what are your predictions forthe next decade?
On 07-08-19 12:41, Nightfox wrote to The Millionaire <=-
what are your predictions forthe next decade?
That's a very open question.. One thing is self-driving cars, and I've heard other people say this too, there may be a day when a law is
passed requiring all cars on the road to be self-driving, for safety reasons (eliminating the human element, including drunk drivers and
human error, etc.). It seems that may well happen, maybe in the next decade, maybe beyond. Also, if self-driving cars become more and more common, I've heard people say some people might opt to not own a car at all, and call a self-driving taxi when they need to get somewhere.
Self driving cars are definitely coming. There will probably be a few generations of them, each with increasing capabilities, especially when away from the big cities and major highways.
I also suspect there will be the occasional bugs, but these will be resolved quickly by the manufacturers. Some of these may cause fatalities, but like air travel, overall, the roads will be safer when the majoprity of cars are self driving.
On 07-09-19 09:52, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've been hearing about them for quite a while now. I had heard Google had some self-driving test cars out on the road, and I think I've heard Toyota has some too. I thought they were still in a testing/trial
phase, but every so often I hear about a company actually selling
self-driving cars now. I've also heard of a couple instances where a
self-driving car has made a mistake and crashed and possibly injured someone. With self-driving cars, there's the issue of liability, which will be an issue for insurance companies and proving who's at fault in
an accident (the driver or the car maker).
self-driving cars now. I've also heard of a couple instances where a
There's several levels of "self driving", but only one is the full automation that most people associate with the term. Can't recall where I read it, otherwise I'd send a link.
On 07-10-19 00:39, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-
i would like to see a cheap car that's entirely automated. like real cheap. nothing fancy.
also i think all cars need to be safer. they should be built like
bumper cars and have the body easy to swap out.
MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-
i would like to see a cheap car that's entirely automated. like real cheap. nothing fancy.
Vk3jed wrote to MRO <=-
Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.
also i think all cars need to be safer. they should be built like bumper cars and have the body easy to swap out.
Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.
MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-
i would like to see a cheap car that's entirely automated. like real cheap. nothing fancy.
Yeah, the computer hardware would be cheap. Tons of batteries,
electric-only (less moving parts) and a roomy hatchback body paired
with a low cost would sell well.
R&D would be spendy - imagine seeing a blue screen of death on your
nav console because they built a real-time driving system on Windows!
Vk3jed wrote to MRO <=-
Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.
Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.
On 07-10-19 06:33, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/REALITY
Vk3jed wrote to MRO <=-
Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.
Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.
On 07-10-19 09:48, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
For safety, I think it would really help if all cars on the road are self-driving. That way, they can be more predictable for less risk of accidents. Self-driving cars could even communicate with each other wirelessly to help avoid accidents.
However, I still think there are some roads & pathways people might
want to go where a self-driving car might have trouble. If someone
wants to drive off the main roadway and into the forest or to the
beach, for example, I'm wondering if a self-driving car could navigate where they want to go.
I don't think they want to make cars easy to work on. They want you to bring it into their shop so they can make more money on repairs.
Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.
yeah if i get a dent on my bumper that's 1,000 usd
It's getting silly. I need to replace the spark plugs in my 2014 Prius, something I'm perfectly capable of doing. Only problem is, they tilted the plugs 60 degrees back towards the firewall, so you need to remove the windshield wipers and the fascia to get to them!
They could have easily tilted them the other way to allow for easy replacement.
I miss the 1977 Rabbit I drove when I lived in San Francisco. Big ass chrome bumpers with a thick rubber strip down the middle.
I don't think they want to make cars easy to work on. They want you to bring it into their shop so they can make more money on repairs.
Re: Re: 2020
By: Vk3jed to MRO on Wed Jul 10 2019 06:49 pm
Safety is importantant, and today's cars are a lot safer than previous models. And going driverless will certainly increase safety overall.
For safety, I think it would really help if all cars on the road are self-driving. That way, they can be more predictable for less risk of accidents. Self-driving cars could even communicate with each other wireles to help avoid accidents.
However, I still think there are some roads & pathways people might want to where a self-driving car might have trouble. If someone wants to drive off main roadway and into the forest or to the beach, for example, I'm wondering a self-driving car could navigate where they want to go.
Nightfox
I used to work with the guys at GM who figured out how to fix everything into the engine compartment.
The reason cars are hard to work on is because cars are much more complicated due to emissions and fuel efficiency requirements pushed onto the car manufacturers by the gov't.
Re: Re: 2020
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 10 2019 03:59 pm
Yeah, but the cost of repair has skyrocketed.
yeah if i get a dent on my bumper that's 1,000 usd
I miss the 1977 Rabbit I drove when I lived in San Francisco. Big ass chrome bumpers with a thick rubber strip down the middle.
