphere. https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Cassini-Huygens

    New Horizons (Pluto Express) - It's obvious they didn't want to wait forty years for results like voyager. This thing is zooming through space. The press isn't really covering this probe much after it imaged Pluto. But I've been following the results of its encoutner with the Kuiper belt object named Arrokoth. How lucky they were to discover this object soon before the Pluto encounter that it was heading toward Arrokoth - the largest object in the solar system that has been directly imaged. And there's more opportunity for science discovery as it zooms out of the solar system. The second link goes into the mission's planned encounters with other objects.
    http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/ http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/Mission/Where-is-New-Horizons.php

    I could go on but I have things to do.

    Non-probe examples of fantastic imagery and scientific results:

    Hubble Ultra Deep Field - A ten day exposure. The farthest objects ever detected and the earliest detected galaxies known. This is the Hubble Deep Field site. If this is pure shit, then I don't know what to say. https://www.spacetelescope.org/science/deep_fields/

    Event Horizon Telescope - I don't know where to begin on what this achievement means and what it took in order to obtain the imagery of an accretion disc and area of event horizons of galactic central black holes. Imaging SagA* is difficult enough but M87? First video simply zooms in. The second represents different images, wavelengths, and telescopes used. The slight blur of the final outcome is due to constant movement of the objects in the imagery. There's nothing static about an accretion disc. https://eventhorizontelescope.org/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DILtg_9dcU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C628xyDN40o

    Planetary Nebulae - Fomalhaut has a debris disk that we have direct images of. For a number of years scientists were tracking Fomalhaut B in what they initially thought was a large planet. They were tracking its movement around the central star and recently noted that the object wasn't a planet after all but a major collision between two objects - the first of its kind imaged. To me this is a bit moer exciting than a planet. They tracked the growing plume of debris as it expanded and blended into the nebula. A link to the paper: https://www.pnas.org/content/117/18/9712

    Chandra XRay Telescope - Like hubble, this telescope is in space. The discoveries made and hypothesis confirmed are nothing less than astounding as it has been operating about twenty years. Its ability to zoom in and do xray images of objects known but to a detail not possible in visible light blows me away. Scientists can further study objects like Supernova 1987A, pulsars, colliding galaxies, it's own deep field, there's more. https://chandra.harvard.edu/

    ALMA - Part of the event horizon telescopt mentioned above. It's resolution and depth cannot be touched for the wavelengths it is designed to detect. It took images of proto-planetary discs around binary star systems, for instance. https://www.almaobservatory.org/en/home/

    Interstellar Objects - Scientists are probing the sky in search of Near Earth Objects that could collide and wreak havok of the Earth and the life on it (us). As a result, they detected a comet from another solar system that blazed through our system and out again. They managed to get photos of it and continue to study the object. The fact that they detected it was buzzing past is an achievement in its own right. The object is going FAST. This was the first object discovered hailing from another part of the galaxy and, who knows, it may have come from another galaxy or from an ancient galactic collision between ours and another we absorbed. We may never know where it came from. Recently, a discovery of more objects in our system that come from other systems and got trapped here. They're called Centaurs. Second link is the paper https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroids-comets-and-meteors/comets/oumuamua/in-depth/
    https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/494/2/2191/5822028

    I could go on all day but have things to do. Take care,

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to Vk3jed on Saturday, May 16, 2020 16:51:46
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronomers out there?
    By: Vk3jed to Chickenhead on Sat May 16 2020 03:02 pm

    Venus can be a bit more interesting when it's closer. It's also a crescent at that time as well, but you're right, the outer planets are more interesting, especially Jupiter and Saturn.

    I have seen Uranus as a green dot, and tried to view Neptune, but that was under poor viewing conditions (too close to sunset and low in the western sky).


    Yup, I've seen the green dot. Haven't seen Neptune yet though, but I haven't really tried too hard.


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  • From Chickenhead@VERT to Vk3jed on Saturday, May 16, 2020 16:53:00
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronomers o
    By: Vk3jed to Chickenhead on Sat May 16 2020 03:11 pm

    Well I'm going to make myself a Hartmann mask this weekend for easier focusing.

    I'm not familiar with those.

    It's a mask you put over the end of the scope to create a nice pattern that helps focusing...when you're in focus you get a nice and obvious diffraction pattern.

    Haven't tried it yet..still fighting with my printer to get it to print out an 11" pattern on two pieces of paper.

    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.

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  • From Jon Justvig@VERT/STEPPING to MRO on Saturday, May 16, 2020 13:28:40
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Fri May 15 2020 08:22 pm

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Fri May 15 2020 08:12 am

    you must be blind then. i've seen it hundreds of times.

    Being blind enhances other senses like my sense of humor. ;)

    -cr1mson

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to ryan on Saturday, May 16, 2020 21:28:00
    ryan wrote to MRO <=-

    Cite your references, otherwise they'll delete it.

    i just make up references. works every time.

    You've never made a wikipedia page, nor have you made bogus
    reference on a wikipedia page.

    If you have, prove it. Paste a link here.

    You have /not/ done this, your understanding of wikipedia and
    quality control is zero, and you're just bloviating as usual.

    Wow, I see you've recovered from your meltdown over in Fsxnet,
    which of course was caused by other people saying things like the
    above to people. You were so deeply offended by such things that
    you left the main chat echo over it.

    I guess it's OK when it's not in FSX, and it's *YOU* doing it?


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to VK3JED on Saturday, May 16, 2020 18:58:00
    That's not NASA's fault, so there's no conspiracy here. It's just uneducated masses on the Internet not reading the fine print. ;)

    If the fine print is included. :)

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Saturday, May 16, 2020 18:58:00
    I sometimes believe that Voyager, Pioneer, and the Mercury/Apollo programs were the zenith of human scientific accomplishment, and most
    of what else we've done since has just been crap in comparison.

    New Horizons was pretty awesome, and it set a Solar system speed record!

    Yes it was. I enjoyed the photos returned of the actual Ninth Planet. :)

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sunday, May 17, 2020 14:11:00
    On 05-16-20 12:29, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    The movement of picking up the camera, moving it, and setting it back

    Picking it up? on a spacecraft?

