• Lootboxes

    From Bigbangnet@VERT/MTLGEEK to DOVE-Net.General on Friday, December 29, 2017 21:55:48
    Hello all,

    Lets start a discussion and probably some flamewars, word fighting and probably make some men (behind keyboards) cry. Hehe.

    With all the lootboxes controversy going this year. Let say EA really
    helped with their release of Battlefront 2. They really pushed the
    boundaries and limits of gamers on their wallets and how much should
    they spend on games. NOT to my surprise, gamers around didn't love. I
    didn't too. To be honest I'm surprised EA did it since its the first
    time they did use lootboxes and used it in their game design. I mean
    integrate it in their game system using cards and other items and such.
    In other words making this game some kind of gambling system. Remove the graphics and keep the lootboxes and you got a slot gambling machine to
    be honest.

    In my opinion, they should remove the whole lootbox system and make it
    illegal for companies to use it in games. My reason behind it is very
    simple, a lot of people are stupid and weak minded. A lot are just weak
    when they are in front of a situation which will give a reward based on
    your task you do. Just to be clear search on Google for the Skinner box effect". Its a damn fucking shady method that game developers uses
    against gamers. Its an old thing...its not new. Its related to the human behavior and the results can be really devastating when used against a
    weak minded person... like gamers unfortunately.

    What I'm surprised to find out is that theres almost no complains in the general public or some kind of outcry (like BF2) for GTA:Online.
    Everything is there. Of course its not lootboxes but the whole game is
    based on microtransaction. Rockstar admitted to not even make single
    player content or even barely any multiplayer online content because its
    not making them enough cash or profit.

    Look at their patches, all of them contains items which you have to
    spend credits. After a patch is out, they get a discount on their "shark cards" which you can spend real money to get in game credits...

    Conclusion: fuck microtransactions, fuck R*, fuck EA... damn it. Sounds
    like I'll stick to indy games or other similar games that doesnt have
    any loot boxes.

    Oh yeah, I almost forget, games like Overwatch which includes lootboxes
    goes into my rant as well. Yes they only contain cosmetic but it starts
    there as well. Its still a gambling system.

    Anyways, flame on, discuss. Idk. I wanted to get this out here.

    --
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  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Bigbangnet on Saturday, December 30, 2017 09:17:10
    Re: Lootboxes
    By: Bigbangnet to DOVE-Net.General on Fri Dec 29 2017 21:55:48

    With all the lootboxes controversy going this year. Let say EA really
    helped with their release of Battlefront 2. They really pushed the boundaries and limits of gamers on their wallets and how much should
    they spend on games. NOT to my surprise, gamers around didn't love. I
    didn't too. To be honest I'm surprised EA did it since its the first
    time they did use lootboxes and used it in their game design. I mean integrate it in their game system using cards and other items and such.
    In other words making this game some kind of gambling system. Remove the graphics and keep the lootboxes and you got a slot gambling machine to
    be honest.

    I haven't done any modern gaming in so long, I didn't realize that AAA games were starting to have microtransactions as part of the game play. Sad day...

    In my opinion, they should remove the whole lootbox system and make it illegal for companies to use it in games. My reason behind it is very simple, a lot of people are stupid and weak minded. A lot are just weak
    when they are in front of a situation which will give a reward based on
    your task you do. Just to be clear search on Google for the Skinner box effect". Its a damn fucking shady method that game developers uses
    against gamers. Its an old thing...its not new. Its related to the human behavior and the results can be really devastating when used against a
    weak minded person... like gamers unfortunately.

    I have noticed the use of microtransacrions long back when I was on Facebook and playing some their games. It's one thing when you pay to get a boost in the game; it's another when a microtransaction is required to continue progressing in it. I'm not a fan of microtransactions, and I'm too cheap to dump money into a game. I play games to be entertained and to work for it on my own, and not dump money to "cheat" my way through. I hadn't come across any games that requires a microtransaction to make any progress; if I do, I'm done with it. I guess that's coming from an era of demos and shareware. Sadly, my wife is caught up in these microtransactions and I see it draining our bank account very slowly.

    Conclusion: fuck microtransactions, fuck R*, fuck EA... damn it. Sounds
    like I'll stick to indy games or other similar games that doesnt have
    any loot boxes.

    I agree, I can do without the microtransactions. I only want to pay for it once and be done with it. With games, I expect to have the full thing after it's been paid for. I do make an exception with Microsoft Office 360 (latest version of Microsoft Office, up to 5 users, and 1TB of cloud storage per user [worth it]) and Adobe Photoshop (kind of the same thing, but with only 20GB and one user). I guess that's where I make an exception: if I can get some extra benefit when I make constant payments and getting a service, then I would. If it is just to make it through the game and I don't get any extra benefit, then I can get entertainment else where.

