I decided to write a little article on why it seems there are so few
women in the linux/it world.
Women in Linux, why so few? http://dennygoot.blogspot.com/2014/10/women-in-linux-why-so-few.html
So what do you fine people think?
Re: Women in Linux
By: Hylian to All on Mon Oct 13 2014 11:53:55
I decided to write a little article on why it seems there are so few women in the linux/it world.
Women in Linux, why so few? http://dennygoot.blogspot.com/2014/10/women-in-linux-why-so-few.html
So what do you fine people think?
I've often wondered about this myself. The most logical thing I can think of is that it's simply cultural. The reason I say that is because there
are other countries, such as India, who are turning out a vast number of engineers (including software engineers and other computer-related engineers), many of which are women. I work at a large tech company, and what I've observed is that there are women engineers there, but few of them seem to be from the US. Most of the women engineers there are from
countries such as India, China, and other parts of Asia. I think there are a couple factors in the US that make women choose not to go into an IT/engineering field:
- There are so many men going into IT fields that women might feel
isolated, thus making it a self-perpetuating cycle
- There is (IMO) an image (maybe a sterotype?) of women as having more social, nurturing traits, so women might feel some social pressure to go into fields where those traits apply more aptly. I think IT fields still have a slightly nerdy image, where people who work in IT are
stereotypically introverted, and women might not want to risk having that stereotype put on them.
While thinking about this recently, I was curious why there seem to be so many engineers from India working in various IT fields. I found some
things online that say that India has a strong engineering culture, and
many students in India feel pressured by their parents and society to go into an engineering or medical field - So much so that India is starting to significantly lack workers going into other needed fields. A couple articles I found (the first link has been shortened to easily fit into less than 80 characters): http://bit.ly/1vpkvaR http://thenextweb.com/in/2011/05/08/why-there-so-many-engineers-in-india/
Nightfox
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- There is (IMO) an image (maybe a sterotype?) of women as having more socia nurturing traits, so women might feel some social pressure to go into fields where those traits apply more aptly. I think IT fields still have a slightl nerdy image, where people who work in IT are stereotypically introverted, an women might not want to risk having that stereotype put on them.I've been a woman in engineering most of my professional life. I can assure you that I am not alone, although the field is largely male dominated. I can't speak for IT that much, though. Most of my exposure to it is in the support side which seems to be more technician than professional in nature.
I decided to write a little article on why it seems there are so few women in the linux/it world.
Women in Linux, why so few?
So what do you fine people think?
I've often wondered about this myself. The most logical thing I can think of is that it's simply cultural. The reason I say that is because there
You are very right, Nightfox. I dug up direct evidence that a big portion
of it is stereotyped responses.
The advertising industry is to blame for a large portion of that, as I brought out in my article.
I've been a woman in engineering most of my professional life. I can assure you that I am not alone, although the field is largely male dominated. I ca speak for IT that much, though. Most of my exposure to it is in the support side which seems to be more technician than professional in nature.
Re: Women in Linux
By: Crystal Chandelier to Nightfox on Tue Oct 14 2014 09:56:00
I've been a woman in engineering mostof my professional life. I can as you that I am not alone, although the field is largely male dominated. speakfor IT that much, though. Most of my exposure to it is in the sup side which seems to be more technician than professional in nature.
I'm pretty sure that it exists powerfully in IT, as well. I haven't worked in the industry in a major area yet, so I haven't had a relative sample, but I've got friends in Portland that I know well enough to know that their fields as software developers, devops, and sysadmins, are usually above 85% male. I've heard a few of them mentioning that they think it'smore because of the way the personalities [of most of the
males] attracted to IT are really sexist. From what I saw where Ilast worked professionally (in North Dakota), it holds true, though it's a
very small sample, as I mentioned.
I'm pretty sure that it exists powerfully in IT, as well. I haven't wor in the industry in a major area yet, so I haven't had a relative sample, but I've got friends in Portland that I know well enough to know that their fiel as software developers, devops, and sysadmins, are usually above 85% male. I've heard a few of them mentioning that they think it's more because of the way the personalities [of most of the males] attracted to IT are really sexi
From what I saw where I last worked professionally (in North Dakota), it holds true, though it's a very small sample, as I mentioned.
I've worked in the IT field for 20 years. The boss for my first IT job was woman. My boss now is a woman. I've had women as bosses for half my IT career. Each of those women started as a techie, and moved up to managment roles. In my position now, of my 5-person group, 3 of them are women. They are also the ones that are just about to retire, so they've been in the field, for this company for a long time too.