    Even on a backyard telescope, one would use a tracking mount for long exposures to compensate for the rotation of the Earth.

    down would change the perspective just slightly and would cause some
    blur, I'd think. If you needed to move the camera to compensate for movement of a spacecraft, I'd think the best way would be to have the camera on a movable platform and have it be able to track the
    spacecraft somehow and move the camera exactly as needed.

    Voyager did that, but later spacecraft didn't. Instead, they simply gradually rotated the spacecraft during the exposure, and separated the act of imaging from communication (the spacecraft has to reorient itself to point its antenna at Earth for transmission, after gathering the data.

    The problem with "scan platforms" is mechanical reliability after years in Space. Voyager 2's platform seized before the camera was finished with, and they had to resort to reorienting the probe instead.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Sunday, May 17, 2020 14:11:00
    On 05-16-20 16:51, Chickenhead wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yup, I've seen the green dot. Haven't seen Neptune yet though, but I haven't really tried too hard.

    One day. Neptune is the only one of the planets I haven't seen.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chickenhead on Sunday, May 17, 2020 14:12:00
    On 05-16-20 16:53, Chickenhead wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Well I'm going to make myself a Hartmann mask this weekend for easier focusing.

    I'm not familiar with those.

    It's a mask you put over the end of the scope to create a nice pattern that helps focusing...when you're in focus you get a nice and obvious diffraction pattern.

    Ahh OK, cool. :)

    Haven't tried it yet..still fighting with my printer to get it to print out an 11" pattern on two pieces of paper.

    Haha, OK. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Sunday, May 17, 2020 14:45:00
    On 05-16-20 21:03, calcmandan wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    Your comment left me breathless. Either the press isn't covering these discoveries or they happen so often that people have grown blase about
    it.

    I agree with you, there's been an amazing stream of space technology, especially in the area of robotic probes, but also the resulting discoveries as you say. And yes, a lot are not reported in the mainstream media these days, but definitely circulated online in space newsletters like Nasa's, or on space and science oriented websites.



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  • From ryan@VERT/MONTEREY to Gamgee on Sunday, May 17, 2020 00:07:00
    Wow, I see you've recovered from your meltdown over in Fsxnet,
    which of course was caused by other people saying things like the
    above to people. You were so deeply offended by such things that
    you left the main chat echo over it.

    I guess it's OK when it's not in FSX, and it's *YOU* doing it?

    My "meltdown" at fsxNet was met with a great deal of people chiming in
    support of killing political conversations because of how badly they derailed the entire network and community that existed just fine for years without it.

    You got triggered and got defensive and started lashing out, even though
    nobody called you out by name or anything.

    Who's the person that gets offended?

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 17, 2020 06:47:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Chickenhead <=-

    On 05-16-20 16:51, Chickenhead wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yup, I've seen the green dot. Haven't seen Neptune yet though, but I haven't really tried too hard.

    One day. Neptune is the only one of the planets I haven't seen.

    I can't imagine it being an easy feat on a consumer telescope. How big is your scope again? What type?

    I always wanted a schmidt-cassegrain.

    Daniel Traechin

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dumas Walker on Sunday, May 17, 2020 18:49:00
    On 05-16-20 18:58, Dumas Walker wrote to VK3JED <=-

    @VIA: VERT/CAPCITY2
    That's not NASA's fault, so there's no conspiracy here. It's just
    neducated
    masses on the Internet not reading the fine print. ;)

    If the fine print is included. :)

    Well, NASA included the fine print, it's not their fault, if someone else fails to pass it on.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Sunday, May 17, 2020 18:51:00
    On 05-17-20 06:47, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I can't imagine it being an easy feat on a consumer telescope. How big
    is your scope again? What type?

    Mine's a 6" Newtonian. I don't have the tracking motor, which does make things tricky, but at least it has an equatorial mount, so only one knob needs to be turned to keep up. :)


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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 17, 2020 08:30:36
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun May 17 2020 14:11:00


    The movement of picking up the camera, moving it, and setting it back

    Vk3jed> Picking it up? on a spacecraft?

    Vk3jed> Even on a backyard telescope, one would use a tracking mount for
    Vk3jed> long exposures to compensate for the rotation of the Earth.

    exactly... even a simple barndoor mount works great for this purpose...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GgCBxRoTQ


    )\/(ark

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to ryan on Sunday, May 17, 2020 09:24:00
    ryan wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Wow, I see you've recovered from your meltdown over in Fsxnet,
    which of course was caused by other people saying things like the
    above to people. You were so deeply offended by such things that
    you left the main chat echo over it.

    I guess it's OK when it's not in FSX, and it's *YOU* doing it?

    My "meltdown" at fsxNet was met with a great deal of people

    LOL, yeah if you consider 5-6 people a "great deal of people"...

    chiming in support of killing political conversations because of
    how badly they derailed the entire network and community that
    existed just fine for years without it.

    Yup, it was all just fine until "those right-wingers showed up",
    right? Your words, paraphrased.

    You got triggered and got defensive and started lashing out, even
    though nobody called you out by name or anything.

    That's a lie and you know it. I wasn't even involved, having
    stopped talking about political crap quite a while prior to you
    having a hissy fit and crying about it as you left.

    Who's the person that gets offended?

    I get offended by hypocrites who criticize others for the EXACT
    same thing that they do. Yeah.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 17, 2020 11:39:25
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Dumas Walker on Sun May 17 2020 06:49 pm

    On 05-16-20 18:58, Dumas Walker wrote to VK3JED <=-

    @VIA: VERT/CAPCITY2
    That's not NASA's fault, so there's no conspiracy here. It's just
    neducated
    masses on the Internet not reading the fine print. ;)

    If the fine print is included. :)

    Well, NASA included the fine print, it's not their fault, if someone else fa to pass it on.


    i'm not uneducated and there's no fine print. when i see an article from nasa the fucking photo is some artist rendering bullshit.


    i just pulled up the astronomy pic of the day

    https://i.imgur.com/7Nm0lts.jpg

    look at those star effects and other shit.

    you guys can shut the fuck up about this, you know i'm right.
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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Sunday, May 17, 2020 13:40:08
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Sun May 17 2020 11:39:25


    i just pulled up the astronomy pic of the day

    https://i.imgur.com/7Nm0lts.jpg

    sorry, that's not APOD... but you knew that... it is exactly one of those loose images posted without the associated text that describes the image...

    looking at that image, do you know what WISE and IRSA are? what they do and how they take their images?


