Al wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

Nationally, the other instances, without fail, seemed to involve other things I was told never to do to/with a cop unless I wanted to go to jail or wanted an assisted suicide. I somehow doubt these latest instances were used as teaching moments for anything of the sort.

If you do certain things or behave in a certain way your chances
of being arrested or killed by police increase with those
activities. I don't recommend that.

Exactly. And in *EVERY* *SINGLE* *CASE* of recent nationally
sensationalized incidents where a cop killed somebody, the "victim"
did exactly that. They *ALL* did certain things or behaved in a certain
way which resulted in the police action.

What I am talking about is the bad behaviour of police that can
end with injury or death of people who did not deserve that.

See above. Perhaps the "victims" had some bad behavior too, which
actually caused the injury/death. Yup.

No knock warrants and suicide by cop are all debatable subjects,
but that is not what I am talking about.

Nobody really knows *WHAT* you're talking about. Including you.



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This is an entirely different thing where someone fired on police when he thoug
t they were intruders in his home when it was in fact police serving a no knock
warrant. These cops were at the wrong address. This is another instance of peop
e being killed without any kind of justification at all.

That actually was how it was initially reported but turned out not to be
true.

(1) they were serving a no-knock, but witnesses in other apartments claimed they did indeed knock and announce.
(2) they were not at the wrong address -- they went to that address on
purpose believing that the ex-girlfriend was "holding" evidence (either drugs, guns, and/or money) for the person that the press originally reported they
were looking for. The "originally reported" person was indeed in custody, but the person they were really looking for was there.

They had reason to believe she was holding as they had "Bonnie and Clyde"
style photos from social media that showed her posing with guns and money.

The new boyfriend shot at, and wounded, one of the cops, causing them to
return fire. One of the cops shot wildly into other dwellings and has
since been charged. Although it has been controversial with members of the community, no other policeman had been charged last I heard.

There is still an active movement to do away with no-knock warrants. In
most cases, I agree they are not warranted.

I can't speak for leftists but there can be times when a cop has to kill or inj
re someone who is a threat to themselves or others. Suicide by cop is another t
tally different thing not related to what I was talking about. It is a real thi
g too, just not what I was saying.

What I am saying is that I was taught shooting at cops = suicide by cop, no matter what. Nowadays, people don't seem to see it like that and, if a cop returns fire, it isn't the original shooters fault.

If you do certain things or behave in a certain way your chances of being arres
ed or killed by police increase with those activities. I don't recommend that.

What I am talking about is the bad behaviour of police that can end with injury
or death of people who did not deserve that.

I am aware of no examples of someone being injured or killed by the police
over this Summer that were not participating in, or were not with someone participating in, some of those "things and behaviors" that can end in "being arrested or killed" that you speak of -- resisting arrest,
brandishing weapons, shooting at cops, etc.


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Group != organized group. That's why people keep talking about
leadership structures. A lot of people claiming to be antifa
don't even seem to be aware of the pre-existing definition I
spoke about which calls for active violence and suppression of
fascism. Nobody's gatekeeping antifa, so anybody can call
themselves antifa. Thus some groups are violent, some groups
aren't. What they aren't is well-organized or some kind of
existential threat to the nation.

And what you are describing is how most terrorist organizations are structured.

Exactly. That way, when you cut off the head you don't kill the snake... because there is no "head."

I am not certain if the people who don't understand that "groups" can be (dis)organized that way really don't understand, or don't want anyone else
to figure it out.

Not to mention that many localized antifa cells define the
current US Govt (including Democrats) as fascist/facism that must be
opposed with violence.

Which explains why the issues in the Pacific NW continued after the
election was over.


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Re: Re: Leftist rioters
By: Arelor to deepthaw on Wed Dec 16 2020 01:20 pm

Re: Re: Leftist rioters
By: deepthaw to Dumas Walker on Tue Dec 15 2020 04:33 pm

The antifa creed of sorts I saw them espousing at the earliest was a basic belief that fascism is real, it's an existential threat, and it can happen here - therefor freedom of speech and nonviolence can be disposed of if the purpose is keeping fasc from taking hold because the risks are too great.

Aka:

We opose fascism. Therefore, we must establish our own brand of fascism and we are justified in establishing our own brand of fascism in order to prevent the rise of fascism.

There is no contradiction in that.

You can't make someone driven by the convictions of their own richeousness see that giving into their base urges is wrong. They are drunk on the power of their thoughts.

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Re: Re: Leftist rioters
By: Tracker1 to deepthaw on Mon Dec 21 2020 06:13 pm

On 12/20/2020 4:38 PM, deepthaw wrote:

Group != organized group. That's why people keep talking about
leadership structures. A lot of people claiming to be antifa
don't even seem to be aware of the pre-existing definition I
spoke about which calls for active violence and suppression of
fascism. Nobody's gatekeeping antifa, so anybody can call
themselves antifa. Thus some groups are violent, some groups
aren't. What they aren't is well-organized or some kind of
existential threat to the nation.

And what you are describing is how most terrorist organizations are structured. Not to mention that many localized antifa cells define the current US Govt (including Democrats) as fascist/facism that must be
opposed with violence.

I honestly think it's easier to think of antifa as a gang. Anyoen can claim membership, but most are posers. Some are in tight nit-groups with extreme views and agendas they act upon. Some are violent.

þ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville þ

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Re: Re: Leftist rioters
By: Vlk-451 to Tracker1 on Mon Dec 28 2020 02:15 am

I honestly think it's easier to think of antifa as a gang. Anyoen can claim membership, but most are posers. Some are in tight nit-groups with extreme views and agendas they act upon. Some are violent.

they hide behind that. just like anonymous and blm does.

there are people calling the shots and dumb people that are 'activists' that
do the dirty work.
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Re: Re: Leftist rioters
By: MRO to Vlk-451 on Sun Dec 27 2020 10:42 pm

Re: Re: Leftist rioters
By: Vlk-451 to Tracker1 on Mon Dec 28 2020 02:15 am

I honestly think it's easier to think of antifa as a gang. Anyoen can claim membership, but most are posers. Some are in tight nit-groups with extreme views and agendas they act upon. Some are violent.

they hide behind that. just like anonymous and blm does.

there are people calling the shots and dumb people that are 'activists' that do the dirty work.

That makes it sound more organized then I really think it is. I seriously think that it's easier to think of it as silos that share an ideology but act individually. So in that aspect much more like terrorists then the traditional idea of a gang, but many gangs work in cells.

Everything is on a need to know basis and it's all about who you know.

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We opose fascism. Therefore, we must establish our own brand of fascism and
we are justified in establishing our own brand of fascism in order to prevent the rise of fascism.

There is no contradiction in that.

You can't make someone driven by the convictions of their own richeousness see
hat giving into their base urges is wrong. They are drunk on the power of thei
thoughts.

This. :)


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