• Episode 5: Windows 10

    From Digital Man@VERT to TechDorks on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 19:22:37
    In this episode, Stephen and I discuss our initial impressions and observations of Microsoft Windows 10 (for desktop PCs).

    http://mp3.techdorks.net/episodes/techdorks-2015-08-11-ep5.mp3

    I also recorded face/screen-capture video of my side of this conversation and put it on YouTube at:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir2yS_EH1H8

    digital man

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 16:00:04
    Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Digital Man to TechDorks on Tue Aug 11 2015 19:22:37

    In this episode, Stephen and I discuss our initial impressions and observations of Microsoft Windows 10 (for desktop PCs).

    http://mp3.techdorks.net/episodes/techdorks-2015-08-11-ep5.mp3

    I also recorded face/screen-capture video of my side of this conversation and put it on YouTube at:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir2yS_EH1H8

    It was interesting to hear your discussion on Windows 10. I upgraded to Windows 10 recently and agree that Microsoft seems to be copying Apple regarding some things. Also I'm not sure why Microsoft keeps moving the settings & things around, but overall I like Windows 10 better than 8.1. I was also using the Classic Shell Start menu in Windows 8.1 on my laptop, but now I'm not sure if I want to use that or stick with the built-in Windows 10 Start menu. I do like the Task View feature in Windows 10, which lets you see your open windows and work with multiple desktops. Task View, to me, also looks very similar to one of the features in Mac OS X.

    I did the upgrade to Windows 10, but I'm debating whether to do a clean install so that I can start fresh. I've noticed that right-clicking on some types of files is still somewhat slow, and if I need to delete some files from Program Files (i.e., after I uninstall something that doesn't fully clean itself), I'm unable to delete from Program Files using Explorer, even when it asks for elevated privileges. I can still use the commmand prompt (as Administrator) to delete such files though.

    Nightfox

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 17:16:57
    Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Wed Aug 12 2015 04:00 pm

    Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Digital Man to TechDorks on Tue Aug 11 2015 19:22:37

    In this episode, Stephen and I discuss our initial impressions and observations of Microsoft Windows 10 (for desktop PCs).

    http://mp3.techdorks.net/episodes/techdorks-2015-08-11-ep5.mp3

    I also recorded face/screen-capture video of my side of this conversation and put it on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir2yS_EH1H8

    It was interesting to hear your discussion on Windows 10. I upgraded to Windows 10 recently and agree that Microsoft seems to be copying Apple regarding some things. Also I'm not sure why Microsoft keeps moving the settings & things around, but overall I like Windows 10 better than 8.1. I was also using the Classic Shell Start menu in Windows 8.1 on my laptop, but now I'm not sure if I want to use that or stick with the built-in Windows 10 Start menu. I do like the Task View feature in Windows 10, which lets you see your open windows and work with multiple desktops. Task View, to me, also looks very similar to one of the features in Mac OS X.

    I agree, I think most of the UI changes are improvements.

    I did the upgrade to Windows 10, but I'm debating whether to do a clean install so that I can start fresh. I've noticed that right-clicking on some types of files is still somewhat slow, and if I need to delete some files from Program Files (i.e., after I uninstall something that doesn't fully clean itself), I'm unable to delete from Program Files using Explorer, even when it asks for elevated privileges. I can still use the commmand prompt (as Administrator) to delete such files though.

    I have the same slow right-clicking on a file issue on my main Win 8.1 system and I'm not sure when it started or what's happening, but it is irritating. Its so hard to tell what behaviors are the result of upgrading Windows (or installing updates) or the installation of 3rd party software (many programs have "shell extensions" which modify the behavior of right-clicking on files, for example). All in all, it seems Microsoft is handling the upgrade of Windows much better than it has in years past where it was just a flat-out bad idea to try to in-place upgrade from XP to Vista (for example).

    digital man

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 19:43:13
    Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed Aug 12 2015 17:16:57

    I did the upgrade to Windows 10, but I'm debating whether to do a
    clean install so that I can start fresh. I've noticed that
    right-clicking on some types of files is still somewhat slow, and if I

    I have the same slow right-clicking on a file issue on my main Win 8.1 system and I'm not sure when it started or what's happening, but it is irritating. Its so hard to tell what behaviors are the result of upgrading Windows (or installing updates) or the installation of 3rd party software (many programs have "shell extensions" which modify the behavior of right-clicking on files, for example).

    I have a feeling it's probably due to installation of 3rd party software. I imagine Windows looks through the registry when you right-click on a file to determine what to include on the right-click menu, and over time I'm sure my registry has grown enough to make right-clicking noticeably slower than it used to be. We've been testing with Windows 10 where I work, and it definitely seems to be fairly fast if you have a fresh install.

    All in all, it seems Microsoft is
    handling the upgrade of Windows much better than it has in years past where it was just a flat-out bad idea to try to in-place upgrade from XP to Vista (for example).