    FWIW: the real APOD image is here with the proper writeup text...

    https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap190102.html

    and here, as well...

    https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap150119.html


    the associated text is:

    ----- snip -----

    The Orion Nebula in Infrared from WISE
    Image Credit: WISE, IRSA, NASA; Processing & Copyright : Francesco Antonucci

    Explanation: The Great Nebula in Orion is an intriguing place. Visible to the unaided eye, it appears as a small fuzzy patch in the constellation of Orion. But this image, an illusory-color four-panel mosaic taken in
    different bands of infrared light with the Earth orbiting WISE observatory, shows the Orion Nebula to be a bustling neighborhood of recently formed stars, hot gas, and dark dust. The power behind much of the Orion Nebula
    (M42) is the stars of the Trapezium star cluster, seen near the center of the featured image. The orange glow surrounding the bright stars pictured here is their own starlight reflected by intricate dust filaments that cover
    much of the region. The current Orion Nebula cloud complex, which includes the Horsehead Nebula, will slowly disperse over the next 100,000 years.

    ----- snip -----



    note the dates on those identical images, too ;)


    the real APOD site is here...

    https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/

    and today's picture is not even space related...


    )\/(ark

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    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sunday, May 17, 2020 11:25:53
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun May 17 2020 02:11 pm

    The movement of picking up the camera, moving it, and setting it
    back

    Picking it up? on a spacecraft?

    ? I thought we were talking about having a camera on the ground on earth, taking a long-exposure photo of a spacecraft or other body in space.

    Even on a backyard telescope, one would use a tracking mount for long exposures to compensate for the rotation of the Earth.

    Ah, I haven't done that kind of photography before, so I didn't know of such a thing.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sunday, May 17, 2020 18:27:00
    MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Dumas Walker on Sun May 17 2020 06:49 pm

    On 05-16-20 18:58, Dumas Walker wrote to VK3JED <=-

    @VIA: VERT/CAPCITY2
    That's not NASA's fault, so there's no conspiracy here. It's just
    neducated
    masses on the Internet not reading the fine print. ;)

    If the fine print is included. :)

    Well, NASA included the fine print, it's not their fault, if someone else fa to pass it on.


    i'm not uneducated and there's no fine print. when i see an article
    from nasa the fucking photo is some artist rendering bullshit.


    i just pulled up the astronomy pic of the day

    https://i.imgur.com/7Nm0lts.jpg

    That's a real image dude. It's layered with different wavelengths. That's not how it looks in visible light. It's all about education which you lack.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From ryan@VERT/MONTEREY to Gamgee on Sunday, May 17, 2020 12:16:00
    Yup, it was all just fine until "those right-wingers showed up",
    right? Your words, paraphrased.

    These are your words. I said nothing of the sort. Perhaps if you weren't so triggered or such a snowflake or whatever it is you accuse other people of being, you wouldn't have lashed out in defense of your easily offended sensibilities.

    That's a lie and you know it. I wasn't even involved, having
    stopped talking about political crap quite a while prior to you
    having a hissy fit and crying about it as you left.

    False - I posted about how fsxNet changed and how it was disappointing and
    you immediately knee jerk posted about how it was all the liberals' fault and even attacked someone else on fsxNet who wasn't even part of the conversation.

    I get offended by hypocrites who criticize others for the EXACT
    same thing that they do. Yeah.

    Didn't you tell me to mind my own business when you were attacking people? Am
    I to assume you offend yourself?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: monterey bbs
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Sunday, May 17, 2020 14:36:27
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Sun May 17 2020 01:40 pm

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Sun May 17 2020 11:39:25


    i just pulled up the astronomy pic of the day

    https://i.imgur.com/7Nm0lts.jpg

    sorry, that's not APOD... but you knew that... it is exactly one of those lo images posted without the associated text that describes the image...

    i typed in astronomy pic of the day.

    https://imgur.com/a/aCAFscq

    and that's what came up.

    i looked it up again and i see the pic changed.

    the real APOD site is here...

    https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/

    and today's picture is not even space related...

    is is where i got it https://imgur.com/a/aCAFscq


    i did another search and the photo changed to a geiser or some shit.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to ryan on Sunday, May 17, 2020 20:33:00
    ryan wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I get offended by hypocrites who criticize others for the EXACT
    same thing that they do. Yeah.

    Didn't you tell me to mind my own business when you were
    attacking people?

    Nope, and I wasn't attacking anyone. Stop lying.

    Am I to assume you offend yourself?

    Well, you do make a lot of assumptions... so, whatever.

    Better go find your safe space, Karen. You can't have a civil
    discussion, and when called out on it, you take your ball and run
    home. I don't have time to waste on snowflakes like you; don't
    bother replying.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From ryan@VERT/MONTEREY to Gamgee on Monday, May 18, 2020 02:35:00
    Nope, and I wasn't attacking anyone. Stop lying.

    You immediately lashed out at phoobar and called him by name.

    Better go find your safe space, Karen. You can't have a civil discussion, and when called out on it, you take your ball and run
    home. I don't have time to waste on snowflakes like you; don't
    bother replying.

    Says the guy who lashes out every time someone offends his sensibilities. Every. Single. Time.

    You are what you hate. Stop attacking other people and work on becoming a person you can respect.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: monterey bbs
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Rampage on Monday, May 18, 2020 19:00:00
    On 05-17-20 08:30, Rampage wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    exactly... even a simple barndoor mount works great for this purpose...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GgCBxRoTQ

    Arrrgh, why is everyone's goto thing a video?

    Not a good medium to reach me. :/


    ... BBSing's like sex, except for not wanting to get off.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Monday, May 18, 2020 19:02:00
    On 05-17-20 11:39, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i just pulled up the astronomy pic of the day

    https://i.imgur.com/7Nm0lts.jpg

    look at those star effects and other shit.

    WTF are you on about? Cameras can introduce a lot of odd effects. Optics aren't perfect.