    -jag
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Bigbangnet on Thursday, January 04, 2018 13:28:18
    Re: Lootboxes
    By: Bigbangnet to DOVE-Net.General on Fri Dec 29 2017 09:55 pm

    With all the lootboxes controversy going this year. Let say EA really helped with their release of Battlefront 2. They really pushed the boundaries and limits of gamers on their wallets and how much should
    they spend on games. NOT to my surprise, gamers around didn't love. I didn't too. To be honest I'm surprised EA did it since its the first
    time they did use lootboxes and used it in their game design. I mean integrate it in their game system using cards and other items and such. In other words making this game some kind of gambling system. Remove the graphics and keep the lootboxes and you got a slot gambling machine to
    be honest.

    Lately I haven't been gaming as much as I used to.. I hadn't heard about this lootbox issue.

    Nightfox

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Friday, January 05, 2018 05:46:36
    Hello Nightfox,

    On Thu Jan 04 2018 13:28:18, Nightfox wrote to Bigbangnet:

    Lately I haven't been gaming as much as I used to.. I hadn't heard
    about this lootbox issue.

    You haven't been gaming much for awhile then. Call of Duty has had this in place for the past 2-3 years. Just making gamers spend more money with in-game purchases than the initial purchase of the game, really. Quite comparable to free Google Play or Apple Store games (with in-game purchses), except you still
    have to pay $60 for these PC and/or console games, then have in-game purchases on top of that.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Accession on Friday, January 05, 2018 08:59:54
    Re: Lootboxes
    By: Accession to Nightfox on Fri Jan 05 2018 05:46 am

    You haven't been gaming much for awhile then. Call of Duty has had this in place for the past 2-3 years. Just making gamers spend more money with in-game purchases than the initial purchase of the game, really. Quite comparable to free Google Play or Apple Store games (with in-game purchses), except you still have to pay $60 for these PC and/or console games, then have in-game purchases on top of that.

    I've seen some in-game purchases in some games. Just seems like a way for them to make more money. For a similar reason, I never got into online games where you had to pay a monthly fee (like World of Warcraft). I prefer to just pay the one-time fee to buy the game and play it whenever I want.

    Nightfox

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Accession on Friday, January 05, 2018 10:47:00
    Re: Lootboxes
    By: Accession to Nightfox on Fri Jan 05 2018 05:46 am

    Hello Nightfox,

    On Thu Jan 04 2018 13:28:18, Nightfox wrote to Bigbangnet:

    Lately I haven't been gaming as much as I used to.. I hadn't heard about this lootbox issue.

    You haven't been gaming much for awhile then. Call of Duty has had this in place for the past 2-3 years. Just making gamers spend more money with in-game purchases than the initial purchase of the game, really. Quite comparable to free Google Play or Apple Store games (with in-game purchses), except you still
    have to pay $60 for these PC and/or console games, then have in-game purchases on top of that.

    I play CoD (WWII most recently) for Xbox One and I've never paid for any additional content. Well, maybe I bought DLC maps long ago, but not for many years.

    digital man

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Friday, January 05, 2018 13:29:46
    Hello Nightfox,

    On Fri Jan 05 2018 08:59:54, Nightfox wrote to Accession:

    You haven't been gaming much for awhile then. Call of Duty has
    had this in place for the past 2-3 years. Just making gamers
    spend more money with in-game purchases than the initial purchase
    of the game, really. Quite comparable to free Google Play or
    Apple Store games (with in-game purchses), except you still have
    to pay $60 for these PC and/or console games, then have in-game
    purchases on top of that.

    I've seen some in-game purchases in some games. Just seems like a way
    for them to make more money. For a similar reason, I never got into online games where you had to pay a monthly fee (like World of
    Warcraft). I prefer to just pay the one-time fee to buy the game and
    play it whenever I want.

    And you can still do that with most PC and/or console games. It's just the urge
    you get to spend more money on the game than you already have is what has gamers in such an uproar apparantly. Or they don't get exactly what they want whey they do buy in-game stuff.

    I don't care, really. If the game is worth it, I'll spend the money and not feel guilty about it. ;)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Digital Man on Friday, January 05, 2018 22:51:40
    Hello Digital,

    On Fri Jan 05 2018 10:47:00, Digital Man wrote to Accession:

    You haven't been gaming much for awhile then. Call of Duty has had
    this in place for the past 2-3 years. Just making gamers spend more
    money with in-game purchases than the initial purchase of the
    game, really. Quite comparable to free Google Play or Apple Store
    games (with in-game purchses), except you still have to pay $60 for
    these PC and/or console games, then have in-game purchases on top
    of that.

    I play CoD (WWII most recently) for Xbox One and I've never paid for
    any additional content. Well, maybe I bought DLC maps long ago, but
    not for many years.