    I agree - I think my Windows 10 upgrade went fairly well on both the systems I upgraded. I have a laptop that I bought last year which had Windows 8.1 on it, and the Windows 10 upgrade went fairly fast on that system and didn't have any problems. I've had my current desktop PC for about 4 years now, with Windows 7, and the upgrade went fairly well there too, although it took much longer. I had to re-install my graphics driver on my desktop and make a registry tweak to fix an issue running Microsoft Money 2007, but otherwise it seems to be working fairly well (other than the slow right-click and file deletion permissions issue).

    Nightfox

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Digital Man on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 20:23:18
    Hello Digital,

    On 12 Aug 15 17:16, Digital Man wrote to Nightfox:

    behavior of right-clicking on files, for example). All in all, it
    seems Microsoft is handling the upgrade of Windows much better than it
    has in years past where it was just a flat-out bad idea to try to
    in-place upgrade from XP to Vista (for example).

    Or installing Vista in general. :)

    Is there an option to grab a full install of Windows 10 rather than upgrading from your current version? If so, I may be inclined to try it, but right now my
    8.1 install is working flawlessly and don't care for headaches.

    Regards,
    Nick

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Accession on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 22:03:21
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Accession to Digital Man on Wed Aug 12 2015 08:23 pm

    Hello Digital,

    On 12 Aug 15 17:16, Digital Man wrote to Nightfox:

    behavior of right-clicking on files, for example). All in all, it
    seems Microsoft is handling the upgrade of Windows much better than it has in years past where it was just a flat-out bad idea to try to in-place upgrade from XP to Vista (for example).

    Or installing Vista in general. :)

    Is there an option to grab a full install of Windows 10 rather than upgrading from your current version?


    Yes, the same media that can be used to upgrade can be used with a fresh install, but I think you'll need your Windows product key in that case: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

    If so, I may be inclined to try it,
    but right now my
    8.1 install is working flawlessly and don't care for headaches.

    Yup, headaches are definitely possible. Even likely.

    digital man

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  • From Android8675@VERT/SHODAN to Accession on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 09:05:39
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Accession to Digital Man on Wed Aug 12 2015 08:23 pm

    Is there an option to grab a full install of Windows 10 rather than upgrading from your current version? If so, I may be inclined to try it, but right now my 8.1 install is working flawlessly and don't care for headaches.

    What's great is the MediaTool program for downloading Win10 can make a bootable USB thumb drive that you can use to upgrade an existing OS or install fresh (you need one of the more modern UEFI compatible motherboards to boot from the thumbdrive) or write to a DVD-R is an option as well.

    I'm actually hooked on Win10, I have 3 systems at home and I just talked my boss into letting me upgrade a bunch of Win7 systems at the office.

    The only issues I ran into were Audio drivers never seem to install correctly. Find Win10 audio drivers before upgrading. Just in case. Same with Video drivers. I had an unsupported (past Win7) Creative Labs X-Fi gamer card, but found on the forums there were some unsupported Win8/10 drivers which worked flawlessly.

    This is espically true for Win7 users. Win8.1 users are probably good to go (not much difference between Win8 and Win10 drivers).

    Backup/Image your hdd first if you're really paranoid.

    I love the start menu and ribbon features of 10, since I never really used 8.1 because I hated the full screen metro, but that option is still available in 10.

    The whole "Free Upgrade" seems highly suspect to me though. After the first year. If I have to reinstall Win10, does that mean I'll have to go buy a copy? MS doesn't give you a key after you've upgraded to Win10, so after the first year any re-installs you need to do means you'll need a Win10 Key. I guess it's a good a time as any to get a new system. Probably their intention. On the other hand does that mean that anyone who got a system with a "Free Win 10" upgrade better hope they don't crash after year 1?

    -A.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Accession on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:48:51
    Is there an option to grab a full install of Windows 10 rather than upgrading from your current version? If so, I may be inclined to try it, but right now my
    8.1 install is working flawlessly and don't care for headaches.

    You can make stand-alone install media, as Digital Man said. I believe you do need your Windows key though - I'm not sure if the Windows 10 keys are different from keys for previous versions of Windows, but I'd guess that they are different. You can easily retrieve your Windows 10 key after upgrading, but I'm not sure if there's an easy way to get your Windows 10 key before you upgrade.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Android8675 on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:54:06
    The only issues I ran into were Audio drivers never seem to install correctly. Find Win10 audio drivers before upgrading. Just in case. Same with Video drivers. I had an unsupported (past Win7) Creative Labs X-Fi gamer card, but found on the forums there were some unsupported Win8/10 drivers which worked flawlessly.

    I have an Asus Xonar Xense audio card in my PC, and it worked without any problems for me after upgrading to Windows 10. I didn't have to re-install the audio driver, and the Asus utility (for choosing your speaker configuration, etc.) still works just fine, too.