    ... The computer made me do it!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Monday, May 18, 2020 19:06:00
    On 05-17-20 11:25, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/DIGDIST
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun May 17 2020 02:11 pm

    The movement of picking up the camera, moving it, and setting it
    back

    Picking it up? on a spacecraft?

    ? I thought we were talking about having a camera on the ground on
    earth, taking a long-exposure photo of a spacecraft or other body in space.

    The subject of long exposures in space came up.

    Even on a backyard telescope, one would use a tracking mount for long exposures to compensate for the rotation of the Earth.

    Ah, I haven't done that kind of photography before, so I didn't know of such a thing.

    Yes, manual telescopes with an equatorial mount often have an optional tracking motor that turns the scope at the correct rate on one axis. The scopes with the star finders should have tracking software included in the unit - dial up the object of interest or the coordinates and the computer does the rest. :)


    ... But the FACTS keep interfering with your theories!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Vk3jed on Monday, May 18, 2020 07:55:10
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to Rampage on Mon May 18 2020 19:00:00


    exactly... even a simple barndoor mount works great for this purpose...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GgCBxRoTQ

    Vk3jed> Arrrgh, why is everyone's goto thing a video?

    in this case, because it shows what a barndoor mount looks like and how it works...

    basically, a barndoor mount is two boards hinged together face-to-face at one end/side... there's generally a threaded screw/rod attached to one of the boards which pushes against the other board... this causes the boards to open and close like an open door flush against a wall and swinging away from the wall as the mount moves...

    eg:
    ______
    o__|___ closed


    /
    /
    / \ open
    o___\___


    the hinge axis is aligned with the pole and the whole set tilted to the offset of the latitude like aligning a telescope mount... then the threaded rod is turned at the proper speed for the hinge to open at the same rate the stars move (aka sidereal rate)...

    i've also seen some experiments of doing this using a water driven system where water was allowed to flow out of a container which lightened the weight of the container... instead of a screw, a push spring was used between the boards... as the water flowed out, the spring raised the moving board... that was a very fiddly setup so get the water flow right...


    so, for plain images, here's one...

    https://www.nutsvolts.com/uploads/wygwam/NV_0115_Wierenga_Figure_1.jpg

    the above image from this article...

    https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/january2015_Wierenga


    barndoor mounts are also known as scotch mounts... here's a pintrest with a bunch pinned...

    https://www.pinterest.com/markmoraes/barn-door-trackers-aka-scotch-mounts-for-simple-as/


    and another image...

    https://barndoor.space/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Barn-Door-Tracker-Mechanics-768x501.png

    from this article...

    https://barndoor.space/index.php/2018/04/11/how-does-a-barn-door-tracker-work/


    and yeah, this isn't directly aimed at you but more to provide more information to others following along ;)


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to MRO on Monday, May 18, 2020 07:00:58
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Sun May 17 2020 11:39 am

    MRO won't see this, because I've been on his Twitlist for quite some time, but the rest of you can do with this as you want.

    i'm not uneducated and there's no fine print. when i see an article from nasa the fucking photo is some artist rendering bullshit.

    i just pulled up the astronomy pic of the day

    https://i.imgur.com/7Nm0lts.jpg

    "Just pulled it up".. this was the APOD from January 19, 2015. And people say *I* live in the past.

    look at those star effects and other shit.

    here's the description.

    The Great Nebula in Orion is an intriguing place. Visible to the unaided eye, it appears as a small fuzzy patch in the constellation of Orion. But this image, an illusory-color four-panel mosaic taken in different bands of infrared light with the Earth orbiting WISE observatory, shows the Orion Nebula to be a bustling neighborhood of recently formed stars, hot gas, and dark dust. The power behind much of the Orion Nebula (M42) is the stars of the Trapezium star cluster, seen near the center of the above wide field image. The orange glow surrounding the bright stars pictured here is their own starlight reflected by intricate dust filaments that cover much of the region. The current Orion Nebula cloud complex, which includes the Horsehead Nebula, will slowly disperse over the next 100,000 years.


    you guys can shut the fuck up about this, you know i'm right.

    You're not even right in your example.

    DaiTengu

    ... The most delicate component will drop.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to ryan on Monday, May 18, 2020 08:12:00
    ryan wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Stop attacking other people and work on becoming a person you can
    respect.

    Which brings us right back around to the beginning of this
    thread... You tell me to stop "attacking other people", and
    yet... That's how I got into this conversation - by pointing out
    that *YOU* did it right here in this thread. Why can't you
    understand that??? Why is it perfectly OK for you to do that, but
    not someone else?

    Go back and look! Look at what you said to MRO, and pretend that
    it was me that said that. Would you get your panties all in a
    bunch over that, and call me out for "attacking" him? Huh?

    Can you answer that simple question right there above, without
    deflection or attempting to twist words around? Just answer it.


    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vk3jed on Monday, May 18, 2020 08:36:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Rampage <=-

    exactly... even a simple barndoor mount works great for this purpose...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GgCBxRoTQ

    Arrrgh, why is everyone's goto thing a video?
    Not a good medium to reach me. :/

    Often it's the best way to show something...
    You're using MultiMail, should be able to just click on the link
    above to get to the video.



    ... Would you like to wake up from this dream?
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Monday, May 18, 2020 17:49:14
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Mon May 18 2020 07:02 pm

    On 05-17-20 11:39, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i just pulled up the astronomy pic of the day

    https://i.imgur.com/7Nm0lts.jpg

    look at those star effects and other shit.

    WTF are you on about? Cameras can introduce a lot of odd effects. Optics aren't perfect.


    if you dont know what i'm on about keep mashing the fucking spacebar.

    i was talking about nasa's fake motherfucking 'photos'

    if you think that's real you are on crack
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 00:17:00
    MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Mon May 18 2020 07:02 pm

    On 05-17-20 11:39, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i just pulled up the astronomy pic of the day

    https://i.imgur.com/7Nm0lts.jpg

    look at those star effects and other shit.

    WTF are you on about? Cameras can introduce a lot of odd effects. Optics aren't perfect.


    if you dont know what i'm on about keep mashing the fucking spacebar.

    i was talking about nasa's fake motherfucking 'photos'

    if you think that's real you are on crack

    Facts don't care about your feelings. Everyone who attempted to explain it to you have been really patient. Your failure to understand it or grasp it is a different story.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From paulie420@VERT/PAULIE42 to Gamgee on Monday, May 18, 2020 18:01:13
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Gamgee to ryan on Mon May 18 2020 08:12 am

    ryan wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Stop attacking other people and work on becoming a person you can
    respect.