I got rear-ended in my prius, and a scratch on the bumper was $1200.
I miss the 1977 Rabbit I drove when I lived in San Francisco. Big ass chrome bumpers with a thick rubber strip down the middle.
The older cars were a lot easier to work on and fix.. I had a 1996 Geo Prizm (basically a Toyota Corolla) for a little while, and changing the oil in that car was very easy. I didn't even have to jack it up if I didn't want to. I could fit an oil pan under it and drain the oil without jacking up the front of the car, and the oil filter was just below the middle front of the engine, so I could easily reach down from the top and unscrew the oil filter and screw in a new oil filter. An oil change took about 10-15 minutes with that car (depending on how long it took to drain the old oil).
The reason cars are hard to work on is because cars are much more complicated due to emissions and fuel efficiency requirements pushed onto the car manufacturers by the gov't.
difficult to replace the spark plugs in his car's engine because of the way the engine is facing. And with some cars, it's more difficult to change the oil than other cars.. I know cars are more complicated these days, but I'd think some maintenance tasks could still be made easy. Changing spark plugs, oil, filters, fluids, etc. should be easy IMO, as those are fairly regular maintenance tasks.
I doubt that's the only reason. I think some things on a car could still be made easy to work on. For instance, Poindexter Fortran recently said it's difficult to replace the spark plugs in his car's engine because of the way the engine is facing. And with some cars, it's more difficult to change the oil than other cars.. I know cars are more complicated these days, but I'd think some maintenance tasks could still be made easy. Changing spark plugs, oil, filters, fluids, etc. should be easy IMO, as those are fairly regular maintenance tasks.
it's just poor design by engineers.
on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery.
some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.
For fuel efficienty, weight is a big factor. That means less room for things. They have to really pack things in - which often puts oil filters and spark plugs in inconvienent places. But remember that you don't need to change those things as often compared to old cars.
I remember the guys at GM. They got an engine from Engineer 1 and then the engine compartment from Engineer 2, then they had to figure out how combine them - and work with both engineers to make it happen. Much swearing occured.
The reason cars are hard to work on is because cars are much more complicated due to emissions and fuel efficiency requirements pushed onto the car manufacturers by the gov't.
On 07-11-19 17:07, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-
@VIA: VERT/DIGDIST
Re: Re: 2020
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:08 pm
on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery.
some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.
I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was
Re: Re: 2020
By: MRO to Dr. What on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:07 pm
it's just poor design by engineers.
It's the best design that they are ALLOWED to make based on the artificial constraints given to them by non-engineers and bureaucrats.
Re: Re: 2020
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:08 pm
on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery. some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.
I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weird..
Nightfox
I love watching Wheeler Dealers when they're working on an old car. Engine running front to back, spark plugs running to a distributor off of the
on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery.
some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reaches all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.
Seems odd that they'd need to cram things together tightly to reduce weight. I know smaller cars are lighter, but it seemed like older cars (up to the late 80s or so) were lighter than today's cars and often didn't need to be very cramped.
They didn't work together on that?
I love watching Wheeler Dealers when they're working on an old car. Engine running front to back, spark plugs running to a distributor off of the engine, coil bolted to the firewall, a cable running from the gas pedal to a carburator, a fan belt connecting the alternator, etc... And nothing extraneous.
I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weird..
Seems odd that they'd need to cram things together tightly to reduce
weight. I know smaller cars are lighter, but it seemed like older cars
(up to the late 80s or so) were lighter than today's cars and often
didn't need to be very cramped.
More metal = more weight. Older cars were significantly heavier.
They didn't work together on that?
We're talking large corporations here. "Work together"? What's that?
I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was
weird..
With a front-wheel drive car, it helps with weight distribution.
Yup. Had one of those. The battery is in the trunk because there was no room in the front - without having to resort to having to take the wheel off to change the battery.
It's not stupidity. It's having to work with constraints that they are given - often by people who are not engineers.
I remember working with my grandfather on cars (he was a master mechanic). The old ones were so simple to work on. My mom's car was a Ford Model A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an emissions test today.
Yup. Had one of those. The battery is in the trunk because there was no room in the front - without having to resort to having to take the wheel off to change the battery.
It's not stupidity. It's having to work with constraints that they are given - often by people who are not engineers.
The old ones were so simple to work on. My mom's car was a Ford Model A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an emissions test today.
Re: Re: 2020
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri Jul 12 2019 11:18 am
I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was
weird..
With a front-wheel drive car, it helps with weight distribution.
Even most front-wheel drive cars I've seen have a battery in the front near the engine. I've also heard that having more weight on the drive wheels helps with traction.