    I found that I did have to re-install my video card driver though. I'm using Nvidia, and it seems they have a separate driver for Windows 10.

    The whole "Free Upgrade" seems highly suspect to me though. After the first year. If I have to reinstall Win10, does that mean I'll have to go buy a copy? MS doesn't give you a key after you've upgraded to Win10, so after the first year any re-installs you need to do means you'll need a Win10 Key. I guess it's a good a time as any to get a new system. Probably their intention. On the other hand does that mean that anyone who got a system with a "Free Win 10" upgrade better hope they don't crash after year 1?

    It's actually fairly easy to retrieve your Windows key from your running copy of
    Windows. There is software available that will retrieve your key for you: http ://www.pcworld.com/article/246040/how_to_find_your_windows_or_office_product _key.html

    You can also Google for "retrieve Windows product key" or similar and find other
    such software. Once you retrieve your key, I imagine you could use it to re- install a fresh copy of Windows 10.

    Nightfox

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 16:55:28
    Hello Nightfox,

    On 19 Aug 15 12:48, Nightfox wrote to Accession:

    You can make stand-alone install media, as Digital Man said. I
    believe you do need your Windows key though - I'm not sure if the
    Windows 10 keys are different from keys for previous versions of
    Windows, but I'd guess that they are different. You can easily
    retrieve your Windows 10 key after upgrading, but I'm not sure if
    there's an easy way to get your Windows 10 key before you upgrade.

    My new machine came with Win8.1 preloaded and no sticker. So I'm guessing it's one of the newer ones that has the product key embedded in the BIOS. Eh well, I'm in no rush to upgrade as of yet. I was just wondering if it was possible to
    install a full Win10 package, rather than upgrading.. is all.

    Regards,
    Nick

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Android8675 on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 16:15:33
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Android8675 to Accession on Wed Aug 19 2015 09:05 am

    I'm actually hooked on Win10, I have 3 systems at home and I just talked my boss into letting me upgrade a bunch of Win7 systems at the office.

    After I moved, my Windows 10 desktop is acting up. The Start menu and task bar apps work when I log in, then 5 minutes later stop working. Log out and they work again. I've tried that Powershell patch to re-register things, and tried rebuilding the index. Linux is looking better and better... :)

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Accession on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 17:28:18
    Hello Nightfox,

    On 19 Aug 15 12:48, Nightfox wrote to Accession:

    You can make stand-alone install media, as Digital Man said. I
    believe you do need your Windows key though - I'm not sure if the Windows 10 keys are different from keys for previous versions of Windows, but I'd guess that they are different. You can easily retrieve your Windows 10 key after upgrading, but I'm not sure if there's an easy way to get your Windows 10 key before you upgrade.

    My new machine came with Win8.1 preloaded and no sticker. So I'm guessing it's one of the newer ones that has the product key embedded in the BIOS. Eh well, I'm in no rush to upgrade as of yet. I was just wondering if it was possible to
    install a full Win10 package, rather than upgrading.. is all.

    I see.

    Also, I don't think the Windows product key is stored in the machine's BIOS.. At least, I haven't heard of that before. I imagine Windows probably stores the key in the registry somewhere (or perhaps in a file somewhere).

    Nightfox

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  • From Angrypunk@VERT/MUTINY to Nightfox on Tuesday, August 18, 2015 00:23:32
    Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Nightfox to Accession on Wed Aug 19 2015 05:28 pm

    Also, I don't think the Windows product key is stored in the machine's BIOS. At least, I haven't heard of that before. I imagine Windows probably stores the key in the registry somewhere (or perhaps in a file somewhere).

    Pretty much any PC sold in the last few years has the license key embeded in the UEFI firmware. You can still retrive the key post-install from the registry, but it is infact stored in the EFI (usually).

    --
    AngryPunk

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 22:38:47
    Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Nightfox to Accession on Wed Aug 19 2015 12:48 pm

    Is there an option to grab a full install of Windows 10 rather than upgrading from your current version? If so, I may be inclined to try it, but right now my
    8.1 install is working flawlessly and don't care for headaches.

    You can make stand-alone install media, as Digital Man said. I believe you do need your Windows key though - I'm not sure if the Windows 10 keys are different from keys for previous versions of Windows, but I'd guess that they are different. You can easily retrieve your Windows 10 key after upgrading, but I'm not sure if there's an easy way to get your Windows 10 key before you upgrade.

    If you're upgrading (as I did), you don't need to enter a key.

    digital man

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Digital Man on Thursday, August 20, 2015 02:18:16
    Hello Digital,

    On 19 Aug 15 22:38, Digital Man wrote to Nightfox:

    You can make stand-alone install media, as Digital Man said. I
    believe you do need your Windows key though - I'm not sure if the
    Windows 10 keys are different from keys for previous versions of
    Windows, but I'd guess that they are different. You can easily
    retrieve your Windows 10 key after upgrading, but I'm not sure if
    there's an easy way to get your Windows 10 key before you upgrade.