    Which brings us right back around to the beginning of this
    thread... You tell me to stop "attacking other people", and
    yet... That's how I got into this conversation - by pointing out
    that *YOU* did it right here in this thread. Why can't you
    understand that??? Why is it perfectly OK for you to do that, but
    not someone else?

    Go back and look! Look at what you said to MRO, and pretend that
    it was me that said that. Would you get your panties all in a
    bunch over that, and call me out for "attacking" him? Huh?

    Can you answer that simple question right there above, without
    deflection or attempting to twist words around? Just answer it.

    I'm ROFL over here.. I took up for Ryan on fsxNet, but for this one little bitty point - I got Gamgee's back....

    I see what yer pointing out, and its in plain text in that previous message. Even Trump is right some of the time. :P

    hahahhahaha

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to paulie420 on Monday, May 18, 2020 21:14:00
    paulie420 wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Go back and look! Look at what you said to MRO, and pretend that
    it was me that said that. Would you get your panties all in a
    bunch over that, and call me out for "attacking" him? Huh?

    Can you answer that simple question right there above, without
    deflection or attempting to twist words around? Just answer it.

    I'm ROFL over here.. I took up for Ryan on fsxNet, but for this
    one little bitty point - I got Gamgee's back....

    Well.... thanks!

    I see what yer pointing out, and its in plain text in that
    previous message. Even Trump is right some of the time. :P

    Yes, and... yes. ;-)



    ... She kept saying I didn't listen to her, or something like that.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From ryan@VERT/MONTEREY to Gamgee on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 01:25:00
    Which brings us right back around to the beginning of this
    thread... You tell me to stop "attacking other people", and
    yet... That's how I got into this conversation - by pointing out
    that *YOU* did it right here in this thread. Why can't you
    understand that??? Why is it perfectly OK for you to do that, but
    not someone else?

    MRO, the guy who says he wants to beat people in dovenet up, and regularly trolls people? Give me a break.

    Again, my post on fsxNet was about political discussions. It was
    /particularly/ about that. I mentioned how fsxNet was a completely different community before it became overrun with political posts (at which point I evidently triggered you since you lashed out at phoobar for some goofy reason
    I still can't wrap my mind around).

    Go back and look! Look at what you said to MRO, and pretend that
    it was me that said that. Would you get your panties all in a
    bunch over that, and call me out for "attacking" him? Huh?

    What you did is the equivalent of me replying to a post that had nothing at
    all to do with you, and then lashing out at you for no reason. And doing so when someone is talking about how things are vs how they used to be, actively trying to avoid an argument or have an honest discussion about the culture of
    a network.

    I don't think you'll see this as different. Alas. This is all I have patience to say on the matter, there's no way you and I will come to an agreement so we're at an impasse anyway. Go ahead and get your last word in with a reply, which I know you'll do.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: monterey bbs
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 05:10:07
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Mon May 18 2020 17:49:14


    look at those star effects and other shit.

    Vk3jed>> WTF are you on about? Cameras can introduce a lot of odd
    Vk3jed>> effects. Optics aren't perfect.

    i was talking about nasa's fake motherfucking 'photos'

    that image is as fake as you are, sir... it was done by stacking images from different projects... images taken with different filters to bring out specific gasses by their wavelengths which were then assigned different colors for each gas... this is no different than scanning a photo negative from a film camera and then processing that... the photos are real; the objects are real; the gasses are real... why is it so hard for you to understand this?

    you are much too smart to be this ignorant and throwing insults only weakens your arguments...


    )\/(ark

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Rampage on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 20:29:00
    On 05-18-20 07:55, Rampage wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GgCBxRoTQ

    Vk3jed> Arrrgh, why is everyone's goto thing a video?

    in this case, because it shows what a barndoor mount looks like and how
    it works...

    Unfortunately, I don't get a lot of time to watch them, especially in the evening, which is when I've been reading BBS mail lately.

    basically, a barndoor mount is two boards hinged together face-to-face
    at one end/side... there's generally a threaded screw/rod attached to
    one of the boards which pushes against the other board... this causes
    the boards to open and close like an open door flush against a wall and swinging away from the wall as the mount moves...

    Ahh ok, cool. :)

    the hinge axis is aligned with the pole and the whole set tilted to the offset of the latitude like aligning a telescope mount... then the threaded rod is turned at the proper speed for the hinge to open at the same rate the stars move (aka sidereal rate)...

    i've also seen some experiments of doing this using a water driven
    system where water was allowed to flow out of a container which
    lightened the weight of the container... instead of a screw, a push
    spring was used between the boards... as the water flowed out, the
    spring raised the moving board... that was a very fiddly setup so get
    the water flow right...

    Ahh OK, interesting. :)


    so, for plain images, here's one...


    https://www.nutsvolts.com/uploads/wygwam/NV_0115_Wierenga_Figure_1.jpg

    Cool



    ... I do not think it means what you think it means.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Gamgee on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 20:31:00
    On 05-18-20 08:36, Gamgee wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Often it's the best way to show something...
    You're using MultiMail, should be able to just click on the link
    above to get to the video.

    Actually, no you can't. Have to do a tedious copy/paste wit the mouse (not even keyboard shortcuts work in MM). But the bigger problem is having appropriate time when nothing else is playing to actually watch it!


    ... I'm not gonna lie to you. Heaven is a nice place. -Satan
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 20:33:00
    On 05-18-20 17:49, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    if you dont know what i'm on about keep mashing the fucking spacebar.

    i was talking about nasa's fake motherfucking 'photos'

    And yet you can't be assed offering decent, irrefutable evidence, just opinion, but we all know opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.


    ... Question of the day: xý + ¬xý - x = 16 [solve for x]
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vk3jed on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 08:14:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Often it's the best way to show something...
    You're using MultiMail, should be able to just click on the link
    above to get to the video.

    Actually, no you can't. Have to do a tedious copy/paste wit the
    mouse (not even keyboard shortcuts work in MM).