When most cars (that I've seen anyway) have the battery in the engine compartment, it seems weird to have the battery in the trunk or somewhere else. It doesn't seem like a common necessity to have the battery somewhere else.
Re: Re: 2020
By: Dr. What to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Jul 12 2019 12:59 pm
I remember working with my grandfather on cars (he was a master mechanic). The old ones were so simple to work on. My mom's car was a Ford Model A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an emissions test today.
Some places don't even do emissions testing. I live in an area that has done car emissions testing for years, but a while ago I found out that some neighboring counties nearby don't do emissions testing.
in my state they used to get accurate tests by putting a hose on your pipe. now they just jack it in your car computer.
who knows if that even works right.
nope it's stupidity. i have a fucking compact car and my battery is setup fine. because it's an asian car and not made by some shit american company.
stupid engineering.
A 1931. Not a whole lot to that car. But it wouldn't pass an
emissions test today.
older cars are usually exempt from emissions testing.
sensor data. Maybe cars these days have sensors reading the car's emissions.. But I'd think they'd still be able to get accurate readings by putting a hose on your exhaust pipe. A car's sensors could be faulty, and you can also get an OBD2 code reader and clear any error codes before going to get your car's emissions tested.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
i think the emissions test is total bs now and it's done by gas
stations now.
Re: Re: 2020
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Jul 11 2019 05:07 pm
Re: Re: 2020
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Jul 11 2019 04:08 pm
on some cars you need to take off the tire to take out the battery. some cars have the battery in a compartment in the trunk and it reac all the way to the front. it's stupid engineers.
I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weir
Nightfox
my friend's car was like that. and there were jump posts under the hood.
I've seen some cars with the battery in the trunk and thought it was weir
Nightfox
my friend's car was like that. and there were jump posts under the hood.
I work for a major automobile battery manufacturer (they like nascar alot). Trust me, where to put the battery in the car is likely one of the last things given to the designers and engineers to figure out. One of the newest, worst examples, is the new Ford Escapes, and Focus. The entire air intake assembly needs to be removed just to get the battery out of the
When most cars (that I've seen anyway) have the battery in the engine compartment, it seems weird to have the battery in the trunk or somewhere else. It doesn't seem like a common necessity to have the battery somewhere else.
Some places don't even do emissions testing. I live in an area that has done car emissions testing for years, but a while ago I found out that some neighboring counties nearby don't do emissions testing.
Funny thing is, although American cars might be designed in the US, some American cars are built in other countries (there are factories in Mexico for some of them, for instance). And some foreign auto brands have factories in the US. I know Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, and BMW have manufacturing factories in the US, and others might too.
i think the emissions test is total bs now and it's done by gas stations now.
last things given to the designers and engineers to figure out. One of the newest, worst examples, is the new Ford Escapes, and Focus. The entire air intake assembly needs to be removed just to get the battery out of the
How would I "jump" the car if I needed to? Are you saying those cars have no way to do battery maintainence? Are these "disposible" batteries or something? I know the newer batteries are sealed but you used to be able to get to the connections on them in case they got coroded. My spell checker is of no use to me right now. I know some words are spelled wrong. I need a solution darn it! ;-)
The only emissions testing done outside of that is by areas that want people to
keep their cars maintained propertly to keep the emissions down.
How would I "jump" the car if I needed to? Are you saying those cars have in case they got coroded. My spell checker is of no use to me right now. I k
It's not done by gas stations here.. Where I am, the emissions testing is doneYea, most of Oregon's regulations happen like a year after the People's Republic of California does it. Portland makes Oregon crap. I had to get
by DEQ stations (DEQ = Department of Environmental Quality), and we have to get
our emissions tested every 2 years, and they give us our updated license plate
tabs when our car passes.
I can see, at least for awhile, the ability to have an older non-self driv car retrofitted with self driving equipment. This would help bring it mor into the main stream as most people can't afford to go buy the latest and greatest car. Also people who want to work on their own cars aren't hinde
Most likely a "manual" mode will be present for a long time, possibly indefinately. There'll be lots of situations where people will want to dr
It's not done by gas stations here.. Where I am, the emissions
testing is done by DEQ stations (DEQ = Department of Environmental
Quality), and we have to get our emissions tested every 2 years, and
they give us our updated license plate tabs when our car passes.
Yea, most of Oregon's regulations happen like a year after the People's Republic of California does it. Portland makes Oregon crap. I had to get the smog test as well last month.
Most likely a "manual" mode will be present for a long time, possibly indefinately. There'll be lots of situations where people will want to dr
I think this will be niche, I foresee most vehicles coming with no method of manual control. No steering wheel, no mirrors, no pedals, and perhaps no "front" or "back" as the car could travel in either direction.
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