    If you're upgrading (as I did), you don't need to enter a key.

    Right on. I'd just like to do the full install, rather than upgrade.. seems things can and have been missed in the early release days. I have a legit Win8.1, but I never got a key, it was preinstalled, I have a restore disk, and have no idea how to get my key because there's no sticker on my tower, and I'm sketchy about using 3rd party programs to find out information about my OWN PC.
    lol. *shrug*

    Eh well. I'm completely up to date on this machine, and have had no bugger about any kind of upgrade to Win10.. So I'll leave it at that for now. Still like 11 months left of this free thing.. so may as well let them fix anything that needs fixing before upgrading. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

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  • From Coz@VERT/CEBBS to Accession on Thursday, August 20, 2015 08:58:22
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Accession to Digital Man on Thu Aug 20 2015 02:18 am

    Right on. I'd just like to do the full install, rather than upgrade.. seems things can and have been missed in the early release days. I have a legit Win8.1, but I never got a key, it was preinstalled, I have a restore disk, and have no idea how to get my key because there's no sticker on my tower, and I'm sketchy about using 3rd party programs to find out information about my OWN PC.

    Hi Nick,

    Windows 10 actually stores your activation for your machine online. So, upgrade your Windows 8.1 machine using the upgrade process. You will not require a key. Make sure Windows 10 says it's activated once the installation is complete.

    Then, wipe your machine and do a Windows 10 install from scratch. When you get to the activation part, you'll now have an option to Skip inputting a key (assuming you did the new install on the same hardware you first "upgraded"). Do this, and once Windows 10 is done installing, you should find that it's already activated. Kind of a quiet change behind the scenes, but one that I find pretty helpful for those of us who do new installs on the same hardware every now and then.

    Chris

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Angrypunk on Thursday, August 20, 2015 07:51:32
    Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Angrypunk to Nightfox on Tue Aug 18 2015 00:23:32

    Also, I don't think the Windows product key is stored in the machine's
    BIOS. At least, I haven't heard of that before. I imagine Windows
    probably stores the key in the registry somewhere (or perhaps in a
    file somewhere).

    Pretty much any PC sold in the last few years has the license key embeded in the UEFI firmware. You can still retrive the key post-install from the registry, but it is infact stored in the EFI (usually).

    Interesting. That's something new I didn't know they were doing.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Thursday, August 20, 2015 07:52:52
    Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed Aug 19 2015 22:38:47

    Is there an option to grab a full install of Windows 10 rather than
    upgrading from your current version? If so, I may be inclined to
    try it, but right now my
    8.1 install is working flawlessly and don't care for headaches.

    You can make stand-alone install media, as Digital Man said. I
    believe you do need your Windows key though - I'm not sure if the
    Windows 10 keys are different from keys for previous versions of
    Windows, but I'd guess that they are different. You can easily
    retrieve your Windows 10 key after upgrading, but I'm not sure if
    there's an easy way to get your Windows 10 key before you upgrade.

    If you're upgrading (as I did), you don't need to enter a key.

    That's true. I mentioned the key because Accession said he was interested in creating install media to do a full install rather than upgrading.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Accession on Thursday, August 20, 2015 09:09:58
    and I'm sketchy about using 3rd party programs to find out information about my OWN PC.
    lol. *shrug*

    Yeah, it does seem a little weird that Microsoft doesn't provide their own tool to
    retrieve your serial number. The Windows serial number is stored in the registry,
    although it's not in an easily-readable format (it's in a binary format). Software
    that retrieves the serial number would just have to convert that to text.

    Eh well. I'm completely up to date on this machine, and have had no bugger about any kind of upgrade to Win10.. So I'll leave it at that for now. Still like 11 months left of this free thing.. so may as well let them fix anything that needs fixing before upgrading. :)

    :) Makes sense.
    My laptop came with Windows 8.1, and I was eager to move away from Win8.x though..
    The upgrade from Windows 8.1 to 10 went very smoothly on my laptop, and I've had no
    issues with it on my laptop so far. I'm liking Windows 10 better than 8.1.

    Nightfox

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Sunday, August 23, 2015 16:42:54
    Hello Nightfox,

    On 20 Aug 15 09:09, Nightfox wrote to Accession:

    :) Makes sense.
    My laptop came with Windows 8.1, and I was eager to move away from
    Win8.x though.. The upgrade from Windows 8.1 to 10 went very smoothly
    on my laptop, and I've had no issues with it on my laptop so far. I'm liking Windows 10 better than 8.1.

    At this point the only thing I could see liking better is a better looking start menu. For now I've just been right clicking on my 8.1 start menu and I seem to get by just fine. I haven't had any issues with it as of yet, so I'm in
    no hurry and can watch the progress of Win10 for a bit.