    Hmmmmm... It works for me. Middle-click on the link and browser
    (Firefox) opens (Linux).

    But the bigger problem is having appropriate time when nothing
    else is playing to actually watch it!

    I consider it a small part of the time I set aside for reading
    echomail. Granted, this fits only for short videos, or a quick
    look at a longer video to see if it's worth watching later.


    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Monday, May 18, 2020 04:42:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Rampage <=-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GgCBxRoTQ

    Arrrgh, why is everyone's goto thing a video?

    Not a good medium to reach me. :/

    Yeah, I'm reading my mail most days in DOSBOX; can't copy and paste very easily. While it's got its shortcomings, it has the benefit of making the
    BBS experience web-free.




    ... The robots can go off-script?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Gamgee on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 16:34:00
    On 05-19-20 08:14, Gamgee wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Hmmmmm... It works for me. Middle-click on the link and browser
    (Firefox) opens (Linux).

    Hmm, I'm reading on Windows, but will have to try that.

    But the bigger problem is having appropriate time when nothing
    else is playing to actually watch it!

    I consider it a small part of the time I set aside for reading
    echomail. Granted, this fits only for short videos, or a quick
    look at a longer video to see if it's worth watching later.

    Complicating factors:

    Free "air space" on my end - it's rare for something else not to be playing on here.

    Limited ability to put something aside for later. Instead, it gets forgotten. :/


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 16:36:00
    On 05-18-20 04:42, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Vk3jed wrote to Rampage <=-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GgCBxRoTQ

    Arrrgh, why is everyone's goto thing a video?

    Not a good medium to reach me. :/

    Yeah, I'm reading my mail most days in DOSBOX; can't copy and paste
    very easily. While it's got its shortcomings, it has the benefit of
    making the BBS experience web-free.

    I'm curious, why do you use DOSBox?

    As for me, I've found DOSBox to fill a few niches, but have to be careful with it.


    ... Go on, be yourself! There isn't anyone better qualified.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Vk3jed on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 07:54:00
    Vk3jed wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Hmmmmm... It works for me. Middle-click on the link and browser
    (Firefox) opens (Linux).

    Hmm, I'm reading on Windows, but will have to try that.

    I think it'll work, it's more of a MM feature I think, rather than OS-specific. Not sure why left-click doesn't work though.

    But the bigger problem is having appropriate time when nothing
    else is playing to actually watch it!

    I consider it a small part of the time I set aside for reading
    echomail. Granted, this fits only for short videos, or a quick
    look at a longer video to see if it's worth watching later.

    Complicating factors:

    Free "air space" on my end - it's rare for something else not to
    be playing on here.

    Understood... it's a matter of juggling events/priorities. ;-)


    ... Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 07:11:00
    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I'm curious, why do you use DOSBox?

    As for me, I've found DOSBox to fill a few niches, but have to be
    careful with it.

    My BBS message reading environment is almost identical to what it was in
    1994 - Qedit or VDE, a QWK offline reader (was BlueWave, now MultiMail). I like the full screen experience.

    For the editors, ctrl-K commands are built into my muscle memory.

    vDOS+ is an offshoot of DOSBOX, and the fonts look really good on a large screen.


    ... Towards the insignificant
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 18:35:18
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Tue May 19 2020 05:10 am

    i was talking about nasa's fake motherfucking 'photos'

    that image is as fake as you are, sir... it was done by stacking images from different projects... images taken with different filters to bring out speci gasses by their wavelengths which were then assigned different colors for ea


    you need to stop making excuses and smell what you are shoveling.

    do you see that star effect? that's from an image editor.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 18:36:02
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Tue May 19 2020 08:33 pm

    On 05-18-20 17:49, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    if you dont know what i'm on about keep mashing the fucking spacebar.

    i was talking about nasa's fake motherfucking 'photos'

    And yet you can't be assed offering decent, irrefutable evidence, just opini but we all know opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

    i just showed an image from the nasa website. pay attention.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 20:33:09
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Wed May 20 2020 18:35:18


    do you see that star effect? that's from an image editor.

    incorrect... that's from the lens or obstructions in the light path... i see them all the time in various incarnations... some are four spikes vertical and horizontal... others are rotated at varying degrees... depending on the mount used to hold a lens or mirror, there may be more or less than four... it all depends... when building a reflector scope, you do try to minimize them but they are still there... some reflector scopes use urved spiders to hold the secondary mirror to try to negate those spikes... refractors don't have them unless there's a problem with the lenses mounting...

    i even see them with my naked Mark I eyeballs when looking at various light emitting point entities like stars... that is because i have astigmitism in both eyes... one eye does three spikes of different lengths and angles and the other eye has four... when i look with both eyes, i see at least six spikes depending on how tired my eyes are...

    i'll repeat myself... that image is as fake as you are... seeing spikes on stars in images is not always an indication of editing and of them having been added... perhaps you should learn something about optics before assuming things not in evidence? ;)


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 20:33:59
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Wed May 20 2020 18:36:02


    i just showed an image from the nasa website. pay attention.

    no you didn't... you showed an image on imgur... an image with no provenance of its origin...


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 20:52:14
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Wed May 20 2020 08:33 pm

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Wed May 20 2020 18:35:18


    do you see that star effect? that's from an image editor.

    incorrect... that's from the lens or obstructions in the light path... i see

    https://i.imgur.com/iHchKse.png

    YEAH RIGHT.
    come on dude, start using your brain.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 20:53:01
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Wed May 20 2020 08:33 pm

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Vk3jed on Wed May 20 2020 18:36:02


    i just showed an image from the nasa website. pay attention.

    no you didn't... you showed an image on imgur... an image with no provenance its origin...


    i showed another image with the website, where it was from, etc etc

    quit being an autistic moron.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Gamgee on Thursday, May 21, 2020 13:39:00
    On 05-20-20 07:54, Gamgee wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I think it'll work, it's more of a MM feature I think, rather than OS-specific. Not sure why left-click doesn't work though.

    Yeah left click on here does didlly squat on a URL. It does work for clicking on dialigs though, so there is some mouse support.

    But the bigger problem is having appropriate time when nothing
    else is playing to actually watch it!