Re: Re: Women in Linux
By: Gryphon to Khelair on Wed Oct 15 2014 10:23:00
I've worked in the IT field for 20 years. The boss for my first IT job woman. My boss now is a woman. I've had women as bosses for half my I career. Each of those women started as a techie, and moved up to manag roles. In my position now, of my 5-person group, 3 of them are women. are also the ones that are just about to retire, so they've been in the field, for this company for a long timetoo.
That's pretty awesome. I'm glad that the bits I've heard about have been misrepresenting the whole, if that holds true throughout. I'd much rather work in a place that has something closer to an average
breakdown, to keep the alpha-nerd testosterone fueled chest-thumping to
a minimum, if nothing else.
I've worked in the IT field for 20 years. The boss for my first IT job was
a woman. My boss now is a woman. I've had women as bosses for half my IT career. Each of those women started as a techie, and moved up to managment roles. In my position now, of my 5-person group, 3 of them are women. They are also the ones that are just about to retire, so they've been in the field, for this company for a long time too.
It does. I think your 85% figure is probably correct, but when I first started out, my employer was hiring math majors for training as programmers. After a while, they sought out music majors because it seemed to be a better fit. In any case, that resulted in a larger percentage of women in programming.
I also forgot to mention that my daughter is an electrical-computer engineer working in engineering but she also has a law degree.
I've often wondered about this myself. The most logical thing I can think of is that it's simply cultural. The reason I say that is because there are other countries, such as India, who are turning out a vast number of engineers (including software engineers and other computer-related engineers), many of which are women. I work at a large tech company, and what I've observed is that there are women engineers there, but few of them seem to be from the US. Most of the women engineers there are from
Interestingly enough, the one woman that I know here in Portland, now, who into Programming, broke into it from an unrelated field, as well. I think t anything that breaks up the status quo is a good idea. She's good at what s does, too. Male dominated areas, as far as I've seen, descend into alpha-ma chest thumping crap waaaaaay too predictably, a lot like the military and government, if I may be so bold.
I also forgot to mention that my daughter is an electrical-computer engineer working in engineering but she also has a law degree.
God that's awesome. Electrical engineering on its own is utterly amazing. Law on top of it. Kudos. Makes me wish I were not such a mere mortal. ;)
I work in male dominated areas. I guess most engineers do, but I have noticed changes over the years. Part of it might be my aging, but I rarely get confused with support staff anymore. Even though I work for a defense contractor, there are many highly placed women. The stigma is not what it used to be.
I have three daughters and she is the youngest but expressed aptitude and interest in science from a very early age. I recall explaining a bit of ballistics to her older daughters (probably around 11 or 12 years old), but they just didn't quite understand. The young one who was probably only 4 or 5 seemed to just naturally understand. She's been that way ever since.
It's amazing how much the gene mixing in each random set and nurturing differences can change things, isn't it? I was expecting a set of aptitudes my son that I've found were unrealistic, but he's got many of his own areas where he wants to pursue and blows me away with his inherent skills. I'm ve much looking forward to seeing him through on his particular talents and goa Only problem right now is that he's a little bit more focused on video games than I feel is healthy... This is a bit hypocritical, coming from me, of course, given my youth. I know what some of the alienation did to me, thoug He never used to focus on them so much, but moving 4 times (uprooting school districts each time, as well) in one year really rocked his world. He wasn' left with much, at least until enough time had passed for him to make new friends. And this, much more urban, setting, is seeing new friends that he do things with added to his circle much more slowly.
We all have a tendancy to find explanations (i.e. excuses). We all have challenges but most things that have a negative influence also have a positive.
Video games hand-eye coordination, concentration, persistence. Moving opening mind to different people, environments, situations such as urban and not-so-urban. I've tried to change behaviour of my children (and husband and mother) but it's rarely effective. I have been able to introduce new interests with only modest success. Nothing is guaranteed but your son will probably break through, muddle through, or squeak through and lead a happy life. Then he can struggle with whatever comes his way when he has children. He might get it then.
That's very true. I just want to make sure that he's got the skills that needs to be able to do well in this overpopulated, cut-throat world that he' going to be growing up in. Being so transient for the past year has kept me from doing as much with him, as far as skill building, as I would like, but finally nailed down some work here, and I'm hoping to be able to get back wi the program again real soon here.The world has always been changing quickly. It's just that the closer we get to the changes, the greater they seem - like looking at anything closeup or with a microscope things are larger. Your son will make the most of what he's exposed to including your mobility. Adaptability is an important skill too.
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