    Regards,
    Nick

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  • From Hustler@VERT/REALITY to Android8675 on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 16:02:01
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Android8675 to Accession on Wed Aug 19 2015 09:05 am

    The whole "Free Upgrade" seems highly suspect to me though. After the first year. If I have to reinstall Win10, does that mean I'll have to go buy a cop MS doesn't give you a key after you've upgraded to Win10, so after the first year any re-installs you need to do means you'll need a Win10 Key. I guess i

    It's not like microsoft to give stuff away. In another 2 years it will probably cost $9.99 per year to keep Windows 10 up to date. We'll just have to wait and see.
    HusTler

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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Hustler on Friday, August 28, 2015 16:37:34
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Hustler to Android8675 on Wed Aug 26 2015 04:02 pm


    It's not like microsoft to give stuff away. In another 2 years it will probably cost $9.99 per year to keep Windows 10 up to date. We'll just have to wait and see.

    well they are there to make money. people arent updating and it's causing problems for everyone, so they are trying a new strategy, i guess.

    also win10 isnt that much different from 8. or even win7

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  • From Hustler@VERT/DMINE to Mro on Saturday, August 29, 2015 14:12:10
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Mro to Hustler on Fri Aug 28 2015 04:37 pm

    It's not like microsoft to give stuff away. In another 2 years it will
    probably cost $9.99 per year to keep Windows 10 up to date. We'll just
    have to wait and see.

    well they are there to make money. people arent updating and it's causing problems for everyone, so they are trying a new strategy, i guess.

    I'm all for companies making money. I'm just dissapointed how Microsoft wants to shove Windows 10 down my throat. It was a pain in the arse to completly remove the Windows 10 upgrade from my machine.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hustler on Saturday, August 29, 2015 12:13:58
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Hustler to Mro on Sat Aug 29 2015 14:12:10

    I'm all for companies making money. I'm just dissapointed how Microsoft wants to shove Windows 10 down my throat. It was a pain in the arse to completly remove the Windows 10 upgrade from my machine.

    I've never seen a version of Windows that has an option to revert to the previous version of Windows.. You can choose to install the upgrade, but it doesn't have a "revert to previous version" option. It's not really any different from what Microsoft has done before. That's why it's always good to make a backup before you upgrade.

    Nightfox

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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Nightfox on Saturday, August 29, 2015 14:41:30
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Nightfox to Hustler on Sat Aug 29 2015 12:13 pm

    I've never seen a version of Windows that has an option to revert to the previous version of Windows.. You can choose to install the upgrade, but it doesn't have a "revert to previous version" option. It's not really any different from what Microsoft has done before. That's why it's always good to make a backup before you upgrade.

    I've seen it every time I did an in-place upgrade... usually in the add/remove software bit there's an option to remove the old OS files.

    In my Windows 10 upgraded system, I can to Settings -> Update & Security -> Recovery -> "Go back to Windows 8.1".

    It does say it's only going to be there for a month though, so it looks like the manually having to remove the old OS files is gone, and it's done automatically now.

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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Hustler on Saturday, August 29, 2015 17:21:39
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Hustler to Mro on Sat Aug 29 2015 02:12 pm

    well they are there to make money. people arent updating and it's causing problems for everyone, so they are trying a new strategy, i guess.

    I'm all for companies making money. I'm just dissapointed how Microsoft wants to shove Windows 10 down my throat. It was a pain in the arse to completly remove the Windows 10 upgrade from my machine.


    well people not upgrading are part of the reasons we have all these botnets attacking people and websites.

    i prefer to keep my updates off until i choose to download, i think other people should do that too. if you do it that way you can decline to install the win10 update. windows 10 does seem like a decent OS, though.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Deuce on Saturday, August 29, 2015 21:46:22
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Deuce to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 2015 14:41:30

    I've never seen a version of Windows that has an option to revert to
    the previous version of Windows.. You can choose to install the
    upgrade, but it doesn't have a "revert to previous version" option.
    It's not really any different from what Microsoft has done before.
    That's why it's always good to make a backup before you upgrade.

    I've seen it every time I did an in-place upgrade... usually in the add/remove software bit there's an option to remove the old OS files.

    In my Windows 10 upgraded system, I can to Settings -> Update & Security
    Recovery -> "Go back to Windows 8.1".

    It does say it's only going to be there for a month though, so it looks like the manually having to remove the old OS files is gone, and it's done automatically now.

    Interesting. This is the first time I've done a Windows upgrade (well, since doing a 3.1 -> Windows 95 upgrade 20 years ago), so I didn't realize that option was there. Thanks for pointing it out.