    Oh I know. I've played plenty of games without doing in-game purchases. I'm actually one of the few wondering why the hell gamers are so upset about all this. The game developers just want to make more money, and they found a hell of a way! Gamers are just mad their bank accounts are dwindling because they're
    suckers, is all. ;)

    I've played CoD for quite awhile, and honestly wasn't all that impressed with WWII (or Infinite Warfare, to be honest), unfortunately. Maybe I'm just more of
    a Treyarch fan. ;(

    BUT.. since you have an XBox (I don't, I went the PS4 Pro/PSVR route), it just came out as early access for it, and I've been playing it on PC since it was very early access.. I highly recommend PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds. Battle Royale at it's finest, with a few bugs of course.

    I've never craved chicken dinners so much (you'll get it if you look into it - and I have about 13 now). ;)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Accession on Friday, January 05, 2018 23:40:33
    Re: Lootboxes
    By: Accession to Digital Man on Fri Jan 05 2018 10:51 pm

    I play CoD (WWII most recently) for Xbox One and I've never paid for any additional content. Well, maybe I bought DLC maps long ago, but
    not for many years.

    I've played CoD for quite awhile, and honestly wasn't all that impressed with WWII (or Infinite Warfare, to be honest), unfortunately. Maybe I'm just more of
    a Treyarch fan. ;(

    Me too, but it was a gift. Battlefield One plays a lot smoother (at half the price). I can't believe all the pauses and stutters in CoD WWII campaign. But I'm playing it anyway. <shrug> :-)

    digital man

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Digital Man on Saturday, January 06, 2018 09:09:00
    Hello Digital,

    On Fri Jan 05 2018 23:40:32, Digital Man wrote to Accession:

    I've played CoD for quite awhile, and honestly wasn't all that
    impressed with WWII (or Infinite Warfare, to be honest),
    unfortunately. Maybe I'm just more of a Treyarch fan. ;(

    Me too, but it was a gift. Battlefield One plays a lot smoother (at
    half the price). I can't believe all the pauses and stutters in CoD
    WWII campaign. But I'm playing it anyway. <shrug> :-)

    The campaign is awesome so far. I think I'm about halfway through, but haven't touched it since I started getting heavy into PUBG. It's gotta be one of the most addicting games I've ever played.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Accession on Saturday, January 06, 2018 12:19:24
    Re: Lootboxes
    By: Accession to Digital Man on Sat Jan 06 2018 09:09 am

    Hello Digital,

    On Fri Jan 05 2018 23:40:32, Digital Man wrote to Accession:

    I've played CoD for quite awhile, and honestly wasn't all that
    impressed with WWII (or Infinite Warfare, to be honest),
    unfortunately. Maybe I'm just more of a Treyarch fan. ;(

    Me too, but it was a gift. Battlefield One plays a lot smoother (at half the price). I can't believe all the pauses and stutters in CoD WWII campaign. But I'm playing it anyway. <shrug> :-)

    The campaign is awesome so far. I think I'm about halfway through, but haven't touched it since I started getting heavy into PUBG. It's gotta be one of the most addicting games I've ever played.

    PUBG sounds good but still of pre-release quality. You haven't had any stability issues?

    digital man

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Digital Man on Saturday, January 06, 2018 23:36:48
    Hello Digital,

    On Sat Jan 06 2018 12:19:24, Digital Man wrote to Accession:

    PUBG sounds good but still of pre-release quality. You haven't had any stability issues?

    Oh sure, plenty. Hell, I think Dec 21, PC is now on v1.0 (uhh, release if you want to call it that), and there's still quirks and bugs, but it's playable. I don't know how well it's doing on XBox as the moment, though. Last I saw on twitter XBox users were complaining more than PC users. ;)

    At the moment I think there's like 3 million (concurrent) players or something like that on PC, and on the top 3 list for biggest multiplayer games on Steam. I must say, even with the quirks it was only 30 bucks and well worth it, since I've played it plenty.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to BIGBANGNET on Thursday, January 18, 2018 11:34:00
    BIGBANGNET wrote to DOVE-NET.GENERAL <=-


    First - I bought BF2 because I'm a Star Wars fan, but I refuse
    to spend 'real money' for perks and such. Yeah, I get pounced
    pretty regularly if I play multiplayer, but eventually I will
    unlock stuff, and I'm 50 years old and not good at those games
    anyway - LOL I do love the single player story though, and
    hope they expand that content! And the multiplayer stuff I
    play is usually starfighter based, and I do pretty good with
    it even without extra perks. :-)

    In my opinion, they should remove the whole lootbox system and make it illegal for companies to use it in games. My reason behind it is very simple, a lot of people are stupid and weak minded. A lot are just weak when they are in front of a situation which will give a reward based on your task you do. Just to be clear search on Google for the Skinner box effect". Its a damn fucking shady method that game developers uses
    against gamers. Its an old thing...its not new. Its related to the
    human behavior and the results can be really devastating when used
    against a weak minded person... like gamers unfortunately.