    I consider it a small part of the time I set aside for reading
    echomail. Granted, this fits only for short videos, or a quick
    look at a longer video to see if it's worth watching later.

    Complicating factors:

    Free "air space" on my end - it's rare for something else not to
    be playing on here.

    Understood... it's a matter of juggling events/priorities. ;-)

    Part of the air time issue is it can impact others, not just me. If it was just me, I wouldn't have given a rat's arse. :D


    ... Klingon vessel uncloaking....or is it Odo?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Thursday, May 21, 2020 13:42:00
    On 05-20-20 07:11, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    My BBS message reading environment is almost identical to what it was
    in 1994 - Qedit or VDE, a QWK offline reader (was BlueWave, now MultiMail). I like the full screen experience.

    Ahh, OK. :)

    For the editors, ctrl-K commands are built into my muscle memory.

    Yes, I still remember them, even though I've rarely used them in the last 15-20 years. :)

    vDOS+ is an offshoot of DOSBOX, and the fonts look really good on a
    large screen.

    Ahh OK, cool. What's VDOS+'s claim to fame over DOSBox?


    ... Say pistachios ... it's impolite to say nuts.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Thursday, May 21, 2020 13:43:00
    On 05-20-20 18:36, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i just showed an image from the nasa website. pay attention.

    No independent third party analysis, just an opinion, and that's worthless in this context.


    ... Anything good in life is either illegal, immoral, or fattening.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Thursday, May 21, 2020 06:14:54
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Wed May 20 2020 20:52:14


    do you see that star effect? that's from an image editor.

    Rampage>> incorrect... that's from the lens or obstructions in the light path... i see

    https://i.imgur.com/iHchKse.png

    "Causes of Diffraction: Diffraction is caused by one wave of light being shifted by a diffracting object. This shift will cause the wave to have interference with itself. Interference can be either constructive or destructive. When interference is constructive, the intensity of the wave will increase. When interference is destructive, the intensity will decrease, sometimes to a point where it is completely destroyed. These patterns of interference rely on the size of the diffracting object and the size of the wave." [1]


    "Why do the spikes that shoot out of stars form perfect crosses?

    The crossed spikes that you see in some images of stars are not actually parts of the stars. They are imaging artifacts that are created by the telescope itself and are called diffraction spikes. Certain telescopes have a large primary mirror that focuses the incoming beam of light onto a secondary mirror or a sensor that is held over the primary mirror. The secondary mirror diverts the light out of the telescope so it can be seen or further processed. Or, alternately, a sensor held above the primary mirror converts the image to an electrical signal that is delivered to a computer.

    The key point is that the secondary mirror or sensor must be held in place over the primary mirror by support rods which are in the way of the incoming light. These support rods are also called struts or vanes. Some of the starlight that enters the telescope and heads toward the primary mirror skims past the support rods and gets deflected slightly in the process. This deflection of light that skims past an obstruction is called diffraction. The diffraction caused by the support rods ultimately shifts light in the final image to places where it did not originally exist. For stars and other bright point sources of light, this shifted light pattern takes the form of radial spikes. When the support rods of a telescope's secondary mirror are built in a nice, symmetrical cross pattern, the diffraction spikes in the image of the star takes on the same cross pattern. A collection of support rods or vanes in a telescope is called a spider."[2]


    "Spider diffraction

    No spider, 3 and 4-vane spiders, curved vane spider.

    The thickness of the vane is the same for all spiders : 2% of the aperture diameter (but the mechanical stiffness would be quite different ...)

    Diffraction spreads the light in the direction orthogonal to the vanes. No spike is seen with the curved spider, the light beeing spread all around the star.

    The total amount of light inside the diffraction spikes is equal to the ratio between the front surface of the spikes and the aperture surface."[3]




    YEAH RIGHT.

    yes, absolutely...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=why+do+i+see+diffraction+spikes+in+star+images

    https://www.google.com/search?q=telescope+diffraction+spikes+"curved+spider"

    come on dude, start using your brain.

    the same can and is being said to you... i've had to actually deal with diffraction spikes when i built my telescope some years back... read, comprehend, do the math, understand, learn something new, and don't be a fool... it has been explained to you; examples, explanations, and the related math have been provided... now it is up to you to clear your ignorance... if you do that, great! if you do not, well, that tells us a lot about you...




    [1] https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction
    [2] https://wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2015/11/16/why-do-the-spikes-that-shoot-out-of-stars-form-perfect-crosses/
    [3] http://www.astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/instrument/sensitivity/spider-diffraction.htm


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Thursday, May 21, 2020 07:22:00
    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Ahh OK, cool. What's VDOS+'s claim to fame over DOSBox?

    It's meant more for business apps. Printing support, file locking and synchronization with the local file system - and long filename support.


    ... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Thursday, May 21, 2020 16:33:18
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Thu May 21 2020 01:43 pm

    On 05-20-20 18:36, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i just showed an image from the nasa website. pay attention.

    No independent third party analysis, just an opinion, and that's worthless i this context.


    whatever dude nasa website.
    so fuck off someplace else if you want to add your meaningless 2 cents
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Thursday, May 21, 2020 16:33:51
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Thu May 21 2020 06:14 am

    https://i.imgur.com/iHchKse.png

    "Causes of Diffraction: Diffraction is caused by one wave of light being

    image editor effect. seen it 1000 times. you are fucking blind if you think that shit is real.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, May 22, 2020 11:57:00
    On 05-21-20 07:22, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Ahh OK, cool. What's VDOS+'s claim to fame over DOSBox?

    It's meant more for business apps. Printing support, file locking and synchronization with the local file system - and long filename support.

    All features I could use, but what I really want is something that can run command line DOS apps without needing a terminal window of its own. Not sure if that exists. :( A DOS emulator that behaves like DOORWAY does for its screen output, except for using standard I/O on the Linux side, rather than serial. My application doesn't need any user input, it's just a batch job that needs to be run under certain conditions.


    ... Bar code - electronic device to help locate bars.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Friday, May 22, 2020 11:57:00
    On 05-21-20 16:33, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/BBSESINF
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Thu May 21 2020 01:43 pm

    On 05-20-20 18:36, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i just showed an image from the nasa website. pay attention.