    Nightfox

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  • From Hustler@VERT/DMINE to Deuce on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 12:49:55
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Deuce to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 2015 02:41 pm

    I've never seen a version of Windows that has an option to revert to
    the previous version of Windows.. You can choose to install the
    upgrade, but it doesn't have a "revert to previous version" option.
    I've seen it every time I did an in-place upgrade... usually in the add/remove software bit there's an option to remove the old OS files.

    So you're saying if I upgrade to Windows 10, I'll have the option to remove it and go back to Windows 7? Could it possibly that simple?


    HusTler

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hustler on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 11:47:17
    I've never seen a version of Windows that has an option to revert to
    the previous version of Windows.. You can choose to install the
    upgrade, but it doesn't have a "revert to previous version" option.

    I've seen it every time I did an in-place upgrade... usually in the add/remove software bit there's an option to remove the old OS files.

    So you're saying if I upgrade to Windows 10, I'll have the option to remove it and go back to Windows 7? Could it possibly that simple?

    I checked, and that option is there. But it said that option would only be available for a month or something..

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Mark Hofmann@VERT/TCP to Hustler on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 12:42:09
    I'm all for companies making money. I'm just dissapointed how Microsoft wants to shove Windows 10 down my throat. It was a pain in the arse to completly remove the Windows 10 upgrade from my machine.

    If a company works so hard to force people to upgrade to something like that, it can't be a good thing.

    - Mark

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mark Hofmann on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 17:10:40
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Mark Hofmann to Hustler on Wed Dec 23 2015 12:42:09

    I'm all for companies making money. I'm just dissapointed how
    Microsoft wants to shove Windows 10 down my throat. It was a pain in
    the arse to completly remove the Windows 10 upgrade from my machine.

    If a company works so hard to force people to upgrade to something like that, it can't be a good thing.

    I suppose there are always different ways to look at things. Another perspective is, if a company has made a newer version of one of their products and they're offering it for free (even for a limited time), then why not? Companies don't often offer new versions for free. Apple has been giving away new versions of OS X for free for a while now (of course, it's designed to
    only work on Apple computers), and perhaps Microsoft wanted to try to make a similar move with Windows.

    I suppose newer isn't always better, but I've been running Windows 10 since it came out and have been fairly happy with it overall. I still like the Windows 7 UI better, but Windows 10 isn't bad.

    Also I don't feel like Microsoft is forcing people to upgrade to Windows 10.. Windows Update did start showing the Windows 10 notifications in earlier version of Windows, but I believe users had to choose to take the upgrade or not. At least that's how it was for me - Windows 10 didn't get installed without my approval.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From spacesst@VERT/SPACESST to Mark Hofmann on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 22:56:14
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Mark Hofmann to Hustler on Wed Dec 23 2015 12:42:09

    I'm all for companies making money. I'm just dissapointed how
    Microsoft wants to shove Windows 10 down my throat. It was a pain in
    the arse to completly remove the Windows 10 upgrade from my machine.

    If a company works so hard to force people to upgrade to something like that, it can't be a good thing.


    Win 10 it's the Worse windows , of all time
    not helping users , bad GUI , Bad Fonction
    i Think they try to control/limit your Life
    it sure i am looking more to MAC

    ... You're too beautiful to ignore. Too much woman. Kirk to Yeoman Rand

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to spacesst on Thursday, December 24, 2015 09:43:40
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: spacesst to Mark Hofmann on Wed Dec 23 2015 22:56:14

    Win 10 it's the Worse windows , of all time
    not helping users , bad GUI , Bad Fonction
    i Think they try to control/limit your Life
    it sure i am looking more to MAC

    I don't think it's that bad.. And one thing I think is funny thing is that Windows 10's Task View looks a lot like Mac OS X's Mission Control. I think the taskbar seems to look/function vaguely like OS X's taskbar, too.
    That said, I occasionally use a Mac at work (for some of our iOS & Mac development projects), and I still somewhat prefer Windows 10 over Mac OS. Mac software often lacks some keyboard shortcuts (although they do make use of many keyboard shortcuts). Also, Apple's software development software (XCode) crashes more often than I'd expect from that type of software.. I do like the fact that OS X is based on a variant of BSD, so all the GNU command-line tools etc. are there.

    Nightfox

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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to spacesst on Friday, December 25, 2015 17:30:40
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: spacesst to Mark Hofmann on Wed Dec 23 2015 10:56 pm

    Win 10 it's the Worse windows , of all time

    Still better than Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.

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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Nightfox on Friday, December 25, 2015 17:31:43
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Nightfox to spacesst on Thu Dec 24 2015 09:43 am

    I do like the fact that OS X is based on a variant of BSD, so all the GNU command-line tools etc. are there.

    Heh, I'm the exact opposite... I hate that despite being based on a BSD variant, it used the GNU tools instead of the BSD ones.

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Deuce on Saturday, December 26, 2015 07:39:25
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Deuce to spacesst on Fri Dec 25 2015 05:30 pm

    Still better than Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.