    I agree that it's not new and that it preys on the weak, but at the
    same time it's not illegal now and I don't know that it should be.
    It's capitolism, and I don't agree with it, but those that do?

    What I'm surprised to find out is that theres almost no complains in
    the general public or some kind of outcry (like BF2) for GTA:Online. Everything is there. Of course its not lootboxes but the whole game is based on microtransaction. Rockstar admitted to not even make single player content or even barely any multiplayer online content because
    its not making them enough cash or profit.

    Look at their patches, all of them contains items which you have to
    spend credits. After a patch is out, they get a discount on their
    "shark cards" which you can spend real money to get in game credits...

    I've been playing GTA for a long time - never spent a DIME on Shark
    Cards. No, I've not been able to buy just anything I want, but with
    enough grinding you can make all the money you want. If someone has
    the coin and wants to take a shortcut, that's their choice. I only
    wish there was a way to sell stuff that I have 'bought' to other
    players so I could grind and get and then sell cheaper than the
    game does. ;-)




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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to JAGOSSEL on Thursday, January 18, 2018 11:38:00
    JAGOSSEL wrote to BIGBANGNET <=-

    I agree, I can do without the microtransactions. I only want to pay for
    it once and be done with it. With games, I expect to have the full
    thing after it's been paid for. I do make an exception with Microsoft Office 360 (latest version of Microsoft Office, up to 5 users, and 1TB
    of cloud storage per user [worth it]) and Adobe Photoshop (kind of the same thing, but with only 20GB and one user). I guess that's where I
    make an exception: if I can get some extra benefit when I make constant payments and getting a service, then I would. If it is just to make it through the game and I don't get any extra benefit, then I can get entertainment else where.

    Just to add to the discussion, what do you think of a model where
    you are paying a fee every month? Sure, Facebook games are 'free'
    and so is Facebook, but what about XBOX Gold for 9.99 a month? I
    personally see it like my Netflix or Hulu subscription (I don't
    have cable or satillite).

    Also - I have a Patreon where I host games. I always have a
    'free' game going and have about 20 people "in line" waiting
    for their turn, but then I also have a list of people that
    subscribe via Patreon. They get 'preferred seating' in that
    the 2nd game is always full of them. They are not getting
    anything extra in the game, but they get to play EVERY time
    a new game starts up.

    Oh - the game is Car Wars - an old tabletop from the 80's. I
    ran PBEM games of it for a long time - now doing them via Slack.
    The Patreon is http://www.patreon.com/madhat if you're interested.
    :-)





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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to ACCESSION on Thursday, January 18, 2018 11:40:00
    ACCESSION wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

    Lately I haven't been gaming as much as I used to.. I hadn't heard
    about this lootbox issue.

    You haven't been gaming much for awhile then. Call of Duty has had this
    in place for the past 2-3 years. Just making gamers spend more money
    with in-game purchases than the initial purchase of the game, really. Quite comparable to free Google Play or Apple Store games (with in-game purchses), except you still have to pay $60 for these PC and/or console games, then have in-game purchases on top of that.

    But you don't HAVE to buy or spend more... And I only paid 39 for
    Battlefront 2 and I think I paid 19 for GTA (yeah, it was already
    old by the time I got in).




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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to JIMMY ANDERSON on Friday, January 19, 2018 09:27:45
    Re: Re: Lootboxes
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to JAGOSSEL on Thu Jan 18 2018 11:38 am

    and so is Facebook, but what about XBOX Gold for 9.99 a month? I
    personally see it like my Netflix or Hulu subscription (I don't
    have cable or satillite).

    I play games in fits and starts, as opposed to Netflix, which I watch a couple of times a week. Nothing pisses me off more than paying for a subscription I'm not using, and so my Xbox goes mostly unused.

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, January 19, 2018 13:36:15
    Re: Re: Lootboxes
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to JIMMY ANDERSON on Fri Jan 19 2018 09:27 am

    Re: Re: Lootboxes
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to JAGOSSEL on Thu Jan 18 2018 11:38 am

    and so is Facebook, but what about XBOX Gold for 9.99 a month? I personally see it like my Netflix or Hulu subscription (I don't
    have cable or satillite).

    I play games in fits and starts, as opposed to Netflix, which I watch a couple of times a week. Nothing pisses me off more than paying for a subscription I'm not using, and so my Xbox goes mostly unused.

    You don't subscribe to Xbox Live? :-)

    digital man

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  • From Daryl Stout@VERT/TBOLT to JIMMY ANDERSON on Friday, January 19, 2018 18:16:00
    Jimmy,

    ... OF COURSE I'm on topic! (Which conference is this?)

    Tagline taken under advisement. <G>

    Daryl

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