    No independent third party analysis, just an opinion, and that's worthless i this context.


    whatever dude nasa website.
    so fuck off someplace else if you want to add your meaningless 2 cents

    You started this bullshit, so...


    ... Elvis has left the echo.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Friday, May 22, 2020 05:25:00
    Vk3jed wrote to MRO <=-

    On 05-21-20 16:33, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/BBSESINF
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Thu May 21 2020 01:43 pm

    On 05-20-20 18:36, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    i just showed an image from the nasa website. pay attention.

    No independent third party analysis, just an opinion, and that's worthless i this context.


    whatever dude nasa website.
    so fuck off someplace else if you want to add your meaningless 2 cents

    You started this bullshit, so...

    Everyone: *points at moon* pretty...
    MRO: It's fake! A painting it is. BAH wake up!
    Everyone: ... Nevermind

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to calcmandan on Friday, May 22, 2020 18:34:00
    On 05-22-20 05:25, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Everyone: *points at moon* pretty...
    MRO: It's fake! A painting it is. BAH wake up!
    Everyone: ... Nevermind

    *sings* "It's only a paper moon..." :D


    ... "Aw, mom, you act like I'm not even wearing a bungee cord!"
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Friday, May 22, 2020 08:17:09
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: MRO to Rampage on Thu May 21 2020 16:33:51


    https://i.imgur.com/iHchKse.png

    Rampage>> "Causes of Diffraction: Diffraction is caused by one wave of
    Rampage>> light being

    image editor effect. seen it 1000 times. you are fucking blind if
    you think that shit is real.

    i know it is real... i've seen it well over 1000 times in reflector telescopes using spiders to hold their secondary mirrors... did you even read what i posted?? did you even comprehend it?


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to Vk3jed on Friday, May 22, 2020 08:20:41
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 22 2020 11:57:00


    Vk3jed> what I really want is something that can run command line DOS
    Vk3jed> apps without needing a terminal window of its own. Not sure
    Vk3jed> if that exists. :( A DOS emulator that behaves like DOORWAY
    Vk3jed> does for its screen output, except for using standard I/O on
    Vk3jed> the Linux side, rather than serial. My application doesn't
    Vk3jed> need any user input, it's just a batch job that needs to be
    Vk3jed> run under certain conditions.

    DOSEmu does exactly this... especially when run via the sbbs dosemu setup... but maybe you're needing it to run directly from cron instead of from sbbs' timed events like the daily ones?


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Friday, May 22, 2020 16:40:09
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri May 22 2020 11:57 am

    this context.


    whatever dude nasa website.
    so fuck off someplace else if you want to add your meaningless 2 cents

    You started this bullshit, so...


    hello, nasa website. fuck off.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Rampage on Friday, May 22, 2020 16:40:37
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Rampage to MRO on Fri May 22 2020 08:17 am

    image editor effect. seen it 1000 times. you are fucking blind if
    you think that shit is real.

    i know it is real... i've seen it well over 1000 times in reflector telescop

    okay you are blind or an idiot.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Rampage on Saturday, May 23, 2020 14:45:00
    On 05-22-20 08:20, Rampage wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    DOSEmu does exactly this... especially when run via the sbbs dosemu setup... but maybe you're needing it to run directly from cron instead
    of from sbbs' timed events like the daily ones?

    No use to me, doesn't run on a Pi.

    And whatever I run, it would be from a shell script.


    ... Itisdifficulttobeverycreativewithonlyfiftysevencharacters
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Saturday, May 23, 2020 14:45:00
    On 05-22-20 16:40, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/BBSESINF
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri May 22 2020 11:57 am

    this context.


    whatever dude nasa website.
    so fuck off someplace else if you want to add your meaningless 2 cents

    You started this bullshit, so...


    hello, nasa website. fuck off.

    You love continuing this, so you wear it. :P


    ... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Saturday, May 23, 2020 08:47:00
    MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Fri May 22 2020 11:57 am

    this context.


    whatever dude nasa website.
    so fuck off someplace else if you want to add your meaningless 2 cents

    You started this bullshit, so...


    hello, nasa website. fuck off.

    At some point I mentioned something about feeding the resident troll.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Rampage on Saturday, May 23, 2020 09:29:00
    Rampage wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    ______
    o__|___ closed


    /
    /
    / \ open
    o___\___

    I never mentioned how cool it was that you created some ascii art to describe the mount. I thought that was really well done. I wish people do more of this or even utilize ansi art.

    That's one of the many things that makes this platform so cool to me.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to calcmandan on Saturday, May 23, 2020 09:02:49
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Sat May 23 2020 09:29:00


    ______
    o__|___ closed


    /
    /
    / \ open
    o___\___

    calcmandan> I never mentioned how cool it was that you created some ascii
    calcmandan> art to describe the mount. I thought that was really well done.

    thanks... i just threw it together... could have done a bit better but it served the purpose for something quick ;)

    i thought about making them a little larger and adding a box on top to represent the camera but... oh well...

    calcmandan> I wish people do more of this or even utilize ansi art.

    true... but some things take longer to do than they're worth, depending...

    calcmandan> That's one of the many things that makes this platform so cool
    calcmandan> to me.

    i've done it in email as well but the problem there is telling folks to be sure to use a monospaced font to view with... or doing it in html and remembering to use the "pre" tag (i think it is) and setting a decent font for that... at one time, i had most all of my GUI stuff using OCRA which worked decently for most things but was lacking in a few places...


    )\/(ark

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Djatropine@VERT/ENSEMBLE to calcmandan on Saturday, May 30, 2020 19:05:58
    Re: Re: Any Amateur Astronome
    By: calcmandan to Rampage on Sat May 23 2020 09:29 am

    ______
    o__|___ closed


    /
    /
    / \ open
    o___\___

    I never mentioned how cool it was that you created some ascii art to describe the mount. I thought that was really well done. I wish people do more of this or even utilize ansi art.

    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

    Ohhh ascii /ansi/petsci/etc. is soulful.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Djatropine on Sunday, May 31, 2020 18:09:00
    Djatropine wrote to calcmandan <=-


    Ohhh ascii /ansi/petsci/etc. is soulful.

    Yessir, it is.

    Daniel Traechin
    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com