    Doesn't boot as fast. :)

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Deuce on Saturday, December 26, 2015 07:42:31
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Deuce to Nightfox on Fri Dec 25 2015 05:31 pm

    I do like the fact that OS X is based on a variant of BSD, so all the
    GNU command-line tools etc. are there.

    Heh, I'm the exact opposite... I hate that despite being based on a BSD variant, it used the GNU tools instead of the BSD ones.

    I'm surprised Richard Stallman hasn't started a campaign to call it the GNU/Macintosh system. Always entertaining when an interviewer refers to "Linux" and Stallman drives the interview off the rails explaining that's it's more properly called "GNU/Linux".

    How about "Linux kernel with GNO add-ons?"

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Saturday, December 26, 2015 11:29:12
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Deuce on Sat Dec 26 2015 07:42 am

    How about "Linux kernel with GNO add-ons?"

    "GNO Way!" :-)

    digital man

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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to spacesst on Sunday, December 27, 2015 13:45:42
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: spacesst to Mark Hofmann on Wed Dec 23 2015 10:56 pm

    Win 10 it's the Worse windows , of all time
    not helping users , bad GUI , Bad Fonction
    i Think they try to control/limit your Life

    well, win10 isnt so bad, but there's a few things about it calling home that i'm not happy with. the gui is better than win8, that's for sure


    it sure i am looking more to MAC

    yeah ok.

    lemme show you what my friend said the other day.

    12-26-15 [23:31:54] <*******> man what a win for mac haters
    12-26-15 [23:32:22] <*******> i literally had to update my OS to the new osx in order to use the new apple mouse. it's not supported in yosemite or earlier 12-26-15 [23:32:36] <*******> however, it uses the same bluetooth port the same way the old one did
    12-26-15 [23:32:50] <*******> only difference is that it has a built-in battery vs. using AA batteries
    12-26-15 [23:33:08] <*******> it clicks louder too
    12-26-15 [23:33:15] <mro> GAYYYYYY
    12-26-15 [23:33:25] <*******> so maybe i had to have el capitan to support the louder clicking
    12-26-15 [23:33:46] <*******> the issue is that in order to upgrade the OS i have to take out all of my third party RAM and replace it with my OEM apple ram 12-26-15 [23:33:50] <*******> otherwise the OS won't install
    12-26-15 [23:34:04] <*******> i can do normal updates but not from one version to the next
    12-26-15 [23:34:09] <*******> anyway.. stupid shit
    12-26-15 [23:34:09] <mro> dude fuck that
    12-26-15 [23:34:12] <mro> why you using a mac
    12-26-15 [23:34:15] <*******> but i have a mouse that clicks properly now 12-26-15 [23:34:17] <mro> they are cutting off your balls
    12-26-15 [23:34:20] <*******> :D
    12-26-15 [23:34:26] <*******> maybe i like the tingle
    12-26-15 [23:34:37] <*******> i knew you would like the story
    12-26-15 [23:35:00] <*******> now i have to go turn off all the new features that make it a security nightmare heh
    12-26-15 [23:38:41] <*******> the other thing macs do is even if an os upgrade fails, it leaves it in your boot partition so it keeps rebooting to the installer until you recover from backup

    -+- snip ---

    this is from an intelligent person who has used macs for many years.

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mro on Sunday, December 27, 2015 15:28:41
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Mro to spacesst on Sun Dec 27 2015 13:45:42

    12-26-15 [23:32:50] <*******> only difference is that it has a built-in battery vs. using AA batteries

    Apple seems to like to make things difficult to service when you need to. I'm sure that built-in battery can't be easily replaced. It's probably a rechargeable battery, but what happens when it stops holding a charge? Apple probably expects you to take it to an Apple service specialist who charges a lot to replace the battery, or just replace the mouse.

    Personally I still prefer a mouse with a cable so that I don't have to worry about replacing its batteries. Usually I don't sit so far away from the computer that I wished I had a wireless mouse/keyboard. I think the only real scenario where a wireless mouse & keyboard are useful is with a smart TV, where you'd sit far enough back from it that you wouldn't want a cable between you and the TV.

    It reminds me of some car stereos I've seen that have a remote control.. What's the use of a remote control when the car stereo is right in front of you? Perhaps for passengers in the back seat?

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Monday, December 28, 2015 02:27:50
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Sun Dec 27 2015 03:28 pm

    Personally I still prefer a mouse with a cable so that I don't have to
    worry about replacing its batteries. Usually I don't sit so far away from the computer that I wished I had a wireless mouse/keyboard. I think the


    i had a nice wireless mouse and keyboard combo. i hate it because the batteries would always die when you needed the keyboard or mouse the most.

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  • From Lith@VERT/ASIRTA to Nightfox on Sunday, December 27, 2015 22:38:25

    Apple seems to like to make things difficult to service when you need to. I'm sure that built-in battery can't be easily replaced. It's probably a rechargeable battery, but what happens when it stops holding a charge?
    Apple probably expects you to take it to an Apple service specialist who charges a lot to replace the battery, or just replace the mouse.

    Apple has planned obsolescence built into everything they make. It's how they make those enormous profits :-b

    Lith,

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  • From ZeoNet@VERT/ECBBS to Digital Man on Monday, December 28, 2015 15:28:25
    Re: Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    By: Digital Man to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Dec 26 2015 11:29:12

    "GNO Way!" :-)
    Not sure if I'd rather have it with GNU or GMOs... FSF or Monsanto is a tough choice.

    ---
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  • From tracker1@VERT/TRNTEST to spacesst on Saturday, January 02, 2016 00:49:04
    Win 10 it's the Worse windows , of all time
    not helping users , bad GUI , Bad Fonction
    i Think they try to control/limit your Life
    it sure i am looking more to MAC

    Really, compared to Windows 8, the GUI is much better... imho I liked windows
    7 more, but the rough edges in 7 are better on 10... my only big issue was disabling the stupid web search in two setting locations.

    There's a couple quirks as well.. But overall, I'd rather not have to
    support weird quirks from a windows version from a decade ago, ant the
    browser that came with it.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1(at)gmail.com
    +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From tracker1@VERT/TRNTEST to Poindexter Fortran on Saturday, January 02, 2016 00:55:05
    Still better than Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.

    Doesn't boot as fast. :)

    My windows 10 machine boots up pretty damned fast (5-6 seconds, rarely
    reboot), way faster than WFW3.11 on a mid-range desktop when it was new.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1(at)gmail.com
    +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From tracker1@VERT/TRNTEST to Nightfox on Saturday, January 02, 2016 01:00:22
    Personally I still prefer a mouse with a cable so that I don't have
    to worry about replacing its batteries. Usually I don't sit so far
    away from the computer that I wished I had a wireless mouse/keyboard.
    I think the only real scenario where a wireless mouse & keyboard are
    useful is with a smart TV, where you'd sit far enough back from it
    that you wouldn't want a cable between you and the TV.

    It reminds me of some car stereos I've seen that have a remote
    control.. What's the use of a remote control when the car stereo
    is right in front of you? Perhaps for passengers in the back seat?

    LOL, I use a model-m style clicky keyboard and a logitech wired mouse with my MBP at work... The only annoyance is I flipped ctrl/alt/cmd and I can't install software to flip it around in the terminal (so ctrl is in the right place).

    Same keyboard on my desktop...
    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1(at)gmail.com
    +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
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  • From tracker1@VERT/TRNTEST to Mro on Saturday, January 02, 2016 01:02:25
    i had a nice wireless mouse and keyboard combo. i hate it because the batteries would always die when you needed the keyboard or mouse the most.

    Yeah, never fun when your roommate took the last of the batteries and you
    have to find someplace for batteries at 2am when you're working on a
    deadline.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1(at)gmail.com
    +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
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  • From Ed Vance@VERT/CAPCITY2 to tracker1 on Friday, January 08, 2016 08:33:00
    01-02-16 01:02 tracker1 wrote to Mro about Re: Episode 5: Windows 10
    Howdy! Michael and Mro,

    @MSGID: <56878411.405.dove-ent@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5680F286.970.dove-ent@bbses.info>
    i had a nice wireless mouse and keyboard combo. i hate it because the batteries would always die when you needed the keyboard or mouse the most.

    Yeah, never fun when your roommate took the last of the batteries and
    you have to find someplace for batteries at 2am when you're working on
    a deadline.

    When I got a wireless Mouse I left the PS/2 Mouse connected but put it on
    the top of the computer case if I needed to use it when/if the Mouse battery died.

    I'm glad I did, it helps being able to use a Mouse while I'm replacing a battery in the other one.

    Now returning to Lurking Mode.


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  • From tracker1@VERT/TRNTEST to Ed Vance on Sunday, January 10, 2016 15:01:02
    When I got a wireless Mouse I left the PS/2 Mouse connected but put it
    on
    the top of the computer case if I needed to use it when/if the Mouse
    battery
    died.

    I'm glad I did, it helps being able to use a Mouse while I'm replacing a battery in the other one.

    Now returning to Lurking Mode.

    I just use a corded mouse and keyboard now...

    keyboard: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB40P3A
    mouse: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002B3YCQM

    I'm pretty particular about my input devices... been using unicomp
    keyboards for several years now, switched to the 103-key (Model-M layout
    with windows keys fitted in, without changing the size of the rest) when it
    was available. I don't like their order system, wish they'd just sell
    through Amazon.

    The Logitech mouse is imho the best option today, not my ATF, but close
    enough.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1(at)gmail.com
    +o Roughneck BBS

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